POTN Book vol 3 Final poll RESULTS!!

[Permagrin]

We have reached the next phase of the great POTN Book Volume 3! WOW! What wonderful work was submitted and chosen. The Book Committee and the Book Team would like to thank everyone who submitted an image this year, over 1100 images in all. We wished it was feasible to publish all 1100. Final tally shows that there are 308 photos to be published in Volume 3.

Vol 3 Published images (http://potn.smugmug.com/Volume%203/621611)

Congratulations to each person that submitted and to those that were chosen for publication. Volume 3 is by far the best collection. It is exciting to see the talent POTN has to offer. Please take the time to browse all of the galleries and enjoy the photographs.

The next phase for the Book Committee and Book Team is layout, assembly and proofing. As history has shown, this process will probably take 45 to 60 days. Once we have the book completed and proofed we will make an announcement with ordering instructions.

Again, on behalf of the Book Committee and the Book Team, thank you for participating and we look forward to your submission in Volume 4.

[dispatchermike21]

Thank you to all for thier hard work and to all for the hard work to come.

[FlyingPhotog]

Three Cheers for Permie and the Book Crew!!! :)

[jbdavies]

Yay! Can't wait. :)

[jbdavies]

FYI: This image (http://potn.smugmug.com/gallery/6142171_Spu8u/1/432918525_nhfd8/Large) is in the people one twice...

[poppie guy]

We have reached the next phase of the great POTN Book Volume 3! WOW! What wonderful work was submitted submitted and chosen. The Book Committee and the Book Team would like to thank everyone who submitted an image this year, over 1100 images in all. We wished it was feasible to publish all 1100. Final tally shows that there are 308 photos to be published in Volume 3.

Vol 3 Published images (http://potn.smugmug.com/Volume%203/621611)

Congratulations to each person that submitted and to those that were chosen for publication. Volume 3 is by far the best collection. It is exciting to see the talent POTN has to offer. Please take the time to browse all of the galleries and enjoy the photographs.

The next phase for the Book Committee and Book Team is layout, assembly and proofing. As history has shown, this process will probably take 45 to 60 days. Once we have the book completed and proofed we will make an announcement with ordering instructions.

Again, on behalf of the Book Committee and the Book Team, thank you for participating and we look forward to your submission in Volume 4.

Thanks for the work you and the others involved in this project have done in producing volume 3!

[elysium]

Wooohoo! Thanks, I have been waiting for this. :lol:

Thank you to everyone for their work and congrats to all the entry winners.

[TheSonofDarwin]

Congrats everyone!

Also - who can I contact about remedying a mistake I made in the description of one of my photos? I misidentified an animal :o

[airfrogusmc]

Thanks to all for their hard work. ;) Its looks great!!!!

[Mike]

Well done everyone, there's some great shots this year :D

[Jamie Holladay]

FYI: This image (http://potn.smugmug.com/gallery/6142171_Spu8u/1/432918525_nhfd8/Large) is in the people one twice...
Corrected. Sorry for the mistake.

[-g-]

Wow! What an amazing selection of photographs. I'm honoured to see one of my images included.

[Harm]

Wow! What an amazing selection of photographs. I'm honoured to see one of my images included.

I heartily agree with that sentiment!

[Reyno]

Thank you for all your hardwork ... it's greatly appreciated !!!

[Flo]

I am thrilled to see Emma in the selection! Thank you so so much! This made my entire day.:D

I am having a time getting into a few of the categories though, keep getting Bad Server request...:(

[joayne]

A Huge SHOUT OUT to the people who volunteer their time and energy to get these books out for the enjoyment of all!

Fine job.

[wyntrsnyte]

Congrats to everyone chosen to be published in the book! Your shots are an inspiration to newcomers to photography (like myself) and make me want to learn and grow more each day.

Thanks to everyone who volunteers their time to make up the book. I can't wait to see the finished product!

[S.Horton]

Three Cheers for Permie and the Book Crew!!! :)

+1

bw!

