I think I have my head and pod picked out, please evaluate

[ClarkinBabler]

I shoot mainly birds and wildlife, or nature scenes. I am shooting with a 100 canon macro, or a 100-400mm canon, and will eventually get up to the 500 f4 lens. I stand about 6'4" and will be carrying this into the brush and over trails

My legs I am thinking the Gitzo 3541ls. This is 3 inches shorter than the 5541ls but also 3 lbs lighter.

For head I was considering the Full blown Wimberly head, but that makes the entire pod be for large lenses. So instead I am thinking I go with the Kirk BH-1 Ball head with a Wimberly Sidekick. The cost would come out about the same.


What else am I missing, or are their lower cost alternatives without giving up too much in quality or ease of use

Thanks!

[tvphotog]

Wow. That's a lot of weight to put on your shoulder,... tripod, head, body and lens if you want to move from place to place. About 10lbs. I guess if you break it down and put it in a pack it's more manageable, but still makes for a heavy kit.

I guess that 6'4" comes with a lot of muscle. I'm a thin guy and can just make it with my 1541T. But it sounds like you put a lot of time into the decision.

[MDJAK]

Condyk, a very unpopular ;) member of this forum has an active thread about a gimbal head, a full wimberely imposter, that is much cheaper and which works perfectly for him. If you look on the forum you'll find the thread. Or PM him for details.

I have the sidekick and prefer it over the full wimberely for my 200-400 f4, which is probably the size and weight of the 500 f4. I like having a ballhead to use with other lenses when popping off the sidekick.

That said, the full gimbal is awesome too.

me

[ClarkinBabler]

MDJAK, that was my entire reason for the sidekick and ball head, I do not want to be pigeon holed into just a large lens pod, more of a pod that can be used for multiple lenses, but still makes the birding the priority

tvphotog, where do you think I can cut down weight? I am open to suggestions and will change anything for 1. weight consideration 2. better or equal performance for less money

Thanks again

Clark

[tvphotog]

MDJAK, that was my entire reason for the sidekick and ball head, I do not want to be pigeon holed into just a large lens pod, more of a pod that can be used for multiple lenses, but still makes the birding the priority

tvphotog, where do you think I can cut down weight? I am open to suggestions and will change anything for 1. weight consideration 2. better or equal performance for less money

Thanks again

Clark

I have a 1541t which is perfect for my needs of light weight and collapsing to a short(16") length. I never use a lens bigger than a 100-400L with a 5D2. That may not be good on a really windy day, but most of the time this setup has worked for me.

With the weight of your equipment, it certainly wouldn't work on the 1 series, but what about the 2 series? I'll let the more experienced wildlife people speak up here.

[ClarkinBabler]

I have a 1541t which is perfect for my needs of light weight and collapsing to a short(16") length. I never use a lens bigger than a 100-400L with a 5D2. That may not be good on a really windy day, but most of the time this setup has worked for me.

With the weight of your equipment, it certainly wouldn't work on the 1 series, but what about the 2 series? I'll let the more experienced wildlife people speak up here.

I looked at the 2 series, but I am trying to get as much height as I can, and I will take the additional 1 1/2 lb for the 4-5 inches in height if I have my figures right

[argyle]

With a 500mm lens, you will definitely need a 3-series if you plan on getting a Gitzo...the 2-series is not rated for that long of a focal length (and definitely forget about a 1-series ;) ). Shooting a 100-400L, you'd be able to get by with a 2-series, but tossing a 500 into the mix changes the equation. You're probably looking at either the 3541LS or the 3541XLS (Gitzo Systematic line). The big difference between the two is the full open height...the LS is about 58 inches tall and the XLS is just over 75 inches tall (not counting the ballhead and whatever else you place on top). Both are rated for 500mm lenses...

[ClarkinBabler]

With a 500mm lens, you will definitely need a 3-series if you plan on getting a Gitzo...the 2-series is not rated for that long of a focal length (and definitely forget about a 1-series ;) ). Shooting a 100-400L, you'd be able to get by with a 2-series, but tossing a 500 into the mix changes the equation. You're probably looking at either the 3541LS or the 3541XLS (Gitzo Systematic line). The big difference between the two is the full open height...the LS is about 58 inches tall and the XLS is just over 75 inches tall (not counting the ballhead and whatever else you place on top). Both are rated for 500mm lenses...

