College newspaper copyright questions

[mattmacf]

I'm currently a photographer and photo editor for my university's weekly paper and I was wondering what standard usage rights should be for submissions to the paper. Photographers are unpaid and no gear is provided, although as an editor I do receive a modest stipend of $60-70/week to cover time for staff meetings and photo editing (roughly 7-10 hours/week). Obviously I don't do it for the money.

I ask because at there was a disagreement with one of the athletics directors a while back regarding usage of my photos in their media guide. In response to this, there were contracts written up and distributed recently for all contributors to the paper (writers, photogs, editors, etc.) It read (paraphrasing from memory):
1. All materials produced by students on assignment for or submitted voluntarily to The School Paper become the property of The School Paper. They may be used for any reason by The School Paper without the consent of or compensation to the student.

2. The University ultimately owns all such materials. They can be used by any University department in its official duties. The student may use these materials for other uses only if permission is granted by The University.

3. These terms apply to anything the student ever submits indefinitely.Prior to this, I do not believe there was any written agreement and I was under the assumption that my photos were strictly for the paper's editorial use. I was entirely unconcerned with the legal ramifications. I obviously haven't signed the contract yet (and almost certainly will not given these terms), although it was suggested that I may no longer be working or shooting for the paper anymore if I do not.

I believe I'll be discussing this with the faculty advisor, perhaps along with the lawyer who drafted the contract and I was wondering what kind of agreement is customary in this type of relationship. I'm assuming I'd have to grant a license to the university to use my photos in some regard although I'm not sure what I should be looking for. I obviously wouldn't mind licensing them for noncommerical use (perhaps for academic catalogs or student organizational use) but I'd rather not grant commercial use. I'm certainly not signing my rights away for a byline in a student newspaper. Perhaps one of the creative commons licenses would suit my needs?

I'd also like to keep my job and continue to shoot for the paper but at what cost, I'm not sure. Any ideas how I should approach the situation?

[photoguy6405]

If you're a student, how would this differ from interning with a pro for free?

[mattmacf]

If you're a student, how would this differ from interning with a pro for free?
I'm not sure if there's a functional difference, but it just doesn't feel right to me, especially considering the fact that I don't pay a pro thousands of dollars to attend. Either way, I couldn't imagine working for a pro and losing the right to use my own images as I see fit without compensation.

[sandpiper]

Ultimately, the university can do this if they wish. Equally, the photographers can refuse to sign and stop submitting images.

If they choose to sign the contract and continue submitting images, then they know what rights they signed away and should abide by the contract they signed.

Considering that the photographers aren't being paid, it is perhaps a bit heavy-handed for the college to do such a restrictive rights grab. On the other hand, the photographers can use the images 'with permission' and perhaps that permission will generally be freely given, the university simply turning down those rare uses it particularly disapproves of.

If this is unpopular with the photographers and most stop submitting images, the university will have to consider the situation carefully, particularly if the paper is put in danger due to lack of content or 'staff'.

I would chat with the other students who regularly submit images and see what the general opinion is, before meeting with the faculty advisor. If they decide to play hardball and stick to their guns, let them know that you are prepared to give up your position, rather than spend all that time on images you can't use yourself.

I certainly wouldn't submit anything, without payment, if it meant that in doing so I was losing all rights to my own work.

As for the 'standard practice', I don't know. I doubt that there is one, individual universities will probably make their own deals with the photographers over submissions.

[photoguy6405]

I'm not sure if there's a functional difference, but it just doesn't feel right to me, especially considering the fact that I don't pay a pro thousands of dollars to attend. Either way, I couldn't imagine working for a pro and losing the right to use my own images as I see fit without compensation.

Good point about paying to attend.

[mattmacf]

From what I observed, there were pretty much no objections from any of the other writers or photographers. The agreements were handed out during a staff meeting the other day with the stipulations "you need to sign these" and collected unceremoniously at the end.

From what I understand, there really isn't any issue with me doing as I please with my photos, but having it in writing makes any kind of handshake agreement virtually worthless. If I take a picture that someday happens to be incredibly valuable for whatever reason, I'm SOL because I've signed my rights away. I could even be sued for selling my work in the future.

[USMCWayne]

Good questions and good luck in however it turns out.

In the 70's, after I got out of the Marine Corps, I attended Montana State in Bozeman, majoring in still photography.

My last couple years at MSU I was the Managing Editor/Business Manager of the twice weekly student newspaper, The Exponent. I was probably paid a small amount for my time as an editor. I also had unlimited and 24 hour a day use of the newspapers darkroom, a pretty priceless benefit considering all of the photographers trying to schedule time in the school's darkrooms.