[Cdeming]

WOW! I am just in awe of the talent on this forum!!! Great job everyone! I can't wait to get my copy of Volume 3!

And thank you thank you thank you to all of the volunteers put their time into this!! You guys are amazing!

[jgrussell]

Wow! What an amazing selection of photographs. I'm honoured to see one of my images included.+1 for me on that!

[Flo]

I got to see them all, and I don't know how you all did it. The time involved is amazing, and I echo all the sentiments about the judges and volunteers!bw!

[Laura]

Brilliant selection of images! To think that most of us are hobbyists and producing this kind of work is amazing. Thanks for all the hard work involved in making the book, I look forward to having a copy :)

[strgazr27]

Thanks to all those who work so hard to make this happen! Congrats to all the fellow winners! I am incredibly honored to have my shot chosen!

Best Regards!

Bobby

[Wazza]

Great work everyone again! Ever better than the previous volumes, after looking at the winning selections!

Thanks again to the entire book committee team :)

[eenorton]

Wow!

Spectacular collection!

Well done to all!

[silvex]

Big SHOUT to the POTN crew that made this possible again and congrats to the photogs in Volume 3!!!

[SYS]

Okay, here's my shout:

THANK YOU!

to all the committee members and the volunteers who worked so hard on this project. Your tireless efforts have made lot of people happy... :D

[dilorenzo1954]

Thanks for the hard work BC. Congratulations to all the entries. great volume!

[Brad Remick]

Wow! What an amazing selection of photographs. I'm honoured to see one of my images included.

Me too!

[hawk911]

Me three, or four or five....whatever we're up to now.

[blackshadow]

Some excellent images there - well done to those who made it through for publication and to those organising things.

I agree with the comments above that the photos voted for aren't that representative of the work displayed in the PA section but you can't argue with the voting system and all the images selected are magnificent.

[TenaCJed]

A big thank you to those involved in making this happen every year.

Congrats to all that made it, once again the images are spectacular.

[S.E.V.]

Sweet, bought time you guys posted this. I was waiting for the results. And WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE my motorsport shot got in. My first time submitting and I got one image in. SWEEEET!!!

Thanks Guys

[Permagrin]

lol SEV you're only 3 days late to party :lol: but congrats to you and everyone else who got shots in the book!

[S.E.V.]

lol SEV you're only 3 days late to party :lol: but congrats to you and everyone else who got shots in the book!


Hahahaha But the more I look at how did shot that got 7 votes get in over shots that had 19 votes????? The only reason I bring this up is that in the wedding share there are 11 photos finalized for the book and mine was clearly in the top 9 highest voted images. Go figure how that works. I thought this one a pure member voting deal. Now it looks as if it was not. please explain this.;)

[Permagrin]

The first half of the photos that made it into the book, including the signature shot and 1st max shot for each section were chosen by public vote. The 2nd half were chosen by the book panel (minus us on the book committee) who worked on the book, including the 2nd max shot.

[S.E.V.]

OIC, I was under the impression that the voting was for all the photos that would make it into the book. Didn't know there was two half's of voting. Also I did some photos get removed from the page where all the finalist for voting made it? The signature photos is down along with second place is also missing.

[FlyingPhotog]

Permie,

What are these "Max" shots of which you speak? And how are they different than the Signature Shots in each section?

[Jamie Holladay]

OIC, I was under the impression that the voting was for all the photos that would make it into the book. Didn't know there was two half's of voting. Also I did some photos get removed from the page where all the finalist for voting made it? The signature photos is down along with second place is also missing.
the signature shots were move to another gallery along with the max shot that was choosen by the forum as a whole. Another image was put in their place to make polls simpler. It was supposed to reduce logistics but it has actually caused more questions. Sorry for the confusion.
Permie,

What are these "Max" shots of which you speak? And how are they different than the Signature Shots in each section?
the max shots are on a page by themselves. They are smaller than the signature shot and larger than the regular shots.

[FlyingPhotog]

Thanks Jamie...

