How I photograph receptions

[tim]

Wedding receptions are often very, very dark places, i've seen receptions with ambient light levels that need ISO3200/F2.8/0.5sec to expose correctly! Even with a modern camera and fast primes with ISO6400 and F1.4 you'd need 1/16th, which personally I find too slow because of camera shake and subject movement. The quality of light isn't always very flattering, with a mix of candles, tungsten bulbs, and fluorescent lights. Because of that I choose to light most receptions, overpowering the ambient light, though sometimes I set up to enhance it using gels and lower powers. Beware that a cto gel to match tungsten can lose a stop of power. If you want to take an ambient shot to show the atmosphere it's easy to flick back to Av mode and ramp up the ISO to try to get a decent shot.

I typically use two Canon Speedlites (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/486706-USA/Canon_1946B002_580EX_II_Flash.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) (550/580) on these stands (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/114161-REG/Smith_Victor_401291_Raven_8_Black_Light.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), with Canon CP-E4 battery packs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498738-REG/Canon_1947B001_Compact_Battery_Pack_CP_E4.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) to cut recycle time by 2/3. The lights are triggered by Skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), with locking PC cords from www.flashzebra.com so I can have a flash on the hotshoe as well. I use this cord (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421306-REG/Paramount_PMMHSF1_Miniphone_to_Female_Hot.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) to connect the skyports to the flashes, and this bracket (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298709-REG/Impact_3117_Umbrella_Bracket.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) to connect the flash to the stands. I used to use Sunpak flashes, but they didn't recharge quickly enough for me, and with a home made battery pack one of them almost caught fire at a reception, so I switched to all Canon for performance and reliability.

If the venue has white ceilings I usually use between 1/4 and 1/2 power on the flashes, which gets me ISO400-800, F2.8 - F4.5, depending on the venue. If the ceilings aren't white I point the flashes directly at the head table, usually at around 1/16th or 1/32nd power, which gives me ISO400 F5.6 or so.

As a quick aside - for location lighting I use a Morris Soft Box (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/90032-REG/Morris_32600_Soft_Box_15x18_.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) which is about 20", with the speedlite, battery pack, and skyport mentioned above. My assistant holds it, it's quite light.

Here's a few examples.

#1 - this shows the setup
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/rec1.jpg

#2 - this shows the type of lighting I get with the setup above
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/rec2.jpg

#3 - a cake cutting setup
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/rec3.jpg

#4 - a whole room shot, to show what two strobes can do. I probably used a little bit of on camera flash too.
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/rec4.jpg

#5 - this room had a black ceiling and green walls. I photographed the head table using direct off camera flash. ISO400, F5.6, 1/125th, flash power probably 1/16th or so. I used 70mm so each person was about the same size but still keep some DOF, at 17mm the guy in front would be huge and the girls at the back tiny. Beware harsh shadows if you shoot direct, like the silhouette of the person on the front of the head table's tablecloth.
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/rec5.jpg

People have asked for photos of how I set my camera up, so here they are

Camera with custom locking PC sync cable from FlashZebra.com (http://flashzebra.com/screwlock_pc/index.shtml)
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/ocl1.jpg

Showing the connection to my camera
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/ocl2.jpg

It's mounted to the flash head with velcro on the flash head and the transmitter. Ideally I mount it with the antenna away from the transmitter body, pointing up
http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/ocl4.jpg

[timecut]

On camera speedlite fill, skyports triggering speedlites fed by CP-E4's. Flash on camera not always turned on. Speedlites on stands between 1/4 and 1/2 depending how I feel on the day. Lights on stands pointing at ceiling if it's white, otherwise pointing directly at the head table on 1/32nd or so. I usually get ISO400 F4, more or less.
pretty cool image!!

[rammy]

Thanks for the example Tim. Looks nice and bright.

How do you trigger the Skyports if you have a flash on your camera hotshoe? Where do you have the Skyport trigger connected to fire the remote flashes? Do you use the 2.5mm sync port on the transmitter?

[form]

If I were doing the same thing I would hide a low bare flash behind the table too if there's room, and set it at low power, just to give an edge light.

Most places I've been to don't have such conveniently low, white ceilings.

[Peacefield]

I'm glad you posted this because I've heard of a few people saying the don't use on camera flash for receptions at all, just a few strobes perpetually pointed at the ceiling. My question, though, is how do you adapt to the ongoing event? The dancing, people at the tables, etc. Do you move them around all night? Do you use them just for head table shots?

[form]

Probably moves the stands. I would (and do) if needed. I use anywhere from 3-5 off camera flashes now for wedding receptions. I almost always want a kicker edge/rim light and a good fill light somewhere, especially for the dance floor.

[photagraph]

I want to try something like this! Not sure it'll work that well with canons wireless triggering though.

[tim]

Thanks for the example Tim. Looks nice and bright.

How do you trigger the Skyports if you have a flash on your camera hotshoe? Where do you have the Skyport trigger connected to fire the remote flashes? Do you use the 2.5mm sync port on the transmitter?

I have a speedlite on the hotshoe, and the skyport transmitter is velcro'd to the flash head and connected to the camera's sync port. Yep I use the little sync port on the transmitter.

If I were doing the same thing I would hide a low bare flash behind the table too if there's room, and set it at low power, just to give an edge light.

Most places I've been to don't have such conveniently low, white ceilings.

I'd say about 1/2 of the reception halls I photograph in have white ceilings. For the ones that don't I shoot the flashes direct at much lower power.

I could have hidden the stands, or I could photoshop out the light stands, but I don't see a big need.

I'm glad you posted this because I've heard of a few people saying the don't use on camera flash for receptions at all, just a few strobes perpetually pointed at the ceiling. My question, though, is how do you adapt to the ongoing event? The dancing, people at the tables, etc. Do you move them around all night? Do you use them just for head table shots?

I move the lights whenever I need to. As they are they light the front half of the hall fine. I have the on camera speedlite if I need to light other places.

I want to try something like this! Not sure it'll work that well with canons wireless triggering though.

Nope, it'll be unreliable. You need skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), pocket wizards, or the alien bee ones.

[RobNYC]

Thanks for posting this Tim!

[stathunter]

That looks like a perfect location for off camera lighting. Lately the locations I have had are not so perfect.

[bnlearle]

Radiopoppers are a great option for those of us in civilized nations :p

[lil_miss]

They're coming to NZ very soon!! :) Eagerly awaiting

[tim]

I have no desire for radio poppers. In this situation having a consistent amount of light means all my shots come out the same brightness, and need exactly the same post processing. Using ETTL they're all going to come out different and would need to be processed individually, by hand. That slows my workflow down a LOT.

Also using ETTL you do occasionally get some weird results. In long grass the other weekend I had 95% good exposures, but 5% were two stops overexposed with the same framing. I have no idea why.

