My Speculation on the EOS 7D/60D and PMA in general

[KenjiS]

Ok..I just came up with this brainstorm moments ago..I decided to make a new thread because I'm compiling my thoughts here and I'm planning it to be fairly long..

Basically, I just thought of something, Rumors say Canon is going to consolodate the 1D line and ditch the 1.3x crop, which makes sense really...1.3x shooters don't get mad, I know why the 1D exists and thats why I just came up with this thought..

What if the 7D is not really a replacement for the 50D? What if its for a new market segment entirely? I'm thinking and pointing to the Nikon D300 and its replacement [D400?]

Heres my thinking specs on the 7D ATM:

-Same sensor as the 50D, or an improved 15mp one..
-11-15 point Cross-type AF System, New design entirely
-8-10 FPS shooting
-Fully weather-sealed body
-98% or 100% Viewfinder, with a eyecup
-Beefed up shutter unit with a 200k life cycle or so [Somewhere between the consumer and the 1D series]
-Improved DIGIC V or DIGIC VI processor [Obviously needed for this]
-Larger capacity computerized batteries [Obviously needed for the 8FPS and etc]
-Slightly revised command interface including a larger joystick controller [I think Canon can easilly put a slightly larger D-pad on there, or at least a more usable joystick] and Ergonomics a bit closer to the 5D than the xxDs
-Video capability..I guess..

Now, if such a camera were released, it has roughly 80% of the capability of the 1D Mark III, at a price thats lower, if Canon does in fact pull the plug on the 1.3x crop, this camera would most likely fit the need perfectly as well as go against Nikon's D300...

And I could be wrong, but a 1.6x crop factor would -benefit- most users of the 1.3x crop cameras while simplifying Canon's lineup, would it not? [To my knowledge, the point of the 1D is fast action sports and etc, the 1.3x crop removes the need for teleconverters for a lot of those shooters..] and the slightly smaller sensor coupled with modern technology should keep image quality equal or superior at a lower cost...

The name 7D obviously fits for such a camera, its professional-level, so its a single digit, odd number, followed with a D

Now then, That means the 50D drops and goes against the D90, a good match really, the 50D trounces the D90 in everything but video mode

this basically gives Canon and Nikon par with their lineups...

This also goes with the scattered rumors of new lenses, I expect 3-4 lenses at PMA [Sony is bringing 3, Nikon already brought 1 and probubly more at PMA itself..]

-An update to a classic affordable everyman lens [50mm f/1.8 III, 50mm f/1.4 II or 85 f/1.8 II?]

-Something EF-S [Perhaps a 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 IS?]

-Something or two with a red ring [Update to the 100-400L and one of the big primes? Both would suit the nature of this camera]

Beyond that I expect new rebels, I'm curious to see if Canon will cave and give them adjustable screens or not [or if Nikon will do this first!]

The 7D I don't expect at PMA to be truthful, but I do expect it this year..a red flag would be improved L telephotos and a new flash unit [With AF Assist that would say, cover the new focus points] an even bigger red flag would be the discontinuation or neglect of the 1D Mark III....

And if one of the Rebels gains the improved 9-point AF from the 40D/50D I'd say somethings up...

[George.ML]

Canon will not merge the 1-series into a single body for now.
Can't predict what will happen when a 24mp/12fps/ISO-51200 1D-xxx goes on sale for $4K but until then there will be two 1-series bodies.

Other than that, I agree with your points. Once the 1.3x sensor is gone, it will be much easier for Canon to add a D300-type of body to their lineup.
Canon have quietly split the xxD line already - into the 40D and the 50D.
But since the 50D is not that different from the 40D, its initial high price could not be sustained.
I’m betting that Canon are not happy with this development and it's only a matter of time before we see a higher priced 1.6x body – which will have to come with more pro features if Canon want to sell it at a premium price.

[KenjiS]

Canon will not merge the 1-series into a single body for now.
Can't predict what will happen when a 24mp/12fps/ISO-51200 1D-xxx goes on sale for $4K but until then there will be two 1-series bodies.

