Help..Is it my Cam or just Cheap lenses ?

[SamerJ]

Hello everyone, I got myself a 20D recently after my G6 but there is something about the photos .. they're just not crisp, can hardly reach 60 % of the photo quality taken with my G6 .. Cam needs calibration or is it cuz of the cheep standard lenses ?
I have a couple os lenses .. EFS 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 And EF 90-300mm 1:4.5-5.6 , I'm having the same problem whenever using any of the lenses whatever focal length :(
It's the same case with different ISOs .. This was taken in daylight, was kinda sunny , same problem different light conditions,Indoor photos seems a bit better though

[tommykjensen]

Difficult to say without exif information.

Which lens did You use for this example and what was aperture and shutterspeed?

[kwang0429]

use view EXIF

1/400 sec exposure
F8.0
1/400 shutter speed
ISO 400
200mm

I recommand you to get a 70-200L

[SamerJ]

EXIF info embeded .. here they are anyway :

Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 20D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
DateTime - 2005:03:14 11:34:08
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/400 seconds
FNumber - 8.00
ExposureProgram - Normal program
ISOSpeedRatings - 400
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2005:03:14 11:34:08
DateTimeDigitized - 2005:03:14 11:34:08
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/400 seconds
ApertureValue - F 8.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 200 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3504
ExifImageHeight - 2336
InteroperabilityOffset - 9250
FocalPlaneXResolution - 2886.36
FocalPlaneYResolution - 2885.81
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - Inch
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
SceneCaptureType - Standard

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Normal
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Auto
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - AI Focus
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Full Auto
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - High , +1
Saturation - High , +1
Sharpness - High , +1
ISO Value - 32767 (other)
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
Focal length - 90 - 300 mm (1 mm)
Flash activity - Not fired
Flash details -
Focus mode 2 - Single
White Balance - Auto
Sequence number - 0
Flash bias - 0.00 EV
Subject Distance - 0 mm
Image Type - Canon EOS 20D
Firmware Version - Firmware 1.0.2
Owner Name - unknown 

(

Camera Serial Number - 330115113

Same problem even after updating the firmware to 1.1.0

[lomond]

OK, dont panic.
First of we need a bit more info, such as exposure details, lens, hand held or tripod, is this a crop or is it full frame, have you processed this in any way etc.

[lucasdigital]

Hi SamerJ,

Last week I got the EOS 350D with the 18-55mm kit lens. My first trip out was very disapointing, image quality and sharpness were definitely not what I had hoped.

However, with a few more hours experience I realised that the problem was not the camera, or the lenses but the fact that I was in a way, still trying to use my A80.

Have you not been able to get nicely focused images, even in highly control conditions?
If you fear there is something wrong with your camera, try shooting something on your best lit table-top.

Mk

[SamerJ]

Same when handheld or with a tripod .. this is a crop cuz of size limits, i thought resizing the whole image would make it loose some details .. and no, no processing at all .

[lomond]

I'm guessing it's quite a heavy crop .
I know if I zoom in 100% on my 10D the images are a bit soft pre-processing.
If this is a 100% crop I think you're asking too much of the camera/lens.

BTW are you using any filters on the lens i.e. UV for protection ?

[SamerJ]

thank you guys for trying to help .. lomond: no filters used, for example i'm only 4-5 m away from the subject with focal length at 300mm, that should be enough not to loose any detail i guess

[Hellashot]

The problem might be that you shot it in "full auto". The autofocus points might not have been on your subject. I recommend you avoid using full auto and use P mode as your auto mode. It'll allow you to set your ISO and choose your own AF point (read manual). I had mixed results with full auto mode when I got my Drebel.

[karusel]

I would guess it is the lens...

You should buy the 50mm 1.8 just to be sure. Also it's the lens to have and it costs about a couple of bags of peanuts. ;)

[lomond]

Hellashot may have nailed it.
Switch from full auto and select the centre focus point.

[Citizensmith]

Another difference may be in camera sharpening. The G6 sharpens, and the 20D by default doesn't I believe. The theory being if you bough a 20D you bought it because you want more control over your photos and the level of sharpening used should be up to you.

You can get the 20D to sharpen or you can use Unsharp Mask in whichever graphics program you use.

[SamerJ]

I know it isn't much of a good lens, but i thought it can't be this bad even with such a lens .. I tried different modes, usually i don't shoot auto .. i just uploaded a full size photo as a different example

http://www.fotop.net/SamerJ/SamerJ/IMG_3611


ExposureTime - 1/200 seconds
FNumber - 16
ExposureProgram - Shutter priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 800
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 300 mm
WhiteBalance - Auto
Macro mode - Normal
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Not fired
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - One-Shot
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Manual
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - High , +2
Saturation - High , +1
Sharpness - High , +2
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
Focal length - 90 - 300 mm (1 mm)
Focus mode 2 - Single
White Balance - Auto
Firmware Version - Firmware 1.1.0


thanks for taking the time guys, really appreciated :)

[Simon Spiers]

I would say it's the lens. I have my 20d sharpness turned right up and satuation up one stop. I get great results with this combination.Looks also like the birdie is mainly back lit. Focusing in my opinion is not the problem here,as there is nothing close by for the camera to lock onto.Even if it had locked onto the birds claw the image would have more contrast that this.