I use manual flash more than I use ETTL now, I just like the consistency. Of course I have an assistant manning the flash when we're doing an interactive session, by myself it'd probably be too time consuming.

[Matt30D]

Tim- I have a 580EX and 4 430's, what could you do with this set up..with all 430's on stands? Be CREATIVE>

[form]

Assuming you're using the built-in infrared, I would put them really close to you at all times and pray the triggering system works.

Creatively I might try a triangle or square pattern and point them from the corners/edges into the middle of the room, all raised and pointing downward, all with umbrellas/brollies. The 580EX would then fill wherever needed.

[tim]

I've added my gear list and links to the first post. IR isn't reliable enough, I use radio slaves, skyports. I have more stands and lights I just don't need more than two, so unless you have a huge venue with four i'd suggest you just use two. Depends what you want to light though, for me it's the head table and the front of the hall.

[Matt30D]

Thanks Tim...so DO not rely on the IR?

[tim]

I rarely use IR any more, I just don't find the reliability good enough. In a small white room they'd probably be ok, but not 100%. I want 100%.

[Matt30D]

I am a little confues on the radio slaves? If I used 2 430's with my 580, what set up would I need to trigger the 430's...a hook up on my 580 and the 430's??

[tim]

You put a transmitter on the hotshoe of your camera, or connect it via PC port. You connect a receiver to each flash. Everything's in manual - camera and all flashes. I prefer 580 units with CP-E4 battery packs.

[RobNYC]

Tim -
Did you ever shoot a wedding using regular AA batteries for all your flashes?

[tim]

Tim -
Did you ever shoot a wedding using regular AA batteries for all your flashes?

Not with this kind of setup. I tend to use 1/4 or 1/2 power, even with CP-E4 packs the recharge time on 1/2 power is about 1 second. With two photographers and shooting sequences this is only just enough. If I was in a larger venue i'd use my AlienBees, they put out more light and recharge faster, but they're just so damn big I don't like to bring them out as they'd be intrusive.

[RobNYC]

Thanks Tim.
I'm doing an event in June for a family member and my setup will be similar to yours except using Pocket Wizards. Most events I shoot are shorter in duration and less demanding but the June event is a wedding. I am trying to avoid buying battery packs!

[tim]

You could get away without battery packs for a single wedding, just shoot 1/4 power and higher ISO, things will still look much better than ambient :)

[form]

I would like to buy power packs for my sunpaks but the black box is the only option and I'm rather afraid to fry them. Plus their lack of zooming head makes the output significantly weaker for bouncing off distant surfaces. The alternative of buying a bunch of 580EX IIs plus battery packs would cost me more than an 85L.

[tim]

I have one power pack for a Sunpak, the TR-II or something, I never use it so if you want to buy it you can have it for what it cost me - no idea what that was off the top of my head. It needs a new power supply which is $50 from B&H.

[form]

Really I don't want to invest more in these sunpaks unless to just buy more of them and increase my output. I got two for about $14 each and it practically killed me to pay $15 per 2.5mm to 3.5mm specialty adapter just to use my skyports with them. The emails I sent to flashzebra were not very pleasant, but I paid because I had to. Thanks for the offer.

I would certainly be interested in obtaining additional sunpak 383s though, but only if they were around $30/$40 each or less. I need to make some mounting brackets for 2-3 flashes per stand.

[mattograph]

I have no desire for radio poppers. In this situation having a consistent amount of light means all my shots come out the same brightness, and need exactly the same post processing. Using ETTL they're all going to come out different and would need to be processed individually, by hand. That slows my workflow down a LOT.

Also using ETTL you do occasionally get some weird results. In long grass the other weekend I had 95% good exposures, but 5% were two stops overexposed with the same framing. I have no idea why.

I use manual flash more than I use ETTL now, I just like the consistency. Of course I have an assistant manning the flash when we're doing an interactive session, by myself it'd probably be too time consuming.


Hey Tim

Do you see any value in using the Radiopoppers to control flash output in Manual mode from your "main" flash?

[tim]

Hey Tim

Do you see any value in using the Radiopoppers to control flash output in Manual mode from your "main" flash?

Not really. That could be useful in a limited set of places - say if you don't have easy physical access to the flashes or when you need to change power often. I just set it and adjust my camera to match.

[form]

Here's what's useful: The new pocketwizards that communicate and control brand name flashes.

[tim]

According to Mike @ Tricoast the new PWs range is very limited using 580EX flashes - 30 or 40ft. With a 430EX the range is higher. It has something to do with interference. Check the tricoast blog for details.

[form]

That rather sucks.

[mritchy]

I wish I could do things like this..

[Pigsy]

Tim, have you ever tried this setup on small groups, say 10 people, in say a dimly lit church ?, or similar venue ?

I was toying with getting some actual studio lights, such as the larger Elinchrom ones, just for the days that are rainy, or even just for group indoor shots, but if this works in darker situations, I may well just go for this sort of setup.

Jim..

[tim]

Tim, have you ever tried this setup on small groups, say 10 people, in say a dimly lit church ?, or similar venue ?

Nope. Light is light, really, speedlites or strobes. Church formals are tough to do well, i've only done them once, I used studio lights and shoot through umbrellas, but it was a modern church with a wall not far behind them so I didn't have any issues.

[biggpopa]

I have a shoot to do in a hotel. Bride and Groom want some pics with their family. Would you just use a flash on camera?....might be difficult to bounce as I do believe the ceiling is high. OR, would I be better off mounting the flash on a stand?

My only worry is lighting up the groups of people.

[tim]

I'd use the same setup as for receptions, except shot through umbrellas up high. This works for one row, maybe two. I might use studio strobes as the stands go higher if there were more groups, or you can zoom the flash heads to 105mm and bounce off high ceilings.

If you have questions that don't relate to the topic of the thread i'd suggest you start a thread to gather general advice.

[mattograph]

I have a shoot to do in a hotel. Bride and Groom want some pics with their family. Would you just use a flash on camera?....might be difficult to bounce as I do believe the ceiling is high. OR, would I be better off mounting the flash on a stand?

My only worry is lighting up the groups of people.

Not to hijack tims thread, but if you go to kelbytraining.com, David Ziser has about 6 hours of video instruction on shooting brides and grooms with on camera and off camera flash, all served up in nice little 3-5 minute lessons that are easy to swallow and digest. It is incredibly detailed yet easy to follow. Cost is $20 per month for a member ship, but you could easily get through them in a month and drop it.

Best $20 I ever spent.

BTW -- He shoots Canon, so even all his camera setup info (white balance, exposure comp) is tailor made for us..... :)

[biggpopa]

If you have questions that don't relate to the topic of the thread i'd suggest you start a thread to gather general advice.

Thanks for the info. I'm also shooting their reception, and your info was very helpful. I thought I'd just thrown in a question about the hotel. Thanks again.