While Business Manager I was amazed at how much money we brought in, in the form of advertising revenue. We pretty much had a monopoly as far as our readership, and businesses around town were falling all over themselves to reach those kids and their parents pocketbooks.

As Managing Editor, I proposed a pay structure for photographers and writers. I felt it was only right to put some of our revenues back into improving the quality of the publication, instead of just turning it all back over to the school.

It was a lifetime ago, but my photographers received $2.00 for each photo used. Reporters received 20-cents a column inch for each item printed. If an individual submitted a story with photo(s), they received an additional $2.00.

I'm too dumb to try to figure out what that would be in 2009 dollars, but maybe you (as photo editor) could propose a similar situation to your student council?

[XterraJohn]

When I shot for a student newspaper, I asked them who owned the negatives and if I could use them as I pleased, and they said that I did. When I left, they gave me my negatives to do with as I pleased.

[grego]

I ask because at there was a disagreement with one of the athletics directors a while back regarding usage of my photos in their media guide.

Interesting, because at least at my school there is a separate photography department and the sports departments have to deal with them to get photos. That would be looked down upon if they went to the newspaper for their media guide photos. I guess it depends.

Usually like all newspapers, the photography only has the right to use those photos for their portfolio, and that is pretty much it.

[nphsbuckeye]

Interesting, because at least at my school there is a separate photography department and the sports departments have to deal with them to get photos. That would be looked down upon if they went to the newspaper for their media guide photos. I guess it depends.
Same here - a hundred million dollar budget will do that for you...

Do you mean commercial sales? If so, you might want to check if you can even take part. Media credentials for Big Ten games are that, media credentials. One needs permission from the Big Ten to use anything for commercial use.

[nateut]

This sort of thing was one of the reasons the paper for the University I attended went independent.

[airfrogusmc]

Good questions and good luck in however it turns out.

In the 70's, after I got out of the Marine Corps, I attended Montana State in Bozeman, majoring in still photography.

My last couple years at MSU I was the Managing Editor/Business Manager of the twice weekly student newspaper, The Exponent. I was probably paid a small amount for my time as an editor. I also had unlimited and 24 hour a day use of the newspapers darkroom, a pretty priceless benefit considering all of the photographers trying to schedule time in the school's darkrooms.

While Business Manager I was amazed at how much money we brought in, in the form of advertising revenue. We pretty much had a monopoly as far as our readership, and businesses around town were falling all over themselves to reach those kids and their parents pocketbooks.

As Managing Editor, I proposed a pay structure for photographers and writers. I felt it was only right to put some of our revenues back into improving the quality of the publication, instead of just turning it all back over to the school.

It was a lifetime ago, but my photographers received $2.00 for each photo used. Reporters received 20-cents a column inch for each item printed. If an individual submitted a story with photo(s), they received an additional $2.00.

I'm too dumb to try to figure out what that would be in 2009 dollars, but maybe you (as photo editor) could propose a similar situation to your student council?

Hey Wayne when did you serve and what was your MOS?
S/F
Allen

[USMCWayne]

70-74, 2818, 1972 with 1/9 (The Walking Dead), and my last year and a half with the 1st Marines (Chesty's old unit) in Camp Pendleton.

[advaitin]

Brings back memories of my student days. Pre-computerization, so no way for the school to cadge my work except by copying the halftone.

Quite frankly, the school may be screwing you. The very least that should have happened is getting a permission to use the image. If all you do is up to standard, you should have a copyright notice that details ownership and rights that says no use of material without prior consent, etc.

[airfrogusmc]

70-74, 2818, 1972 with 1/9, and my last year and a half with the 1st Marines (Chesty's old unit) in Camp Pendleton.

Wayne thanks bro for your service in the Corps...
I served with a Sgt Maj that was one of the frozen...

I missed it (nam) by that much. 73-77

6112 CH-46 crewchief.
S/F

[amfoto1]

Back to the OP's questions....

What a great lesson for all those students!

They just got their copyright grabbed!

I would probably have signed it too, when I was in college, not knowing what I was doing. On the other hand, the fact that it wasn't explained properly would make for a field day for a lawyer, if it ever really came to that.

Knowing what I know now, they'd never see anything submitted from me under those terms, and I'd never sign such a document unless there was a six or seven figure check made out to me stapled to it.

[mattmacf]

I would probably have signed it too, when I was in college, not knowing what I was doing. On the other hand, the fact that it wasn't explained properly would make for a field day for a lawyer, if it ever really came to that.

Knowing what I know now, they'd never see anything submitted from me under those terms, and I'd never sign such a document unless there was a six or seven figure check made out to me stapled to it.
From what I gather, the fact that there's a written legal document carries a lot more weight than whether or not it was explained properly. I think calling it a "field day" is disingenuous as it would likely be difficult and costly to have such an agreement thrown out in court.