[xstrio]

Hello everyone, I got myself a 20D recently after my G6 but there is something about the photos .. they're just not crisp, can hardly reach 60 % of the photo quality taken with my G6 .. Cam needs calibration or is it cuz of the cheep standard lenses ?
I have a couple os lenses .. EFS 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 And EF 90-300mm 1:4.5-5.6 , I'm having the same problem whenever using any of the lenses whatever focal length :(
It's the same case with different ISOs .. This was taken in daylight, was kinda sunny , same problem different light conditions,Indoor photos seems a bit better though

you said you have the same problem with both lens`s so possibly it could be the camera, do you have much experinece with using slr cameras it just looks like the images are out of focus,

[retro]

Silly question, but would the adjustment at the eyepiece being out cause this?

[xstrio]

it could have been that but the photographer used auto focus, the camera dosn`t seem to have focused on anything.

[steibeldj]

I don't think this is a lens issue. The camera acts as if it is on ISO > 3200. All you have is noise on the CMOS. Notice there is really no color depth at all. Unless you had a dark image that you boosted the brightness on with photoshop, I'd say something is wrong with the camera. It seems like the exposure is overblown as well. Almost as if the metering is not working. Did this suddenly occur or is it from the very first photo?

[Belmondo]

By any chance, did you take this through a window?

I'm just fishing here.

[mtndew]

I did notice ISO first one was @ 400 and second one @800 try 100 to 200 just to see have it turns out. Also where is the sun when you took these pictures?

[Bob_A]

By the noise it looks like this was a crop. I took your image, brightened it up a bit, added some contrast and sharpening (with Focus magic) in PS, then filtered the noise using Neat Image and got the attached. Still not great, but IMO a bit better than the original.

[dng]

hey i noticed that on all your settings your iso is set @ 400 and 800. Try decreasing your iso to 100 or 200. Your pic seems to have alot of noise attributed to high iso settings.

[Bob_A]

I know it isn't much of a good lens, but i thought it can't be this bad even with such a lens .. I tried different modes, usually i don't shoot auto .. i just uploaded a full size photo as a different example



Looking at your example and the histogram, this photo seems to be very underexposed and maybe just a bit out of focus. I think the exposure is the bigger problem though. To fix it in PS you have to add both brightness and contrast along with a fair bit of sharpening, resulting in a pretty noisey image. To get rid of the noise you then have to use something like Neat Image or Noise Ninja.

It might just be me, but I found shooting in RAW using parameter set 2 (everything neutral) to be a very good way to get to know my 20D. I usually only fix up the exposure before converting to jpeg, and use PS to improve on contrast, saturation and sharpening. Even in PS I typically leave contrast and saturation alone and only add some USM in PS (300%, 0.3 pixels, 0 levels).


Bob

[Harry Settle]

Hi SamerJ,

Last week I got the EOS 350D with the 18-55mm kit lens. My first trip out was very disapointing, image quality and sharpness were definitely not what I had hoped.

However, with a few more hours experience I realised that the problem was not the camera, or the lenses but the fact that I was in a way, still trying to use my A80.

Have you not been able to get nicely focused images, even in highly control conditions?
If you fear there is something wrong with your camera, try shooting something on your best lit table-top.

Mk

Same problem I had when switching to my 10D from film and toy digicams. I expected magic point and shoot stuff. It takes practice and concentration until you get used to it. I also had a crappy lens.

[Tom W]

I don't think this is a lens issue. The camera acts as if it is on ISO > 3200. All you have is noise on the CMOS. Notice there is really no color depth at all. Unless you had a dark image that you boosted the brightness on with photoshop, I'd say something is wrong with the camera. It seems like the exposure is overblown as well. Almost as if the metering is not working. Did this suddenly occur or is it from the very first photo?

I agree - that second image a couple of posts back shows a very large amount of noise. Either the image was very dark and was boosted in PS, or there is a camera problem.

[SamerJ]

thanks everyone for the help .

belmondo : yes i was shooting through a window, from the inside while window is open .. I think as many of you guys suggested, it might be noise caused by high ISO (unusuall).

I noticed in EXIF info in the Maker Note a different ISO reading .. so it is the camera, right ?

indoor photos are much better, but outside ones are way too bad


Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 20D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
DateTime - 2005:03:24 09:53:15
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/200 seconds
FNumber - 16
ExposureProgram - Shutter priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 800
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2005:03:24 09:53:15
DateTimeDigitized - 2005:03:24 09:53:15
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/200 seconds
ApertureValue - F 16.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 300 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3504
ExifImageHeight - 2336
InteroperabilityOffset - 9258
FocalPlaneXResolution - 3959.32
FocalPlaneYResolution - 3959.32
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - Inch
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
SceneCaptureType - Standard

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Normal
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Not fired
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - One-Shot
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Manual
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - High , +2
Saturation - High , +1
Sharpness - High , +2
ISO Value - 32767 (other)
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Tv-priority
Focal length - 90 - 300 mm (1 mm)
Flash activity - Not fired
Flash details -
Focus mode 2 - Single
White Balance - Auto
Sequence number - 0
Flash bias - 0.00 EV
Subject Distance - 0 mm
Image Type - Canon EOS 20D
Firmware Version - Firmware 1.1.0

[wcstory]

When I first got my 20d I must of goofed with one of the settings while learning the functions. Picture quality in less than perfect light conditions was awful. I reset all functions to factory default and cured the problem.

Shooting throught glass - shut off the AF and try manual. I shoot pictures of Koi I have in glass tanks or in the pond and found this helps.

Bill

[steibeldj]

So....what was it after all? Are you back to normal? Don't leave us hanging.

[SamerJ]

sorry for the late reply..thanks guys the help .

steibeldj : i couldn't figure what the problem was..all i could tell that it seems high noise as many of you guys suggested , I tried same shots with same lens with lower ISOs and they turned out relatively much better .


http://images3.fotop.net/albums3/SamerJ/SamerJ/bird3.jpg