help with settings for bounced flash

[Sibil]

I will be trying my brand new 580EX II at a basketball game tomorrow. I want to try the bounced flash technique. I think I have a handle on the camera settings, and how to setup for 2-3 stops under ambient, but I can’t find a consistent recommendation on the flash settings from all the threads I have read on the subject.

I’d appreciate help with the following:

Bounced flash off the ceiling:
Manual or ETTL mode?
*If manual, what power setting? Anything else?
*If ETTL, what flash setting? There are many custom function settings. Should I leave everything in the setting that came from the factory? How about flash metering, FEC, FEL, and those things? What do I do there?

Bounced flash off the walls:
Same questions as above

Also, I have read that 580EX II has an auto mode. Is that the same as the ETTL mode? There is no mention of it in the manual that I can find.

Huge thanks for any help

[Big K]

I would suggest using manual mode and zoom to maximum setting (100mm+ I think) at full power to start. If this is giving you too much light, which is doubtful, you can reduce the power but have personally never been able to get enough light from one bounced speedlight in a gym to consider this an option.

3 stops under ambient is really the minimum and you are much better off if you can get to 4 or 5 stops.

If bouncing off a back wall is an option, this would be my first choice. The less distance the light has to travel in total the better.

I would also not worry about any of the custom settings the first time out. Some may be helpful but more than likely your biggest problem will be not enough total power and not something that a fine tuning function will address.

[Howard Ting]

ETTL
+2/3, +1 depend on your gym lighting. i used a sto-fen at 45 Degress(regardless of how high the ceiling is), idk anyone out there who does it but it yeilds the results of type of pix i am looking for w/o Alienbees.

this is a well lite Gym. High school I graduated from 1 year ago.
http://photobyhowardting.com/action/images/IMG_3.jpg

This gym is a CAVE. this HS shares a Gym with their Middle school, goes to show they don't have a lot of $$$ for lights
http://photobyhowardting.com/action/images/IMG_4.jpg

[Howard Ting]

Depending on who you are shooting for... you might wanna invest in Alienbees (my local newspaper requires them). again shoemount 580 is fine for the work I do, but it makes an ugly WB between the player, and the everything else. it gets really apparent as the gyms get darker.

also note that this method works best when the player is from the three point line in, meaning that you might have lesser time to grap the pictures that you need

[Howard Ting]

I
I would also not worry about any of the custom settings the first time out. Some may be helpful but more than likely your biggest problem will be not enough total power and not something that a fine tuning function will address.

Hey Big K,

could continual high speed sync fires burnout your flash? I had my camera at 1/1000 and i fired my flash. it got REALLY hot.

[Sibil]

Thanks for the recommendations. I shoot for myself (family albums), so I don't want to invest too many more dollars. I just want to get better shots than an average parent using a P&S camera.

Sounds like I will have to try both manual and ETTL settings.

Cheers

[slyone]

Hey Sibil...if it becomes too burdensome or overwhelming...take a break and shoot manual mode,bump your ISO to 1600, shutter to 1/400 (give or take) and open up your aperature....:D

[kelbel3]

I always thought it wasn't a good idea to use flash in the athlete's face?
Also, aren't gymnasium ceilings much too high to bounce?

You should get an omnibounce or a diffuser instead of counting on bouncing off ceilings in a gym.
I've read that your 85mm 1.8 is one of the best lenses for use at indoor sporting events.

[Howard Ting]

I always thought it wasn't a good idea to use flash in the athlete's face?



As an athlete I was taught that it was part of the environmental challenges that comes with being a professional; in this case an athlete.
I was told to consistantly perform no matter what the conditions snow/sun/or wind.
You go to a game/meet not to be distracted by flashes of the media/photographers/videographers, but to Win.

"So just get over it." ...lol


but photography ethics tell us that its not nice to do it. so i'd avoid it when possible

[Sibil]

I've read that your 85mm 1.8 is one of the best lenses for use at indoor sporting events.

I read that also, and that's why I bought one and wasn't too happy with the results for the following.

1. In my experience, 85 mm is too long on 1.6 crop body (my 40D), when I am standing at the corner of the baseline and sideline, or off to the side of the basket. It probably works great on a full frame bodies. I would great if I was sitting in the bleechers.

2. The colors where drab using ambient light and 85/1.8. I tried AWB, CWB on tungston, and CWB using a white paper. The results were similar and the pictures were rather life-less. Post processing helped some.

3. The cycling of gyms' lights were so drastic that my shutter speed was varying between 125 and 640, at about ISO 1000 and about f2.0-2.5 (lots of blurry shots). I know I can boost the ISO for higher shutter speeds, but I don't like the noise even with noise reduction software.

So, I turned my attention to using some flash combinations as I like the results people were getting using various flash techniques. I have a long way to go, but learning is part of the fun process for me.

My last weekend's effort was a failure since the LCD display on the 580EX started blinking which send me into a frantic on the spot troubleshooting and I didn't get many shots. I then found out that the bouce card was not pushed all the way in.:(

Cheers

[Sibil]

ETTL
+2/3, +1 depend on your gym lighting. i used a sto-fen at 45 Degress(regardless of how high the ceiling is), idk anyone out there who does it but it yeilds the results of type of pix i am looking for w/o Alienbees.

I would be so happy with those pictures. That's what I am looking for. What lens did you use and what were the settings on the camera?

[slyone]

I read that also, and that's why I bought one and wasn't too happy with the results for the following.

1. In my experience, 85 mm is too long on 1.6 crop body (my 40D), when I am standing at the corner of the baseline and sideline, or off to the side of the basket. It probably works great on a full frame bodies. I would great if I was sitting in the bleechers.

I too find this EXACT condition as well at 70mm. The sweet spot at those locations must be around 55-65mm? I had a 5D 2 seasons ago which was perfect for the close-ups, wish I never parted with that one! At the time it was more of a financial decision than anything else......Oh well, next time. To me..flash really needs the complete setup to look right...meaning other strobes, pocket wizards, clamps,stands, case, time to setup and everything else...for a few HS basketball games...not me.


3. The cycling of gyms' lights were so drastic that my shutter speed was varying between 125 and 640, at about ISO 1000 and about f2.0-2.5 (lots of out of focus shots). I know I can boost the ISO for higher shutter speeds, but I don't like the noise even with noise reduction software.
I just try to shoot around 1/400, ISO 1250-1600, f/2.8-3.2. using Manual or TV (with auto-shift turned off).