Question about focusing a 4-months old

[iamdogdog]

Hi all,

I was trying to shoot my 4months old at F2.8 earlier and I realize that I have problem focusing her as she keeps moving while her mommy is already holding her.

I tried to focus on her eye and recompose and take the shoot, but most of the shot her eye and face are not sharp, it would be something else being sharp. I know I can solve this by shooting at a smaller aperture but lets say if I want to keep it F2.8 or even lower, any tips/tricks that I need to know to get a sharp(eyes and face) picture?

Thanks.

Example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3270622751_b5c788dd13_b.jpg

[ibdb]

Have you tried using a focus point other than the center focus point, or letting the camera decide what to focus on? If you're shooting with a small DOF, the focus, recompose, shoot approach is going to give you a lot of error, particularly with a moving subject. The camera will try to guess what you want in focus, but it can't do as well as you can when you select an off center focus point manually.

[MinhThien]

You focus is on the baby shocks! Try to use center focus!

[bobbyz]

You focus is on the baby shocks! Try to use center focus!

Agree, focus on the eyes. Center AF or closest AF point should work fine. I never had any problems with focus/recompose.

[Kara's Mommy]

looks to me like the focus fell on the hand...

try to focus on the eye thats closer to you!

[iamdogdog]

Hi all, thanks for all your replies, believe me or not, I have been using the center point focus and focus on the eyes then recompose, but i realized that when I am shooting at F1.8 and F2.8, because my child is moving back and forth, sometimes the focus are off, thats why sometimes I think shooting at F5.6 is safer but I can't no longer get the bokeh. This is why I am asking the original question to see if there is any better tips/technique to tackle this problem.

[Kara's Mommy]

What's your shutterspeed?

I never shoot babies and kids under 125 and if lighting allows I prefer even higher then that!

[cdifoto]

Focus-recompose sucks. Don't do that. Using a focus point that covers what you want in focus works better. That's why they're there. AI Servo helps sometimes, but usually it's better to skip the bokeh and prioritize focus. Save the bokeh for when she's 2 years old and posing.

[bobbyz]

Hi all, thanks for all your replies, believe me or not, I have been using the center point focus and focus on the eyes then recompose, but i realized that when I am shooting at F1.8 and F2.8, because my child is moving back and forth, sometimes the focus are off, thats why sometimes I think shooting at F5.6 is safer but I can't no longer get the bokeh. This is why I am asking the original question to see if there is any better tips/technique to tackle this problem.

Try to use the AF point closer to the eye then.

[bobbyz]

Focus-recompose sucks. Don't do that.

Too general statement. Lot depends on distance between camera to subject disatnce and where you wanted to focus and where you actually did the focus.

[ibdb]

How about "focus-recompose sucks when dealing with a moving subject." ;)

Seriously though, using off center focus points can go along way towards eliminating the need for focus-recompose, and can also eliminate all the potential risks it entails.

[cdifoto]

Too general statement. Lot depends on distance between camera to subject disatnce and where you wanted to focus and where you actually did the focus.

Yeah. You can sometimes get away with it. But why bother? Don't tell me speed. It takes approximately the same amount of time to focus-recompose as it does to choose a better focus point. Don't tell me precision of the center point either. If you can get away with focus-recompose, you can get away with slight inaccuracy from the outer points.

[TheHoff]

There is no way your baby is moving 8 or 10 inches back and forth while sitting like that. The focus here is clearly on the boots and the woman's knees and not anywhere near the child's face. You have other issues here other than slight baby movement, whether that be your focus/recompose technique or your lens is heavily front-focused.

Do you get sharp photos at 2.8 if you do not recompose? Leave the composition centered with the eyes dead set in the middle AF point, shoot it, and see if the eyes are sharp.

Then repeat the test leaving the eyes in the top 1/3rd of the frame, use the upper AF point, DO NOT recompose, shoot it, and see if it is sharp.

Then repeat recomposing and see if that is the issue.

[cdifoto]

Hoff, have you ever photographed a baby? They can seriously kick, squirm, and buck! I could see her sitting upright over her legs and then jerking back in an instant. It happens. A lot.

[EOS_JD]

Hi all, thanks for all your replies, believe me or not, I have been using the center point focus and focus on the eyes then recompose, but i realized that when I am shooting at F1.8 and F2.8, because my child is moving back and forth, sometimes the focus are off, thats why sometimes I think shooting at F5.6 is safer but I can't no longer get the bokeh. This is why I am asking the original question to see if there is any better tips/technique to tackle this problem.

Focus recompose at large aperture is not very good at all!

