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CaseyScofield
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:18
So, what's your favorite Creative Zone? One thing I've always wondered is how often the Pros use Full Manual?

Jackal
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:26
I use Av the most. But if I'm indoors in some type of party situation I just use P mode with the 420ex.

Mac
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:27
Sort of a mix...I use AV often, but I use M most of all. Maybe I am just a control freak...:D

pcasciola
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:29
I use all the creative zones, but I definitely use Av the most. Most of my flash photography is manual though, or Av mode in some cases.

FlyingPete
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:32
Ah yes, let see how it compares with the previous poll of the same subject, I for one am still a Av shooter:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56590

Citizensmith
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:34
Av. Maybe P if I'm being lazy, maybe M if I know the camera won't do what I want it to do.

Sydor25
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:37
Almost always Av mode, but M for panoramics and Tv for waterfalls.

Harry Settle
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 20:58
I got tired of all my flash shots with the 420EX being over or under exposed too often and switched to manual. As soon as I am more comfortable with being able to judge lighting I plan to switch to Av.

gulogulo1970
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 21:07
Av 75% of the time.

If I'm outside I put it on 5.6, 8.0 or f11.
Inside with avalible light I shoot my lenses wide open or one stop slower to get the fastest shutter speed possible handheld.

Av lets me frame my subject with the least thinking going to exposure.

Tv for sports, kids and the like.

mbze430
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 21:47
M here.

When I set my camera to P or Green Square I get pictures like this.

kawter2
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 21:49
I said AV, but it is about 50/50 for me with AV or M... I really prefer M but most of the time, shooting photojournalistic, I am in and out of shadows etc and it isn't realistic to shoot M. So I just use centerpoint and Focus Recompose w/AV (awaiting a yelling at)

Nightcrawler
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 21:57
Av most of the time with Manual for flash.

Raj
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 22:02
Av most. Tv second, manual third.

Steve Parr
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 22:05
Up until about two weeks ago, I was a slave to "P". Since then though, I've been experimenting more with Av and Tv...

Steve

Bob_A
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 22:07
I always use M for flash (50% of my photos), then 40% Av and 10% Tv. I used to use P-Auto a lot with my old Elan II, but I rarely ever use that mode anymore.

CyberDyneSystems
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 22:19
Ah yes, let see how it compares with the previous poll of the same subject, I for one am still a Av shooter:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56590


Or how it compares to these;
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47046
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=310577
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28175

...and those are just the ones with polls ;)

AV and M for me.. with the occasional TV
"P" is long forgotten.

22littlereasons
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 22:26
Looking at Cyber's post, it looks like alot of folks use Av. I'm an M or Tv predominent user myself. But I shoot mostly sports.

cmM
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 22:44
I'm an "M" guy ;)

markubig
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 23:26
For all you Digital Rebel guys who shoot handheld Av, are you getting fast enough shutter speeds at ISO400 and below to keep it handheld?

I can't shoot Av unless i'm on a tripod, so I mostly use M or P (when i'm lazy).

KevC
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 23:36
Av and M.

Nicky D
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 23:49
When I first bought the camera I was using P. I was not to happy with the results. Then tried the other modes and settled for "M" as my favorite. I feel that this is the best mode for me to learn my cameras abilities and my own learning needs.

J.A.F. Doorhof
28th of March 2005 (Mon), 23:51
M when I use flash or strong backlight with sports where I can't use flash.
Av for the casual shots, and normal situations

Duder
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 00:41
I used P for the first month or so. I've recently realised that Av is probably a better option for me, so I'll be using that from now on.

Dooglla
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 01:25
50-50 M and Av with my shots. Haven't had the chance to use Tv yet but, I will when I get to see some racing cars.

tommykjensen
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 01:35
In the beginning with my 300D and for short period with the 20D I used P a lot. On 300D I also used sportsmode alot.

But now for a long time I have used Av 99% of the time.

funpix
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 01:44
Working mostly with TV as I get the hang of a DSLR. Trying to break free of the just select and shoot presets.

rbbblues
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 02:52
manual, manual and then manual...........

sGu
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 02:58
Always Manual, however, i do occasionally use Av or Tv depends on shooting object and light condition. If I shoot sports outdoor with cloud moving rather fast, so you get sunshine or shade every 2 seconds, I set it to Tv; if I'm documenting a story with object constantly switching location in and out, with the effect I want in mind, I set aperture and let the camera does the rest.