[timecut]

second for the david ziser's video in kelbytraining

[S-Man]

What about Gelling, Tim?
Do you ever gel the speedlites to match ambient? Say, CTO or anything?

[nexsim]

What about Gelling, Tim?
Do you ever gel the speedlites to match ambient? Say, CTO or anything?

I tried once this setup, but I didn't gel the speedlites due to mixed light sources, the result I was getting was awful. I guess if you're using faster shutter speeds and you don't allow that much ambient light, there's no need for gelling. But let's wait for Tim's answer ;)

BTW Tim could you post more picture samples with almost no ambient light and with ambient light?

[cdifoto]

I could have hidden the stands, or I could photoshop out the light stands, but I don't see a big need.

Same here. I try to shoot to keep them out of the frame but I don't cry a river if I have a great shot and they're in it - and neither do my clients. It's not like it's a blockbuster movie set.

I move the lights whenever I need to. As they are they light the front half of the hall fine. I have the on camera speedlite if I need to light other places.

I'm too into it to move my lights. I tend to put one in each corner though so the whole room's lit up instead.

[tim]

What about Gelling, Tim?
Do you ever gel the speedlites to match ambient? Say, CTO or anything?

You lose around 1/2 a stop with a gel, the speedlites are working hard enough already when they're bouncing off the ceiling, a gel just means I need to use full power. That's not good for them at the rate I take photos. Plus I tend to replace the light, rather than compliment it, receptions are so dark.

i would have come up a little bit more than you did. but this is a great photo.

The foreground's lit by on camera as fill, the lights only lit the head table. Again, it takes too much power to light a whole room.

I'm too into it to move my lights. I tend to put one in each corner though so the whole room's lit up instead.

Same comment - i'd do that if I had my studio lights out.

Occasionally I shoot direct at about 1/16th when there's no white ceiling, that works pretty well too.

[cdifoto]

Again, it takes too much power to light a whole room.



Same comment - i'd do that if I had my studio lights out.

Occasionally I shoot direct at about 1/16th when there's no white ceiling, that works pretty well too.
I find that 2 Vivitars on each stand @ about 1/2 power each is plenty for the average reception hall. I'm still using ISO800 or thereabouts though to make it easier. I can always crank it up to ISO1600 and go to full power adding a little patience to the recipe for the bigger places, and I still have the 580EX on the camera.

I haven't gotten my direct flash down yet. I tried it a couple times but I'm not quite there with it.

[S-Man]

How about a few more images Tim? I'd personally like to see what closeups on the head table look like.
It would seem that if you really blast the room with light, (while properly exposing the subject) you would lose some of the ambiance and 'romantic lighting' created by the ambient light in the room.
Is this the case? Or how does it look?
Thanks for the tips!

[tim]

I find that 2 Vivitars on each stand @ about 1/2 power each is plenty for the average reception hall. I'm still using ISO800 or thereabouts though to make it easier. I can always crank it up to ISO1600 and go to full power adding a little patience to the recipe for the bigger places, and I still have the 580EX on the camera.

I haven't gotten my direct flash down yet. I tried it a couple times but I'm not quite there with it.

I like ISO400 if I can get it, but I do use 800 or 1600 sometimes. Still I find 1/2 power bounced doesn't give me as much light as i'd like.

How about a few more images Tim? I'd personally like to see what closeups on the head table look like.
It would seem that if you really blast the room with light, (while properly exposing the subject) you would lose some of the ambiance and 'romantic lighting' created by the ambient light in the room.
Is this the case? Or how does it look?
Thanks for the tips!

Sure, i'll get around to getting some more images up some time. Yes you do lose the atmosphere, if there's any, but it's so dark it's often not practical to use ambient - ISO3200 F1.4 1/3 isn't really useful.

[acousticvibrations]

How about a few more images Tim? I'd personally like to see what closeups on the head table look like.
It would seem that if you really blast the room with light, (while properly exposing the subject) you would lose some of the ambiance and 'romantic lighting' created by the ambient light in the room.
Is this the case? Or how does it look?
Thanks for the tips!

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A FEW MORE TIM!

[S.Horton]

How do you meter the scene?

[tim]

I've rewritten the first post of the thread and added more photos :)

How do you meter the scene?

Either with a Sekonic L-358 light meter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/221078-REG/Sekonic_401358_L_358_Flash_Master_Meter.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) hooked up to a skyport transmitter, or by trial and error. I know about what my exposure will be, then I go by my histogram.

[RobNYC]

Tim -
I did my first wedding fully intending to use a similar setup as yours. It worked perfectly for the church but the reception hall was HUGE. There were about 225 people and the room barely had any ambient light. I survived though with on-camera bounced flash and my assistant walking around with 1 Vivitar/Pocket Wizard setup.

Just wondering... if you had a huge hall would you bring more strobes or go mobile or...?

[tim]

I don't use flash in a church, plus there's not much to bounce off anyway. Direct would work though.

For a really large room there are two strategies i'd consider:
- Just light the head table, either direct or bounced from the ceiling. You can zoom the flash head to 105mm and point it towards the ceiling to focus the light a little.
- Use bigger/more lights. If i'm going to a huge venue I could take studio lights, but I find them intrusive and they need mains power, so I don't use them often. The advantage is they're more powerful, and the recharge time's pretty quick. I'd do this if I needed to. I have three sets of transmitter/receiver, so I could use two strobes and a speedlite, plus a speedlite on the camera either direct or bounced.

[S-Man]

Tim you da MAN!
Thanks for the tips and instruction. Very cool of you to share your settings and techniques.

[RobNYC]

Thanks Tim!

[tracyvb]

Thanks Tim for taking time to write this up!!!! I'm shooting a reception only for a friend in September.

I'm thinking about bringing the Genesis 200s/shoot through umberellas at the directions you have mentioned for the head table and moving the lights once over to the dance floor later. I haven't seen the venue recently but I'm sure the ceilings are relatively low and white which will be a great help.

QUESTION:Do you think my 430 bounced be enough to trigger the Genesis lights? Or should I get some triggers for the lights?

Any other advice Tim or any of the pros have would be GREAT!!!

[jeromego]

Tim, you mentioned that aside from the Off-cam set up that you use, you also use on cam flash sometimes. what's your set up on this? do you use a bracket?

[tim]

QUESTION:Do you think my 430 bounced be enough to trigger the Genesis lights? Or should I get some triggers for the lights?

Any other advice Tim or any of the pros have would be GREAT!!!

Yes, it probably will, but so will the 50 other flashes in the room on P&S cameras. I can guarantee one will go off right before you need the light for an important moment, your frame will be dark. You must use radio slaves, like skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114).

Tim, you mentioned that aside from the Off-cam set up that you use, you also use on cam flash sometimes. what's your set up on this? do you use a bracket?

