panoramic pictures with fisheye

[FattMarrell]

Okay so I'm pretty new to this so bear with me!
I just got the new 8.0mgpxl rebel xt eos. I also got an ef fisheye lens for it. I bought these things so I can create virtual tours.
Here's my problem, I can't seem to get a full 180* shot at all. This camera seems to lack many shooting options that the coolpix has. Meaning being able to select lens type, exposure options, white balances...etc. The menu on this thing is SOOOO limited. I know the firmware is upgradeable, but it seems too new for anything new to be out.
Anybody have any sugestions at getting these pictures more of a fov? Or any suggestions at all for this type of stuff?
p.s. dont worry about the software, I have all that stuff.
Thanks in advance!

[Jon]

You won't be able to get a full 180 degree shot with the Canon EF 15 fisheye because it's designed to cover a full-frame 35 mm (24 x 36 mm) format. The DRXT has only about a 15x22.5 mm sensor, so it only takes in the center part of the image. You may find that using a longer lens, a panoramic head, and photo-stitch software will give you what you want. Try a search here for "virtual reality".

As for the rest of your problems, when you use the "Basic" (Green box and pictogram) modes, you get a restricted menu. If you use the "Creative" modes (p, Tv, Av, A-DEP, M), you'll find your menu options increase greatly, including ISO, image resolution (including RAW), white balances. Exposure compensation isn't set through the Menu system. You adjust that directly using the dial/directional buttons on the back. The camera reads the lens information directly from the lens, so there's nothing to set.

[FattMarrell]

ah! the menus! Thank's Jon. Crap now I need a new lens....

[prime80]

Multiple image panoramas are a snap in Photoshop. The included software with your camera will do them as well, but I haven't tried that yet.

[FattMarrell]

I have software to stitch fisheye photo's together, I just need the correct lens that will do 180 degree shots. The software will only allow 3 shots (more than enough if you have 180X3) Jon you mensioned a longer lens and a panoramic head? These are available for the xt?
Possibly has anyone gotten any setup for this camera that allowed them to do this?

[HKFEVER]

You need a FF DSLR with 15mm or 8mm fisheye. Not 1.6X 350XT.

[FattMarrell]

does this mean I need a new camera too??? There's absolutely no way to get full 180 degree panoramas with this camera? I'm trying to research as much as I can right now... any inputs will still help..
Thanks HKFever for some info :)

[HKFEVER]

Yes, you need to have a FF DSLR, because one of my friend bought my previous 1DSMKII in Germany for the same application as you are doing.

But I am not sure what software he use.

He also bought 8mm circular fisheye from Sigma + 15mm fisheye from Canon.

[rdenney]

I have software to stitch fisheye photo's together, I just need the correct lens that will do 180 degree shots. The software will only allow 3 shots (more than enough if you have 180X3) Jon you mensioned a longer lens and a panoramic head? These are available for the xt?
Possibly has anyone gotten any setup for this camera that allowed them to do this?

So-called "full-frame" fisheyes only have 180-degree coverage corner to corner, and then only for the format for which they were designed. Thus, the 15mm Canon fisheye, the 16mm Zenitar, and other full-frame fisheyes won't give you 180-degree coverage except in the corners, even on a full-frame camera like the 1Ds.

The alternative is "circular" fisheyes. These tend to be in the 8mm focal range. A reasonably good cheap one is the 8mm Peleng, made in Russia (www.kievcamera.com). But it provides the circular image only on a full 35mm frame. On an APS sensor like the Digital Rebel, it will cut off a bit of the circular image at top and bottom and also a small amount from each side. Because of that, you won't quite get the full 180-degree coverage.

I've had a lot of trouble making panoramas from fisheye images, even though I'm a huge full-frame fisheye fan. The reason is that the edges are so curved that there's no way to stitch the images without first defishing them. And then you give up a lot of the coverage of the lens.