:)

symes
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 03:04
For all you Digital Rebel guys who shoot handheld Av, are you getting fast enough shutter speeds at ISO400 and below to keep it handheld?

I can't shoot Av unless i'm on a tripod, so I mostly use M or P (when i'm lazy).

I am certainly getting a fast enough shutter speed outside and inside when I have my little nifty fifty on...but inside with the kit lens it is a lot more difficult unless you can hold the Camera at 1/25, so unless you can do that it is really difficult without pumping the ISO up to 800 or even 1600 which gives you a high noise level that is really noticable until you work with it in PS..

Cheers...

picture-this
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 03:30
For sport AV outside, TV inside. M for situations that arnt changing so much.

rfreschner
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 04:26
I've been using P mostly since I got my 20D a couple of months ago, but am starting to move more to AV now that I'm getting used to the camera.

skyphix
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 04:31
P most of the time because I'm lazy... but if its a casual walk around and I dont really care much about the photos I'm taking I'll use M...

or I use M for a lot of indoor shots because consistant light means I can meter it how I like it and leave it there.

markubig
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 07:15
I am certainly getting a fast enough shutter speed outside and inside when I have my little nifty fifty on...but inside with the kit lens it is a lot more difficult unless you can hold the Camera at 1/25, so unless you can do that it is really difficult without pumping the ISO up to 800 or even 1600 which gives you a high noise level that is really noticable until you work with it in PS..

Cheers...

whew! i thought i was the only one . . . with all the Av answers, i was thinking I was doing something wrong.

Thanks, symes

EricKonieczny
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 07:21
I use M Mode since I am in low light and use flash, but I am also using bulb mode quite a bit with it.


I feel like my AV shots are soft,

what am i doing wrong? Is it too much hand movement. I know my hand holding is not the steadiest. That is why I am getting a tripod right after my NYC trip.

sdommin
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 07:34
Gotta be "AV" unless the situation calls for something different (which is rarely).

alfa1six4
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 07:39
Started off like many others in P, but switched to mostly AV and sometimes M.

rpcm
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 08:31
Started off with P but now moving towards Av and M

Salleke
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 08:56
While i'm reading all your comments i'm more and more surprised and confused. Most of you are using Av all the time. But what if you are doing fast moving objects? Do you then use the Tv setting?
Others says they use M if working with flash, how do yoy set your flash, in auto or in manual mode? Can someone please explain it to a newbee in a few words? When to use Tv, Av or M and why? Thanks and sorry for those maybe dumb question.

CaseyScofield
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 09:00
Or how it compares to these;
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47046
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=310577
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28175

...and those are just the ones with polls ;)

AV and M for me.. with the occasional TV
"P" is long forgotten.

Don't worry y'all...I plan on posting at least 7-8 more polls on this same subject before the end of April! You never can be to careful you know. :D

Anteros
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 10:03
I almost always use M mode. I use Av mode sometimes when I need a specific depth of field and am in a hurry. I use P mode when I'm in snapshot mode. :)

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 10:06
For all you Digital Rebel guys who shoot handheld Av, are you getting fast enough shutter speeds at ISO400 and below to keep it handheld?

I can't shoot Av unless i'm on a tripod, so I mostly use M or P (when i'm lazy).

Mark, I can't see the relevance to shooting mode Vs. what shutter speeds you are getting, and thus a need for a tripod... ???

It should not matter whether you are in AV, M, P, or TV... in either case,. you will allways get the same exposure formula of aperture + shutter + iso = currect exposure. The values in either case are the same,. and thus if you have enough light to get the shutter speed you want in one mode,. then you can get the same shutter speed in any of the other modes.

Vega$50
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 10:58
Av all the way...sometimes. Then it may be Tv. I have not used any of the non-creative (I guess) modes on my camera.

Anders Östberg
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 11:30
Voted Av as that's what I most often use, but it depends on what I shoot...

- Av for nature and wildlife
- M for low light sports and for the little flash photography I do
- P for walkaround

- I've hardly ever used Tv

SeanH
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 11:47
O.K........maybe I am missing something here.......I've only been into photography since 9th grade, and I'm 41 now, so other than for flash /studio work what do you "M" guys & gals hope to gain using that mode considering you get the same readings / settings using either TV or AV? To me I am either looking to stop.....or blur action using TV, and working with depth of field control with AV.