[S.E.V.]

It was supposed to reduce logistics but it has actually caused more questions. Sorry for the confusion.

You think? I think there are plenty of things to improve on for vol IV. I personally think that all the images selected for the finalist to be voted for should be selected by the book comity, it is the most logical way. BUT once the finalist are chosen and voting is open that's were the members votes counts for all signature, max and following shots that will be chosen for the book. It is only fair for all. I find that when the book comity step in and takes care of the second half of the voting it takes away from the entire purpose of the voting system, and opens a door of questioning on if the right decision were made. Why have to voting system in place when it is only good for the Signature and max shot ONLY! So some ones image that got 1 vote is selected over and image with 30 votes? Does that make any sense at all? I guess not to be and maybe a few others as well. Tell me I am wrong?

[Permagrin]

SEV...half the images of the book were voted in by POTN as a whole. The other half were voted in by the people working on the book, not the book committee.

[S.E.V.]

SEV...half the images of the book were voted in by POTN as a whole. The other half were voted in by the people working on the book, not the book committee.

I understand that, sorry I meant who ever votes for the second half. Why have a second half. I would say let the members vote for all the images for the book. That is a 100% fair way of doing it. Cause then for the second have you can have room for other to favor a friends image over another when the other image is clearly better. You see what I am getting at? With a 100% voter voting for the entire book the votes speak for them self. Leaving a second voting group pic the second half opens conversations like this. Something you guys can try to avoid in the next volume. Not trying to fight with you guys just trying to make a logical point that is fair for all members who voted and submitted images.

[cfpackerfan]

SEV, you misunderstood there. The public vote chooses more than just the Signature Shot and the 1st Max shot. The forum vote chooses half of the images that are published in the book as well.
If there are 20 shots published in a category (for example) the forum vote would choose 10 of them, and the other 10 are voted in by the book team (with the exception of the book committee.. they do not vote). The book team is a large group of volunteers. You can volunteer to be on teh book team for the next volume if that is something that you'd like to do.

What Jamie was talking about that caused the confusion, was the moving of images AFTER the vote. After the forum vote, the Signature shot and the Max shot were moved to their own gallery. Then the images left in the gallery were moved up to fill those spots, and renumbered.
The polls that are up right now do NOT match the image numbers. The votes that you see on the polls right now are NOT the number of votes that those images got. After the forum vote, these polls mean nothing. You can't look at them right now and see which images got a certain number of votes. It's just not possible because of the renumbering. We're sorry about that, but it's how it was done.

[S.E.V.]

I am not misunderstood. I totally get how the voting works. But I personally think that the entire book should be voted on by the potn as a whole through the voting process, that's all. One voting period for the whole book once the finalist for voting are chosen. I don't see the point of having the people how worked on the book vote. Do they get to vote twice? Once during all members voting period and once again for the second half? Is that fair?

[Permagrin]

Well we'll make sure the committee sees your opinion. Thanks for sharing. The book is a POTN book and the committee does it's best to make sure that the best of POTN is exhibited in the book. I can understand your concerns but do understand that we've done everything we can to make this fair.

[cfpackerfan]

SEV, I understand what you're saying, and I can see your point completely.

The POTN book is an ongoing process of teamwork and learning what works best. Every year we talk about the things that worked well, and the things that didn't, and try to change those.

Please understand that all comments are taken to heart by the book committee, and will be discussed for future volumes.

Edit: and what Lisa said. ;) :D

[S.E.V.]

Well we'll make sure the committee sees your opinion. Thanks for sharing. The book is a POTN book and the committee does it's best to make sure that the best of POTN is exhibited in the book. I can understand your concerns but do understand that we've done everything we can to make this fair.


SEV, I understand what you're saying, and I can see your point completely.

The POTN book is an ongoing process of teamwork and learning what works best. Every year we talk about the things that worked well, and the things that didn't, and try to change those.

Please understand that all comments are taken to heart by the book committee, and will be discussed for future volumes.

