BASIC Processing Charges?

[booju]

A friend of mine has a very large business where he provides documentation and inspections to various corporate clients and he has contracts that require him to take a lot of outdoor on-site photographs...

HOWEVER, he wants nothing to do with processing these JPEG images and wants me to process them for him.

All he wants is the minimal BASIC processing of these images, which his crews take from Point & Shoot cameras with a 1mb picture quality and wants them finished at about 300 kb for easy electronic transmission to his clients' corporate hdqtrs.

BASIC ADJUSTMENTS for light, color, contrast, NR, sharpening, and cropping if needed to assure horizontal level images...

That's it!

In these tough economic times and me being unemployed right now he thought this was a GREAT business opportunity for me as he's seen my photo's before and asked me if I was interested and to give him a price per image!

I then, ....did a "before and after" jpeg pic for him from one I had laying around that was taken with a P&S camera comparable to the type his crews use for field documentation, etc. etc. ...It took me in all of 3-5 minutes...

He liked it!!!

He only needs these pics to be "enhanced" as the clients were not satisfied with his UNPROCESSED jpegs straight out of camera...The problem is mostly shadows and highlights and needing a touch of NR and sharpening primarily...Again, just quick BASIC type of processing!!!

Just the EASY minimal stuff...

The pics come from different locations under varying conditions of ambient light so I don't believe batch prorocessing is an alternative here, and each image needs to be processed individually!

Scenario...

They shoot on average....

480 pics per day @ 22 days per month > 10,560 pics per month

That's 126,720 pics per year over the next several years!....

My wife and I will work this business venture @ $30 each...

As a business we will charge [rate]...$60 per hour @ 8 hr/day= $480 day

In order for the two of us to process 480 pics @ 16 hrs <2 man> per day

that's...

480 divided by 16 = 30 pics per hour

30 pics per hour divided by the two of us = 15 pics per hour each

For the type of work involved I believe we will be more than able to process these many pics per day and find 15 pics per hour per person to be about right and I'm sure we will be more efficient as time progresses...

I'm contemplating....


BASIC processing/Flate Rate...........$1.00 - $1.50 per image
[estimating 3 - 5 minutes process time per image max.]


<and if desired for certain PRIORITY images>

ADVANCED processing/Flat Rate.......$75 per hour


What do you think of my business plan for this very possible long-term contract I'm proposing???

Are my rates way out of line for this volume (+/-)???

If they demanded higher resolution processing and prints then I would have to spend a lot more energy and time to process these images and hence I would be charging TOP DOLLAR per image!

However, this will be just BASIC processing that will be categorized as "refinished" and the batch will be electronically sent to my friend via my FTP server for him to include in his documentation and reports and then filed into the client's corporate database as a record and history for future use....

Again, because of these tough economic times my friend's company is seeking my limited services in this regard...BASIC PROCESSING ENHANCEMENTS....

I want to offer him a fair deal and I would like to be compensated accordingly!!!

Please let me know your thoughts as I would certainly appreciate it, as during these tough economic times and being unemployed for the past 9 months with a family of four to care after, he wants me to fulfill a critical need for this company!!!

Thank you in advance for whatever type of insight you would be able to provide whether positive or negative and I will try my best to address your suggestions and revise my business plan and objectives if required!:D

[Alleh]

I think the only issue is being careful not to underestimate the amount of time involved with editing each photo. Even when I think the editing will be fast it never really is. To be safe I would allow yourself around 10 min for each photo.

[booju]

I think the only issue is being careful not to underestimate the amount of time involved with editing each photo. Even when I think the editing will be fast it never really is. To be safe I would allow yourself around 10 min for each photo.


EXCELLENT POINT!!!!

I will revise my numbers regarding processing pics per hour!!!

Thank you for sharing your WISDOM my friend it is much appreciated!!!:D:D:D

[Tunneruk]

Also you'll need to factor in some down time, Processing hundreds of somebody elses uninteresting shots 8 hours a day, day in day out will drive you absolutely nuts!

[booju]

Also you'll need to factor in some down time, Processing hundreds of somebody elses uninteresting shots 8 hours a day, day in day out will drive you absolutely nuts!

Excellent Point!!!

Yep, the photos are uninteresting and generic to say the least! And I do plan to go nuts, especially the wife; but it is a fantastic business opportunity in these tough economic times!

But it's a paying job, whereas I am flat-out unemployed with no relief in sight but this opportunity that has found me actually...:D

It's very difficult for me to snub $1.00 - $1.25 per photo...

That's $10,560 - $13,200 per month and $126,720 - $158,000 annually gross income respectively, operating from our home-based office and minimal overhead expenses, as no-paid staff besides ourselves. Our private business family medical/dental insurance plan will be our greatest expense as I see it at $1100 per month/$13, 200 annually.

I believe that's still a lot of money to live comfortable on at a fair market value!

Both the wife and I realize in order to make this kind of money we will have to sacrifice several things because of the daily monotony and grind, but everything has a price and I'm willing to pay the price for this type of business venture!