Other than that, I agree with your points. Once the 1.3x sensor is gone, it will be much easier for Canon to add a D300-type of body to their lineup.
Canon have quietly split the xxD line already - into the 40D and the 50D.
But since the 50D is not that different from the 40D, its initial high price could not be sustained.
I’m betting that Canon are not happy with this development and it's only a matter of time before we see a higher priced 1.6x body – which will have to come with more pro features if Canon want to sell it at a premium price.

Even if they keep the 1.3x crop, there would be a spot for my proposed EOS-7D, I do not see the 1D series clientele necessarily dropping the 1D for it..

Maybe just give the 1D better specs so it still trumps it, 12 FPS shooting, 18 megapixels and an upgraded 45-point AF system....

The 7D is simply for someone who likes the 1.6x crop factor for their work like myself

[gary88]

I just want a full frame camera around 16mp with weathersealing and AF at least as good as the 40/50D priced in between the 5D Mark II and 50D.

[Nistelrooydude]

It's really hard to say at this point. I wouldn't be too suprised if it was a different line than the xxD but I also wouldn't be surpised if it wasn't. I just hope it's not to good to give up my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS dreams.

[tkbslc]

The rumors I've heard say new 13 point AF, 8fps, 1080P vid and weather sealing. And still 15MP.

All crap I don't need or want to pay for, so all I am hoping for is that the new 60D makes the 40D drop down to $600 or so......

[KenjiS]

The rumors I've heard say new 13 point AF, 8fps, 1080P vid and weather sealing. And still 15MP.

All crap I don't need or want to pay for, so all I am hoping for is that the new 60D makes the 40D drop down to $600 or so......

Eh i just want better AF..thats all i could really care about [But im going to try a 50D tomarrow because i want to see if that fixes that "complaint" of mine, I know my 30D has a pretty bad AF system compared to them]

[hk300]

I think a 7D is very well possible, but i think/hope for a modest upgrade for the 5D, so:
- Fullframe
- 15mp
- Live View
- Similar body as 5D

all other features will be a plus.
Price ... between 40D and 5D mark2 (in fact a little more than the for sale prices of the 5D, similar to the D300 prices)

[alt4852]

canon and nikon rarely have directly competing models in their lineup.

XS<D60<XSi<D90<50D<D300<5D2<D700<1D3<D3<1Ds3/D3x

not exact by any means, but if you look closely, they don't exactly overlap much in terms of features or price point.

(yea, don't flame the progression that i typed. it's a rough estimate more than anything else and there are plenty of arguable matchups.)

[tkbslc]

I think a 7D is very well possible, but i think/hope for a modest upgrade for the 5D, so:
- Fullframe
- 15mp
- Live View
- Similar body as 5D

all other features will be a plus.
Price ... between 40D and 5D mark2 (in fact a little more than the for sale prices of the 5D, similar to the D300 prices)

I think the next camera will be a high performing crop as was mentioned above. But I certainly think Canon needs to come out with a budget FF camera before someone else does. Basically they could re-release the 5D under a new name with a little better AF and CPU and price it at $1500.

[KenjiS]

I think the next camera will be a high performing crop as was mentioned above. But I certainly think Canon needs to come out with a budget FF camera before someone else does. Basically they could re-release the 5D under a new name with a little better AF and CPU and price it at $1500.

Theres certainly market for both

I prefer 1.6 crop for a lot of things [and im not alone] because of the speed and the crop factor when you're working with telephotos

But for wide and low light, NOHING beats a 5D

[hk300]

I think the next camera will be a high performing crop as was mentioned above. But I certainly think Canon needs to come out with a budget FF camera before someone else does. Basically they could re-release the 5D under a new name with a little better AF and CPU and price it at $1500.

I would consider something like this 7D ... as an upgrade to my 40D. I think the crop CMOS is being pushed to its limits (too high density) and will require a breakthrough in CMOS design to be significantly better than the current 40D.