You move the camera after you focus and you are completely changing the focal plane.

Use an appropriate focus point (not necessarily the centre)

PS as said above, Your focus is on the knees.... nowhere near the baby - practice focusing and it might help using the back * button as your focus button. Press to focus and release to lock.

[TheHoff]

Hoff, have you ever photographed a baby? They can seriously kick, squirm, and buck! I could see her sitting upright over her legs and then jerking back in an instant. It happens. A lot.

Dude... every day for the past 5 months and 8 days. About 4,000 frames I'd guess. And he MOVES. Never stops.

The focus is on his wife's knees -- was she bucking back and forth as well? :D


bucking baby @ f/2, outer AF point

http://i40.tinypic.com/mjnvc7.jpg

[Big O]

Hoff, have you ever photographed a baby? .


lol ... this should be good

[cdifoto]

Dude... every day for the past 5 months and 8 days. About 4,000 frames I'd guess. And he MOVES. Never stops.

The focus is on his wife's knees -- was she bucking back and forth as well? :D


bucking baby @ f/2, outer AF point

I never said they ALWAYS buck back and forth. My nephews are always on the move as well, but they squirm like mad on someone's lap. That child in your photo isn't even close to "bucking" around. :rolleyes:

Besides, your technique is solid. You didn't focus-recompose. ;) :D

[TheHoff]

I never said they ALWAYS buck back and forth. My nephews are always on the move as well, but they squirm like mad on someone's lap.

But look at the distance -- from wife's knees to wife's chest? If the baby is bucking that much, you need to take a break, calm them down, and try again later.

Normal baby movement I might expect the focus to be on the kid's buttons or on the kid's ears-- I get that occasionally if I'm not quick enough on the shutter -- but that must be 8 inches the focus is off by.

And another argument against focus/recompose with kids is that delay between the two events is giving them another chance to move. Use an outer AF point or if that isn't reliable enough for you, compose loosely, use center AF, and crop in post. We have more than enough MP now to make that workable.

That child in your photo isn't even close to "bucking" around.

:D He is rocking back and forth on his stomach as he learns to crawl so I don't know how much more back and forth movement you'd like to see. And yea I'm not arguing that my kung fu is the best just that your focus might be off by an inch or two if technique is the issue -- the OP's focus is off by 8 inches or more.

[cdifoto]

I'm not saying it's normal/typical/continual or that OP isn't making like a Sears Portrait studio and torturing the poor thing, but it happens. I mean, the kid doesn't look like she's in a position of comfort in that shot. It looks to me like she squirmed backwards from a significantly more forward position while he was doing his little focus-recompose dance.

[TheHoff]

We'll agree to disagree then. I don't think his wife was bucking around so her knees moved the same amount, but if that is what you posit, I can't prove you wrong.

[cdifoto]

Of course the wife isn't bucking around. I never implied that. I said that the little girl could have been leaning forward more...even with her face right over her legs. Infants don't always sit STRAIGHT up you know. :D

No that it matters. Neither of us was there. The point really is that OP's technique of focus-recompose is NOT going to fly with fast apertures AND a moving subject. It rarely ever works with fast apertures and a non-moving subject.

To summarize:

Focus-recompose sucks! :lol:

[TheHoff]

Ohh I see what you mean about leaning forward, catching focus, then leaning back... yup, that could happen. You would hope, though, that with digital you would take enough frames that the bucking would be so much of an issue.

Like I said, I'd expect an error of an inch or two every few frames but if this is the best you got, there is some major technique (or hardware) flaw here.

[cdifoto]

I'll agree with that, definitely. If that's the best and there was no actual bucking, there's got to be something totally out of whack. Even focus-recompose isn't usually that far off. Unless OP is in AI Servo and trying to focus-recompose. :D

[iamdogdog]

Thanks all again,

I will try using those off-center focus points next time shooting the baby and not using the "recompose" technique just to sort things out(really need to wait for the good mood from both mother and baby :) ). I am shooting with an XSI body and 50mm 1.8 lens, not sure if this is related. Over the past couple month, I realized that the focus between 1.8 to 4 is hit and miss. Btw, I was shooting my baby at my max sync speed (1/200) already.

Another reason I am thinking is because I am standing like 7feet away from my baby and thats why focusing on her eyes is not as obvious (to the camera) as standing very close to her because her eyes are not always open at full. Does this make sense at all?

[ibdb]

If you allow the camera to choose what it thinks it should focus on, it will pick the most contrasty part of the scene, even if that's not what you want it to focus on. Choosing the focus point yourself will help avoid that. You can tell the camera where to focus by selecting a specific focus point, and putting that on the eyes, rather than letting the camera guess at what you want. Choosing an off-center point will allow you to do that, and avoid the possible focus-recompose issues discussed above.