Nope, the 580EX goes directly on the hotshoe, and if I use it it's usually bounced. The skyport transmitter's velcro'd to the side of the flash, connected the the PC port using a locking sync cable.

[Mrsjperry]

LOVE IT!! Great job tim.

[tracyvb]

Good point! THANKS TIM!!!!

[tim]

Wisdom is gained by learning from your mistakes. Intelligence is learning from others mistakes.

[form]

A fool doesn't learn from their mistakes. A smart person learns from their mistakes. A wise person learns from others' mistakes. That's how I remember it. Used to be man before PC came to town, but person still fits.

That's a conveniently small and white-walled reception hall. Most of the halls I work in either don't have white walls or are larger than that. I am usually shooting ISO800-1600.

[Peacefield]

That's a conveniently small and white-walled reception hall. Most of the halls I work in either don't have white walls or are larger than that. I am usually shooting ISO800-1600.

That's my issue, too. I would love to take Tim's approach, but I've got a wedding coming up with 230 guests in an immense room. I'll probably have an assistant follow me with a second 580 on a monopod and some kind of modifiers.

[tim]

More than half of the reception halls I work in look a lot like that. I also described what I do if they're not like that in the first post of the thread - #5 - I just added a little information to the description to make that more clear.

[blackshadow]

Tim - thanks for this thread post there is some excellent stuff there.

I don't do too many weddings but am starting to shoot more events and will definitely be taking some of your advice to improve my work.

[patrick clarke]

tim ,would you consider the use of umbrellas at receptions where the ceilings were not conducive to bounce ? ; wouldn't that be better than direct flash.
also ,in those situations where you would use an umbrella ( i think you mentioned formals in a church ) what is the deciding factor between using shoot thru' vs reflective

[tim]

tim ,would you consider the use of umbrellas at receptions where the ceilings were not conducive to bounce ? ; wouldn't that be better than direct flash.
also ,in those situations where you would use an umbrella ( i think you mentioned formals in a church ) what is the deciding factor between using shoot thru' vs reflective

Umbrellas could help in some situations, but at receptions I wouldn't often use them myself. Diffuser size and distance to subject are things to consider when you think about diffusers. It's about the angles of the light hitting the subject. Say the diffuser's one meter high, and one meter from the subject. Two meters away the diffuser appears 1/2 meter high, four meters away 1/4 high, eight meters away 1/8 high, etc (this is a huge simplification). So as distance increases your diffuser loses effectiveness, and the light becomes more harsh. You still get a little diffusion though, which can help with shadows, but that's why I light head tables from both sides.

You also have to consider how intrusive your lights are - it's a wedding, not a photo shoot. A flash on a small stand can be reasonably unobtrusive, hidden in corners or behind tables/posts/etc. Put a big umbrella on and it's apparent size multiples hugely, whether you bounce or shoot through. Use a studio strobe with mains wiring is even worse. At that point you may have annoyed the bride, who's been dreaming of the perfect wedding for her whole life, by putting these big ugly lights up.

For the first dance I do often use a silver bounce umbrella, as I can hide it in a dark corner of the dance floor. Sometimes I use naked flash there too though. It really depends.

Hope that helps :)

[form]

I almost always mix bare and diffused flash for the dance floor. Diffused for fill, bare for edge. I'm probably going to change this in the future because I sometimes dislike the shadows from the bare flash.

[patrick clarke]

hi tim
i just went thru your galleries
fantastic set
i hope i'ii be even half as good as you someday
i notice that many of your ceremonies are outdoors
what do you use for lighting in these cases
thanks

[tim]

Thanks Patrick :) Outside I generally just use fill flash.

[scorpio_e]

second for the david ziser's video in kelbytraining


Just finished watching David Zieser videos.. Unbelievable information for $20.00 !!!!

[oharing]

Thanks for sharing!

[adam8080]

How do you keep the lights from getting knocked down on accident? Gaffers tape, sand bags, etc? Having someone hit in the head because someone bumped into a stand and it fell on them can't be good. Out of the way is a must, but that only works so well.

[tim]

How do you keep the lights from getting knocked down on accident? Gaffers tape, sand bags, etc? Having someone hit in the head because someone bumped into a stand and it fell on them can't be good. Out of the way is a must, but that only works so well.

I use my common sense, and so do the people at the wedding. No sand bags, no tape, and occasionally i've put them beside a dance floor surrounded by people and I haven't had a problem, though i've had a couple of times people have knocked them a bit. These days I put them out of the way a bit more.

People can't sue for their stupidity here, so they tend to watch where they're going.

[adam8080]

People can't sue for their stupidity here, so they tend to watch where they're going.

That sounds like a nice place to live!

[ponzy]

Whew.......very informative FAQ/INFO.... thanks TIM!

[tumblew33d]

Brilliant thread Tim. Thanks for sharing!

[tim]

Welcome :)

[SuperHuman21]

Nice thread Tim. What about large receptions? I'm always at wedding with buildings that act as huge rooms because that's how the Slavic speaking community likes it--with hundreds of guests. Lol, talk about a pain. I might help out in some weddings soon and just wondering. So far I've gotten good light at the receptions and have been able to keep the ISO at 1600 and 1/50 or so shutter (at the weddings I practice at).

[tim]

Nice thread Tim. What about large receptions? I'm always at wedding with buildings that act as huge rooms because that's how the Slavic speaking community likes it--with hundreds of guests. Lol, talk about a pain. I might help out in some weddings soon and just wondering. So far I've gotten good light at the receptions and have been able to keep the ISO at 1600 and 1/50 or so shutter (at the weddings I practice at).

If I photographed receptions like that regularly i'd probably use four studio strobes. I could manage with two though, with careful placing, and moving them if I need to highlight different parts of the room. You could use two strobes as room lights and two smaller lights for things like cake cutting, dancing, etc.

I love strobes when I have space for them, they have power to burn and recharge so quickly.

[SuperHuman21]

Gotcha. I guess the huge receptions would have no problem with strobes in terms of being obtrusive.
I know that since I don't have an external flash and I have to help out my new contact then I'll most likely bring two strobes or my third as well as the D90 is on a whole different level in terms of ISO compared to D700. I guess it'd look fine printed at 1600 but I strive for better than fine (if any of my shots ever do get printed).

Actually, until I get PW's or something I just need to hope for decent lighting and use ISO 1600.

[tim]

If you light a reception then you'll rarely go over ISO800, unless you're trying to capture a lot of ambient light. Having a crop body with more DOF is actually an advantage when you're shooting on an angle at the head table at 200mm. You usually want more than one person in focus, and with a full frame body you need F8 or even F12 for that.

