Red oversaturation on 20d

[dougsturgess]

I took these photos this afternoon under cloudy conditions on RAW (no post-processing)and the red in the azalea is way oversaturated. Even in the photo of mostly trees in the backyard, a small part of the azalea is on the right and it's way oversaturated while the rest of the photo looks fine. I have it set on Parameter 2 (neutral settings) and no flash was used. On one photo (so named) I reduced red saturation to -30 but it doesn't look right). http://www.pbase.com/dougsturgess/test_images

Does the 20d have a problem with red oversaturation or am I doing something wrong (I know it's the second option).

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[glangston]

No photos.

White balance is auto?

[dougsturgess]

I tried to upload the photos but I don't see them. I thought I could do something that simple. What's up?

[dougsturgess]

How can I delete this and start over?

[Grimnar]

Edit your first post, and add pictures. size limited is 100kb as far as I know. Or upload them to a remote site and link them using the BB code. Keep in mind the filesizes when linking as well. No use for a 6xxx*3xxx pic. 800x600 is plenty.

[Toogy]

I don't notice anything being oversatured???

PS, the pic with the dog is fantastic!! :)

[glangston]

I like the dog pic also.

I would try setting the camera to "custom white balance" with a card and then shoot again and see what you think. I found it made a lot of difference. p.51 in manual.

[dougsturgess]

You know what? I looked again with my own eyes at the azalea bush and it IS highly oversaturated. The bush is so bright red it's unbelievable. Could it be I'm not yet used to the increased resolution of the 20d after using the G2 for several years?

[Bodog]

Someone step in and correct me if need be, but my understanding is that oversaturated reds are common to digital cameras in general. At least that's the response that I got when I posted a similar thread for my Drebel last year. Pretty easy to correct in the RAW conversion, or Photoshop. Since then, I've noticed the same phenomenom with TV broadcasts, so seems to me to be widespread.

[drisley]

Bodog, I've heard that too.
Oversaturated reds are especially a trait of Canon digital cameras too.

[dougsturgess]

So, how do you correct it with RAW conversion? I converted the RAW file as taken, then corrected for the black & white points in CS (which really did nothing too noticeable).

[Moments]

I had a loaner 1D Mark II from Canon Professional Services on a wedding this past fall. My bride had red roses and they were very oversaturated. I emailed samples to CPS and they have never responded to me. I was using the camera in large JPG and I did a custom white balance with a 550ex for fill flash.
Have others had this same problem before?

Pete
www.memorablemoments.net

[drisley]

You can correct in Raw by reducing the red channel saturation. Each software will work differently.
Plus, you can use many methods in Photoshop too.

[Moments]

If you only have to correct a few images,Ok. I already do a lot of otherdigital work with my images, and I'm not looking for more things to correct. I guess the problem is if this is really a trait of the Canon 1D/s MII series digital cameras. I have only been using the 10 and 20D for candids and other event work to date. I have not noticed the red problem with my cameras as of yet. My biggest concern in switching my formals from being shot on my Hasselblad to the 1D MII or the 1Ds MII is if I will have to worry about problems like this and exposure problems.

Pete
www.memorablemoments.net (http://www.memorablemoments.net/)

[Bodog]

Like drisley sez there are numeous ways to reach the same end. I use Capture One to convert. Anytime I have blown highlights in any channel I change the "film" profile from "film standard" to "linear response" and bring the EC slider back down until all channels are within bounds. That makes a pretty dull image, so I use a custom curve to bring the contrast back up, being careful keep all the channels within the histogram. Depending on the image, furher work may be necessary in Photoshop, but that is rare.

[drisley]

Also, if you are using C1 Pro, there are some other profiles for the 1 series cameras that are supposed to help with the reds.
If you are using Photoshop CS Camera Raw, you can actually "create" your own profile with a lower red saturation. :)

[ScottE]

I've notice that my 20D also give oversaturated reds. This is especially noticeable in winter scenes where the red is set against white snow. See how the red ski suit is almost flourescent in the attached photo. This was converter from RAW using RawShooter Esentials and resized in Photoshop. Rawshooter does some colour balancing and sharpening. No other adjustments were made.

