Is this a plan?

[Joan Lovell]

I'm just moving into DSLR after many happy years with my Sony 707 for snapshot purposes. I've had a few occasions recently where I've needed to take photos for work - and a few commercial opportunities have grown out of this, so I think I'm ready to make my move.

To get started, the plan is....
Canon 20D
1 Gig memory card
extra battery
Tamron 28-300 mm lens

New computer (I don't know much about this so I might be listing unecessary info):
HP, 200 GB ATA hard drive
PC3200 DDR SDRAM
RAM (2 GB
Pentium 4, speed 3GHz

Monitor:
Samyung CRT - A91ft

Printer:
HP 8450 (7 inks)

Then, thinking I might need a scanner at some point, and wanting to get the whole purchase over with so I can stop feeling sick about the money:
Scanner:
HP 4070 (2400x2400) resolution.

The Epson scanner 4180 looks to be very cool at 4800x9600 but I understand I would need an Epson printer and I haven't looked into that yet.

Would anyone give me feedback on this? I am going to run my card up and I don't want to have to upgrade for a few years - except maybe to add lenses.
TIA
Joan

[scottbergerphoto]

Obviously your choice of camera is excellent. :D
The only comment I will make other then that, is that you are buying alot of new things that are very technical and require learning how to use. I would suggest buying the camera stuff and when you have its intricacies down pat, add new things. Otherwise you might find yourself in RTFM oblivion.
Scott

[Andy_T]

Hi Joan,

welcome to the forum :D

I can only comment on the first part of your list...

Generally, so-called 'Hyperzooms' (zooms with a very long zoom range, e.g. 28-300) do not give the greatest picture quality.

This is because it is difficult to construct a zoom that delivers good image quality in all zoom ranges. Normally, lenses are sharper in the middle range and not so sharp at the extremes (especially max telephoto).

Take a look at this article (http://www.e-fotografija.com/artman/publish/article_306.shtml),(actually it's about the Canon 70-300 DO, but the Tamron is used as comparison there) ... you will notice that the pictures are not very sharp.

For this very reason, SLRs allow you to swap lenses. Unless you really absolutely do not want to have two lenses and switch between them, you will be better off with more lenses with shorter zooms.

In addition, bear in mind that with the 1.6 crop factor, a 28-300 lens gives you the same coverage as a 45-480 lens, maybe not wide enough on the wide end. For this reason, the 18-55 kit lens is a great and inexpensive choice that will give you a lot better image quality than the 28-300.

So my suggestion would be to get the 18-55 kit lens and the Tamron 28-75/2.8 XR (a great lens) to cover the 'normal area' in very good quality. If you really need to have a long zoom lens, you could get a cheap but decent lens like the Sigma 70-300 APO or Canon 75-300 or 55-200.

Best regards,
Andy

[Joan Lovell]

Thanks Scott. I need a new computer because my kids have completely screwed up our old one with special settings for games and junk they've downloaded which seem to attract viruses.

I figured I needed to get a new printer because I wouldn't be able to see the results of my "better" pictures without a more finely tuned instrument.

Otherwise, I'd agree. AND the other confounding factor is a plan to get Photoshop CS (which I understand I NEED in order to process RAW) Talk about a learning curve. Fortunately I HAVE worked with Photoshop 7 for a while.

Joan

[Joan Lovell]

Oh - this is great. I'm so glad I joined!
Thanks Andy - I will certainly rethink my lens choice.

[Andy_T]

Joan,

you don't need Photoshop CS.
You can convert your RAW images in Canon's enclosed software and then work with the pictures in Photoshop 7.

Best regards,
Andy

[Joan Lovell]

THERE'S a savings!!! Thanks.
Joan

[Tom W]

Thanks Scott. I need a new computer because my kids have completely screwed up our old one with special settings for games and junk they've downloaded which seem to attract viruses.

I figured I needed to get a new printer because I wouldn't be able to see the results of my "better" pictures without a more finely tuned instrument.

Otherwise, I'd agree. AND the other confounding factor is a plan to get Photoshop CS (which I understand I NEED in order to process RAW) Talk about a learning curve. Fortunately I HAVE worked with Photoshop 7 for a while.

Joan

If you do get a new computer, let the kids keep the old one. Otherwise, kids+internet=clogged computer. That's just the nature of young'uns and the internet. And, use a good antivirus program religously. Plus, run Spybot Search and Destroy as well as Ad-Aware CS to get rid of as much spyware as possible. The internet has become something of a virus on its own.

You will get both EOS View Utility software and Digital Photo Professional software with the camera - both will process RAW files. Another option is Photoshop Elements 3 - not as expensive as CS and not as feature-packed. But it will process RAW files.

