Ok Primoz...Heres one for you to get!

[AdamLewis]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29092884/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/16/

Pretty interesting. I dont know if its something Id be willing to do

[tomcat360]

Rather do that than the picture of the Canadian guy doing what appears to be a truck driver backflip on an escalator, haha. Lots of skiing pictures this week, what was up with the random people skiing though? Didn't seem like an exciting picture or newsworthy.

[Biffbradford]

I don't get the blurred ski jumper, but I guess if you can't get a sharp pic, you get what you can.

[AdamLewis]

I don't get the blurred ski jumper, but I guess if you can't get a sharp pic, you get what you can.

Do you understand how he got it?

One MAJOR point of photography is to provide angles and pictures that people have never seen before.

[alduin]

Do you understand how he got it?

Hopefully with a remote camera and a couple of Pocket Wizards. =P

[AdamLewis]

Hopefully with a remote camera and a couple of Pocket Wizards. =P
A remote camera that moved at almost the same rate as the skier? ;)

[Dan-o]

Just because it was difficult to obtain that shot and is a new perspective doesn't make it good.

[AdamLewis]

Just because it was difficult to obtain that shot and is a new perspective doesn't make it good.


Ok..

[Tony.Ibarra]

That face slap in number 2 looks painful. I liked the episode of Mythbusters when they decided to slap the crap out of each other and record it with a high-speed camera shooting at 300fps. At that speed, it no longer becomes offensive, but an exercise in science.

[primoz]

Personally I agree with Biffbradford and Dan.... I don't like it. I like idea, but I don't like photo. At least for skiing, but it's not much better in anything else either, guys from big agencies (Reuter, AFP, AP...) sometimes send pretty much everything no matter how it looks.
Most of us are pretty good friends, so once you are down in press center, with quite some time to waste after races, and before you go for beer on evening, you go around a bit and see others photos. And sometimes I'm wondering how they have guts to send such photos. Ok sometimes it doesn't go any other way, and you send not perfect photos too, but in such cases as this one is, I wouldn't send it. It still needs to be sharp... but that's just my opinion. But on the other side, we have really good cooperation with other agencies (including few really big ones) also because of that... They get good photos not crap, and those people know how to appreciate this.
As far as this photo is concerned, I kinda have idea how it was done. He was standing next or under the table where ski jumpers take off, and then he made pretty much normal panning. It's not really all that easy to make it, but still... This year, I wasn't shooting any ski jumping yet, but there are finals of ski jumping World cup coming in end of March, so I will have 4 days of ski jumping to play with :) So I will see :D

[Biffbradford]

Do you understand how he got it?

One MAJOR point of photography is to provide angles and pictures that people have never seen before.

Well, yeah ... he was standing at the bottom of the inrun. Sure, it's colorful, but other than that, nothing special. Blurry shots are easy to get! http://emoticons4u.com/happy/028.gif

[AdamLewis]

Well, yeah ... he was standing at the bottom of the inrun. Sure, it's colorful, but other than that, nothing special. Blurry shots are easy to get! http://emoticons4u.com/happy/028.gif


lol ok.

Nevermind.

Ill just let you all laugh at the guy who actually shoots for AFP and Getty :lol:

I think its a pretty amazing picture.

[Croasdail]

I am actually going to weigh in with Adam on this one. I have shot hundreds of thousands of sports shots. Most of them indistinguishable from the rest, and pretty much like every other photo out there. For the most part, that is my job. Getting "sharp", clean images just isn't all that hard with the right equipment. Coming of with something "NEW" or interesting on the other hand is dang hard when commodity shots is what most want.

[MJPhotos24]

lol ok.

Nevermind.

Ill just let you all laugh at the guy who actually shoots for AFP and Getty :lol:

I think its a pretty amazing picture.

So, just because a guy works for AFP and Getty everyone has to like his images? Huh, that seems kind of stupid to tell you the truth. I know other shooters who I'm not a big fan of there work, but they shoot for some bigger companies and produce lesser quality than I see from other 'togs who may be shooting for some small place. This includes some places I shoot for that are bigger names. Why would who they happened to get in with have an effect on me about what they produce?

As for the photo itself, it's a cool concept - good pic for what they were doing and definitley different, but overall just not a huge fan. It is hard to find "new" photos as everything's been done before, always appreciate those trying to do it, just not always going to like the results.

[40DAndy]

I like the idea of the photo but I'm boring, traditional or whatever you want to say. I'd rather have a sharp regular photo than a blurry awesome angle. But, I only do this for fun so....