[EOS_JD]

Over the past couple month, I realized that the focus between 1.8 to 4 is hit and miss. Btw, I was shooting my baby at my max sync speed (1/200) already.

The reson focus is hit and miss is probably because yje depth of field is so narrow. If you recompose you will likely miss focus most of the time. If the subject moves a few cm you will also likely miss focus. There is no need to use the flash at the max sync speed..... learn how to mix ambient with flash and your exposures will look better 9and your batteries will last longer)!


Another reason I am thinking is because I am standing like 7feet away from my baby and thats why focusing on her eyes is not as obvious (to the camera) as standing very close to her because her eyes are not always open at full. Does this make sense at all?

The eyes to not need to be open. You need to set the focus point and make sure that it's set on the eyes. Don't recompose - use the best AF point.

You can recompose if you select a suitable smaller aperture - more depth of field allowing more leeway in terms of acceptable focus.

[iamdogdog]

Dude... every day for the past 5 months and 8 days. About 4,000 frames I'd guess. And he MOVES. Never stops.

The focus is on his wife's knees -- was she bucking back and forth as well? :D


bucking baby @ f/2, outer AF point

http://i40.tinypic.com/mjnvc7.jpg
Hi TheHoff, are you focusing on his eyes as well? How far between camera and him(did you crop)? I will try to do the same distance thing as you so I can sort things out.

Thanks.

[TheHoff]

Hi TheHoff, are you focusing on his eyes as well? How far between camera and him(did you crop)? I will try to do the same distance thing as you so I can sort things out.

Thanks.

Hi,

There is no crop on that file. I'd back up a bit from my shot here as the closer you get, the more difficult it is to obtain the best focus.

Rather than try again with your daughter, I might try some static objects in the same size / distance range. Make sure you can get proper focus with your technique and your equipment when you know the subject is not moving. Sometimes when I'm setting up lights for my boy, I'll put one of his stuffed monkeys in the shot where I want him to be to check the lighting and shadows -- this would also work for you. Just grab a doll and put them in a similar position. Make sure your shots are right on with that first and then go to a moving target.

[iamdogdog]

another question, would getting a speedlight (430ex or 580ex) or ST-E2 helped me with a more accurate focus in this situation? Or those will only helps me in low light condition?

thanks.

[EOS_JD]

another question, would getting a speedlight (430ex or 580ex) or ST-E2 helped me with a more accurate focus in this situation? Or those will only helps me in low light condition?

thanks.

Only in low light.

You need to practice your AF skills more. Once you realise what you are doing wrong it's easier to get right. You will not get every shot right but choosing the best aperture, shutter speed & ISO for any given situation will help a lot!

Shooting at f1.8 from 7' with a baby that is moving back and fro is unlikely to be the best settings..... Try f8 and use a flash not for focus but to add light to the scene to allow you to get f8.

[shaftmaster]

I agree that focus and recompose is error prone when shooting children, so I generally use outer focus points to minimize focus errors and the time between achieving focus and releasing the shutter. What bugs me is that my camera (Rebel XT - 350D) and I assume most others have the focus points arranged in a "plus sign" which doesn't work that well for "rule of thirds" compositions. Why aren't the outer focus points arranged in an X along the diagonals of the frame?

[iamdogdog]

Hi all,

Here are some more photos. This time I tried using the center AF point and NOT re-compose. However, because I lend my 1.8 lens to my friend, I was shooting it with my kit lens between F5.6 to F8. Therefore, I can't really test out if the out focus earlier is due to the lens or big aperture or something else.

All comments are welcome.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3516/3304064463_e029e79820.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3516/3304064463_e029e79820.jpg)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3479/3304913384_e7e7254af7.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3401/3304923700_324c62b7cc.jpg

[EOS_JD]

Better although the side/back light is making some funny shadows. No1 is great.

Remember to use an appropriate focus point and to focus on the eyes.

[TheHoff]

What a cute smile in #1.

Do a member post search in this forum for Cheetapita and take some lighting / prop cues from her as these don't look as natural as they could.

[anthony11]

Better although the side/back light is making some funny shadows.
Sometimes that can be highly desirable -- and is one reason why flashes aren't always ideal. The facial shadows show depth and accent features.

You must have had pretty good light to get these shots at those apertures. I'd say all three are pretty awesome.

I second the idea of shooting raw (to eliminate IQ degradation due to multiple lossy encode/decode passes with loose framing so you can crop after the fact.