[Joan Lovell]

I know what you mean about the little darlings. Actually I was thiking of keeping MY computer totally dedicated and use theirs (or the one at work - like right now instead of working) if I'm internetting.
Thanks for the RAW tips. I haven't been exposed (ha!) to RAW at all yet.
Joan

[snibbetsj]

I would second the choice of the Tamron 28-75 and probably opt for a Canon 70-300 USM instead of the 28-300. I would also check into a Canon or Epson printer instead of the HP. You may also save a pretty good chunk of cash if you go for a Dell or build it yourself (see www.sysbuilder.com (http://www.sysbuilder.com) which I use) instead of the HP computer. I use PSE 3 instead of CS and am pretty happy with it.

Good luck! :)

[Joan Lovell]

Thanks Jeff. Those are options I hadn't thought of - and working at a university I can get an educational discount on a Dell!
Thanks

[skyphix]

I know what you mean about the little darlings. Actually I was thiking of keeping MY computer totally dedicated and use theirs (or the one at work - like right now instead of working) if I'm internetting.
Thanks for the RAW tips. I haven't been exposed (ha!) to RAW at all yet.
Joan

I was going to strongly suggest using yours only for your use and let the kids keep their own. With the cost of networking gear going down and ease of use going up, there is almost no reason not to (besides space limitations). Plus, even as a network administrator (and general computer geek) I'd trust the BestBuy "Geek Squad" to do work in my house if I didn't want to. I've heard nothing but good things, even from other IT Professionals that have had to call on them for long distance family members when phone support wasn't enough.

The computer you've built sounds great (even better than mine - I'm jealous!). My only suggestion, especially for a lot of photo processing is upgrading to an SATA hard drive instead of the ATA and potentially cutting back a bit on storage (120GB is more than enough for me and I have ~20 DVD's backed up to my computer as well as all my photos and various other pieces of software) to keep the price about the same. The speed increase is very noticable and you will enjoy it. You may be able to get a bit better of a deal through Dell as someone previously stated but there is nothing wrong with HP's that isn't wrong with their competitors (here at work thats all we use, and mostly what I support all day)

As far as your choice of Camera, big thumbs up to that. No experience with the lens (or camera either, really) so I wont comment much here.

I'm curious also about what scanner to get. I'm looking to grab one shortly and am looking forward to the feedback there.

[Tom W]

I have to stand up in favor of Dell as well - I've got two of them and they both work very well.

[Joan Lovell]

Yikes - there IS a lot to learn. SATA it is. Thanks!
Joan

[CyberDyneSystems]

One more thought on the PC hardware,..

HP printers... come in a very distant third in popularity on these forums.
The membership on the whole is split about 40/40 Epson/Canon inkjet printers... leaving the remianing 20% or so for all other brands.

I myself am partial to the Canon printers as I find they are more reliable, faster, and quicker. (and personally I think they make better color prints)

Epsons plusses are more universal adoption,. longer lasting prints, and more readily available consumables. (well more options anyway)

[Joan Lovell]

Any recommendation on papers you like to use?

[roanjohn]

Good choice on the camera!!! Not so good on the lens :-( Why not get the camera with the kit lens and the 70-200 f4L (for a bit more cash). Also, don't forget that the 20D should come bundled with Photoshop Elements ;-)

I would agree with the Dell........and they have excellent flat panel ultrasharp displays that will give you more space than a CRT monitor. Also, google dell coupons and you should be able to find some excellent deals before you buy.

And lastly, am not too crazy about HP printers.......you're better off buying an Epson or Canon.........though I would lean more towards the Canon..........i9900......8 inks!!! :-)

Ro1

[Joan Lovell]

Thanks - re monitor - from what I've read CRT monitors are best for photo editing. Is that true?
Joan

[Andrew Pratt]

I'm much stronger on the PC side then camera's so I'll leave that to the more seasoned guys here but I can speak about the PC's. I've avoid HP, Compaq and most other big brand names if possible. Dell's a good alternative as you can often get exceptional deals with the coupons that they always seem to have and you can customize them to a certian degree. I used to custom build my own PC's but since both my wife and I are now using laptops we're using Dells now. IBM's another alternative as well but they tend to be more expensive...though the build quality is very good. For what you need a SATA 7200 RPM hard drive is a must...and you might as well go for a good sized model while you're at it. The Pentium 4 CPU will be fine just don't buy a Celeron chip. Ram is where you'll see your biggest gains with photo work so you'll want at least a gig of fast ram. Now you have some options here as you can order it through dell or buy 3rd party. The advantage to buying though dell is that its easier and is supported by their warrenty...the downside is its significantly more expensive unless they've got some double your ram coupon going on (which they sometimes do). There's a few websites like Crucial's (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listProductLine.asp?cat=RAM&mfr=Dell&submit=Go+to+step+2+%3E) that you can buy ram that's been tested for your machine so you'll know it will work. Crucial ram is very good qualtiy and should be cheaper then Dell's offerings. What many of us do is order as little ram from Dell as possible and buy 3rd party ram to us in our machines. You have to keep the old ram sticks though in case there's ever a problem as Dell is usually sticky about supporting your machine if it contains parts that didn't come from dell...though that's less of an issue if its crucial ram. If you have any questions about the PC, coupon locations etc just send me an email and I'll do what I can to help out.