Edit: and what Lisa said. ;) :D

I can only image the amount of time, effort and thought that goes into these books, I do not own vol I & II and have never seen one in person. You guys do the best to make things fair. Outside views find things that can be improved on for the next volume. You guys did a great job so far just wanted to give my opinion on what could aid the in the next volume. Just trying to help that's all.;)

[Robuk]

Congrats to everyone that got into the book, and a huge thanks to everyone involved is putting this together as it was a huge amount of work :D and a hell of a lot harder than some may think!

Rob

[Mike]

The way I see it for the voting is that the forum vote and the panel vote will differ slightly in as much as the forum votes may be less well carefully selected and the technical qualities may be overlooked more - people generally tend to go "oh, that's nice" and vote for it.
The book crew vote, I believe, is more carefully considered as the crew all volunteer to spend time casting a more critical eye over all of the photos they see and so select shots they consider to be technically very good as well as aesthetically pleasing. Shots that at first look may get the brush off, but after looking a little longer at them one realises the skill and talent that has gone into producing the shot. The forum vote may not pick these so that's why the book crew vote for half.

[mikerault]

I look forward to the finished product! Great to make it in for the second time! Looking forward to the next round!

Mike

[potn_momma2]

thanks for all your hard work guys, and some really amazing photos up there!!! Can't wait!

[ErikM]

Could someone explain what a MAX shot is?

Thanks to all who have organized this book!

[cfpackerfan]

In each section, there is a signature shot that gets a full page, and introduces the share.
The next two pages are the Max shots. They each get their own page as well, but are not quite as large as the signature shot.

[Tareq]

Thank you very much all.
And Congratulations to all submitted winner shots!

[Tareq]

Too bad i didn't participate in Vol 1 and 2, so i am happy to do in Vol 3 and hope to continue in all next coming volumes.

I have photos ready for Vol 4 when it will be announced ;-)

[Tareq]

Where i can order those POTN volumes?

[SYS]

Where i can order those POTN volumes?

From www.blurb.com.

[SuzyView]

Congrats to all the people who got into the book. For those that didn't, there is always next Volume. Good work on the part of the staff. It was hard sometimes, and we were all pretty crazy. But all worth it. I'll be ordering 2 again.

[Tareq]

From www.blurb.com (http://www.blurb.com).

Thank you very much :-)

[Tareq]

I saw only 2 Book, both are Vol 2, what's the difference?
And where i can get vol 1?

[cfpackerfan]

here is for volume 1: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/invited/48727/4493981dbbdc0998087d6b90127cb64f

and for volume 2: (there are 2 options for volume 2. One with the GN section, one without)

without a G&N section: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/328352

including the G&N section: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/328383

[S.E.V.]

here is for volume 1: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/invited/48727/4493981dbbdc0998087d6b90127cb64f

and for volume 2: (there are 2 options for volume 2. One with the GN section, one without)

without a G&N section: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/328352

including the G&N section: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/328383


I was wondering the same ting. Thanks for the answer.;)

[Tareq]

here is for volume 1: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/invited/48727/4493981dbbdc0998087d6b90127cb64f

and for volume 2: (there are 2 options for volume 2. One with the GN section, one without)

without a G&N section: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/328352

including the G&N section: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/328383

Thank you very much

I noticed that one with 190 pages and the other is 198, so i guessed that there are missing pages, and that should be G&N, so one for adults and one for children ;):D

Thanks for Vol1 link :-)

[John Thawley]

I am not misunderstood. I totally get how the voting works. But I personally think that the entire book should be voted on by the potn as a whole through the voting process, that's all. One voting period for the whole book once the finalist for voting are chosen. I don't see the point of having the people how worked on the book vote. Do they get to vote twice? Once during all members voting period and once again for the second half? Is that fair?

Have you considered that by having the combination voting (not unlike the electoral college) that it helps prevent membership voting from turning things into a "popularity" contest?

Furthermore, the book needs to have a market value to the world outside the POTN membership. This system allows the "committee" to bring a balance to the overall presentation.