I have had better success with rectilinear wide-angle lenses, even when I have to correct for a bit of barrel distortion. In this image:

http://www.rickdenney.com/images/ranier-ridge-panorama-lores.jpg

I stitched together nine vertical-format images made with a 20-35 USM zoom set to 20. I had to correct for the barrel distortion of that lens, and then I had to project the rectilinear images onto a cylindrical projection. I used an old version of PanaVue to perform both of these tasks. The result is similar to what you'd get with a swing-lens panoramic camera, and that may not at all be what you need for your visual tours.

The coverage in this photo is right at 180 degrees, by the way. And the resulting image is about 2500 pixels by 12,000 pixels. PanaVue did well--even after the warping, it looks pretty good right down to the pixel level.

Rick "who also regularly uses a 30mm full-frame fisheye in medium format" Denney

[FattMarrell]

What does FF stand for?
Did your friend use both lenses for this application?

[rdenney]

What does FF stand for?
Did your friend use both lenses for this application?

FF=Full Frame. Either a full-frame fisheye (that provides 180-degree field of view only corner to corner) or full-frame sensor, such as the 24x36mm sensor in the 1Ds.

Rick "HTH" Denney

[FattMarrell]

wow rick thank you for taking the time to post all that info. I checked out the Kievecamera site, and jeesus, they do have them at great prices. Unfortunaltely like you said, I probably wont be able to use this for what I'm trying to do.

At this point I don't care if it is fisheye (although it's soooooo apealing :D ) I just need a lense that will allow me to have a real nice 180 degree shot. Stitching numerous photos will work but takes too much time, I will need to create these things fast.
I know with eliminating fisheye, eliminates top and bottom visuality, who cares, as long as I can pan around in 360.

[rdenney]

wow rick thank you for taking the time to post all that info. I checked out the Kievecamera site, and jeesus, they do have them at great prices. Unfortunaltely like you said, I probably wont be able to use this for what I'm trying to do.

At this point I don't care if it is fisheye (although it's soooooo apealing :D ) I just need a lense that will allow me to have a real nice 180 degree shot. Stitching numerous photos will work but takes too much time, I will need to create these things fast.
I know with eliminating fisheye, eliminates top and bottom visuality, who cares, as long as I can pan around in 360.

Actually, it's much easier than you think. Now that I have a lens correction (for that 20-35 at 20), I can process images as easily as adding them to the job, arranging them, and letting the software do the rest. For the image I showed you, in production mode, it would have taken 15 minutes, tops. And it would be faster if you started with lower resolution images. I was using full-res 10D images, freshly converted from RAW. It's a lot harder to describe than it is to do. And I'll bet that the software is easier to use now. My version of Panavue is a couple of years old.

But if you got the Canon EF-S 10-22, I think you'd have about a 100-degree horizontal rectilinear field of view at 10. You should be able to get 180 degrees easily with two images, and the full circle with four. And the stitch lines would be straight.

Rick "offering alternatives" Denney

[the7ferret]

you might want to take more than just 2-4 shots, since the wider you go the more distortion you will get at the edges. and thus the odder the picture will look once stiched. Unless of course thats what your looking for.

[FattMarrell]

I'm really going to start thinking about the Canon EF-S 10-22 that Rick suggested. Somehow I need to see if I can exchange my lens, anybody know of good excuses to return a 600 dollar lens? lol :cry:

[pcasciola]

I'm really going to start thinking about the Canon EF-S 10-22 that Rick suggested. Somehow I need to see if I can exchange my lens, anybody know of good excuses to return a 600 dollar lens? lol :cry:If you bought it from a reputable place they should have no problems exchanging it for something else. I just got my 10-22 and I haven't really had a chance to see what it can do, but I've already seen how wide it is on my 20D which is a 1.6x crop camera like yours, and wow, it's wide. Not 180 degrees, but widest I've ever seen by quite a bit since I bought my 20D.