Or are you just taking one meter reading .......maybe reflective or incident, and using those settings for consistent results. And if that's the case how many of you are using a meter other than the camera's..........just wondering?

toddb
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 11:53
I try and put it in "P" when I put it away just in case I need to rip it out and take a quick shot. AV I think is best outdoors and let shutter speed adjust to that. Indoors, defiantly "M". If you shoot with a flash gun indoors, "M" is the only way to go....unless you got one of the new fancy pants ETTL-2 things...then maybe. I don't have L series lens so my lens is a bit soft wide open which is why I usually in "M" mode. I think I would be more on "AV" if it wasn't the fact that I have to work indoors allot and don't get much time on this hobby right now so I shoot allot of indoor flash stuff when I can.

Anders Östberg
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 11:54
O.K........maybe I am missing something here.......I've only been into photography since 9th grade, and I'm 41 now, so other than for flash /studio work what do you "M" guys & gals hope to gain using that mode considering you get the same readings / settings using either TV or AV? To me I am either looking to stop.....or blur action using TV, and working with depth of field control with AV.

Or are you just taking one meter reading .......maybe reflective or incident, and using those settings for consistent results. And if that's the case how many of you are using a meter other than the camera's..........just wondering?

Can only answer for my use of M, and for instance for ice hockey I use M for all your reasons - control of DOF, to stop action and to get consistent exposures. If I were to use Tv or Av the settings would vary a lot depending on what's in the frame, and I'd have to adjust every frame differently in post processing. The same goes for white balance, in this situation I select one of the WB presets or set a custom white balance to not have to adjust every frame differently afterwards.

SeanH
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 13:25
Can only answer for my use of M, and for instance for ice hockey I use M for all your reasons - control of DOF, to stop action and to get consistent exposures. If I were to use Tv or Av the settings would vary a lot depending on what's in the frame, and I'd have to adjust every frame differently in post processing. The same goes for white balance, in this situation I select one of the WB presets or set a custom white balance to not have to adjust every frame differently afterwards.

Yes your correct in that use. I was just wondering if others were using it for different reasons.......yea depending on the amount of ice in the shot would vary your exposure. So what do you meter to get your benchmark setting? I guessing it's indoors?

4nR
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 13:35
When im in a hurry i use auto (until it got messed up) or Ap priority. otherwise i stick to full manual, which i totally LOVE.

markubig
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 13:47
Mark, I can't see the relevance to shooting mode Vs. what shutter speeds you are getting, and thus a need for a tripod... ???

It should not matter whether you are in AV, M, P, or TV... in either case,. you will allways get the same exposure formula of aperture + shutter + iso = currect exposure. The values in either case are the same,. and thus if you have enough light to get the shutter speed you want in one mode,. then you can get the same shutter speed in any of the other modes.
Hi CDS,

If I want to shoot handheld, my shutter speeds need to be faster than 1/50-1/60s right? I try to stay away from ISO 800-1600 because the noise IMO is unbearable. So if i'm indoors using Av mode with ISO400, and set an aperture of F/4.0-8 to get a decent DOF, even with decent light, the shutter speeds that camera picks are usually slow (~1/15-1sec). If I open the lens wide and if i'm lucky, the camera will get to 1/50-1/60, but then the DOF is razor thin.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this 1/60s shutter speed recommendation. . . can I shoot slower than that with an external flash?

DavidEB
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 15:17
I always put the camera away set on the green square, so others can use it, and also if I want a quick shot the camera is more likely to get it right than sticking to my last used settings (ISO, white balance, etc...).

When I have time to think about a shot, it doesn't matter if I'm switching the f-stop or the shutter speed -- the camera moves the other one to match and if I don't like it I can use exposure compensation. And in M mode it's just one more step, but no big deal. So I don't care from that perspective. But if I want a series of shots at the same exposure under changing conditions (panning for photostitch, skiing, hockey, etc..) then definitely M.

The biggest difference on the Rebel between M and Av/Tv/P is that M mode uses center-weight average metering and the others use the pre-set AF points, which I always set to the centerpoint. The auto modes use evaluative metering which can be valuable sometimes. So I can pick metering modes by changing picture mode.

And with flash, Av/Tv behaves very differently than M, P, or auto modes (Rebel again). That's a long subject all by itself.

Short answer -- my dial is all over the place, and green square is home base.

David

rfreschner
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 15:30
I always put the camera away set on the green square, so others can use it

You let others touch your camera??!! :D

SeanH
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 17:02
Hi CDS,

If I want to shoot handheld, my shutter speeds need to be faster than 1/50-1/60s right? I try to stay away from ISO 800-1600 because the noise IMO is unbearable. So if i'm indoors using Av mode with ISO400, and set an aperture of F/4.0-8 to get a decent DOF, even with decent light, the shutter speeds that camera picks are usually slow (~1/15-1sec). If I open the lens wide and if i'm lucky, the camera will get to 1/50-1/60, but then the DOF is razor thin.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this 1/60s shutter speed recommendation. . . can I shoot slower than that with an external flash?

