First Wedding Saturday (Large Group Shot: 40 People)

[bakerbranded]

Hey everyone,
Well my first wedding is this Saturday and I'm excited.
But I found that the B&B want a family shot of about 40 people in front of the church sanctuary.

What I will have to shoot with for light is:
580EX II On camera and another 580EX II off camera with a lightstnad that can raise to ten feet and a white shoot through umbrella with removable black cover that is 45". All being set off by Cybersyncs. If I had a second reciever I would set up two light stands but this is not the case.

With this setup what would you do to make it work?

Thanks,
Scott

[tim]

There have been two threads about this in the past two days, I don't mean to be unhelpful but if you check the wedding forum and the lighting forum you'll find a few threads about it. Here's one (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=651540).

Summary: it's harder than you think, and you need to experiment in advance preferably with 2-3 people so you can simulate groups. Personally i'd try for high iso and flash bounced from the ceiling, but if that didn't work i'd put a diffused flash high about me and use that as the only light. You just have to beware of shadows on the people in the back, and less light falling on them than on the people in the front. Or shoot ambient high ISO. Remember you want at least F5.6 for good DOF. Putting a light to one side guarantees shadows.

Do you still only have 4GB CF?

[randplaty]

40 ppl might be too much for 45". Not sure though really depends on the situation. Make sure your umbrella is as high as possible.

[bakerbranded]

There have been two threads about this in the past two days, I don't mean to be unhelpful but if you check the wedding forum and the lighting forum you'll find a few threads about it. Here's one (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=651540).

Summary: it's harder than you think, and you need to experiment in advance preferably with 2-3 people so you can simulate groups. Personally i'd try for high iso and flash bounced from the ceiling, but if that didn't work i'd put a diffused flash high about me and use that as the only light. You just have to beware of shadows on the people in the back, and less light falling on them than on the people in the front. Or shoot ambient high ISO. Remember you want at least F5.6 for good DOF. Putting a light to one side guarantees shadows.

Do you still only have 4GB CF?

No Tim that is very helpful, thanks I"ll check into those. :)
And no I knew it was going to be hard, since they told me today, lol. Also I will have an assistant and two others who can help in the beginning so that will work. I will definably try you options as well. And thnaks for the reminder on the f5.6.

And no, I didn't update my list since I got my two 8GB Kingston CF Cards today. So I know have 20GB. One 8 for each camera and the 4 as a back up emergency card.

Thanks again Tim :D

[bakerbranded]

40 ppl might be too much for 45". Not sure though really depends on the situation. Make sure your umbrella is as high as possible.


I had a feeling I was going to have to raise it high. Thanks!

[SuzyView]

Do you have a place to take the picture with stairs or you can have a ladder?

[form]

40 people, 1 umbrella? Try 2 umbrellas at least, and also 2 lights or more going directly on the people. Your setup is not practical for the purpose unless (as tim said) you can bounce the flashes off the ceiling. The single light source (umbrella) is too limited in size and spread to do a very good job with 40 people.

[bakerbranded]

Do you have a place to take the picture with stairs or you can have a ladder?

I have never been to the church as it is 3 hours from my house but I have decided to take a ladder with me just in case. I will have about 3 hours before the ceremony to practice and prepare.

[bakerbranded]

40 people, 1 umbrella? Try 2 umbrellas at least, and also 2 lights or more going directly on the people. Your setup is not practical for the purpose unless (as tim said) you can bounce the flashes off the ceiling.

This is my concern. I called the Bride today to let her know that I will try my best on this as I have never done a group this large. So I will be taking Tims response into count.

[form]

Also if you do only have 4gb of flash memory you're really not able to do more than an hour of shooting.

[bakerbranded]

Also if you do only have 4gb of flash memory you're really not able to do more than an hour of shooting.

Gear List Updated :p

[tim]

Single light up high with high ISO should be ok. 800 if you can manage it, 1600 if you need to. Multiple lights can cause more problems than the solve if they're not coming from the right direction.

[form]

Using that lightingsetup.psd I got from this forum a while back, here's a basic setup I would use if I had only two lights for this situation. Ideally, I would use extra flashes to add edge lights behind the subjects. If you want to be creative, please feel free to NOT leave the people in such a static and boring alignment - but keep them within similar ranges from the lights. You can also use a ladder and shoot them from above.

[SuzyView]

That's probably a good set up. I've seen it done with 1 large umbrella, but it's not as good.

[randplaty]

that could work... so the shadows from the two lights don't get in each others way...

But I think he only has one light.

Just do the one light high up, maybe about 5 feet away from you, not too far otherwise you'll only light up half of the group. High ISO depending on how bright it is... and shoot away.

[form]

He has two lights but only one stand and umbrella. Umbrellas are really inexpensive and stands aren't too bad.

I have another idea that would work if he has a large white wall/ceiling to bounce off of (obviously if there's a white ceiling the same thing would work for that):

[tim]

Look at the shadows from the people in the front row in the first diagram, they show that shadows will be on the faces of people in the 2nd row.