Thanks Argyle! I will look at the XLS, I hadnt thought of that one yet. State compared are

3541LS
closed length: 21.65 in.; leg angles: 24°. 55°; 4 leg sections; load capacity: 39.68 lbs.; material: carbon fiber 6X; maximum height: 57.48 in.; minimum height: 3.94 in.; series: 3; weight: 3.79 lbs

cost:$637 (amazon)

3541XLS
closed length: 27.56 in.; leg angles: 24°. 55°; 4 leg sections; load capacity: 39.68 lbs.; material: carbon fiber 6X; maximum height: 77.95 in.; minimum height: 3.94 in.; series: 3; weight: 4.34 lbs

cost: $800 (amazon)

so for $163 I gain 20" in height, add 1/2 a lb, with all other stats the same. Seems like the legs I am looking for.

Opinions? also on the sidekick/ballhead combo please

Thanks!

Clark

[Stuart Leslie]

Went through the tripod dilema a month ago. Ended up with 3541LS and the Markins Ballhead. Figured with the height of the head this would be ideal height for my 6'1" body. My largest lens is 300mm f/2.8. The height is perfect for me so I am very happy. You can't appreciate how rock solid this tripod is until you are out shooting in the wind with it and a big lens. With that said, I think you may want something a little taller unless you don't mind stooping sometimes to see through the viewfinder. Also I noticed that when shooting in Portrait orientation the viewfinder is not "as high" and I stoop a bit with my setup.

[LostShootingStar]

Opinions? also on the sidekick/ballhead combo please

Thanks!

Clark

I think the XLS is the way to go personally http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/2465/o09a0208gstn/POTNsmile.gif

[MDJAK]

With a 500mm lens, you will definitely need a 3-series if you plan on getting a Gitzo...the 2-series is not rated for that long of a focal length (and definitely forget about a 1-series ;) ). Shooting a 100-400L, you'd be able to get by with a 2-series, but tossing a 500 into the mix changes the equation. You're probably looking at either the 3541LS or the 3541XLS (Gitzo Systematic line). The big difference between the two is the full open height...the LS is about 58 inches tall and the XLS is just over 75 inches tall (not counting the ballhead and whatever else you place on top). Both are rated for 500mm lenses...


I'm sorry, but I most respectfully disagree strongly. While technically Gitzo's literature states that clearly, the proof is more in the user.

I've owned two 1 series models and have used large lenses on it with my sidekick over and over again. It supports them with no problem.

Now, I'm not saying if you've got the money and desire to get a 3 series that you shouldn't. It will definitely be more rock solid than a smaller, lighter series.

If you shoot in windy conditions, if you shoot static landscapes in dim light with long shutter speeds, then the larger tripod will give better results.

I could sit on my 1 series and it will hold me. Tripods are rated by the manufacturer shooting a laser beam across the legs at its rated capacity and the amount of flexion and "shake" is measured.

But if you're using the tripod for birding, using a gimbal mount or the sidekick, and moving your camera, the 1 series works fine. So, if you're looking to save weight and money and have compactness, the 1 series will hold a large lens just fine. And I'm speaking from experience as I'm now using mine for my Nikon 200-400 f4, which is every bit as heavy and long as 500mm.

As to a post above about the folding traveler, it does fold down very small, but I was not speaking of that particular 1 series. I have one of the mountaineer models.

mark

[tvphotog]

I'm sorry, but I most respectfully disagree strongly. While technically Gitzo's literature states that clearly, the proof is more in the user.

I've owned two 1 series models and have used large lenses on it with my sidekick over and over again. It supports them with no problem.
If you shoot in windy conditions, if you shoot static landscapes in dim light with long shutter speeds, then the larger tripod will give better results.

I could sit on my 1 series and it will hold me.

A bungee on the center column hook attached to my camera backpack below has given my 1541t a lot more stability on windy days. The weight saving and compact size of this series 1 are real issues for me.

You can rationalize and say "Oh, this series 2 (or 3) is only a pound or two heavier than the 1 series." But then you find that you just have to carry another lens, or you want to throw in a Speedlite, and you must have a water bottle snapped to the side of your pack. All of a sudden, the pack is now five pounds heavier than before. I say, save every ounce where you can if you want to be comfortable carrying stuff in the field.

I'm 6' tall, and yes, I have to stoop a bit to see through the viewfinder. But I spend more time carrying the pack than I do stooping, and that's twenty pounds of kit to carry all day. You have to make the tradeoffs that work for you.

[ClarkinBabler]

I'm sorry, but I most respectfully disagree strongly. While technically Gitzo's literature states that clearly, the proof is more in the user.

I've owned two 1 series models and have used large lenses on it with my sidekick over and over again. It supports them with no problem.