[Aaagogo]

POPCORN...

there seems to be a lot of popcorn going on lately

that link has some pretty cool images though

[AdamLewis]

So, just because a guy works for AFP and Getty everyone has to like his images?

Yep. Because thats totally what I said...

[MJPhotos24]

Yep. Because thats totally what I said...
Pretty much...


Who he shoots for has nothing to do with if someone thinks this is a great image or a blurry mess, you brought it up.

[primoz]

guy who actually shoots for AFP and GettyOnce you are more in this business, things start to look a lot different then they look from outside. Why? First small disclaimer. I don't mean anything bad with this, and I hope someone won't be offended, because I don't mean this in bad way, so please understand it this way, even though if it might sound like this... but it's just because of my English, not because I would mean it bad way.
Ok now that I'm on safe side, I can try to explain this :) Once you are shooting more of this World cup, World Championships, etc. stuff, things start to look different, then when you are shooting high school sport. When you are shooting high school sport, and I don't mean anything bad with this, and I don't mean anyone in particular with this, you look at guys working for Reuters, AFP, AP etc. as gods. They have to be really good if they work for those big agencies, right? Then, when you are actually working side by side with those guys for years, you see they are not really gods, but just normal people who got job in different company then you have. And afterall it really is just that... one or another company, nothing more. They don't pick best photographers, so that only best photographers can work for them, they hire photographers, just as any other company. And with a bit luck, you get this job, just as any other job. So most of people who I know and work for Reuters, AFP, Getty, AP etc. are nothing special. Huge majority of them are really cool guys, but that's about it. They are not 3 times better shooters then rest of us. They are quite same, and quite often even worse then lot of shooters working for small agencies or newspaper. In reality, there is no fame in this, and noone looks at them like "Whoa look at that guy, he works for this and that". But they have some privileges... and because of these, people who don't know behind the scene stuff, consider them as top of the cream.
Now let me explain why.... They almost never, at least when it comes to sport, work alone. There's always at least 2 of them, but most of time there's more then just 2. This way things can be done completely different then when you are there alone. With more shooters you can organize things different, and so one or two of them are shooting standard photos, so they have photo for sure. Rest of them can play and do other things. This way you get all sort of cool, unusual photos, or on the other side they don't get anything. But first, or first two guys have photos, so it's no big deal if there's nothing useful from other guys. But more important, if there is something useful, then everyone are happy because most of time they have cool and what's more important, they have photos different then rest of pack have.
On the other side, when you are there alone, you go with standard, safe photos, and on outside this shows, like you are much worse shooter then those guys from bigger agencies are, because they have some cool photos, while you have only those standard ones.
Ok I know I'm being way to long already, and noone is going to bother to read this, so... :)

[Big K]

Once you are more in this business, things start to look a lot different then they look from outside. Why? First small disclaimer. I don't mean anything bad with this, and I hope someone won't be offended, because I don't mean this in bad way, so please understand it this way, even though if it might sound like this... but it's just because of my English, not because I would mean it bad way.
Ok now that I'm on safe side, I can try to explain this :) Once you are shooting more of this World cup, World Championships, etc. stuff, things start to look different, then when you are shooting high school sport. When you are shooting high school sport, and I don't mean anything bad with this, and I don't mean anyone in particular with this, you look at guys working for Reuters, AFP, AP etc. as gods. They have to be really good if they work for those big agencies, right? Then, when you are actually working side by side with those guys for years, you see they are not really gods, but just normal people who got job in different company then you have. And afterall it really is just that... one or another company, nothing more. They don't pick best photographers, so that only best photographers can work for them, they hire photographers, just as any other company. And with a bit luck, you get this job, just as any other job. So most of people who I know and work for Reuters, AFP, Getty, AP etc. are nothing special. Huge majority of them are really cool guys, but that's about it. They are not 3 times better shooters then rest of us. They are quite same, and quite often even worse then lot of shooters working for small agencies or newspaper. In reality, there is no fame in this, and noone looks at them like "Whoa look at that guy, he works for this and that". But they have some privileges... and because of these, people who don't know behind the scene stuff, consider them as top of the cream.
Now let me explain why.... They almost never, at least when it comes to sport, work alone. There's always at least 2 of them, but most of time there's more then just 2. This way things can be done completely different then when you are there alone. With more shooters you can organize things different, and so one or two of them are shooting standard photos, so they have photo for sure. Rest of them can play and do other things. This way you get all sort of cool, unusual photos, or on the other side they don't get anything. But first, or first two guys have photos, so it's no big deal if there's nothing useful from other guys. But more important, if there is something useful, then everyone are happy because most of time they have cool and what's more important, they have photos different then rest of pack have.
On the other side, when you are there alone, you go with standard, safe photos, and on outside this shows, like you are much worse shooter then those guys from bigger agencies are, because they have some cool photos, while you have only those standard ones.
Ok I know I'm being way to long already, and noone is going to bother to read this, so... :)

I personally read every word you post and thank you for taking the time to offer some insight in how things work. Have a good weekend.