[SuperHuman21]

Makes sense. Glad I don't have FF then. I did notice that I get a fairly good amount of focus at the infinity range with my lens. Composition sucked as it's all I had but good otherwise. Looking for a RAW product, lol, my trials have run out on Capture NX2 and Lightroom.

[jwicaksana]

thanks for posting this..

[Methodical]

Tim, what zoom do you typically have the 580s set too?

[tim]

35mm. Go on, ask me why. Why? Ok, i'll tell you. Just because. No good reason.

Really though, it varies a little depending on the room. For really tall rooms i'd use 105mm, for really small i'd use 24mm, for most i'd use around 35mm. I don't know if it makes a significant difference, but I just work out what area of the ceiling I want the light to come from, sight it through a lens (or guess), and set the zoom.

Try it out for yourself and see if it makes any difference.

[Methodical]

Tim, do you put in any FEC?

[tim]

I think you need to learn about how flash works. When flashes are on standard radio slaves they're on manual power, so FEC doesn't affect them. This is an advantage, as then you have consistent exposures, so long as you wait for them to recharge. This means you can batch process them images quite quickly.

If you're using the expensive radio slaves that do wireless radio ETTL then you can use FEC. However I suggest manual unless you have a really good reason to use ettl.

[S-Man]

Something else I've figured out in the past year- If you're using OCF, say a couple of 430's or 580's for a reception, it's much better to use manual.
I used to use ETTL using either a 580 to trigger, or the ST-E2, but many times it would be inconsistent, and the flash took much longer to recharge.
When I switched to manual, I'll put them on like, 1/32 or 1/64 (depending on size of venue) and then you can adjust the camera (aperture and ISO) to taste. Plus, you can pop off multiple flashes before they need time to re-charge.

I could be wrong, but I think the cause of this is with ETTL, it does a pre-flash to meter, then flashes again for the photo, causing batteries to drain faster, and using too much power on the pre-flash, it doesn't have enough juice to pop what it needs for the photo. amidoinitright?

[tim]

Nope. The preflash is really low power, 1/32nd or so from memory, and doesn't really affect the main flash. Given the same light output recharge time is pretty much the same.

The problem with ETTL is it's inconsistent. Shoot a head table, reframe to get more or less white in the shot, and the power output changes. That means editing every single image individually. With manual you can edit the images as a batch, quick and easy.

If you want faster recharge use 5X0 units and the battery packs I link to in the first post of the thread. I wouldn't use a speedlite without a battery pack in this situation, I have battery packs for all four flashes. I use my AlienBees on 1/4 or 1/8 if space permits, still plenty of light compared with a speedlite and instant recharge.

[tolyD]

Tim, in this setup how much do you zoom in the speedlite head or do you keep it wide at 24mm? thanks

[Luz]

Tim, what zoom do you typically have the 580s set too?

35mm. Go on, ask me why. Why? Ok, i'll tell you. Just because. No good reason.

Really though, it varies a little depending on the room. For really tall rooms i'd use 105mm, for really small i'd use 24mm, for most i'd use around 35mm. I don't know if it makes a significant difference, but I just work out what area of the ceiling I want the light to come from, sight it through a lens (or guess), and set the zoom.

Try it out for yourself and see if it makes any difference.

...

[tolyD]

...

thanks, i should've searched better

[tim]

Tim, in this setup how much do you zoom in the speedlite head or do you keep it wide at 24mm? thanks

I doesn't make much difference, unless it's a really high ceiling, in which case I zoom the head quite a bit.

[tolyD]

I doesn't make much difference, unless it's a really high ceiling, in which case I zoom the head quite a bit.

I see, the one ill be shooting at this weekend has about two story high ceiling. so i guess i will have to zoom it in tight if im going to bounce it. I hope that works. thanks Tim.

[tim]

I see, the one ill be shooting at this weekend has about two story high ceiling. so i guess i will have to zoom it in tight if im going to bounce it. I hope that works. thanks Tim.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't rely on it. If I know the ceiling's that high in advance i'll take my AB800s and use those instead, with bigger venues the power of studio lights really come into their own, and there's more space to put them too.

[tolyD]

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't rely on it. If I know the ceiling's that high in advance i'll take my AB800s and use those instead, with bigger venues the power of studio lights really come into their own, and there's more space to put them too.

Yeah I see what you mean, I wish I had more pwerfull strobes then my speedlites. Since I dont have that I'll have to work with what I got and hope for the best.

[SuperHuman21]

I have a question about studio strobes Tim. I shot an event in a church with my strobes and couldn't help but wonder if pros ever use them in weddings because the flashes from them can be a little annoying. Do you dial down the power of them to avoid this, do you place them strategically to lessen the impact of the flashes or what? Thanks!

[tolyD]

Use higher ISO and wider aperture then you can turn down the flash output.

[tim]

I have a question about studio strobes Tim. I shot an event in a church with my strobes and couldn't help but wonder if pros ever use them in weddings because the flashes from them can be a little annoying. Do you dial down the power of them to avoid this, do you place them strategically to lessen the impact of the flashes or what? Thanks!

I don't use flash in churches. Well, once in 120 weddings. I only use strobes at big reception venues, where they're not too intrusive.

I dial the strobes back to 1/4 or 1/8 and use higher ISO, mostly because it helps capture more ambient lighting effects.

[jb_browneyes]

All I can say is WOW! Thank you for all of that Tim. I will remember that. You are amazing

[tim]

You are amazing

Yes I am, aren't I? ;)

[reyces]

Amazing explanation and great set up! :)

Thanks

[Arman's Photography]

Wow, lots to read, I just did it. Great topic, Tim you have helped a lot! Now I need to spend some more money :)

[bluelight]

Have a related question, I am shooting a small (very small wedding) they are planning to do the reception in a small room in a hotel (semi private dining area) three sides are glass :( and cieling is black. so it will be a dark room. fourth side is half open for enterance :(
How would u light such a place?

[Arman's Photography]

Have a related question, I am shooting a small (very small wedding) they are planning to do the reception in a small room in a hotel (semi private dining area) three sides are glass :( and cieling is black. so it will be a dark room. fourth side is half open for enterance :(
How would u light such a place?
Wow ceiling is black? Just one tip from me,then Tim :) don't bounce your light off the ceiling then :) try using the walls , column etc. Or just get me to Dubai and i will help you :)

[tim]

Have a related question, I am shooting a small (very small wedding) they are planning to do the reception in a small room in a hotel (semi private dining area) three sides are glass :( and cieling is black. so it will be a dark room. fourth side is half open for enterance :(
How would u light such a place?

I assume you mean room lighting. For individuals i'd have an assistant with a soft box.

Black ceilings often reflect light fine, so get in there and try it first.

Next idea is i'd put three speedlites on stands in corners on the glass sites, shooting direct, low power.

Next option is on camera flash bounced off above/behind you.

Last option is high iso/wide apertures, with perhaps some direct fill flash, or even direct flash.