If you are looking to do full 360 pans, I came across this the other day. I no nothing about it, but it might be worth a look. I was thinking about renting one for a few days to try it out.

www.0-360.com (http://www.0-360.com/)

[rdenney]

you might want to take more than just 2-4 shots, since the wider you go the more distortion you will get at the edges. and thus the odder the picture will look once stiched. Unless of course thats what your looking for.

If you use software that does more than just stitch, it will correct for this. Panavue will warp the images into a cylindrical projection instead of the rectilinear projection. The result is like a swing-lens panoramic camera, and unless something moved between the images (like the blasted clouds in my example above, which required lots of work), the stitches will be invisible.

That image is the first software-generated panorama that really worked for me, but I have some others that are in the queue now that I've figured it out.

Rick "for whom rectilinear project only looks natural with architectural subjects" Denney

[FattMarrell]

OH man I wish my camera supported this thing
http://www.remotereality.com/vtprod/oneshot.html
I sent them an email but I doubt it fits.

[DocFrankenstein]

You have some interesting ideas about making panoramas. Mainly because you choose a lens with the most distortion.

If I were doing it, I'd probabably get something relatively wide angle with the least distortion possible. Then I'd stitch everything with software.

If you do a lot of them, a leveling base and a panorama head would be a good investment.

I've only encountered 3 leveling bases. IMO the Gitzo 1321 is the best solution.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=166859&is=REG

As to panorama head... you can save money with some woodshop skills.

[pcasciola]

OH man I wish my camera supported this thing
http://www.remotereality.com/vtprod/oneshot.html
I sent them an email but I doubt it fits.Huh? Did you miss the link I posted above? It's pretty much the same exact device you posted, but designed to attach to the front of a dSLR lens with the filter threads.

[DocFrankenstein]

www.0-360.com (http://www.0-360.com/)
For 600 bucks I don't think the quality is there

[pcasciola]

For 600 bucks I don't think the quality is thereYou're probably right. Hell, it just looks like a mirror on a stick, but it's cheaper than IPIX for producing 360 degrees panoramas, and for web resolution, it looks acceptable from the samples on the site:

http://www.0-360.com/gallery.asp

I wonder if there is just software that can do the 360 degree active web panoramas using multiple frames from a super wide angle like my 10-22?

[FattMarrell]

I know but they're all sold out at the 0-360 for at least another 6 weeks :(

[pcasciola]

I know but they're all sold out at the 0-360 for at least another 6 weeks :(Wow, really? There was a thread on FM forums about that thing a while back. I wonder if it caused a rush of orders?

I think the best solution for 360 degree panoramas without spending tons of money will be the 10-22 and a good tripod. A quick search on google turned up tons of software that does this with multiple stitched images.

[HKFEVER]

So far you guys is talking about 360 degree wrap around.

The one that I mentioned is half sphere, then joint 2 half sphere together to become a full sphere VT.:p

I email my friend in Germany to get the set up and software info. But he is in location somewhere....:cry:

[pcasciola]

Thanks, HK. The Sigma 8mm might actually work well on the 1.6x camera, because it produces a completely circular image on a full frame, and the 1.6x sensor is about as wide as a full frame sensor is tall.

I just read this about the Simga 8mm:
"180 degree view in all directions in a 22.08mm circle"

So, that should fit width-wise on the 1.6x. Cool.

[FattMarrell]

hmmmm, interesting.....

[pcasciola]

I came across this photo on pbase that looked pretty interesting, taken with the Sigma 8mm on a Fuji 1.5x crop camera, so it looks like it does fit on the smaller sensors horizontally. I guess the Sigma and Peleng 8mm are the only lenses for now that will produce 180 degrees on a 1.6x camera.

http://mk29.image.pbase.com/u16/uli1/medium/13993798.UliStich6550.jpg

[FattMarrell]

yeah that fisheye did turn out much better than mine.. Is there a similar lens that would adapt to the canon? I'm thinking about just going with the 10-22 wide angle, this will also let me take some neats other than just virtual tours.