[Todd Jacobsen]

Yikes - there IS a lot to learn. SATA it is. Thanks!
Joan

Not just SATA, SATA RAID 5...stay away from RAID 0.

[Andy_T]

Joan,

I would agree that CRT monitors are the way to go for photo editing.
Unfortunately, I can't tell you if the one you selected is a good one :o
Hopefully there are other knowledgeable contributors on that one...

Another goodie you might think about is some kind of monitor calibration tool (e.g. Spyder).
But let's not overdo it in the beginning :wink:

Last (but certainly not least)... I'd emphasize that a good graphics card (good for photography, not necessarily good for games) makes a lot of difference.
I am very happy with a Matrox Parhelia.

Best regards,
Andy

[skyphix]

Not just SATA, SATA RAID 5...stay away from RAID 0.

Heh, I was trying to keep the cost/geek factor low :D

[Jon]

RAID's probably overkill. As long as you have a consciencious backup plan in place, it won't add markedly to your data security. If you have lots of RAM, it won't make a real difference in performance, either. Most still image-processing is memory-intensive; if you're short on RAM, it'll need to swap to disk, and a faster disk solution will help. But if you have enough memory that won't be an issue.

Is that supposed to be "Samsung" on the monitor? In general, a CRT will be easier to work with, won't impose viewing angle problems, will be more amenable to running at different resolutions, and will be a lot cheaper. I used to swear by Hitachi (CRT & LCD), but they're out of that business now. Currently, I think NEC and Samsung are among the better ones out there in both types.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sata RAID 5? Isn't that very pricey?

[Jon]

Sata RAID 5? Isn't that very pricey?

Any RAID 5 is pricey! I think the term's an oxymoron. I'd rather have an external drive dnd DVD burner to back up to, and lots of lovely, fast Crucial RAM!

[Joan Lovell]

Yes it was Samsung. I liked the image and it's not too huge. Also - under $200.

[Joan Lovell]

Unfortunately I have to go now, but thanks to all! I am VERY appreciative.
Joan

[Andy_T]

Be back tomorrow :D

Best regards,
Andy

[Pekka]

Because my old Eizo is showing signs of retirement in color and contrast department I have done a lot of research about TFT monitors. In short, I decided to go for two 19" screens instead of one big one, and in those the best choice seems (within normal budget) to be Samsung 193P. There are not many real reviews about LCD's from photographer's perspective but this one is fairly informative: http://www.pcunleash.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=MyItemReview&no=51 and also http://www.ipkonfig.com/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=132&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=0 . Usually the reviewers do not really know what to review and they amost never see good grayscale and color space reproduction more important than gaming speed. The differences are not even clear to manufacturers, I called Samsung to ask what is the real difference and target group between 910T and 193P and they could not really say any! Only thing I got out was that 193P has zero defective pixel warranty, slightly better grayscale reproduction and wider viewing angle. Information like color gamut is not available, although tests in Finnish magazines show that Samsungs cover sRGB fine.

LCD displays can be calibrated and they benefit from it a lot. See http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20040326/lcd-04.html

I haven't made up my mind yet. Samsung announced 193P Plus in Cebit and it has again better contrast and 8m speed (they'll have 4ms models, too). Is newer better? In LCD's it may not be. Samsung told me that if the speed is fast, image quality will suffer - it's a compromise.

Has anyone compared Samsung 910T and 193P side by side in photo usage?

[mdm]

Not so fast on the computer. AMD and CELERON chips are not that bad. You might want to consider having a close friend build you a unit. I keep building new units to stay current for online game playing. When I build a new unit it usually between 200 to 300 bucks to have a downright killer machine. Of course that is computer only, monitor extra. Find a trust worthy friend that will help you. Just make sure your computer has at least 1 gig ram. I'll agree that the ram is important and DELL is not that bad of a company since I have one of their laptops. Save you cash for your new lens.