You go with that and your gonna have alot of bad photo's. The rule of thumb (if you can hold a camers pretty still) is........the mm of the focal lenght should be the same or more than you TV.....for example your shooting with your 70-200, but your shooting at the 200mm mark, you would be able to shoot no lower than a 200th of a second......now comes the math......if your camera has a sensor like the Rebel, 10D, or 20D you would X the focal length by 1.6. So again, shooting the 20D at 200mm......X 1.6 = 320.....so you would need to shoot not below 320th of a second..........and that if you can hold it still good.

Hope that helps.........OH and BTW, flash made's no difference, it's still a 60th.....period

Anders Östberg
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 17:51
Yes your correct in that use. I was just wondering if others were using it for different reasons.......yea depending on the amount of ice in the shot would vary your exposure. So what do you meter to get your benchmark setting? I guessing it's indoors?
Yes, indoors and usually quite poor light. I don't have a light meter so I just take a few test shots before the game as the players start coming in, and check the histogram.

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:01
Mark,

Yes you want faster shutter speeds,. I am not arguing that,. my point is only that by using AV or TV or P you will get the same shutter speeds,. it just depends on how you set your aperture and ISO in AV. By switching to "P" you will not get any faster shutter speeds then you would in AV with the same f/stop and same ISO settings.

The modes are simply different ways of doing the same thing,. different ways of controlling the same settings.

In fact the very reason I shoot AV so often is I am looking to get the fastest shutter i can with the availble light and still get correct exposure,. so by setting to "wide open" f/stop using AV,. I know that the shutter speed will then be set to the fastest I can get with the lens, light, and ISO setting I have chosen.

I'm not saying any one way is better,. no this is not my question at all,. I am merely seeing what I feel to be flawed logic and a possible misunderstanding of how this all works.

***EDIT***

Are you talking about using flash?

Well,. that cahnges everything! :lol: :lol:

Sorry..

***edit**

markubig
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 19:53
Mark,

Yes you want faster shutter speeds,. I am not arguing that,. my point is only that by using AV or TV or P you will get the same shutter speeds,. it just depends on how you set your aperture and ISO in AV. By switching to "P" you will not get any faster shutter speeds then you would in AV with the same f/stop and same ISO settings.

The modes are simply different ways of doing the same thing,. different ways of controlling the same settings.

In fact the very reason I shoot AV so often is I am looking to get the fastest shutter i can with the availble light and still get correct exposure,. so by setting to "wide open" f/stop using AV,. I know that the shutter speed will then be set to the fastest I can get with the lens, light, and ISO setting I have chosen.

I'm not saying any one way is better,. no this is not my question at all,. I am merely seeing what I feel to be flawed logic and a possible misunderstanding of how this all works.

***EDIT***

Are you talking about using flash?

Well,. that cahnges everything! :lol: :lol:

Sorry..

***edit**

Hi CDS,

uh-oh . . . i think i'm now confused. Sorry . . . I never went to school for this . . . just read a book or two and whatever I've read on this and other forums. So using flash changes everything? How everything?

I've been using my Exposure Level Indicator to roughly determine the proper exposure. It doesn't change when I have my speedlite connected to the camera, so i've been measuring exposure the same with and without flash. How much stock should I put into this EV indicator?

Darn . . . looks like I need to start from the drawing board again . . . i should get a more detailed photography book.

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 20:22
With ETTL flash,. your cameras exposure doesn't matter,. as the flash will make up for it,..

When shooting with a flash,. if you are in "AV" the exposure is set IGNORING the flash,. the flash is then fired ,.. but only as fill light,. the camera will still be trying to make a correct exposure,. without the flash,. and thus your shutter speeds will plummet if its dark...

Now without a flash,. switching to "P" will result in the same stupid slow shutter speeds,. maybe even slower,. if the camera does not opt to open the aperture as far as you had set in AV,..

BUT if you are shooting flash,. then;

1: the camera will automatically set shutter speed to 1/60, 1/125/ or 1/250 depnding on some CF settings,..

2: Shutter speed will be less important anyways as the flash will act as a shutter with it's own strobe effect

3: The cameras exposure based slely on ambient light will not mattter as the flash will compensate by provideing enough light no matter what your shutter speed and aperture are.