Your point is well-taken and I appreciate it very much!!!

Yes, the schedule will no doubt be rigorous and I MUST factor in some down-time somehow!!!

Right now I don't have any idea how to formulate it into the plan, but hope to analyze/evaluate the situation to implement that down-time factor into the curve...

Great advice and thanks very much!!!:D

All in all, my price maybe all out of line with my friend's expectations...he may be thinking 19 cents a photo for all I know...hehehe

All of this may never even materialize because of price differences and expectations, but I most certainly need to try to offer his company the best rate I can possibly conceive!

I just want to be sure its a win-win for him and I and I'm not left holding the short-end of the stick....:lol:

Again, I appreciate your advice and comments very much!!!

[breal101]

It sounds like a good plan, once you get rolling you may be surprised how fast you can go. My only advice is to make sure to invest in comfortable chairs. :lol: It could literally be a pain in the butt. :lol:

[tomslens]

Make sure that before you start working, whatever agreement you WRITE out on this venture details that you are the final word on what constitutes basic and advanced editing. It would be all to easy for your client to get comfortable and think they can dictate what "basic" is.
Also, start thinking about automating as much of the process as possible with Photoshop actions. It will help with the tedium of repetetive editing steps.

[booju]

Yes, yes, yes brother!

Yes on WRITING out exactly the terms of the agreement as to what is EXACTLY basic and what is EXACTLY advanced processing!!!

And,

YES, about trying to write some PHOTOSHOP ACTIONS to help as much as possible,.... for much will be quite the same as this will cut me back on time expended!!!!

Great points on both accounts and very much appreciated!!!

I just got through talking with my friend on a few notes of interests!

I mentioned that I'm still working on my proposal, and I've learned much more about the pricing structure of their business with the different contracts of $550K here and $265K there and another $375K on another place; And it seems to me that for the amount of work they are already involved in besides providing quality photos I would think it would not be feasible to pay me $127K - $158K per year @ $1 per image just to get them the quality photos they need which is sooo very IMPORTANT to the objective of the contract in the first place along with the documentation!

The business plan has to evolve into something that is more palitable for them to absorb, in order for this to be a win-win proposition!!!

I need to be able to charge them much, much less!!!

Maybe I need to charge them a contracted monthly rate as in a SALARY???

Say a full-time job hourly rate at $28 per hour @ 22 avg. working days per month>>>>say $4900 per month

That's $58, 800 annually and much more palitable to absorb than my $1 per image processing fee!!!

If that's the case then,.... ultimately I need to look into batch-processing and/or writing some effective Photoshop Actions to get that amount of volume done daily!!!

In other words producing a finished product that they are satisfied with for the amount of money spent...I need to keep it all into perspective!

I believe this is evolving into a plan where they will be getting the most bang for their buck!!!

And I will have a lot more time on my hands to handle the daily volume!!!

I believe I'm finally getting some place now with this as its evolving into something even more promising for both parties on either side of the equation!!!

Thank you very, very much for your advice!!!!

You all are helping me keep my family alive and off the streets!!!

I need to secure this contract badly!!!

I appreciate all your efforts and wisdom in seeing me thrive once again!!!

9 months out of work is a very long time especially with a 4 yr old daughter who is the love of my life!!!

[S.Horton]

I think you need to find your competitors and match their price.

Like this outfit:
http://www.prodarkroom.com/postprocessing-pricing.php?PHPSESSID=5bf482bff5499a0d2ee329e33c92 e536

BTW, when I see your posts, I think each one took you up to an hour to write and format. I hope you get the work!

[booju]

I think you need to find your competitors and match their price.

Like this outfit:
http://www.prodarkroom.com/postprocessing-pricing.php?PHPSESSID=5bf482bff5499a0d2ee329e33c92 e536

BTW, when I see your posts, I think each one took you up to an hour to write and format. I hope you get the work!

Thanks Sam I'll check it out in more detail and try to convert the pounds into US dollars...hehehe????

Thanks for the well wishes I appreciate it!!!!;););)

[sodalis]

In order for the two of us to process 480 pics @ 16 hrs <2 man> per day

that's...

480 divided by 16 = 30 pics per hour

30 pics per hour divided by the two of us = 15 pics per hour each



I'd suggest checking your math here. You already accounted for having two people when you calculated the 16 hours for the work day, you don't get to divide the 30 photos per hour by two again.

*edit for clarity- Total workflow needs to be 60 photos per hour, 30 per person.

[booju]

I'd suggest checking your math here. You already accounted for having two people when you calculated the 16 hours for the work day, you don't get to divide the 30 photos per hour by two again.


Gotcha!

Thanks a million!!! ;)

Yep, 60 images per hour x 8 hours > 480 per day!!!

Yeah, that's 30 images each!!!

I just scribbled these things down in a hurry in an attempt to get something tangible...I need to be much more CAREFUL...:oops:

I thank you very much for your contribution, VERY weighty indeed!!!!!!!