Scott

[scottbergerphoto]

This was and still is an isssue with the 1DMII. See this:
http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56304&highlight=reds
Regards,
Scott

[drisley]

ScottE, I've never seen anything that extreme with my 20D before. Wow.
As I mentioned above, one of the many nice things about Photoshop CS Camera Raw is that you can calibrate your own profile with the Camera Raw's "Calibrate" tab. You can turn down red saturation to your liking, and then save that as the default conversion profile.

[KennyG]

This was and still is an isssue with the 1DMII. See this:
http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56304&highlight=reds
Regards,
Scott

Scott, there has not really been an issue with the MK-II reds since the first flush of complaints on DPR and the odd one on RG, which always happens every time a new model is released. For me colour accuracy is of prime importance and blown/bleeding/incorrect colour highlights would simply bring my job to a halt. I can assure you that I have never had this problem and the other MK-II users I work alongside have not have it either.

In extreme circumstances, such as very bright colours against snow, any camera will struggle to get the levels/colours right, uncluding film. Digital will clip or over-blow channels depending on metering etc. irrespective of model or make. RAW does give better post-process control, but it isn't a magic bullet.

RSE has some strange problems with colour handling and detail extraction. Just look at the noise in OOF areas between C1 and RSE and it looks like RSE is either running some form of noise reduction or is simply not extracting all the detail. I have run extensive trials with RSE and have judged that C1 is still the leader of the pack.

[scottbergerphoto]

Scott, there has not really been an issue with the MK-II reds since the first flush of complaints on DPR and the odd one on RG, which always happens every time a new model is released. For me colour accuracy is of prime importance and blown/bleeding/incorrect colour highlights would simply bring my job to a halt. I can assure you that I have never had this problem and the other MK-II users I work alongside have not have it either.

In extreme circumstances, such as very bright colours against snow, any camera will struggle to get the levels/colours right, uncluding film. Digital will clip or over-blow channels depending on metering etc. irrespective of model or make. RAW does give better post-process control, but it isn't a magic bullet.

RSE has some strange problems with colour handling and detail extraction. Just look at the noise in OOF areas between C1 and RSE and it looks like RSE is either running some form of noise reduction or is simply not extracting all the detail. I have run extensive trials with RSE and have judged that C1 is still the leader of the pack.
Kenny,
I offer you this in depth test of the 1DMII that explores and documents the red issue particularly when shooting in sRGB and jpeg. Most 1DM2 users are probably using Adobe RGB as I do and don't see it.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E1D2/E1D2A8.HTM
Regards,
Scott

[slin100]

This is not a 1DMKII issue. All of Canon's DSLR have the same "issue". It's an indictment of the sRGB color space, which is smaller than what the 1DMKII, and all other Canon DSLRs for that matter, can capture. The examples shown just illustrate that there are colors present in nature that sRGB may not be capable of faithfully reproducing.

Shooting in RAW allows the decision of the color space to be postponed to the post-processing stage. One recommendation is to use the ProPhoto RGB color space to process the RAW image. Process to 16-bits and convert to the desired target color space by experimenting with the various rendering intents (Perceptual, Absolute Colormetric, Relative Colormetric). This will maximize the control over the color of the image, and maximize the chances of mapping out-of-gamut colors back to perceptually equivalent in-gamut colors.

[Quinn Porter]

I loaded image 4454 into photoshop and checked the histogram. Looks like the red channel is really blown (histograms below).

Perhaps when faced with a scene containing vibrant reds, one could use the White Balance Correction feature to reduce exposure in the red channel. I've never tried this, but according to page 53 of the 20D mannual, this feature works like a color compensating filter.

I'd like to know if anyone is using this feature and what their experience has been. Could this be used to avoid clipping the red channel, while getting a proper overall exposure?

http://qp.smugmug.com/photos/18759878-L.jpg