So yes,. with a flash attached,. by switching to "P" from "AV" you possible shutter speed will seemingly go up,. but that is only because of the flash,. only in "P" mode will the flashes output be used to adjust the shuutter speed automatically to what would otherwise be a shutter speed too fast for a correct exposure.

markubig
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:16
With ETTL flash,. your cameras exposure doesn't matter,. as the flash will make up for it,..

When shooting with a flash,. if you are in "AV" the exposure is set IGNORING the flash,. the flash is then fired ,.. but only as fill light,. the camera will still be trying to make a correct exposure,. without the flash,. and thus your shutter speeds will plummet if its dark...

Now without a flash,. switching to "P" will result in the same stupid slow shutter speeds,. maybe even slower,. if the camera does not opt to open the aperture as far as you had set in AV,..

BUT if you are shooting flash,. then;

1: the camera will automatically set shutter speed to 1/60, 1/125/ or 1/250 depnding on some CF settings,..

2: Shutter speed will be less important anyways as the flash will act as a shutter with it's own strobe effect

3: The cameras exposure based slely on ambient light will not mattter as the flash will compensate by provideing enough light no matter what your shutter speed and aperture are.

So yes,. with a flash attached,. by switching to "P" from "AV" you possible shutter speed will seemingly go up,. but that is only because of the flash,. only in "P" mode will the flashes output be used to adjust the shuutter speed automatically to what would otherwise be a shutter speed too fast for a correct exposure.
CDS, thank you so much for effort to help me understand this subject. So if we revisit my original train of thought . . . With a flash, can I technically shoot handheld in Av mode with slower shutter speeds? If so . . . what's the threshold, where it's just not possible?

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:20
Using flash,. I don't use AV,.. I use only manual,. or in some cases,. "P",.. but usually manual

In manual,. you set the shutter speed exactly where you want it (as fast as 1/250th before you need HSS,. but usually that is more than enough),. and the aperture exactly how you need the DOF,. and this forces the Flash to make up for what would otherwise be a totally dark photo... and ETTL does exactly that... (assuming you don't ask too much of the flash and it simply can't produce)

So,. I never really thought of it this way,. but in fact,. I never shoot AV with flash.

If you want more control while shooting with a flash,. you should go straight to Manual..
Remeber even though your in "M" .. the flash is Auto Exposing... so you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get the right exposure,. the flash does it for you.

markubig
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:40
Using flash,. I don't use AV,.. I use only manual,. or in some cases,. "P",.. but usually manual

In manual,. you set the shutter speed exactly where you want it (as fast as 1/250th before you need HSS,. but usually that is more than enough),. and the aperture exactly how you need the DOF,. and this forces the Flash to make up for what would otherwise be a totally dark photo... and ETTL does exactly that... (assuming you don't ask too much of the flash and it simply can't produce)

So,. I never really thought of it this way,. but in fact,. I never shoot AV with flash.

If you want more control while shooting with a flash,. you should go straight to Manual..
Remeber even though your in "M" .. the flash is Auto Exposing... so you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get the right exposure,. the flash does it for you.
OK . . . so then I have been doing it right, since I almost always shoot with flash in the M or P modes. When you first questioned my original post, i thought you were implying it was possible for me to handhold the slow shutter speeds in Av mode with a flash. Thanks for your help! Sorry that I took this thread down such a long tangent . . .

So to answer the original topic . . . I use M or P modes :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes: :D

Bob_A
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:46
Hi CyberDyneSystems,

When you said "the exposure is set IGNORING the flash", did you mean to say "background or ambient exposure"?

This is how I understand ETTL-II to work, I apologise in advance if any of the following is wrong:

For the 20D (ETTL-II) I believe that the flash is only in fill mode when the EV is >= 10, with maximum reduction at Ev=13. So, since room light is often EV<10 the flash is used for illumination of the subject. According to a note I got from Canon, this is the way it works for ALL modes with ETTL-II.

Quote from Canon support: "All flash modes handle the fill flash the same way."

On the other hand the camera's light meter changes shutter speed when in Av (or the aperature in Tv) to try to properly expose the background ... which is why using Av in low light situations will result in very slow shutter-speeds. P-Auto moves both, so if the lens wasn't wide open in Av, switching to P-Auto will open the aperature and lower the shutter speed as the camera tries to properly expose the background.