[AdamLewis]

Pretty much...


Who he shoots for has nothing to do with if someone thinks this is a great image or a blurry mess, you brought it up.

Ok. Youre totally right.

[AdamLewis]

Once you are more in this business, things start to look a lot different then they look from outside. Why? First small disclaimer. I don't mean anything bad with this, and I hope someone won't be offended, because I don't mean this in bad way, so please understand it this way, even though if it might sound like this... but it's just because of my English, not because I would mean it bad way.
Ok now that I'm on safe side, I can try to explain this :) Once you are shooting more of this World cup, World Championships, etc. stuff, things start to look different, then when you are shooting high school sport. When you are shooting high school sport, and I don't mean anything bad with this, and I don't mean anyone in particular with this, you look at guys working for Reuters, AFP, AP etc. as gods. They have to be really good if they work for those big agencies, right? Then, when you are actually working side by side with those guys for years, you see they are not really gods, but just normal people who got job in different company then you have. And afterall it really is just that... one or another company, nothing more. They don't pick best photographers, so that only best photographers can work for them, they hire photographers, just as any other company. And with a bit luck, you get this job, just as any other job. So most of people who I know and work for Reuters, AFP, Getty, AP etc. are nothing special. Huge majority of them are really cool guys, but that's about it. They are not 3 times better shooters then rest of us. They are quite same, and quite often even worse then lot of shooters working for small agencies or newspaper. In reality, there is no fame in this, and noone looks at them like "Whoa look at that guy, he works for this and that". But they have some privileges... and because of these, people who don't know behind the scene stuff, consider them as top of the cream.
Now let me explain why.... They almost never, at least when it comes to sport, work alone. There's always at least 2 of them, but most of time there's more then just 2. This way things can be done completely different then when you are there alone. With more shooters you can organize things different, and so one or two of them are shooting standard photos, so they have photo for sure. Rest of them can play and do other things. This way you get all sort of cool, unusual photos, or on the other side they don't get anything. But first, or first two guys have photos, so it's no big deal if there's nothing useful from other guys. But more important, if there is something useful, then everyone are happy because most of time they have cool and what's more important, they have photos different then rest of pack have.
On the other side, when you are there alone, you go with standard, safe photos, and on outside this shows, like you are much worse shooter then those guys from bigger agencies are, because they have some cool photos, while you have only those standard ones.
Ok I know I'm being way to long already, and noone is going to bother to read this, so... :)

Primoz,

Lemme say just a few things.


I think youre an awesome skiing photographer. Thats why I thought of you as soon as I saw this picture
I read every word of what you said
Even if it was directed at me, I shoot a lot more than HS sports and have shot alongside Getty/Reuters/SI photographers for everything from NCAA Div1 sports, to the Kentucky Derby, to professional Volleyball. I know theyre just human and Ive even posted on the subject before. At this point in time though, Im not trying to pursue photography as a career and it just so happens that covering HS sports for different media outlets pays pretty well here. That being said, Kazuhiro Nogi isnt just some two bit stringer. Go to Getty images and just search for his sports pictures. He covers everything and was one of the people selected to go shoot the Beijing Olympics. Now again, Im nto saying everything he does is photographic gold just because he went to the Olympics, but how many people here were selected by a media outlet to go cover it? How many people on the entire forum?

Im not saying that shooting for Getty/AFP makes you a God, but it does mean that you have a very solid grasp on photography and are consistently able to deliver above average images. If you werent, theres at least a thousand guys lined up ready to take your place.

