Interested in breaking into Band photography...

[dital]

What would be the 'normal' way to get a photo pass for gigs? Should I be contacting the bands, promoters, venues - who?

Anyone reading with any experience in this kind of photography I would really like to hear form you.

Many Thanks,

Devs.

[sspellman]

Devs-

There are many smaller bands performing at small clubs where you will not need a photo pass. Start by going to the clubs, taking pictures, and networking with smaller acts. As you build a good portfolio, you will be ready to start working with larger bands, local record labels & venues, and small magazines in town to work your way up to larger acts. Get business cards with your pictures and a website and pass them out everywhere. Building your skills in promo photography will help you make connections and seperate yourself from the many other concert shooters out there. This business works on connections, and there are no shortcuts to building your network.

-Scott

[MJPhotos24]

You need an outlet, simple as that. All the passes I got back when shooting bands regularly were through the record label to get approved, venues rarely had anything to do with it though sure some promoters do take care of it for local media they know. The smaller bands were often through the bands themselves as I rarely shot them and working with a label back then it was easy to know who were the up and comers.

If you don't have an outlet (newspaper, magazine, etc) to shoot for you honestly have no right having a pass. It annoyed the hell out of me on a few tours that "friends" of the band or security or whoever were clogging up the photo pit getting in the way of professionals trying to make a living. Complaints kept streaming in with a couple bands managers from news outlets and finally it was stopped.

So find an outlet, and that could be a magazine, newspaper, the band itself, the label, the venue, anyone. Find an outlet that will pay - do not trade access for images, it won't help you at ALL! It'd be smarter to find smaller bands willing to pay and practice on then shooting bigger shows just to not pay for a ticket. Also, most bands allow people to show up and take images from the crowd but make sure first. I've been to a few shows that cameras were not allowed, even though I was working for the groups manager the road manager told me no photos allowed! I explained that the person who pays her check asked me to come shoot and still, nope. She had security rip the film out of a fans camera (I woulda sued if they did that). So make sure before you go gun ho shooting.

Scott brings up a very good point, learn promo photography! When receiving a promo package one of the first thing's I'd tell a band is hire a photographer to take good images! The crap they sent out to "sell" themselves was pathetic for small bands. Cater yourself to shooting promo and live shots all in one shoot for a day fee with certain usage and that will help big time.

[Alleh]

The people I know that are pretty successful (get their photos in Rolling Stone of a regular basis) really just lived the lifestyle. If you are already going to all the concerts just bring your camera. Once you start to get some cool shots set up a site then when you are going to a show or if there are shows you want into contact whoever you can that is involved and try and work something out. Maybe offer trade for backstage etc. The idea is to make a name for yourself in that community then people will start to contact you.

[PhotosGuy]

Take heart! Even Dwight had to start somewhere! ;)
This is how Dwight McCann Started Concert Photography! (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=241704)

Concert Photography Tips: A FAQ Perhaps (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226809)

Night Club Photography Tips and Techniques (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=432658)

Concert, Stage, and Low-Light Photography (http://photo.net/learn/concerts/mirarchi/concer_i) A Tutorial by Steve Mirarchi

Behind the scenes Band shoots (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=604231)

[ChrisRabior]

The idea is to make a name for yourself in that community then people will start to contact you.

Just make sure that the name you make for yourself isn't that you'll shoot for free.

I'm all for giving out a small web-res image with my watermark for a band's myspace, but it ends there. 90% of the time, the mere mention of a price will sway most inquiries away. The other 10% are a mix of those who love your work but are truly too broke to afford you, love your work but are too cheap to realize how much it could help them, or love your work and are willing to pay you for it.

A big problem you'll be sure to run into is that for every 1 good band photographer who is worth their price tag, there are dozens of other photographers (some of which are even quite talented) who blissfully volunteer their images for free in return for access.

IF you have a publication of some sort to back up your request for access, it's a lot easier. If you don't, then you need to start small. As many have said, start local. Get yourself in with a local venue that hosts a lot of local shows, get to be on a first name basis with the owners and staff, and make it your second home. You'll soon find the more talented bands are often chosen to open up for national tours. Basically, make lots of connections and use them to work your way up, hone your skills, and become a face that people start to recognize.

[saintredrocket]

Excellent suggestions.