It's been a long day, so maybe I misread your response ... or maybe I'm still a bit screwed up about the way ETTL-II works :)

Bob

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:50
OK . . . so then I have been doing it right, since I almost always shoot with flash in the M or P modes. When you first questioned my original post, i thought you were implying it was possible for me to handhold the slow shutter speeds in Av mode with a flash. Thanks for your help! Sorry that I took this thread down such a long tangent . . .

So to answer the original topic . . . I use M or P modes :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes: :D

Next time the poll should specify flash or no flash! LOL

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:58
Bob,

I'm not really sure what your asking now...
As I understand it,. when you have the camera in AV using an ETTL flash unit,. then the camra will set exposure exactly as it would if there were no flash on board,.

IE: If I take my camera into a dark room and have it in AV and focus, and press the shutter half way to lock exposure,. and the shutter speed is set at 1/4 sec to provide a correct ambient exposure,. if I then turn on a flash unit,. it will give the exact same 1/4 second shutter.. but the flash will fire as fill flash only. The shutter will still fire at the slow 1/4 as if the flash was not there to help with lighting.

I'm not sure what Canon is saying,. but this is simply what my camera's do with the flash units I have. (1DmkII and 20D with either 550ex or 420)

Bob_A
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 22:23
I agree with everything that you have stated except the comment about fill flash. Below Ev=10 there is no fill flash reduction with ETTL-II, so the flash ensures the subject is illuminated correctly. The flash is only in fill-flash mode with all cameras/flash using ETTL-II (i.e., the 20D) when Ev>=10, with full reduction at Ev=13.

I believe that the scene brightness would be about Ev=10 if you could get a proper exposure using ISO 100 and 1/60s at f4.0 to f4.5.

I'm pretty that except for the fill flash comment we are saying exactly the same thing. :)

Bob

CyberDyneSystems
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 22:47
O-kay,. I see I'm mis-using the term "fill flash" most likely.

Bob_A
29th of March 2005 (Tue), 23:24
No problemo!

I still have some confusion about ETTL-II, but I've at least finally figured it out well enough to get pretty consistent exposures. The fill-flash thing really screwed me up for awhile, and it seemed to take way too much effort to get a proper response from Canon support to describe how it works.

By the way, if it wasn't for this forum, I'd still be messing up 50% of my flash images ... so I really want to thank you and all of the other contributors for the help I have been getting.

Bob

DavidEB
30th of March 2005 (Wed), 05:04
CDS, I agree with you that M is a great mode for when you're using flash, because you don't get the problems of very long shutter speeds with Av mode as the camera tries to correctly expose a dark background. But with flash, Av is still useful if the background is almost light enough and you're using the flash as fill - you get correct exposure of subject and background without setup work. And you can use exposure compensation (not flash EC) to darken the background just a little. Sure you can get the same result with M but it's more steps. So sometimes Av is useful with flash. P is also useful since it's like Av but won't allow very slow shutter speeds. Tv might be useful with flash but I haven't figured out when.

Usually I shoot flash pics in M but if I'm moving around with variable lighting I might use P or Av. They each have good points.

My first flash setups were pure manual -- there was a guide number and a dial on the strobe, and I got real good at math. Bounce shots were trial-and-error. E-TTL is a true joy - the only auto flash system I know that really works.

David

I Simonius
30th of March 2005 (Wed), 06:02
snip

I can't shoot Av unless i'm on a tripod, so I mostly use M or P (when i'm lazy).

Have you tried puttting the CAMERA on the tripod - that might help - it would also stop your eyes from watering
:lol: :lol: :lol:

RockOne
30th of March 2005 (Wed), 06:11
Av mostly, but if I want specific effetcs like motion blur, or to stop action etc I will switch to Tv.
Sometimes i'm in the twilight zone too :-) :-) !

Alan Neilson
30th of March 2005 (Wed), 13:32
I still use P mode a fair bit, depending on what I am shoting, but always use the thumb dial to set the appature/ shutter spreed that I what for what I am photographing, at least that way I can decide if I what DOF or high shutter speed.

Jim_T
30th of March 2005 (Wed), 17:18
I prefer P for general shooting.

It usually finds the sweet spot between smallest aperture and fastest shutter speed. This is great for most photos. Anyone saying 'P' mode doesn't provide any control probably doesn't know you can override the camera's chosen aperture and shutter speed at any time by adjusting the right hand finger wheel forward of the shutter release or the big wheel at the back of the camera.

If I'm shooting multiple shots in a situation where DOF becomes important, or I'm after an extra fast or slower shutter speed, then I choose the appropriate priority mode.

I always use M for night shooting..