I better start finding someone who can assist me in writing a couple PHOTOSHOP ACTIONS for me soon and inquire about pricing...I have to free up some time here desperately:lol: or else I'm shot...:cry:

I need to SPEED up the process for this plan to work!!!!!

Any ideas??????

[tim]

If you do it as a price per image and you get faster then you get paid more or work less. If you charge per hour you're not rewarded for getting better at it.

This sounds like it could be automated quite easily, with you just doing checking and processing the images that need it by hand. Auto levels, auto contrast, straighten. Do it all in CS4 bridge, which works fine with jpegs, it'll be quite quick. I would think it'd take about 20 seconds per image for what you want, though it could be between 5 seconds and a minute if it's a really bad image.

[booju]

If you do it as a price per image and you get faster then you get paid more or work less. If you charge per hour you're not rewarded for getting better at it.

This sounds like it could be automated quite easily, with you just doing checking and processing the images that need it by hand. Auto levels, auto contrast, straighten. Do it all in CS4 bridge, which works fine with jpegs, it'll be quite quick. I would think it'd take about 20 seconds per image for what you want, though it could be between 5 seconds and a minute if it's a really bad image.


I hear you!!!

I've been experimenting on my PSE 6 on AUTO enhancements to gain the needed speed!

Not bad at all!!!

Not as good as my work when I tweak each individual adjustment but not bad at all for the "before and after" result !!!

One "click", one "click", one "click" and one "click" to USM sharpen [preset]...

then "save as", then resolution [picture quality] and outta there!!!

About 5-10 seconds max per image using the automated enhancements!!!

Say a minute per image then I'm right back to meeting the original goal of 60 images per hour!!!

But if I can write an ACTION to do this for me and batch process them that would be waay too cool!!!

Or do these AUTO FIXES have to be performed one by one???

Anybody?

These are JPEGS....

Is Light Room 2 only for RAW files???

Geez if I could organize this stuff in Light Room 2 and batch-process them that would be great!!!

Does Light Room 2 have these automated enhancements too???

Thank you very much for sharing your advice and suggestions!!!:D

[booju]

If you do it as a price per image and you get faster then you get paid more or work less. If you charge per hour you're not rewarded for getting better at it.

This sounds like it could be automated quite easily, with you just doing checking and processing the images that need it by hand. Auto levels, auto contrast, straighten. Do it all in CS4 bridge, which works fine with jpegs, it'll be quite quick. I would think it'd take about 20 seconds per image for what you want, though it could be between 5 seconds and a minute if it's a really bad image.


I hear you!!!

I've been experimenting on my PSE 6 on AUTO enhancements to gain the needed speed!

Not bad at all!!!

Not as good as my work when I tweak each individual adjustment but not bad at all for the "before and after" result !!!

One "click", one "click", one "click" and one "click" to USM sharpen [preset]...

then "save as", then resolution [picture quality] and outta there!!!

About 5-10 seconds max per image using the automated enhancements!!!

Say a minute per image then I'm right back to meeting the original goal of 60 images per hour!!!

But if I can write an ACTION to do this for me and batch process them that would be waay too cool!!!

Or do these AUTO FIXES have to be performed one by one???

Anybody?

These are JPEGS....

Is Light Room 2 only for RAW files???

Geez if I could organize this stuff in Light Room 2 and batch-process them that would be great!!!

Does Light Room 2 have these automated enhancements too???

Thank you very much for sharing your advice and suggestions!!!:D

[tim]

Any time you go into photoshop proper your speed will massively drop. Bridge ftw.

[LBaldwin]

Hi Roland,

First you need to factor the CODB as part of your business plan. Learning your cost of doing business will assist in pricing so that it will reduce the case of gotchas that often happens when you are a lab. That is essentially what you are doing, operating as a photo lab.

Some costs to factor in are;
1. Business license, and resale permits
2. Computer usage, along with external backup.
3. Off site backup is a great idea too.
4. Electricity averages for the gear you use.
5. Rent for the workspace (tax deductable) requires exclusivity for that though.
6. Phone and internet charges
7. Consumables for CD's, printers, tax deductible and tax free with permit etc
8. Insurance, insurance, insurance
9. Software and hardware upgrades including business accounting software.
10. Vehicle expenses
11. Sales tax
12. Accountant or bookkeeper fees

So you can see that it is not just the time spent on each image that controls the pricing, but the operational costs that must be factored in too.

Good luck

[DDCSD]

Just to answer the LR2 auto question.

Yes, LR2 has auto adjustments, and they can be used on batches. I've never used them for batches before, but I have used it on individual images, and it will more often then not be a good starting point.

It may even be "good enough" for your purposes.

[S.Horton]

Just to answer the LR2 auto question.

Yes, LR2 has auto adjustments, and they can be used on batches. I've never used them for batches before, but I have used it on individual images, and it will more often then not be a good starting point.

It may even be "good enough" for your purposes.

Sounds like he may need to get good with CS3/4 in the end, though, so that batches can be customized for a particular scene/light.