Lastly, and not knocking anyone, not all members are created equal or carry the same discerning opinion, or knowledge to properly critique photos. Popular vote can often distort the outcome by voting on a "wow" or "cool" factor.. and as stated earlier, popularity/friend rationale.

It's a book that represents the Forum... it's important that a balance of quality and marketing potential be considered.

I know you don't like this answer... but, as long as this is how it is established going in, you can choose to participate or not participate armed with the knowledge that the end will justify the means.

JT

[John Thawley]

On another note, I just discovered my image was selected as the Signature Image for the motorsports section. Thank you... it's an honor.

More than the honor, though, I must say, I'm humbled by the level of work displayed by others in the book. The quality makes the accomplishment that much more gratifying. As I say, I'm humbled. Thank you.

JT

[mikerault]

But, since the photos aren't associated with names during the voting process, how can a popularity factor count towards the selection, unless someone is cheating...

[Permagrin]

this is such a tight knit community that you can know someone's photo, just because you've seen it before. I recognized many even without names.

[Mike]

But, since the photos aren't associated with names during the voting process, how can a popularity factor count towards the selection, unless someone is cheating...

Exactly - I recognised a fair few people's photos. But while I recognised them I still judged on technical merits.

[ErikM]

Well said John.



Have you considered that by having the combination voting (not unlike the electoral college) that it helps prevent membership voting from turning things into a "popularity" contest?

Furthermore, the book needs to have a market value to the world outside the POTN membership. This system allows the "committee" to bring a balance to the overall presentation.

Lastly, and not knocking anyone, not all members are created equal or carry the same discerning opinion, or knowledge to properly critique photos. Popular vote can often distort the outcome by voting on a "wow" or "cool" factor.. and as stated earlier, popularity/friend rationale.

It's a book that represents the Forum... it's important that a balance of quality and marketing potential be considered.

I know you don't like this answer... but, as long as this is how it is established going in, you can choose to participate or not participate armed with the knowledge that the end will justify the means.

JT

[SYS]

Recently there was a "photography contest" sponsored by a local newspaper. The winner was chosen strictly based on the number of general public votes. The winning image, after months of waiting in anticipation, was a snap shot that came straight out of a P&S camera with no PP and badly needing extreme cropping, white balancing, and much more.

One lesson I got out of this experience was NEVER to enter any so-called photo contests based on populous voting only. I wouldn't have entered any of my images to the POTN Book project if it weren't for the fact that the two-tiered voting system was in place. My sentiment here is not meant to offend any of my dear fellow POTNers. In fact, three of my images made into the POTN Book based on the member votes and none from committee votes, so no offense intended.

[silvex]

Well, just to add my two cents. On vol1/2 I had two images selected on each by book committee. This time none...:( I personally *prefer* to be selected by committe, since it will be judge from ALL angles...:)

I do agree with the WOW factor, but some of these images selected by vote. Are just plain stuning. Look at the birds section. The snowyowl catching a mouse...you don't need a PHD from brooks or NYU to select that...;)

As far as recognizing some POTNers work. It is so easy...you can spot LordV in the macro forum , Freddy in the G/N forum a mile away (light miles that is ;) ).

So having 1/2 and 1/2 sort balances things out...

[Blue Deuce]

Well, just to add my two cents. On vol1/2 I had two images selected on each by book committee. This time none...:( I personally *prefer* to be selected by committe, since it will be judge from ALL angles...:)

I do agree with the WOW factor, but some of these images selected by vote. Are just plain stuning. Look at the birds section. The snowyowl catching a mouse...you don't need a PHD from brooks or NYU to select that...;)

As far as recognizing some POTNers work. It is so easy...you can spot LordV in the macro forum , Freddy in the G/N forum a mile away (light miles that is ;) ).

So having 1/2 and 1/2 sort balances things out...

Thanks for the prop about my Snowy ;).

