Renting a studio and building. Pre-buy jitters.

[Karl Johnston]

From up to this point my studio has been conducting it's shoots mostly on an on-location basis. I hire two other photographers on a contract/casual basis to do shoots based on an hourly rate, with percentages of that work taken to fund the business and the materials cost.

Recently I've had too good an offer to pass up; I want to move into having a location downtown. A moderately hotspot with good accessibility, too. Since it's warming up and spring is coming most of our shooting is done on-location, still, but outside. We prefer it this way because natural light and the surrounding area is so much easier and nicer to work in.

However, in the winter when its a frigid -40 or equally bad weather that will make things very difficult. So I'm wondering if investing in a studio space right now would be a good idea (it's march, just letting y'all know). It's about 800 sq feet, all utilities included, pretty downtown location.

I have another friend who is interested in piggybacking off of me and we would split down the rental costs. He does mostly the same thing I do, but he has his own management, organization and shoots that he's more comfortable/experienced doing than I am. The thing is he wouldn't be consistent, and it would depend on his cash flow he tells me, and isn't really interested in signing anything binding.

I was looking to network and learn from other people who have had a similar case as this, who were just setting up a studio business (i put it that way because the majority of photographers I've met don't have a building) and what their experiences were. Going from on-location to having a set location.

[griptape]

We don't run your business, or know your cost vs. income. You should probably be talking to your accountant.

[Karl Johnston]

..Right well thanks for that highly rude reply..

I removed the info about financial info...but the question and discussion still stands.

[griptape]

..Right well thanks for that highly rude reply..

I removed the info about financial info...but the question and discussion still stands.
I'm sorry if you found that rude, but since we have no idea what your financial situation/obligation is, who are we to say that you can or can't afford it (as that seems to be your main concern, based on "The thing is he wouldn't be consistent, and it would depend on his cash flow he tells me, and isn't really interested in signing anything binding.") If you can afford it, yes, it's probably a better situation, but if you can't, it probably isn't. So... Can you afford it?

Are you looking for someone to tell you "yes, it's worth the risk, you'll make it"?

If you can afford to lose the money on the investment if it fails, then yeah, go ahead and take the risk. If you can't afford it, then you're asking us what number you should gamble on at the craps table.

[Karl Johnston]

No. I'm not looking for "Yes it's worth it" responses, you completely missed the boat.

But i'm not looking for discussion about whether or not I can afford it, that's not the point of this post.

I'm looking for experiences of on-location photographers who moved into a studio photographing environment and what they found the transition to be like, did their style improve or their management improve ?

Example; Did they find it was a worthwhile investment, moving into a building and conducting their shoots from there or what other alternatives did they find to increase their business (rather than moving into a building) as an on-location/hunt me down and schedule me photographer. What changed for them, what didn't, did they find they had more business with a walk-in studio or was it a burden ?

Money is always a factor, always, even if I were extremely wealthy I'd be wondering if it was worth it.

[griptape]

Again, I'm sorry if I offend, because I don't mean it that way. But yes, if you can afford to break even or better, then the experience of working with someone more talented than you with something to share is always worth it. It's the reason people go to college.

But real world is often times better, assuming you have a good knowledge of business. Walk ins aren't a big part of a professional studio, but it certainly helps to advertise that you can go on location OR they can come to your studio. Your goal should be that you're too busy to accept walk ins. I think a good analogy is car repair. Do you trust the guy who says "yeah, I can do it this afternoon", or the guy that says "well I've got about 15 cars ahead of you, but I'll be happy to fix you up and put you in line"?

As a business decision, if you can afford to not count on a profit for a bit, it's a great long term business decision.

[Karl Johnston]

I see your points, thank you for sharing.

[scorpio_e]

It's a valid question that can be discussed. There may be opinions and thoughts express that the OP did not consider. I am sure he is not looking for the forum to make a decision for him.
That being said.. If you can not afford the studio on your own, do not do it. If you need a partner then get someone who would commit to signing a lease.
If you are in a large metro area, you may be able to rent the space to other photographers who do not have a studio. Again it is all based on your income and what you can afford. I would not sign a lease on someones maybe or best intentions:)

Good luck

[sspellman]

Kajuah-

The prime reason any business would make a big change is to increase revenue or improve capeabilities. Finances are a key ingredient to make this decision. I did increase my capeabilities of my part time photography business by becoming a partner in a local studio with month to month rent. For a while, I was able to increase my revenue in excess of my studio expenses for about 2 years. Recently the economy is down and my location business better, so I have focused on building resources to make my large loft a better location for studio pictures and meetings. As a result, I have been able to leave my studio and operate out of my home, but I can still rent my studio for special jobs.

Your more experienced potential partner does not want to sign a lease. There is probably a good reason.