[DDCSD]

Sounds like he may need to get good with CS3/4 in the end, though, so that batches can be customized for a particular scene/light.

Yeah, the only batches I run are my own images that were consistent, but a touch off (WB, exposure, etc).

I can't imagine batching random shots from people that may or may not have any idea what they are doing, with settings and exposures all over the map.

[booju]

Any time you go into photoshop proper your speed will massively drop. Bridge ftw.


Thanks Tim I appreciate your response and will consider it in my decision making process...I'll address this as I choose which software(s) I will run because I'll probably need to choose a combination of 2 in my workflow!:D

[booju]

Hi Roland,

First you need to factor the CODB as part of your business plan. Learning your cost of doing business will assist in pricing so that it will reduce the case of gotchas that often happens when you are a lab. That is essentially what you are doing, operating as a photo lab.

Some costs to factor in are;
1. Business license, and resale permits
2. Computer usage, along with external backup.
3. Off site backup is a great idea too.
4. Electricity averages for the gear you use.
5. Rent for the workspace (tax deductable) requires exclusivity for that though.
6. Phone and internet charges
7. Consumables for CD's, printers, tax deductible and tax free with permit etc
8. Insurance, insurance, insurance
9. Software and hardware upgrades including business accounting software.
10. Vehicle expenses
11. Sales tax
12. Accountant or bookkeeper fees

So you can see that it is not just the time spent on each image that controls the pricing, but the operational costs that must be factored in too.

Good luck





Thank you Les!!!:D


Yes I do need to factor in for the CODB and I completely missed it as I was so engrossed at this stage in just getting a platform/basis in determining cost for production! I will most definitely factor this in very soon to determine my final costs!

Again, thank you very much for taking the time in providing me some details to consider, I appreciate it!!!!!:D

[booju]

Just to answer the LR2 auto question.

Yes, LR2 has auto adjustments, and they can be used on batches. I've never used them for batches before, but I have used it on individual images, and it will more often then not be a good starting point.

It may even be "good enough" for your purposes.

Sounds like he may need to get good with CS3/4 in the end, though, so that batches can be customized for a particular scene/light.

Yeah, the only batches I run are my own images that were consistent, but a touch off (WB, exposure, etc).

I can't imagine batching random shots from people that may or may not have any idea what they are doing, with settings and exposures all over the map.




Derek and Sam.......Thank you very much for your contribution here!!!:D


The more I analyze this the more I really think I will need a software combo that will assist me effectively in getting the job done, i.e., CS4 and Lightroom 2...

This is where my head's at now in considering all things....


Facts...

* all images are outdoor photos taken from (5) same model P&S 8mp cameras by crews who use the same auto settings shooting in GREEN mode...

* all images will come from basically the same type of ambient light more or less to some degree because they all work in the same region...



To achieve satisfactory results in batch-processing I "would like" to do all but two things initially....

#1- Classify and separate images into two batches...Lights and Darks

#2- Batch-process each accordingly, then view and select the ones that don't meet my criteria and need a touch more fine-tuning in Photoshop and finish!

***If I need to only retouch 50 images out of the 480 images in a day I would consider this a great system!!!


The plan is slowly evolving and I am very happy with the progress I'm making here with the advice and suggestions that I am receiving from my POTN family!!!

My wife and I thank you ALL for your continuing support as we address the challenges we face in this very important opportunity and task that lays on the road before us!!!:D:D

[tim]

Lightroom and Bridge are much the same under the hood, either will work fine. I just find Bridge simpler as you don't have to mess with libraries or anything, plus I like the interface better.

[booju]

Thanks!!!

[booju]

Yeah, the only batches I run are my own images that were consistent, but a touch off (WB, exposure, etc).

I can't imagine batching random shots from people that may or may not have any idea what they are doing, with settings and exposures all over the map.



I'm doing some trials right now and its not working out the greatest....Its definitely not meeting my standards!!!

It seems like I do have to process them individually as I originally anticipated!!!

But I have managed to pick up some speed in my efforts, which is a wonderful thing and no more than a minute per image!!!

However, I have not been able to nail down the pricing as of today for the CODB!!!

But I'm steadily making progress....I just wanted to keep those of you who have contributed here current.....And thank you so very much and any more thoughts of interests please fire away, I would appreciate it and the support!:D:D

I'm trying my darndest to make the most of this opportunity....;)

[torvaterra]

I just wanted to mention that in your contract, it might be a good idea to stipulate that some images may be beyond fixing. Sometimes when you fix a pic for someone, where the original image was horrible, they don’t understand why it doesn’t look as good as all the other images. Stating things like this and getting it in writing ahead of time might help avoid an altercation, just in case.

Also, when you do the pricing, if you wife is going to be working as well, remember to charge for her too. In one of your more recent quotes you mentioned a salary but I think that if you both work, then there should be two salaries. I don’t know enough to help you with the exact pricing though. Most places charge per hour or per image.