If youre interested, Ill even give you a head start.
http://demo.photodisc.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&assetType=image&ep=2&p=kazuhiro%20nogi&src=standard#17

[primoz]

Even if it was directed at meNo Adam it wasn't directed at you. I quoted part of your text, but I was writing in general.... you just gave me option to write about this :) As I said, I didn't want to make this into any fight, and I'm sorry if it looked like this, so hopefully noone is offended by this. Next to this, I don't think anything bad about anyone shooting HS sport. There's no problem in this, and pretty much noone comes to top level pro sport from nowhere. We all start somewhere, and some people have chance to shoot one thing, others have chance to shoot something else. It's same as shooting sport, or shooting politics. Are those shooting US president any better then those of us, who stand all day long on skiing slopes? I don't think so. Just as I don't think that I'm any better then someone else, just because I have "privilege" to shoot skiing World cup instead of high school skiing. Afterall it's still just a job. And it's same job no matter if athlete you are shooting is called Bode Miller or 13 years old Bob Millner.
All I wrote is, that things look different from different perspective, and someone might actually think, people shooting top level pro sport (and preferably for big agencies) are better shooters then those who shoot high school sport. But that's just not true ;)
I consider myself pretty much equal as any Reuters, Getty, AP or AFP shooter (yeah I know, I'm very modest today :p), and once we are on course, we actually treat each other same way... as equals no matter if someone is working for Reuters, or for some small agency.

So please don't take this personal. It wasn't meant to attack you :)
PS: There's one guy shooting for AFP who's style and ideas I actually like... at least most of time, since sometimes, he's ideas are a bit too weird :) And he's one of very few, for which I think this (yeah being modest again :p ). On top of that, he's really cool guy and really good friend of mine, so... Check Getty's web and search for Joe Klamar. Most of his work is different... even when he's the only one from AFP on the hill, but he's long enough in this business so he can afford more then the rest of us :)

[AdamLewis]

Check Getty's web and search for Joe Klamar. Most of his work is different...


Looking him up now. Thanks for the information.

[Aaagogo]

does those news agency's/stock photo companies pay good?

[MJPhotos24]

does those news agency's/stock photo companies pay good?
If you're submitting and not on a day fee they pay by usage, so depends on the usage (50-75% depending on the agency). Day fees are day fees, some good and some bad.

[Croasdail]

If youre interested, Ill even give you a head start.
http://demo.photodisc.com/Search/Sea...rc=standard#17

This is where I am going to agree with Primoz. Adam, the gallery you pointed to is a classic example of production sports shots, nothing special, most very ordinary. The event is special, the photography isn't. I have every confidence that had Primoz, Adam, or handful of other shooters who display here had been given the same access, they all would have come back with images of equal quality. Its all production photography. Very safe, very reliable. That is why I was interested in the first shot linked to by Adam. It was a variation... a risk. I like that aspect of it a lot. I spend 99.5 percent of my time doing this kind of stuff, because I don't have a creative bone in my body. If I get something artful, it is completely by accident. Kudos to the photographer for trying something non-traditional.

[AdamLewis]

Check Getty's web and search for Joe Klamar. Most of his work is different...

Looking him up now. Thanks for the information.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28614206/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/9/

[primoz]

I still like that first one better. Idea is really nice, but it's not done good in my opinion. Otherwise I have few similar photos as this one from Joe is :)

http://www.photo.si/img/sport/spo_skijump_20080313nw_0604.jpg
With a bit less of people during qualifications. (Janne Happonen of Finland)

http://www.photo.si/img/sport/spo_skijump_20080315bm_0192.jpg
With a bit more of people during competition. (Gregor Schlierenzauer of Austria)

http://www.photo.si/img/sport/spo_skijump_20080313nw_0642.jpg
And something in between. (Gregor Schlierenzauer of Austria)

But these are not same as that first photo you put link to. That idea is really cool one, these are more of a standard shoots. Ok not entirely, but still.

[Biffbradford]

Those are nice shots, but the original was taken at night. Now, I've only photographed a couple jumping tournaments, but I did learn that when you're at the bottom of the inrun, with the jumpers flying away from you at 60mph (100kph), you don't get much time to get your shot, and at night it's real hard! LOL So, I can see why the colorful, blurry photo was used, but it seems like a bailout to me ... the photog wasn't having a good day and he just couldn't 'seem to nail' one. ;)

One of my best ones so far:

http://peloton-pix.smugmug.com/photos/465156500_uYmcX-M-1.jpg

[AdamLewis]

Those are nice shots, but the original was taken at night. Now, I've only photographed a couple jumping tournaments, but I did learn that when you're at the bottom of the inrun, with the jumpers flying away from you at 60mph (100kph), you don't get much time to get your shot, and at night it's real hard! LOL So, I can see why the colorful, blurry photo was used, but it seems like a bailout to me ... the photog wasn't having a good day and he just couldn't 'seem to nail' one. ;)

One of my best ones so far:



If you look at his gallery on Getty, he "nailed" quite a few. The blurred shot was just a more artistic attempt.

[AdamLewis]

And Primoz, those shots are awesome (as always).