1D Mk111 REPLACEMENT ?

[gage]

When is the mk111 due for replacement ????? (I want a reduced priced mk111 for my 300 2.8 ,so I can leave my 5D to mind my other lenses. ) Any one hazard a quess ????

[MinhThien]

Yeah I heard the 1d4 will be out in Fall of 2009!

[gage]

I don't want to call the little icon faces annoying ,so how do you make them not happen ???? previewing for me doesn't work !!!

[basroil]

I don't want to call the little icon faces annoying ,so how do you make them not happen ???? previewing for me doesn't work !!!

make sure you are in advanced post (when you make a thread, you automatically are, pressing quote or reply to also bring you there)

then below submit, in additional options, miscellaneous options, disable smilies in text

[JeffreyG]

The Mark II versions of the 1D came out 3 years after the first set, and the Mark III came again three years after the Mark II. Foloowing this pattern exactly would have the Mark IV announced in February 2010 and available around April / May 2010.

It could be earlier, like fall 2009. Nobody outside of Canon knows of course.

[tommykjensen]

I don't want to call the little icon faces annoying ,so how do you make them not happen ???? previewing for me doesn't work !!!

The simple solution would be not to use excessive amounts of "?" or "!" as it does not add any value to your post.

[peterbj7]

Now the 5DmkII is out with 21mp I would expect the 1DsMkIV sooner rather than later.

[Mark]

The Mark II versions of the 1D came out 3 years after the first set, and the Mark III came again three years after the Mark II. Foloowing this pattern exactly would have the Mark IV announced in February 2010 and available around April / May 2010.

It could be earlier, like fall 2009. Nobody outside of Canon knows of course.

Yep!
Exactly true, I don't really care TBH, (hopefully) the focus on my MK III will be perfect after the fix, then it will be epic!
(whenever the shots are PERFECT focus on the mk III the sheer quality always amazes me, they are rarely in PERFECT focus, generally just in the DoF if you know what I mean...)

[gromeo]

I heard 2010 to coincide with the Olympics

[nphsbuckeye]

What happened with the other 107 Marks?

[MDteX]

According to CR the 1D successor won't be out until Q3 or so of 2010. Canon is blaming it on the economy. Guess I will pick up a 1DIII now.

[Misiek]

The 2010 Olympics may be a good occasion to release a new 1d4...

[peterbj7]

2010 Olympics? I thought they were in 2012. Or are you thinking of the winter Olympics? - I don't know when they are, but I believe they're 2 years apart from summer Olympics.

[FlyingPhotog]

2010 Olympics? I thought they were in 2012. Or are you thinking of the winter Olympics? - I don't know when they are, but I believe they're 2 years apart from summer Olympics.

Next Winter O is 2010 in Vancouver...

[Misiek]

And many people have problems with the new 5d2 in cold so a 1d4 would be a great solution :). And a great news for all that would like to buy a used 1d3 :D

[KAS]

If it were to be ready for the 2010 winter olypics, it should be out by now. It always always takes a couple months after announcement for them to actually be available. And then another couple months for the pros to get used to them. Keep in mind, the shooters that go to the olympics like to be in the city well in advance of the events. If Canon intend to have the 1d4 ready for the winter olypics, they're cutting it very close!

[gage]

the 2010 olympics is eleven and a half months from now -middle of Feb 2010. I am thinking of putting a used mk111 on my 300 f2.8 and using my other lenses on my 5D. Although I might cheapout with a 50D. A mk 1V would reduce the used price ,or at least free up some mk111's

[danielyamseng]

yeah that's true. But just donno how great is the mark IV.

[bluemotion]

wouldn't mind having to wait another year or two for the mkIV to come out.. cuz by then i'll be able to afford another body... =) hopefully it comes with video that allows manual aperture settings.. =)

[cccc]

What would a mk4 have that you need, besides better focus?

Seriously.

[peterbj7]

I shall be surprised if the MkIV has less than 30mp, possibly significantly more. And hopefully Canon will have found a way to make the camera deliver the IQ that such monstrous resolution might lead on to expect. Oh, and the focussing issue, which I've read about rather than experienced.