If you salary yourself then you might get stuck if you end up working “overtime.” Salary is usually 40-60 hours a week where I work but many of the managers work many more hours than that but all get the same pay. So if one week you get 600 images and the next week only 200, you are getting paid the same. Also, most salary positions around here also have benefits (health care, employee discounts, etc.) Since you have a little one to care for, Id consider inquiring about health care as part of the package. Or at least factor that you will have to purchase your own plan into the equation.

Another thought would be to research what other people are getting for similar work. Check out this site http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/salary There is a salary calculator and articles on negotiating your salary, maximizing salary growth, etc. You could probably find more calculators like that online too, compare and contrast.

Although he is your friend, and you need work badly I wouldn’t sell yourself short too much on this. Find out what he would have to pay if he didn’t use you and negotiate from there. Find the middle ground so that he feels like he got a fair deal, but you don’t have to eat ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches everyday. Good luck!

[booju]

I just wanted to mention that in your contract, it might be a good idea to stipulate that some images may be beyond fixing. Sometimes when you fix a pic for someone, where the original image was horrible, they don’t understand why it doesn’t look as good as all the other images. Stating things like this and getting it in writing ahead of time might help avoid an altercation, just in case.

Also, when you do the pricing, if you wife is going to be working as well, remember to charge for her too. In one of your more recent quotes you mentioned a salary but I think that if you both work, then there should be two salaries. I don’t know enough to help you with the exact pricing though. Most places charge per hour or per image.

If you salary yourself then you might get stuck if you end up working “overtime.” Salary is usually 40-60 hours a week where I work but many of the managers work many more hours than that but all get the same pay. So if one week you get 600 images and the next week only 200, you are getting paid the same. Also, most salary positions around here also have benefits (health care, employee discounts, etc.) Since you have a little one to care for, Id consider inquiring about health care as part of the package. Or at least factor that you will have to purchase your own plan into the equation.

Another thought would be to research what other people are getting for similar work. Check out this site http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/salary There is a salary calculator and articles on negotiating your salary, maximizing salary growth, etc. You could probably find more calculators like that online too, compare and contrast.

Although he is your friend, and you need work badly I wouldn’t sell yourself short too much on this. Find out what he would have to pay if he didn’t use you and negotiate from there. Find the middle ground so that he feels like he got a fair deal, but you don’t have to eat ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches everyday. Good luck!



POWERFUL ADVICE!!!


I will heed every single sentence you have written!!!

At this particular point of my research I find your advice very well documented and I'm beginning to understand that I need to approach everything you've said with much credibility!!!!

The amount of work and the type of photo-editing required is no easy task because of the daily volume...480 jpegs ain't as easy as I thought it was, in regards to maintaining the quality and processing speed I need to be on top of the game every single minute, every single hour, every single week, every single month, every single....well you get my point....hehehe:confused:

I can't sell myself short as I was planning on doing to get the contract...If I'm going to do this day in and day out, I definitely have to be compensated well for it! The pace is rigorous and intense indeed!!!

I will start to do more homework getting quotes from the nations large photo-processing labs and then price below it to offer him a deal...My only hope is that they are not somehow batch-processing these with expensive software that I may not be able to afford, i.e., scanners that can individually automate adjustments for WB, Shadow/Highlights as that seems to be the greatest issue with these photos! My job in essence is to correct and adjust WB, and Shadow/Highlights to extract hidden details, then sharpen...that's all!!!

Auto levels, auto fix, and auto anything ain't really doing a good enough job and I have to end up tweaking almost every one, based on my most recent trials....

But I'm still able to manage 1 minute per image and at $1 per image I'm at my GOAL of having to do 60 images per hour @ 2 people [me/wife] that's 30 images each per hour!!! According to the #'s it all looks good on paper, but factoring in down-time anywhere's from 10-20% on average....that's a whole lotta work and pressure day in and day out to meet the daily quota of 480 images on average...And I should add in here,... 480 is typical but if anything it would go lower and not much higher if anything at all!!! 480 is their goal and they manage to achieve it about 90% of the time from what I understand....

At this point I MUST do as you advised in regards to finding out what other big-box photo-editing shops would charge for this service and take it from there!!! It's my only recourse at this point based on my findings of actual process time, as now I know what time it'll take me to get editing done per image and per day!!!

If their prices are waaay higher than mine then that leaves me room to negotiate which would be FANTASTIC!!!

However, if there prices are much lower than mine because professional, commercial technology, i.e., high-end software and equipment then I have my back to the wall...

Whatever it is I've come to the realization this it's very demanding HARD WORK and great for that,... but I cannot sell myself short because I need a job so badly as in the end the pressure may not be worth it and cause too MUCH unbearable strife unduly on the business and especially my marriage!!! Yikes!!!:o

Thank you very much for taking the time to share this advice with me!!!

Again, your SOLID advice was not a second too late....:D

I appreciate it very, very much!!!:D

[S.Horton]

What if they just hired you as an employee to do it?

[booju]

What if they just hired you as an employee to do it?