Tough one though. I'd warn people in advance the photos will only be ok, because the location isn't great. Still, even direct flash or half direct half bounced high ISO will be better than anyone else can do.

[TheBrick3]

You can bounce it off the floor. But sometimes, even often, that works less than great.

[jb_browneyes]

Yes I am, aren't I? ;)

Yep! (and humble to boot... lol )

[tim]

You can bounce it off the floor. But sometimes, even often, that works less than great.

That will give you a weird color cast, and a very weird light direction. I wouldn't recommend this.

Yep! (and humble to boot... lol )

Don't worry about that, I have plenty of humble, just a bit less so in the online persona.

[Luz]

Obviously can't have them just follow you around, but when they happen to be near, you can bounce off people in white shirts. Softer light from the... larger... guests.

Only partially kidding, I have done this before.

[bluelight]

Thank you will give it a try starting with bounce it first and last would be to do direct fill flash.

Have dealt with really dark places but black cieing bounce never.

[tolyD]

hey Tim I used this setup few weeks ago at the reception and I got tons of red eyes, is there a trick to avoid this?? I also used oncamera flash for fill.

[tim]

hey Tim I used this setup few weeks ago at the reception and I got tons of red eyes, is there a trick to avoid this?? I also used oncamera flash for fill.

Direct flash causes red eye. Bounce your fill. I've never gotten red eye with this setup.

[tolyD]

Direct flash causes red eye. Bounce your fill. I've never gotten red eye with this setup.

Oh I see. In my case I couldn't bounce, walls were too far away and ceiling was way too high

[jb_browneyes]

So Tim, I only have 1 580exII. But I do have 2 White Lightning 1600 and 2VB minis on ridiculously tall stands. How would you change this set up if you were using that equipment? Would you use Umbrellas? and shoot through, or bounce up? I try not to shoot to many weddings, but it would be good info to know.

[tim]

So Tim, I only have 1 580exII. But I do have 2 White Lightning 1600 and 2VB minis on ridiculously tall stands. How would you change this set up if you were using that equipment? Would you use Umbrellas? and shoot through, or bounce up? I try not to shoot to many weddings, but it would be good info to know.

Just replace the 580s on stands with your WLs. No other changes to how I do things are required. I do the same thing, ABs instead of 580s quite often. 580 goes on camera, as fill or an extra light.

Strobes bounced off the ceiling, usually from near the back of the room as they're large and intrusive. Umbrellas are also too intrusive IMHO. I'd rather shoot direct with speedlites. Umbrellas make little difference when distances are more than a few meters, just a slight softening of shadows.

[jb_browneyes]

Just replace the 580s on stands with your WLs. No other changes to how I do things are required. I do the same thing, ABs instead of 580s quite often. 580 goes on camera, as fill or an extra light.

Strobes bounced off the ceiling, usually from near the back of the room as they're large and intrusive. Umbrellas are also too intrusive IMHO. I'd rather shoot direct with speedlites. Umbrellas make little difference when distances are more than a few meters, just a slight softening of shadows.

thanks

[wernersl]

good write up. i dont think ive stumbled onto this thread in the past. i use a similar method but typically direct fire opposite corners of the dance floor. here a a two shot pano of the last wedding to show the setup.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/wernersl/POTN%20uploads/Reception_pano_web.jpg

the flash on the right was setup near the cake so i could do this...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/wernersl/POTN%20uploads/20110903_1017_web.jpg

i use Nikon SB-24's usually around 1/16 power triggered with cybersyncs. i keep a 580ex on camera bounced with the card to fill in faces. works quite well. youll notice two flashes on the stand. there is one for me and one for the other shooter on different channels. keeps it consistent.

[tim]

I can't see your images at work, aggressive blocking going on here.

I use one channel and battery packs, with the flashes at between 1/16 and 1/4, so they can handle two photographers both using them.

[wernersl]

I can't see your images at work, aggressive blocking going on here.

I use one channel and battery packs, with the flashes at between 1/16 and 1/4, so they can handle two photographers both using them.
I thought about that but didn't want any issues with both of us shooting at the same time, or burning up flash heads. Besides SB-24s are like 50 to 70 bucks. Cheap!

[tim]

I use Canon flashes with Canon battery packs, for reliability. I had some cheap flashes but the recharge time was too slow for me, plus after I added a home made battery pack to the cheap flash one almost caught fire.

[wernersl]

I use Canon flashes with Canon battery packs, for reliability. I had some cheap flashes but the recharge time was too slow for me, plus after I added a home made battery pack to the cheap flash one almost caught fire.
the sb-24s work like a champ. fast cycle times. built in PC socket. built in optical slave. just wish they went below 1/16 power. oh well. 50 - 70 bucks each...well worth it. btw...they are pretty much bullet proof as well.

[tim]

I often use 1/4 or 1/2 power, so a modern flash with a battery pack is pretty much necessary for me. I prefer the studio strobes, but they're too large to use at most weddings.

[wernersl]

I often use 1/4 or 1/2 power, so a modern flash with a battery pack is pretty much necessary for me. I prefer the studio strobes, but they're too large to use at most weddings.
This is true. Ive been to weddings where the togs lug strobes. ive also seen the result. nothing that couldnt have been accomplished with a speedlite. in fact...they seemed to waste a bit too much time setting up! good thing i was there to enjoy myself!

one more for the cheap seats...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/wernersl/POTN%20uploads/20110903_0958_web-1.jpg

[tim]

Strobes give you more power which is great for big venues, fast recharge times, and consistent exposures. If you need lots of light, either to get a decent DOF or lower ISO, then strobes are the way to go. I'd use them at every wedding if they were smaller, but they're too large and intrusive.

[wernersl]

Strobes give you more power which is great for big venues, fast recharge times, and consistent exposures. If you need lots of light, either to get a decent DOF or lower ISO, then strobes are the way to go. I'd use them at every wedding if they were smaller, but they're too large and intrusive.
i suppose if i were in a situation with a huge venue, then i would drag em out. otherwise they stay home. either way ya go...beats trying to wrestle simply ambient. it has made my reception workflow so much faster and easier...and more consistent.

[tim]

Yeah my reception photos are processed in big batches, they need almost no attention.

[nicksan]

This is true. Ive been to weddings where the togs lug strobes. ive also seen the result. nothing that couldnt have been accomplished with a speedlite. in fact...they seemed to waste a bit too much time setting up! good thing i was there to enjoy myself!



Don't know about that. Takes about the same time to prop up some strobes. You get unlimited power, faster recycle times, etc. I have a Vegabond Mini that allows me to put the strobe wherever I want.

Unless the venue is tiny, I'll always use my strobes.

[wernersl]

Don't know about that. Takes about the same time to prop up some strobes. You get unlimited power, faster recycle times, etc. I have a Vegabond Mini that allows me to put the strobe wherever I want.