[midget]

I shall be surprised if the MkIV has less than 30mp, possibly significantly more. And hopefully Canon will have found a way to make the camera deliver the IQ that such monstrous resolution might lead on to expect. Oh, and the focussing issue, which I've read about rather than experienced.

i doubt that the mkIV will have anywhere near 30mp. the DSmkIV on the other hand, i would totally agree with you that canon probably wont go below 30mp on the new full-frame pro body considering the pixel density of the 5dmkII and the competition (D3x).

[eror11]

1d mk 4 will have no more then 21mpx, that's fact. And yeah, the 1ds mk 4 will definitely have more then 25, probably closer to 30mpx... but don't mix the two up. As for what the 1d4 needs compared to the current model - if it only had a 920k lcd and ISO similar to the 5d2 (and focus like it should), I'd sell my car and buy it in a heartbeat. I'd be set for the following 6 years. Canon 1d's are at least 6 years in front of the rebel series in all ways, probably the xxD series too. Only 5d's catch up after a while and only in some respects

[motion_projekt]

There won't be a Mark IV.

4 is unlucky in japan. they will probably name it something else.

[gary88]

There won't be a Mark IV.

4 is unlucky in japan. they will probably name it something else.

That's what I've been thinking too. Maybe they'll just skip right to Mark V.

And I honestly doubt it will be anywhere near 21mp, unless dual Digic IVs can keep up with that filesize while shooting at least 10fps. I'm going to guess it'll have 12-15mp.

[basroil]

There won't be a Mark IV.

4 is unlucky in japan. they will probably name it something else.

That's what I've been thinking too. Maybe they'll just skip right to Mark V.

And I honestly doubt it will be anywhere near 21mp, unless dual Digic IVs can keep up with that filesize while shooting at least 10fps. I'm going to guess it'll have 12-15mp.


The above quote is contradicted by the below quote.

maaku fooa /= yon/shi

The japanese have no qualms about using roman numerals for 4 and 9 as long as they are said in english. Hence floors are bad but reference numbers are usually okay.

[AdamJL]

There won't be a Mark IV.

4 is unlucky in japan. they will probably name it something else.

The above quote is contradicted by the below quote.

maaku fooa /= yon/shi

The japanese have no qualms about using roman numerals for 4 and 9 as long as they are said in english. Hence floors are bad but reference numbers are usually okay.


ermm... Digic 4???

[basroil]

ermm... Digic 4???

You can read ;)

Yes, that was my reference. Also, we have a 40d, 400d, 450d, SD450 400mm lenses, etc. They all use the numeral 4, so if there is a mk something it'll be iv. However, if there is a camera, it'll come out in 6 months just in time for winter olympics, like the 1dmkii came out in june for 2k4 summer olympics.

[AdamJL]

The above quote is contradicted by the below quote.

maaku fooa /= yon/shi

The japanese have no qualms about using roman numerals for 4 and 9 as long as they are said in english. Hence floors are bad but reference numbers are usually okay.

As far as I'm aware.. "4" isn't a Roman Numeral!

And Digic 4 is not Digic IV. Seems to me they DO have problems using Roman Numerals for 4.
After all, the previous Digics were I, II, and III.

[muscleflex]

it's such a nice day to be reading posts.... go out and shoot! ;-)

[MDteX]

I think the new IV will be either 21 or 24mp. I guess we have more than a year to wait. Who knows, by then it may be 30mp.

I personally would rather see a super clean ISO 12800!!!

[HuskyKMA]

it's such a nice day to be reading posts.... go out and shoot! ;-)

It's snowing here. :confused:

[jcw122]

There won't be a Mark IV.

4 is unlucky in japan. they will probably name it something else.

I know the number 4 is unlucky in China too.

[Jon_Doh]

18.2 mp, 12fps, 3.2" OCD rear screen, full frame, 65 zone metering with contrast distinction, 48 focus pts (48,21,11). The mirror is being redesigned and will not move. Viewfinder larger and brighter. Wireless file transfer capability via wifi. And more.

[angela6571]

18.2 mp, 12fps, 3.2" OCD rear screen, full frame, 65 zone metering with contrast distinction, 48 focus pts (48,21,11). The mirror is being redesigned and will not move. Viewfinder larger and brighter. Wireless file transfer capability via wifi. And more.