[Jim G]

A big problem you'll be sure to run into is that for every 1 good band photographer who is worth their price tag, there are dozens of other photographers (some of which are even quite talented) who blissfully volunteer their images for free in return for access.

Possibly the #1 problem, at least when you first enter the industry. It's very hard to convince a publication to pay you when they can get just as good or a little bit worse shots for free, particularly when you're not known. Most of the people I know who've started at the bottom and worked up have worked for free to start with... breaking out of that free cycle can be hard, especially in small cities.

Whether starting for free or not is good for you or the industry as a whole, however, is an entirely different debate..... just making the point ;)

[Gentleman Villain]

My friend Ric knows a band photographer that was pretty popular with the early 80s rocks bands. I'm not sure....but I don't think he ever made much money shooting the bands. Most of his money was made working for the companies that endorsed them. He did a lot of advertising shoots for the companies that made the instruments, amps, merchandise surround the band etc.

From what I understand....he used his band photography to make money in advertising but didn''t really make money from shooting the bands themselves.

Bands just don't have money....up-n-coming bands are often really poor and many of hte signed acts don't actually have much control over their finances. If you love music...and can spot a good act...and have rapport....It might not be reasonable to expect to make a lot of money off of the actual band photography. However, good shots of famous bands and up-n-coming bands can be your foot in the door for other work.

I'm also familiar with another photographer that shot a lot of the alternative rock bands of Seattle scene. I don't think he ever made much money doing the album covers and magazine editorials...BUT...his celebrity band photography got him other gigs as a photojournalist and he also sells his celebrity band photographs in gallery shows around the world. He also had a book published with his work.

Just thought I'd throw those ideas out there...IF I were going into band photography ...then I'd approach it as if I weren't going to make any money from the actual bands themselves...but use the access to the bands and the portfolio created to get other jobs in advertising, editorial etc. And if the musicians happen to become famous then the photographs can always sell in galleries or can be licensed as stock or whatever. SO basically, I'd shoot the bands for relatively free just to get access....and worry about making money off the photographs in other ways....That's just me though good luck with your pursuit

[ChrisRabior]

Bands just don't have money....up-n-coming bands are often really poor and many of hte signed acts don't actually have much control over their finances.

Yet nobody finds any harm filling the tank with $50 worth of gas, or dropping several thousand dollars on equipment to be able to play gigs. That's the attitude that makes concert photography a dying business. Bands have money. If they had no money, how could they afford to play in a band? $50-100 is not much to ask for photos from a live set, particularly when there's virtually no post processing required if you knew what you were doing in the first place, and it's a deal for the band if you really think about it.

Just consider this: If you shot something and someone was just thrilled to death about a single shot you got, how much would you license it for? $10? $25? $50? $100? A band that pays for a photographer will generally get a full set worth of images for what could average out to around $1 a shot. Yeah, highway robbery!


I'd approach it as if I weren't going to make any money from the actual bands themselves...but use the access to the bands and the portfolio created to get other jobs in advertising, editorial etc. And if the musicians happen to become famous then the photographs can always sell in galleries or can be licensed as stock or whatever. SO basically, I'd shoot the bands for relatively free just to get access....and worry about making money off the photographs in other ways

You would think so wouldn't you? Sadly, a very impoverished future awaits with that logic. A major trend is that many bands/venues/managers/etc will want to have you sign these wonderful little contracts that allow a one time use by your publication, and portfolio use for the photographer, but absolutely no right to sell or license the images ever again. Obviously, if nobody signed them, they'd go away, but just as before.. for every 1 that refuses, there are dozens who would be ecstatic to gain entry to the pit for a national act and even a few willing to PAY for that opportunity.

[MJPhotos24]

Yet nobody finds any harm filling the tank with $50 worth of gas, or dropping several thousand dollars on equipment to be able to play gigs. That's the attitude that makes concert photography a dying business. Bands have money. If they had no money, how could they afford to play in a band? $50-100 is not much to ask for photos from a live set, particularly when there's virtually no post processing required if you knew what you were doing in the first place, and it's a deal for the band if you really think about it.

This is HIGHLY dependent on the band and label, I know many who could barely afford the gas to get to shows when it was $20 to fill the tank. The bands that bring people should have a guarantee from the venue that can pay you to come shoot. The small indie bands that struggle to bring people on the other hand may not have much cash. Most are working crappy day jobs to play at night and there deal with venues is usually different, percentage of the door usually so if nobody shows tough luck on getting paid. A guy I still keep in touch with from when I worked in the music business is still working random day jobs even though his band is "taking off". His band however pays for images even though not loaded, they save up for things to do things right by working those day jobs and shows.