Try this with cans of food/drink set up in place of people, and direct light sources to show clearly how the lighting will fall.

[randplaty]

He has two lights but only one stand and umbrella. Umbrellas are really inexpensive and stands aren't too bad.

I have another idea that would work if he has a large white wall/ceiling to bounce off of (obviously if there's a white ceiling the same thing would work for that):


He says he doesn't have a second receiver...

[mattograph]

An alternate, edgy thought.

Get two cloudy tupperware bowls to make some ghetto stofens / gary fongs.

Cut holes in the bottom, and pop a flash in each one.

Put one camera left and one camera right, about 3 ft forward of the group and about 6 ft in the air. Get them just outside the frame.

Adjust power accordingly and fire away.

[form]

He doesn't need a second receiver for the second idea: One is on camera, the other is on the stand.

[breadandbutter]

Are we assuming he absolutely needs the strobes?
Because he does not mention what time of the day the group shot will take place or perhaps I have hopes that this will take place during a nice time of the day and have plenty of light in the shade with a nice background.

[tim]

An alternate, edgy thought.

Get two cloudy tupperware bowls to make some ghetto stofens / gary fongs.

Cut holes in the bottom, and pop a flash in each one.

Put one camera left and one camera right, about 3 ft forward of the group and about 6 ft in the air. Get them just outside the frame.

Adjust power accordingly and fire away.

How do you imagine these will help? The idea is diffusers is they increase the size of the light source but direct the light towards the subject, those things are tiny so they don't help in that way, plus they waste a lot of light. Overall I think direct flash would be more effective.

[SuzyView]

We've had these discussions before. Diffusers do their job but you lose light because of it. With so many people, let's just hope the natural light is nice that day.

[mattograph]

How do you imagine these will help? The idea is diffusers is they increase the size of the light source but direct the light towards the subject, those things are tiny so they don't help in that way, plus they waste a lot of light. Overall I think direct flash would be more effective.

Tim, you know those little lights are extremely powerful. In the right environment, with the light bouncing this way and that, you can get a very pleasing effect.

Actually, I do need a little more information to know whether my idea would work.

Indoors?

If so, size of room and ceilings....

Outdoors?

Shade or direct sun.


If this was shot indoors with fairly standard ceiling heights, I have no doubt my idea would work.

However, if this is outdoors or large interior -- my idea might fall flat.

[tim]

Tim, you know those little lights are extremely powerful. In the right environment, with the light bouncing this way and that, you can get a very pleasing effect.

Actually, I do need a little more information to know whether my idea would work.

Indoors?

If so, size of room and ceilings....

Outdoors?

Shade or direct sun.


If this was shot indoors with fairly standard ceiling heights, I have no doubt my idea would work.

However, if this is outdoors or large interior -- my idea might fall flat.

Read the first post of the thread. It's in a church, which are mostly large and dark, so bouncing is almost certainly out.

[mattograph]

Hey everyone,
Well my first wedding is this Saturday and I'm excited.
But I found that the B&B want a family shot of about 40 people in front of the church sanctuary.




I was thinking that could be inside / outside, low ceiling / high ceiling.

If he said "altar" my mind fixes on a normally much bigger space.

[breadandbutter]

Read the first post of the thread. It's in a church, which are mostly large and dark, so bouncing is almost certainly out.


Just to be more specific he does says its in front of the church sanctuary. No information as to what part of the day though.

[tim]

Fong dongs waste light, no matter what the area is with 40 people you don't want to throw your light everywhere, you want it to go where you want it. Speedlites are reasonably powerful for their size, but to light a group of 40 people takes a fair bit of power.

Usually once people start to understand light they throw those things away. I used one for my first and second wedding then threw it into my cupboard and never touched it again.

[mattograph]

Fong dongs waste light, no matter what the area is with 40 people you don't want to throw your light everywhere, you want it to go where you want it. Speedlites are reasonably powerful for their size, but to light a group of 40 people takes a fair bit of power.

Usually once people start to understand light they throw those things away. I used one for my first and second wedding then threw it into my cupboard and never touched it again.

Ouch.:(

[tim]

Sorry mate it wasn't a dig. I rewrote that second part three times to try to make it sound nicer but that's the best I could do. Honestly, fong dong type diffusers have serious drawbacks, like wasting a LOT of light, and not providing any significant diffusion. They work pretty well under ideal circumstances, which is small rooms with a white ceiling and light colored walls, but otherwise they're just a waste of flash power and money.

[mattograph]

I know. Just tugging your string a little..... :)

[randplaty]

Sorry mate it wasn't a dig. I rewrote that second part three times to try to make it sound nicer but that's the best I could do. Honestly, fong dong type diffusers have serious drawbacks, like wasting a LOT of light, and not providing any significant diffusion. They work pretty well under ideal circumstances, which is small rooms with a white ceiling and light colored walls, but otherwise they're just a waste of flash power and money.

100% agree. They're only good for very limited applications.