Laughable.

[rang]

Ok here is a way out there guess...
- 36megapixel sensor
- larger than 35mm format
- able to detect an EF mount lens *with adaptor* so that the sensor turns off a certain array of the pixels to reduce vignetting. This allows you to use your existing EF mount glass.
- But allows for a new range of glass at even MORE $'s.
- fully swivelable LCD 3.5" to 4" with corresponding higher display density.
- HD video at super high frame rate used with new formatted media capable of storing more than the limitations currently found in 5dII.
- AF capable in video mode.

etc. etc.

.....just dreaming.

[dolina]

The timing makes sense that the 1D4 will be announced this September with limited availability by December.

There is a 50/50 chance of happening that any of the fast 4 super telephotos will be updated by September as well. My indicators are the (10 going 11 years) age of the lens, two (Winter Olympics and Fifa World Cup) major sporting events, Nikon's updated Supertelephotos from 2007 and Canon slowly updating the L lenses to Mark II's.

Other fast L primes that needs updates due to age and demands of future camera sensors are the 35L, 135L & 180L. Slower L primes and L zooms have a few more years to go before Canon does anything with them.

A lot of people will say all these lenses are perfect as is but these lenses were designed for film and not sensors. 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years from now you will notice how bad Mark I L's will look like on future digital bodies but remain superb on film and current digital bodies now.

[FlyingPhotog]

The timing makes sense that the 1D4 will be announced this September with limited availability by December.

There is a 50/50 chance of happening that any of the fast 4 super telephotos will be updated by September as well. My indicators are the (10 going 11 years) age of the lens, two (Winter Olympics and Fifa World Cup) major sporting events, Nikon's updated Supertelephotos from 2007 and Canon slowly updating the L lenses to Mark II's.

Other fast L primes that needs updates due to age and demands of future camera sensors are the 35L, 135L & 180L. Slower L primes and L zooms have a few more years to go before Canon does anything with them.

A lot of people will say all these lenses are perfect as is but these lenses were designed for film and not sensors. 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years from now you will notice how bad Mark I L's will look like on future digital bodies but remain superb on film and current digital bodies now.

Was there a memo about a change in the physics of light that I missed? Why would a lens that passes "X" amount of light to film not pass "X" amount of light to a sensor?

[peterbj7]

When I said I expected the MkIV to have 30mp I meant the 1Ds, of course. I still expect that. The 1D probably won't reach that level.

I've never understood why digital places greater demands on lenses than film. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

[eror11]

When I said I expected the MkIV to have 30mp I meant the 1Ds, of course. I still expect that. The 1D probably won't reach that level.

I've never understood why digital places greater demands on lenses than film. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

It's basically like this - film had a certain amount of resolution determined by the emulsion on the film that received the light... resolution being - the ability to distinguish 2 adjacent lines one from the other. Let's disregard the fact that you can't see the differences till a point, but they exist. Of course, lenses have resolution too. Some people may refer to it as sharpness and whatnot, its normally measured in line widths / picture height or lines per inch. Lens producers supply people with MTF charts which display these values. MTF charts for each lens are different, so that's why you'd buy the new 18-55 vs the old one (it has better optics, let's disregard the IS for the moment). Now as the new sensors develop, they are reaching higher and higher resolutions and are approaching values where the sensors can actually resolve to a more precise extent then the lenses (remember the lines from the beginning? 21mpx sensor has over 5,5k lines of pixels on the long side, means you can put 2.7k 1-pixel-wide black lines of "information" on it, with white lines between them in order to be able to say you can distinguish between two blacks). This basically sucks cos if we can't get our lenses to resolve more, we don't need to invest into the "better" sensor either, there's no point. Basically, the lens will mash up 2/4 pixels worth of "real world" information into one blob on the cameras 2-4 pixels. The risk of this happening with film was never even close to significant so this wasn't something anyone ever thought about.

[dolina]

As mentioned earlier light is recorded differently by film and digital sensors. Just to add to error11's explanation film lenses were not designed to offset a lot digital-only IQ anomalies like say pixel vignetting, purple fringing or even CA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration#Photography).