Unless the venue is tiny, I'll always use my strobes.
hey if it works for you and you are efficient with them...great. like tim said, for the most part they are a bit large for me, especially in most of the venues ive shot in. not saying im very seasoned, but ive found my lil noinks work for me thus far. that said, i do have a few strobes lying around if duty calls. by the way nick...love your work. youre also a huge help on this forum.

[nicksan]

hey if it works for you and you are efficient with them...great. like tim said, for the most part they are a bit large for me, especially in most of the venues ive shot in. not saying im very seasoned, but ive found my lil noinks work for me thus far. that said, i do have a few strobes lying around if duty calls. by the way nick...love your work. youre also a huge help on this forum.

Yeah, I feel that it takes about the same time. If you think about it, the only variable is the speedlight/strobe. Everything else is the same. Maybe you need heavy duty stands for the strobes, but still, that shouldn't make too much of a different. Lugging all this stuff around? Hell yeah...it's a lot more to carry! :)

[wernersl]

Yeah, I feel that it takes about the same time. If you think about it, the only variable is the speedlight/strobe. Everything else is the same. Maybe you need heavy duty stands for the strobes, but still, that shouldn't make too much of a different. Lugging all this stuff around? Hell yeah...it's a lot more to carry! :)
thats for sure. all four noinks, triggers and batteries, plus meter fit in my little dakine photo insert (from my backpack). nice light-weight package.

question though, and its one ive been struggling with. would you consider it a bad thing when the strobes make an appearance in the image? happens often. maybe i need to place myself better to avoid it but i tend to try and pay attention to what is unfolding and get the best possible angle for the shot, not thinking about the strobes. with my previous examples as reference, along with this...what say you?

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/wernersl/POTN%20uploads/20110903_0746_web.jpg

[tim]

I prefer not to have strobes or stands in reception images, but sometimes it can't be helped. I rarely shoot direct, I don't like the harsh shadows, I bounce, which is why I need more power than you.

[wernersl]

I prefer not to have strobes or stands in reception images, but sometimes it can't be helped. I rarely shoot direct, I don't like the harsh shadows, I bounce, which is why I need more power than you.
that would be why for sure. forgot about that in your first post. well so far even having off camera strobes has really kicked up my reception quality. now i need to start working out the kinks. i know where i can improve and learning more with each one. that combined with this place, has really upped my game.

[tim]

I hate shadows on walls, and I did it horribly at my last wedding, just of the head table. Too much direct flash hit them.

I'm going to get a couple of black foamy things (http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/11/21/the-black-foamie-thing/) as soon as I can find the right material in NZ. They basically make all the light bounce, and none go direct.

[wernersl]

I hate shadows on walls, and I did it horribly at my last wedding, just of the head table. Too much direct flash hit them.

I'm going to get a couple of black foamy things (http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/11/21/the-black-foamie-thing/) as soon as I can find the right material in NZ. They basically make all the light bounce, and none go direct.
very interesting. are you talking about flagging your off camera strobes as well? only thing i would worry about there is the amount of power you will lose. of course it opens up the possibility of using larger apertures. wish i had uninterupted access to some of these places to experiment more.

but yeah i hate wall shadows as well. a big pitfall to my direct OCF. they work well like that for dancing, but thats about it. guess thats why i love this stuff. it is a real challenge.

[tim]

Pretty much, yeah. Just something to ensure no light goes directly to the subject, that it all bounces. I don't want to focus the light into too small an area though, that'll make spotlights even bounced.

[Sylvester XxX]

Pretty much, yeah. Just something to ensure no light goes directly to the subject, that it all bounces. I don't want to focus the light into too small an area though, that'll make spotlights even bounced.

Strobes with reflectors do this quite well for me.

Have you look at the Elinchrom Quadra Ranger? It is not much bigger than a 580.

I went to four strobes at a reception which pretty much sorted the wall shadows.
Great advice in the thread, thanks.

[nicksan]

thats for sure. all four noinks, triggers and batteries, plus meter fit in my little dakine photo insert (from my backpack). nice light-weight package.

question though, and its one ive been struggling with. would you consider it a bad thing when the strobes make an appearance in the image? happens often. maybe i need to place myself better to avoid it but i tend to try and pay attention to what is unfolding and get the best possible angle for the shot, not thinking about the strobes. with my previous examples as reference, along with this...what say you?


It depends I suppose. Here's one where you can see it. I had the 580EXII turned off on my camera to get this look.

http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0218_1206.jpg

I try not to get the light stand in the frame...but honestly, sometimes you just can't help it.

Here's another one with the strobe in the frame...
http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0218_0881.jpg

[wernersl]

really like the second shot. assume the shoe flash is on for that. what power level are you using on the OC 580 for that shot? you using just one or do you have another set up somewhere. i like those a lot. another internal debate...balance with ambient or just plain kill it.

[nicksan]

really like the second shot. assume the shoe flash is on for that. what power level are you using on the OC 580 for that shot? you using just one or do you have another set up somewhere. i like those a lot. another internal debate...balance with ambient or just plain kill it.

Yup, the shot flash was on for that one.

I don't use OC 580. I use an Einstein and AB800. They are usually about 1/8...probably even lower...like 1/16. Baseline reading of f2.8, 1/160, ISO800.

I've been killing the ambient and lighting the venue up with my strobes.

[sdipirro]

Just to make sure I'm understanding what you mean by "baseline reading," is this the meter reading you're getting with just your two strobes firing? I'm shooting a wedding in a week (first time), and I'll have two 600RX strobes in the reception hall and a 580EX on a flash bracket on the camera. I'll be able to use just the strobes, strobes and flash together, just the flash, or no flash. I've been trying to decide on a reasonable base reading for just the two strobes alone (that will be bounced off an 8-foot ceiling). I was thinking I'd need more flash power from the strobes than what you're saying here. So I'm curious why you choose that base reading.