This thought has been in the back of my mind since late yesterday and it might be the BEST idea thus far, and might well be.... MY TICKET!

Thank you SAM for bringing this to the fore-front because when I just read your thoughtful suggestion....it seems this would be the greatest answer and the win-win that he and I might be looking for!!!

It would take a lot of pressure off of me financially, including daily demands and they would be able to get me in-house versus paying outside...Cost-wise for them it might be the best route to go and for me alleviate some of the expenses of doing business!!!

Bottom-line is that I can negotiate my hourly rate and get benefits, and then I wouldn't have to meet a somewhat required deadline as the contract is actually on-going for them with their clients!

In other words, instead of a one-week deadline from field inspection/report to client's database they could have a two-week dead-line and that would give me double the time to photo-edit to do it properly and it'll be on-going as the work pretty much will never end...well sort of...hehehe:lol::lol::lol:

It just may be the answer to all the woes as it puts me in a FANTASTIC position and more doable for each of us for the many reasons we've been talking about lately here in my post!!!

Again, thank you for bringing this to the front of my brain to see it in B&W...:lol::lol::lol:

[S.Horton]

Go get 'em.

Propose it, they might surprise you.

[tim]

If you run it as a business you'll make more money than as an employee, and you'll have more flexibility. Generally.

[booju]

Go get 'em.

Propose it, they might surprise you.


Thanks brother!!!:D

[booju]

If you run it as a business you'll make more money than as an employee, and you'll have more flexibility. Generally.


That's why I desired to run it as a business with this particular guy initially...yep more money and flexibility....:D


However, the more I spoke with this guy and started understanding their contracts and the services and documentation they were providing; I soon discovered to my dismay that they hadn't much wiggle room on their bids as it was broken down on a per inspection basis from the way I perceived it...

Hence, going in as an employee on a 40 hr./wk and monthly salary may be the way to go here!

For BASIC photo-editing @ $25-$28 hr > 40 hr/wk > $4400-$4900 mo. salary + benefits...

That's about $53,000 -$59,000 + benefits annually...

***Doing BASIC photo-editing, NO artsy stuff...pretty straight forward

It's a JOB no more and no less!!!

I need to secure something quickly....9 months unemployed one gets quite desperate with a family of four to feed....

I will negotiate my terms and see if I can get a flat-rate/salary contract and maybe I can do this for other companies that may need this service too!!!

I'll take it slow for now and address the issues that need to be addressed if and when I may wantto have a go at this with an aside business venture on a part-time scale...

But for now I need to look at securing this position first and foremost and right now I still have so much to figure out in terms of my proposal...

such as...

1) Photo-editing hourly rate as an employee, what's the nation's average for just basic photo-editing???


2) What does a big-box PHOTO LAB charge for BASIC photo-editing, hourly rate? and per image rate?


**I need to offer them a FAIR comparison...why in-house would be the way to go, then that'll be my ticket and negotiate my price from there.

I'll be feverishly doing much research today and tomorrow, but if anyone here discovers any helpful information in regards to those questions I would most certainly welcome it and thank all of you, my Board of Directors and Counsel....:D

I'll report my findings soon and as always I sure could use your input...time is waning...;););)

[PhotosGuy]

If you do it as a price per image and you get faster then you get paid more or work less. If you charge per hour you're not rewarded for getting better at it. This needs to be repeated. it might be a good idea to stipulate that some images may be beyond fixing. Which = an attempt at advanced editing which should be billed for, even if you fail to get a usable image. At least I would try to get that in the contract. Hence, going in as an employee on a 40 hr./wk and monthly salary may be the way to go here!
Be careful, & don't make it look too easy, or they'll hire some kid to do it for minimum wage. ;)

Good luck!

[booju]

This needs to be repeated. Which = an attempt at advanced editing which should be billed for, even if you fail to get a usable image. At least I would try to get that in the contract. Be careful, & don't make it look too easy, or they'll hire some kid to do it for minimum wage.

Good luck!


Thanks Frank!!!

I would be working from home as they don't have a very large office here in my state locally...that's a plus!!!

Most of their time is spent in the field... so only I would know the photo-editing process....and if and when there may be a time to disclose how I process these images they aren't getting all the SECRETS that's for sure...:lol:

That's the day I know they want to X-me out and train a minimum wage guy....then I'll go to Auto-Fix Mode, Auto-Levels, Auto-Contrast, Auto-Color, Auto-Sharpen, Auto NR.....and they'll be back at square one!!! I promise!!!

I will not take all the hard work and dedication I put into countless hours learning stuff here on POTN and several real editing GURUS that have befriended me over much time and taught me one on one...AND just give it away to these guys for FREE...

TRADE SECRETS and SKILLS will stay with me, my mouth is SEALED....

I will not cheapen the industry for my fellow photographers especially the ones who earn their living from it!!!

I just want to find a position and fill the void as this company is really suffering as they never had "anticipated" that these jpegs would not be adequate straight out of the camera for their clients satisfaction!!!