Just consider this: If you shot something and someone was just thrilled to death about a single shot you got, how much would you license it for? $10? $25? $50? $100? A band that pays for a photographer will generally get a full set worth of images for what could average out to around $1 a shot. Yeah, highway robbery!
It's amazing that's the mind set of a lot of people isn't it?

You would think so wouldn't you? Sadly, a very impoverished future awaits with that logic. A major trend is that many bands/venues/managers/etc will want to have you sign these wonderful little contracts that allow a one time use by your publication, and portfolio use for the photographer, but absolutely no right to sell or license the images ever again. Obviously, if nobody signed them, they'd go away, but just as before.. for every 1 that refuses, there are dozens who would be ecstatic to gain entry to the pit for a national act and even a few willing to PAY for that opportunity.
Very true, I had one of those contracts put in front of my face once and refused to sign it. 3/4 bands that night didn't have the contract, just the co-headliner. Hell, after that I stopped listening to them!

[ChrisRabior]

I just stumbled on this, and laughed.. as it definitely applies here somewhat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
It's about a writer and his dealings with Warner Brothers, and what happened when they asked to use his interview on their DVD and he asks for payment. His take on it is the attitude that photographers all need to develop. Heads up, the guy doesn't hold back and there's a few select words.. might need earmuffs for the young'ns =)

[Gentleman Villain]

ah...now I get it...I've always wondered why aspiring photographers seem to have this sense of entitlement about getting paid. It's as if they don't really understand how business works. This is not unique to POTN and it seems to be an attitude that is present everywhere. I've seen that author video before from posts in other forums (that were popular) and realize that what is going on is that photographers are thinking like union members instead of small business owners. That's why all of the arguments about getting paid come from positions of group victimization instead of truly understanding the business circumstances surrounding the specialized field. Successful photographers don't think like employees...they think like small independent business people. Bullying tactics don't work. Screaming and complaining don't work. Empty declarations of "I'm worth something pay me" don't work. That's exactly the reason that so many people are failing to make money. It's kind of funny actually that people think photographers are like union members. Thanks...I never really made this direct connection before but it explains everything....too many photographers are approaching business from the POV of a group victim and that's why they can't figure out how to make money. It's kind of funny actually. It's a system of thought that is preventing them from getting paid...nothing else. They are trapped in their own entitlement dogma. OR maybe I just wrote all of this as a joke just to provoke a reaction and don't believe any of it actually.

[bacchanal]

ah...now I get it...I've always wondered why aspiring photographers seem to have this sense of entitlement about getting paid. It's as if they don't really understand how business works. This is not unique to POTN and it seems to be an attitude that is present everywhere. I've seen that author video before from posts in other forums (that were popular) and realize that what is going on is that photographers are thinking like union members instead of small business owners. That's why all of the arguments about getting paid come from positions of group victimization instead of truly understanding the business circumstances surrounding the specialized field. Successful photographers don't think like employees...they think like small independent business people. Bullying tactics don't work. Screaming and complaining don't work. Empty declarations of "I'm worth something pay me" don't work. That's exactly the reason that so many people are failing to make money. It's kind of funny actually that people think photographers are like union members. Thanks...I never really made this direct connection before but it explains everything....too many photographers are approaching business from the POV of a group victim and that's why they can't figure out how to make money. It's kind of funny actually. It's a system of thought that is preventing them from getting paid...nothing else. They are trapped in their own entitlement dogma. OR maybe I just wrote all of this as a joke just to provoke a reaction and don't believe any of it actually.

FTW!

[freebird]

I just stumbled on this, and laughed.. as it definitely applies here somewhat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
It's about a writer and his dealings with Warner Brothers, and what happened when they asked to use his interview on their DVD and he asks for payment. His take on it is the attitude that photographers all need to develop. Heads up, the guy doesn't hold back and there's a few select words.. might need earmuffs for the young'ns =)



I love it:D Thanks for sharing that youtube.!

[MJPhotos24]

OR maybe I just wrote all of this as a joke just to provoke a reaction and don't believe any of it actually.

Hopefully! :)