[wernersl]

Just to make sure I'm understanding what you mean by "baseline reading," is this the meter reading you're getting with just your two strobes firing? I'm shooting a wedding in a week (first time), and I'll have two 600RX strobes in the reception hall and a 580EX on a flash bracket on the camera. I'll be able to use just the strobes, strobes and flash together, just the flash, or no flash. I've been trying to decide on a reasonable base reading for just the two strobes alone (that will be bounced off an 8-foot ceiling). I was thinking I'd need more flash power from the strobes than what you're saying here. So I'm curious why you choose that base reading.
it looks like iso 800 f/2.8 1/160 would kill all ambient (his goal) and give him a low enough usable power level on the strobes to light the venue and keep recycle times down. just a guess as to how he came up with that base line. i was using iso 1600 f/7.1 1/8 for two reasons: 1. im an idiot. 2. i wanted to allow some ambient to show (light streaks) as well as allow flash to freeze motion. had i used my pea brain i could have gotten down to iso 200, 1/8 at f/3.5 and achieve the same goal (if i did my math correctly). that would have cut a lot of noise that i had to kill in post. but again, im an idiot and wasnt thinking.


edited to add image for example:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/wernersl/POTN%20uploads/20110903_1122_web.jpg

[nicksan]

Just to make sure I'm understanding what you mean by "baseline reading," is this the meter reading you're getting with just your two strobes firing? I'm shooting a wedding in a week (first time), and I'll have two 600RX strobes in the reception hall and a 580EX on a flash bracket on the camera. I'll be able to use just the strobes, strobes and flash together, just the flash, or no flash. I've been trying to decide on a reasonable base reading for just the two strobes alone (that will be bounced off an 8-foot ceiling). I was thinking I'd need more flash power from the strobes than what you're saying here. So I'm curious why you choose that base reading.

Yup, that's what I meant. I target for f2.8 1/160 ISO800. The Cyber Commander has a built-in light meter so I use that to take a reading, then remotely adjust the power until I get to my target levels. Keep in mind I've been using the flash pointed directly at the dance floor since bouncing haven't been an option so far. Perhaps that's why I am able to keep the power so low. I also use the 580EXII mounted on my camera's hot shot for fill and have a CST attached to the 580EXII via Velcro with PC Sync cable connected to the camera.

I am sure I will need to dial up the power when I bounce. Might be this weekend because I am pretty sure the venue has white ceilings and walls...can't remember. I'll try to take some setup shots, etc, to better explain.

it looks like iso 800 f/2.8 1/160 would kill all ambient (his goal) and give him a low enough usable power level on the strobes to light the venue and keep recycle times down. just a guess as to how he came up with that base line. i was using iso 1600 f/7.1 1/8 for two reasons: 1. im an idiot. 2. i wanted to allow some ambient to show (light streaks) as well as allow flash to freeze motion. had i used my pea brain i could have gotten down to iso 200, 1/8 at f/3.5 and achieve the same goal (if i did my math correctly). that would have cut a lot of noise that i had to kill in post. but again, im an idiot and wasnt thinking.


Yup. That was the idea. There's really not a right or wrong and I am still experimenting with all this myself. I mean, the 5D2 looks great at ISO1600, but if I had a choice between that and ISO800, or even lower using my primes, then yeah, I would rather have that.

Here's a shot at f2.8, about 1 second, ISO200. Just playing around with zooming in during the shot.
http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0218_0909.jpg

Here's a regular shot...again...lit by 2 strobes and 580EXII on-camera for fill.
http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0218_1296.jpg

Another one...
http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0218_0737.jpg

[wernersl]

Yup, that's what I meant. I target for f2.8 1/160 ISO800. The Cyber Commander has a built-in light meter so I use that to take a reading, then remotely adjust the power until I get to my target levels. Keep in mind I've been using the flash pointed directly at the dance floor since bouncing haven't been an option so far. Perhaps that's why I am able to keep the power so low. I also use the 580EXII mounted on my camera's hot shot for fill and have a CST attached to the 580EXII via Velcro with PC Sync cable connected to the camera.

I am sure I will need to dial up the power when I bounce. Might be this weekend because I am pretty sure the venue has white ceilings and walls...can't remember. I'll try to take some setup shots, etc, to better explain.



Yup. That was the idea. There's really not a right or wrong and I am still experimenting with all this myself. I mean, the 5D2 looks great at ISO1600, but if I had a choice between that and ISO800, or even lower using my primes, then yeah, I would rather have that.

Here's a shot at f2.8, about 1 second, ISO200. Just playing around with zooming in during the shot.
http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0218_0909.jpg

Here's a regular shot...again...lit by 2 strobes and 580EXII on-camera for fill.


Another one...

yeah the 5dI not as clean but still usable. my shot just above was 1/8 and a quick zoom during exposure time. for your image, nick, if you dont mind my saying so...could be onto something really cool. i think if you were to dial back on exposure, cool down the temp a tad and bump the blacks a touch it would be a little more balanced. white shirts are a bit hot in this one. which lens btw?

[nicksan]

yeah the 5dI not as clean but still usable. my shot just above was 1/8 and a quick zoom during exposure time. for your image, nick, if you dont mind my saying so...could be onto something really cool. i think if you were to dial back on exposure, cool down the temp a tad and bump the blacks a touch it would be a little more balanced. white shirts are a bit hot in this one. which lens btw?

Yeah, I was just playing around with this. Not something I would typically do or even use...but you know how wedding receptions can get. :lol:

I used the 16-35L MKII for this shot. I've been using that lens a lot at receptions.

[wernersl]

Yeah, I was just playing around with this. Not something I would typically do or even use...but you know how wedding receptions can get. :lol:

I used the 16-35L MKII for this shot. I've been using that lens a lot at receptions.
yeah ultrawide is how ive been rollin lately. tamron 17-35 for me. very affordable alternative, plenty sharp and killer colors out of the gate. just wish it wasnt a 2.8-4 variable aperture. shoulda picked one and built to it. but hey...gets what i need.

just on camera for this one. dont know why i didnt use the strobes at this reception. i will say that this venue totally sucked though. but i wont get into that here.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/wernersl/POTN%20uploads/IMG_5529_web.jpg

[nicksan]

Yeah, for dancing shots, I like the 16-35. For speeches, I go with the 50L, or the 70-200 f2.8 IS MKII. First dance = 85 1.8.

Sometimes, I go available light...

Example:
http://www.nicknphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/0222_1171.jpg

[sdipirro]

In my case, the reception hall has 8' white ceilings,and the walls were pretty neutral too, with white drapes across the windows. Seemed like bouncing the strobes would be the way to go. I figured I'd concentrate on getting the dance floor and head table lit the way I want and will rely on the 580EX more for other areas.

Now you have me rethinking the lens selection. I was thinking about leaving the 16-35 at home and bringing the 24-70, 50L, and 70-200 II. Think I'd regret not being able to go wider than 24mm (on a 1.3 crop)?

[nicksan]

In my case, the reception hall has 8' white ceilings,and the walls were pretty neutral too, with white drapes across the windows. Seemed like bouncing the strobes would be the way to go. I figured I'd concentrate on getting the dance floor and head table lit the way I want and will rely on the 580EX more for other areas.

Now you have me rethinking the lens selection. I was thinking about leaving the 16-35 at home and bringing the 24-70, 50L, and 70-200 II. Think I'd regret not being able to go wider than 24mm (on a 1.3 crop)?

If I only had 1.3x crop bodies, I would definitely bring the 16-35 with me.

[wernersl]

If I only had 1.3x crop bodies, I would definitely bring the 16-35 with me.
for sure. what he said. could always keep the wide on one body and fast prime on another