That's the problem!!!

They hadn't budgeted for it in their bids!!!!

And now their stuck, BIG TIME!!!!!!

Here's where I propose to come in for the RESCUE....

They are DEAD without any BASIC photo-editing, no if ands or buttts...

I have already edited a dozen images and the results are FANTASTIC!!!

BUTTTT....

To save their butttts its gonna cost them....

They gonna BLEED for sure, but the question is....

By who?.....And by how much???

Its my job to tell this major corporation EXACTLY what that figure is!!!:oops:

That's why in order to go up against these corporate GIANTS I desperately need to get my ducks in order and take it to 'um....

Its a TOUGH choice for them granted because this was overlooked,... now how do I make a deal for myself and take advantage of the situation and it be a definite WIN-WIN for both parties!!!

Believe me these guys have COUNSEL, but I have posted here to gather my volunteers...my BOARD of DIRECTORS...who have given me FAIR, JUDICIOUS, and PRUDENT COUNSEL.... and I will be forever indebted most graciously!

I'm fighting for my life here trying to get a job, the economy like everywhere is TOUGH and its getting worse really quick!!!!

I need to react to their crisis as it has been brought to my attention, and their CRISIS may just be my NEW beginnings...

I see this as a FANTASTIC opportunity and a way to stay involved with the love of my hobby as a photographer; Earning a few $$$$$'s making a decent living at it as a platform to my FIRST LOVE of WILDLIFE/BIRD/NATURE PHOTOGRAPHY where I can express my true creative expression as an artist...

I need a job to afford that and I'm hoping this will be my TICKET...

It would be a dream come true...no doubt!!!

The annual income from this is long-term and very stable even during these tough economic times!

I hope and pray that GOD will give me the WISDOM to put a SPECTACULAR proposal together with much hard work to present my CASE...

I will need to provide them with what's actually out there in terms of pricing and then give them my price that would be under that, if I was to do it as a private business; Then hit them with why they should choose to hire me to have those images edited in-house with a price that can't be beat on all accounts and still be quite prosperous for me to do!!!:D

My proposal will include documentation of BASIC average rates for a Big-box Photo Lab to handle it and what it would cost them for me to handle it as a private venture, then my price as their employee.

Also, I will include a dozen images of their field photos and place each one as a before and after comparison, my hope is, that after looking at a dozen pages that there is no other option, than to hire me!!!

The images I've post-processed are exactly the quality their client is demanding!

Their crew foreman(s) make about $18 per hour and they do really much of the work both inspection and repairs...I need to be mindful of this and I can't just name my price as that would be $35+ per hour if I had my way....:lol:

But I must keep it all in perspective to find my place on the TEAM...

If their supervisor and manager is making $25/hr and $35/hr respectively, then I better get real for this particular company's situation...hehehe

There's no way they are going to pay a guy to process these @ $35 per hour as to them this is "secondary" to the report...However, its not secondary in the opinion of their CLIENT but ever-so important!!!

This is THE PROBLEM!!!

VERY BIG PROBLEM!!!

I have to be the DESIGNATED-HITTER here doing the 9th inning GRAND SLAM homer for the WIN...this is the SCENARIO I'm up against...its a tough one but the only PLAY I have right now...

I've always came in to make the BIG clutch plays in my life...I need this one right now BIG TIME....;)

I appreciate the genuine support I've been receiving from my POTN family!!!

My wife and I continue to thank you all for your wisdom and encouragement!!!:D:D

[tim]

I think you've had enough coffee mate.

Another thing to consider is what if they put all the images into Picasa and hit "i'm feeling lucky". The chances are the majority of the photos will be much better than before, and it'll take them virtually no time or money, and they can spend a few minutes on the few images that don't work properly.

[S.Horton]

I think your next step is to clearly write a description of services, whether you get a job from it or not.

This is not easy to do if you've never written a proposal before.

First, list the main activities.

0. Receive images (how, exactly)
1. Straighten the image relative to the horizon/square edges
2. Enhance the color, tone and contrast of the image
3. Reduce the image size to (xxx K) -or- if it applies, to dimensions X by Y
4. Deliver results (how? do you need to caption images, rename them in a sensible way?)
5. Present a log of images processed (how, by subject, date)

Then, use examples with the client to make sure you both understand.

In your case, you could offer him a 3 day trial.

[booju]

This needs to be repeated. Which = an attempt at advanced editing which should be billed for, even if you fail to get a usable image. At least I would try to get that in the contract. Be careful, & don't make it look too easy, or they'll hire some kid to do it for minimum wage. ;)

Good luck!

I think you've had enough coffee mate.

Another thing to consider is what if they put all the images into Picasa and hit "i'm feeling lucky". The chances are the majority of the photos will be much better than before, and it'll take them virtually no time or money, and they can spend a few minutes on the few images that don't work properly.


Yep, a lot of coffee:lol: and its keeping me going so far to keep on top of things:lol:
in order, in order that I might be able to fill their need... I have to be so my proposal is legit and most economical for their particular situation...