I do some portrait photography and was surprised how well the old 5D performs compared to a 40D, especially the Bokeh.

[jacobsen1]

do I want the one series to merge? Hell yes! Do I see it happening? Nope.

Think of this, ~24mp FF @ 5fps. ~12mp mode @ 10fps. But here's the key, use sRAW to make a 12mp FF image AS WELL AS cRAW to crop the 24mp down to 12mp giving you the best of both worlds... a 12mp full frame sports body as well as a 12mp cropped sports body with a 24mp full frame slower body. Also offer other sRAWs (using the full frame) and cRAW options as well, but the primary version should be 12mp and maybe a 16mp option. 6mp would also be nice in both FF, wickedly cropped mode (it'd be more than 1.6) and maybe a medium cropped mode, still 6mp but like 1.3 cropped? 8mp also seems like a nice round number.

These options DO exist. Canon already offers sRAWs, so that's easy, just give sRAW to the 1Dsiii and I bet it'd work (maybe it'd need the AF brain of the non s and the shutter/mirror, but stuffing the 'S's sensor in the non S would certainly work. Nikon has shown with the D3 and D700 that cropped modes work, so combine both camps ideas and you'd have my dream body.

I don't like the 1 series bulk, so I'd love to see a revisit to the 1V where the grip is optional. a smaller (5D like) 1 series with cRAW and sRAW with ~20m for the slow speeds and ~10mp for the high speed (if the grip is needed for the high speeds I'm fine with that). That's my dream camera. Until then it's a tale of two mark IIs for me, 5 and 1 options.

[MLphoto]

So this 7D is to compete with the D300/D400...

I think that's pointless somewhat, why not just upgrade the 60D to full a better sensor with the right amount of MP... canon really needs to step up because i am sick of waiting for things that nikon has already... i will switch if i get impatient.

[wernersl]

I just want a full frame camera around 16mp with weathersealing and AF at least as good as the 40/50D priced in between the 5D Mark II and 50D.

see: used 1DS MK II

[DarthVader]

I want a version of 1D Mark III cost $1,000 :) or less I switch to Canon *LOL*

[DarthVader]

Why I have two posts huh ? :)

[foxesamu]

The name 7D obviously fits for such a camera, its professional-level, so its a single digit, odd number, followed with a D

Now then, That means the 50D drops and goes against the D90, a good match really, the 50D trounces the D90 in everything but video mode

this basically gives Canon and Nikon par with their lineups...
Eh, I don't think Canikon will ever produce cameras that compete directly in the mid-range. They have the XS/XSi vs. D40/D60, which is fairly direct, as well as the 5D2 vs. D700 (although a D700X would be a better match) and the pro bodies. But in the mid range it goes 40D = D90 > 50D > D300. And I think this is purposeful. Nobody wants a monopoly!

Otherwise... 50D certainly does not "trounce" D90 in "everything but video mode." It trounces it in build, but in terms of IQ they are fairly equal, if not having a slight nudge towards the D90 because of its excellent high ISO performance (where the 50D doesn't really improve upon the 40D).

[Nistelrooydude]

Eh, I don't think Canikon will ever produce cameras that compete directly in the mid-range. They have the XS/XSi vs. D40/D60, which is fairly direct, as well as the 5D2 vs. D700 (although a D700X would be a better match) and the pro bodies. But in the mid range it goes 40D = D90 > 50D > D300. And I think this is purposeful. Nobody wants a monopoly!

Otherwise... 50D certainly does not "trounce" D90 in "everything but video mode." It trounces it in build, but in terms of IQ they are fairly equal, if not having a slight nudge towards the D90 because of its excellent high ISO performance (where the 50D doesn't really improve upon the 40D).

I think you may need to go back to 6th grade math. Remember...the alligator eats the bigger one. ;)

[foxesamu]

I think you may need to go back to 6th grade math. Remember...the alligator eats the bigger one. ;)
LMAO. Major typo on my part. I meant to say D90 >>> 50D and D300. :)