Now, I'm not saying if you've got the money and desire to get a 3 series that you shouldn't. It will definitely be more rock solid than a smaller, lighter series.

If you shoot in windy conditions, if you shoot static landscapes in dim light with long shutter speeds, then the larger tripod will give better results.

I could sit on my 1 series and it will hold me. Tripods are rated by the manufacturer shooting a laser beam across the legs at its rated capacity and the amount of flexion and "shake" is measured.

But if you're using the tripod for birding, using a gimbal mount or the sidekick, and moving your camera, the 1 series works fine. So, if you're looking to save weight and money and have compactness, the 1 series will hold a large lens just fine. And I'm speaking from experience as I'm now using mine for my Nikon 200-400 f4, which is every bit as heavy and long as 500mm.

As to a post above about the folding traveler, it does fold down very small, but I was not speaking of that particular 1 series. I have one of the mountaineer models.

mark

Thanks for the input Mark! If you were to pick the best pair of legs, what would you go with?

Stooping down is an issue with me though, as I look sometimes through the viewfinder for 2-3 minutes working a bird through the brush. Having a hunched back can get old after a few of those occurances

[argyle]

I'm sorry, but I most respectfully disagree strongly. While technically Gitzo's literature states that clearly, the proof is more in the user.

I've owned two 1 series models and have used large lenses on it with my sidekick over and over again. It supports them with no problem.

...As to a post above about the folding traveler, it does fold down very small, but I was not speaking of that particular 1 series. I have one of the mountaineer models.

mark

Maybe I wasn't very clear...I was referring to the Series 1 Traveler tripod that its owner keeps bringing up in this thread. It is not recommended for anything over 200mm (with good long lens technique, maybe a little bit longer), and since the OP will be using a 500mm lens, omitting the Traveler from consideration is a no-brainer. The folks at Really Right Stuff also recommend the 3-series GT or even the 5-series GT for heavy artillery such as the 500mm lens and longer. Another option is the G1410 Systematic, which is a Series 4 Gitzo. Most likely, the OP would have to consider multiple tripods...one for short and medium telephoto lenses, and the other for the big guns.

As far as load capacity and focal length goes, I'd still base any decision on Gitzo's recommendations. A tripod needs to do more than just support weight...it also needs to resist the rotational forces that are imposed upon it when using long lenses.

[tvphotog]

Thanks for the input Mark! If you were to pick the best pair of legs, what would you go with?

Stooping down is an issue with me though, as I look sometimes through the viewfinder for 2-3 minutes working a bird through the brush. Having a hunched back can get old after a few of those occurances

I can understand completely. I don't shoot many birds.



As far as load capacity and focal length goes, I'd still base any decision on Gitzo's recommendations. A tripod needs to do more than just support weight...it also needs to resist the rotational forces that are imposed upon it when using long lenses.

I was told by the Bogen rep when I bought the 1541t that one of its strength and of all Gitzo's is the ability to resist torque forces. The joints with the upper plate are specially constructed to do this better than other tripods. He set up several of the tripods at B&H of similar weight to the 1541, and it was more difficult to twist the Gitzo than the others. I'm not necessarily recommending the 1541 in this case, but speaking of lightweight tripods,...that's the skinny on torque, as per the company.

[scot079]

Buy a nice tripod/head the first time so when you get your 500 there won't be any problems.

Gitzo 3-series + ballhead + Sidekick

[argyle]

He set up several of the tripods at B&H of similar weight to the 1541, and it was more difficult to twist the Gitzo than the others. I'm not necessarily recommending the 1541 in this case, but speaking of lightweight tripods,...that's the skinny on torque, as per the company.

I'm well aware of torque and how its calculated. Basically, longer lens = more surface area = potential for greater torque. The point is, this thread is not related to lightweight travel tripods. I can understand your exuberance about the 1541T, but it just doesn't apply.

[jhom]

I'm not sure why there is any doubt which Gitzo series is needed by the OP. Simply, he needs a 3 or 5 series. Just because a 1 series or 2 series can support a 500mm lens, does not mean it is the right legs for the lens. Gitzo uses both weight and focal length in their recommendation formula. Putting a 500 on a 1 or 2 series is like putting a howitzer on a Hummer. The Hummer most likely can support it, but once you start using it you will immediately realize the limitations and compromises needed. My suggestion is to spend some time on the nature forums and see what they are using. I doubt you will find any serious birder using a 1 series with a 500 as a regular setup. The T series is wonderful, but it is a specialized legset. Users of the series usually understand the compromises you make when you use it.