I haven't tried Picassa so I really don't know about their "Auto Fixes" there...

However, I do know that I've tried my PSE 6/ACR and my CS2/ACR and BOTH of their AUTOMATED ENHANCEMENT adjustments are totally useless for what this CLIENT needs!!!

I tried using it at first for awhile on my own with NO satisfying results per my criteria...then, after reading your response here I decided to give it a try again and again but to no avail just not good enough!!! Really its terrible for their application!!!

In fact if it was that easy I would just tell my friend to do that and I wouldn't have even bothered trying to make this opportunity work....:lol:
He made the inquiry to me and I'm just looking into it at this point, and the more I look into it I'm discovering these guys are DEAD without PP each jpeg individually and hence I see the greater opportunity for myself! hehehe

The fact of the matter is that these images really do need to be edited "individually"...I tried my best to SEE if the images could be processed with a click of several "I feel lucky buttons" but the results were way too poor for the needed quality!

The best I was able to come up with was to use my pre-set defaults in several adjustments and then tweak from there!!! Its been pretty quick that way, in fact really quick but the daily volume is still incredible day in and day out and to meet daily deadlines! Best to do as much as I can on the payroll and have a much longer turn-around time with work that will never end....it might be good job security...:lol::lol::lol:

Thanks for your comments as they all have made me second-guess the alternatives!!!;)

[tim]

Try Picasa, its auto corrections aren't too bad. And perhaps try to be a little less verbose.

[booju]

I think your next step is to clearly write a description of services, whether you get a job from it or not.

This is not easy to do if you've never written a proposal before.

First, list the main activities.

0. Receive images (how, exactly)
1. Straighten the image relative to the horizon/square edges
2. Enhance the color, tone and contrast of the image
3. Reduce the image size to (xxx K) -or- if it applies, to dimensions X by Y
4. Deliver results (how? do you need to caption images, rename them in a sensible way?)
5. Present a log of images processed (how, by subject, date)

Then, use examples with the client to make sure you both understand.

In your case, you could offer him a 3 day trial.



Thanks Sam I appreciate it!

I've written many proposals as a Landscape Contractor/Designer/Consultant and I am very comfortable with putting in High-End proposals as there have been many and many bids won too...hehehe

But, I have never ever even dreamed of doing something like what I'm up against right now!!! A bit of a tuna out of water:lol:

Sooo that's why all the questions on this part of the forum....hehehe

Man I thank you a bunch Sam for sitting on MY BOARD:D

You've been a tremendous help and a nucleus for much of my sense of direction as I find my way down this path...;)

I will most definitely review that outline you've prepared and include all the pertinent details in my proposal!!!

Please stay with me on this brother as I'm gonna need your input more than ever as things are beginning to take definition...we're making headway!!!

I sincerely appreciate all your efforts to my cause!!!;)

[booju]

Try Picasa, its auto corrections aren't too bad. And perhaps try to be a little less verbose.


Just MY style and I'm fine with it:DTHANKS!

[LBaldwin]

Hi Roland, I hate to be a wet blanket but if your 'puter takes a serious crapola what is your backup? And also make sure that you use BACKUP to external source CD/DVD/ EHD as part of the selling scheme!! Triple redundancy once per day and then weekly should suffice!!

[S.Horton]

Sounds like you're in good shape for the pitch.

Good luck!

[booju]

Hi Roland, I hate to be a wet blanket but if your 'puter takes a serious crapola what is your backup? And also make sure that you use BACKUP to external source CD/DVD/ EHD as part of the selling scheme!! Triple redundancy once per day and then weekly should suffice!!


SOLID Les!!!

No wet blanket here;)

I haven't addressed that facet... But I was leaning towards that, but I haven't been able to NAIL it down!!! The PRICE has just gone up btw....:D

I need to be versed in this very soon because now I'm offering insurance:lol:

If I go with them they'll be purchasing all the equipment so much product research will be done shortly!

I'll write it into the plan right now of get-to's:D

Right on as usual Les...there ain't no one occupying your seat....SUPER;)

Any type of computer equipment, software suggestions, back-up devices you can recommend or personally prefer/used that I should look into?

Thank you!!!

[booju]

Sounds like you're in good shape for the pitch.

Good luck!



:lol::lol::lol:Did I mention to you that my favorite PITCH was the fast-slow inside-slider-knuckle-ball fork-finger-middle-finger curve ball just right outside the plate just ankle/knee/shoulder high!!!!

Perfect Pitch and a SWEET one to HIT...out of the park!!!

That's my favorite PITCH especially when I played pro ball in the major-pony-minor-major league back in 1984 where I played 62 straight seasons:lol:

As a player/coach the league allowed me to HIT this pitch....:lol:

[PhotosGuy]

5. Present a log of images processed (how, by subject, date)
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[S.Horton]

@Frank - Yet another excellent link.

I think 40% of my shortcuts came from you.

[booju]

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Thank you Frank I appreciate it;):D;)