I was fortunate to have a max for wildlife and the signature for birds in Vol. II. This year my submitted images were deemed worthy of three signature photos ( I am sincerely humbled ). I am fine with the voting process but not because I have been selected. Actually a couple of my photos which I thought were pretty good never even made it to the voting stage in their respective sections so I have been on both sides of the fence.. I think between the two manners of voting it strikes a fair balance across the board with all the categories.. That said I really don't have anything up my sleeve as of yet for Vol. IV. If none of my future submissions are chosen that will just motivate me to work harder, not look for the flaws in a system when I know the rules going in. For me it's really not about winning this contest or that contest, it's about constantly trying improving myself.

Thanks to all on the book committee for your tireless efforts and congratulations to those photographers whose photos will appear. To those not selected good luck next time but never give up trying.

Just my 2 cents which isn't worth much now days.

[John Thawley]

Just my 2 cents which isn't worth much now days.

Sit tight... that stimulus check is coming your way.... should knock you down to a cent and a half at least. ;)

[-g-]

This year my submitted images were deemed worthy of three signature photos

Wow! Congratulations!

[FlyingPhotog]

I've no issue with the voting...

Just very pleased (and humbled) that I made it in twice on my first effort.

[SYS]

Thanks for the prop about my Snowy ;).

I was fortunate to have a max for wildlife and the signature for birds in Vol. II. This year my submitted images were deemed worthy of three signature photos ( I am sincerely humbled ).

Your images WOW'ed me and certainly deserved all the honors!! :D

[Jman13]

Congrats, everyone who made it, and a huge thank you to those who work on this project. It's a wonderful way to show what we all do here on these forums. I'll be very excited to show my wife the book, who is continually saying "seriously...photography forums again?"

I am humbled to have three of my images selected, among all the great talent that's here. The signature shots...WOW. Spectacular photography. I hope one day to take a single image as good as any one of those.

[DozerLYP]

Thank you to the book crew for all your hard work and for including 3 of my images in the book. I'm very happy about it. And congrats to all the other Images selected too.

[silvex]

Thanks for the prop about my Snowy ;).



I take it the mouse is not longer available for autographs...:)

[SeattleSpeedster]

truly amazing shots everyone....and lots of hard work from the committee

thanks for including my kitty girl and my solo floating red maple leaf

[jcumming]

Thanks to all who voted for my pic, it's probably the coolest thing that's happened to me since I picked up a camera.

Jim

[OiPaz]

Thanks to all who voted for my pic, it's probably the coolest thing that's happened to me since I picked up a camera.
Agreed!
Thanks to everyone involved, including of course the committee. :D

[Robuk]

I'm really happy to get an image in Motorsport, and thats three books on the trot now :D

I thought I had some other "decent images", but seeing the quality of the images entered this year :D, it has given me a great kick to start improving my photography.

As one of the PM's I judged on the overall picture after we were given things to look out for by our seniors in the judging. I as well as all the other PM's judged photos on these points and I'm positive no favouritism was given, as this shows by the excellent quality that is in Book III.......

This system works "so don't break something that isn't broken"!!!!

Rob

[Derweissehai]

Just want to say thank you from a humbled photographer for all the votes and being selected to appear in the book. Best news I have had in the last month or so. Can't wait for the printing and pre-order.

[ben_r_]

YAY!!!! I actually got a couple in!!!! AWESOME! Great job everyone and congrats!!! I cant wait to buy this years book!

[dilorenzo1954]

Any word on what shots will be used on the back cover, ala Vol2?

[cfpackerfan]

Any word on what shots will be used on the back cover, ala Vol2?The back cover will be a duck mosaic: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=582739&highlight=back+cover+duck

All duck images that were submitted will be used.

[yltan]

While I am happy for all the winners, I am a bit sad mine was included. Better try next time I guess...!
The pictures are certainly impressive!

[Permagrin]

While I am happy for all the winners, I am a bit sad mine was included. Better try next time I guess...!
The pictures are certainly impressive!

you're sad yours was included?

[Tareq]

you're sad yours was included?

LOL, same question here?