-Scott

[Karl Johnston]

Kajuah-

The prime reason any business would make a big change is to increase revenue or improve capeabilities. Finances are a key ingredient to make this decision. I did increase my capeabilities of my part time photography business by becoming a partner in a local studio with month to month rent. For a while, I was able to increase my revenue in excess of my studio expenses for about 2 years. Recently the economy is down and my location business better, so I have focused on building resources to make my large loft a better location for studio pictures and meetings. As a result, I have been able to leave my studio and operate out of my home, but I can still rent my studio for special jobs.

Your more experienced potential partner does not want to sign a lease. There is probably a good reason.

-Scott
All good points there, scott, thanks for the feedback. I often like to see what other people have done, before me, to see if a move I make is going to be a good one or not.

It's a valid question that can be discussed. There may be opinions and thoughts express that the OP did not consider. I am sure he is not looking for the forum to make a decision for him.

Wooo, thank you!!

[slimninj4]

Just bought a lease for a studio with three other people. We negotiated with the owner to get some good concessions. We also have it planned out so if 1 or 2 people have issues and fall behind we can actually still cover costs. We moved from a 900 sq ft too about 2500 sq ft.

[slimninj4]

Example; Did they find it was a worthwhile investment, moving into a building and conducting their shoots from there or what other alternatives did they find to increase their business (rather than moving into a building) as an on-location/hunt me down and schedule me photographer. What changed for them, what didn't, did they find they had more business with a walk-in studio or was it a burden ?
.


For us we moved from a one room studio to a 3 room studio with office, changing rooms, and makeup room plus a small room for storage of things.
Plus this allows us to book (hopefully) more photograhers to rent out.

[Karl Johnston]

Hmm now there's something... I could rent it out to photographers by day rate or weekly rate. That would fit just right and nice if there's nothing going on.

This location is 800 sq feet, 3 rooms, store room and changing room with a entryway and then the main area. Lights are already in place and we're going ahead with things. Was a bit worried at first, but I'm always worried at first when making a trip to the bank. I was shaking when I bought the first couple 50Ds and now we just got a couple more 5D mark IIs :lol: The money keeps on going in...and out...in and out. I guess it's something I'll have to get used to.

[Aaagogo]

the danger is the friend piggybacking... since he's made it clear that he's not willing to sign anything or has anything firm,

do your math based without him, just in case he backs out when the money is tight.

[Karl Johnston]

Good point AAagogo, already took that into account, calculated that out. Worst case scenario; I only get 3 appointments a month, but even working for 3 days I could cover the costs :D Woopee. Looks like it's a full go.

[LBaldwin]

Please consider getting a good comp insurance policy with a low deductible to cover water and electrical damages as well as clients onsite. My friend just upgraded to a 3k studio and signed the lease and the insurance the same day. A sprinkler head burst and flooded his space and destroyed two strobes and a LF printer. Of course the landlord was quick to point out that any damages INSIDE the studio are the responsibility of the tennent.... He was fully covered. First claim? 24k...

As far as renting it out, make sure that your rentors have coverage that pays you should they fry an electrical box.

I also want a creative space, I think it will help you in impressing new and exisiting clients regardless of where you actually shoot. Having a "real" spot to show off can help you raise rates without explaining why. Then it becomes a studio and a gallery of your work. Good luck with it!!

[Karl Johnston]

Well that was a short business ..a very short-lived operation

...I woke up to an old student loans debt that I thought was forgiven and written off but apparently there was a paper lost somewhere that I didn't sign years ago ...and now there's 5 000$ to be owed back to the bank :( ...no studio and I'm selling all my gear ... :( I think I'll go join the recession guys on the carousel of broke-dom. It'll be a while before I restart that idea of having my own outlet.

feeling pretty sick lately, oh well..least I still have all my shots and my harddrive.

I'm selling my 70-200 2.8L and eos 50D ...any takers? :lol: Canadian residents only. :lol:.....:( it wasn't a good day for me....I'm cutting some extra slack. I use a 5D mark II, anyway, I've been using the 50D less and less.

[LBaldwin]

I am not sure about Canada but in the US you can always renegotiate and loan to more favorable terms. So don't sell your gear just yet. Talk to a knowledgable 3rd party to see if you are still REQUIRED to pay the bill and then present your payment terms in writing to the loan company. I speak from first hand experience I have sold gear to pay bills and really lived to regret it. You cannot be a photographer without a camera. Set back? sure but not the end of the road.

[Karl Johnston]

True, les, you`re right. Just gotta keep on keeping on. I`m glad that happened, actually, because if I had gone forward with signing for the outlet, then I`d be slammed with that debt and be screwed with an extra thousand to pay on top of that.

Eventually the opportunity will re-present itself, or it won`t, but by that time Ill probably have something else going for me anyway.