Pixel vignetting is yet another potential cause of image edge darkening. An image sensor is composed of millions of photon wells that measure/record the light hitting them. The photo wells, although extremely tiny, have a depth to them. Just as the late day sun does not hit the bottom of your trash can, light hitting the sensor at a strong angle may not hit the bottom of the photon wells. The strongest light angles will be found at the image edges. Reportedly, most manufacturers compensate for pixel vignetting in their sensor algorithms. Also, newer sensor designs may show decreased amounts of optical vignetting.

Source: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/canon-lenses/Canon-Lens-Vignetting.aspx

On one lens I have I experience vignetting depending on the angle my light source is at. I am not that meticulous with vignetting.

Some references so I do not have to rewrite what has already been written before.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331

http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/photo/photo_lenses.htm

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Gtq2

It makes more sense for the the 1Ds4 would have a 38MP sensor based on the pixel density of the 50d & 500d. Remember the 1-Series bodies are updated every 3 years so they have to be a bit more future proof than what lower-end models. The 1D4 would probably have a 15MP based on the MP of the 40d vs 1d3 within the year they were released.

Ever wonder why Canon would even bother spending any R&D on "perfect" L lenses to Mark II's? You'd think it be better spent on fixing the 1D3.

Again this should only concern you if IQ and future-proofing are top priorities. In my case I do not like buying end of life products at full retail price. If you have faith that film and digital record light the same and do not believe a single thing I wrote then great for you. You're in for a bargain in Mark I L lenses.

But believe me when you mention this to others they'll vehemently deny it and call you elitist but in 5-10 years time they'll call you a prophet.

The 300/4L IS and 400/5.6L will be the last two L primes to be updated. Then the L zooms will start being updated. Notice also no progress in the non-L EF lens line since 2004 and the elimination of some non-L line from Canon USA's EF lens website.

Was there a memo about a change in the physics of light that I missed? Why would a lens that passes "X" amount of light to film not pass "X" amount of light to a sensor?

[FlyingPhotog]

FWIW, this is not a new phenomenon...

In my working world of television, we've always understood that lenses suffer from light fall off around the edges. Particularly the uber-zooms (1000mm) when approaching fully zoomed in.

I think one of the best arguments/explanations is one of the replies in the Photo.net thread. Many people aren't used to seeing the entire image captured by FF because they've shot APS-C which only uses the "sweet spot."

[dolina]

True but what about FF film? No one spotted it the whole time it was in vogue?

If you notice now on MTF charts the graph doesn't fall as badly on the Mark 2 L's than the Mark 1's the replaced. I believe the Mark 2s will be marketed for a decade or two in terms and useful in terms of IQ for three decades.

Going back to topic I hope the 1d3 replacement will have autofocus at f/11 even at center. Lenses that would benefit are f/5.6 lenses with extender 2x attached to them.

FWIW, this is not a new phenomenon...

In my working world of television, we've always understood that lenses suffer from light fall off around the edges. Particularly the uber-zooms (1000mm) when approaching fully zoomed in.

I think one of the best arguments/explanations is one of the replies in the Photo.net thread. Many people aren't used to seeing the entire image captured by FF because they've shot APS-C which only uses the "sweet spot."

[FlyingPhotog]

True but what about FF film? No one spotted it the whole time it was in vogue?

Oh I had my fair share of mid-grade glass (Tamron Adapt-All anyone?) that suffered from light fall off. Especially at longer focal lengths. I had a 60-300 that was a total dog at 300mm @ f/6.3... :lol: Looked more like the stock spyglass shot used in pirate movies... :rolleyes:

If you notice now on MTF charts the graph doesn't fall as badly on the Mark 2 L's than the Mark 1's the replaced. I believe the Mark 2s will be marketed for a decade or two in terms and useful in terms of IQ for three decades.

I freely admit I'm not a "chart peeper" but I wonder if any of the improvement was a byproduct of the attempt to engineer sharper corners? If the light gets to the sensor cleaner and less distorted, does more of it get there as well?

[dolina]

Your Tamron's connected via adapter? In which case I would think a product not designed to match another product without 3rd party intervention would have issues.

You dont need to peep at no stinking chart. Just check out the improvements of the 16-35L vs 16-35L2 and the design decisions to improve light fall off.

I've read some people not experiencing vignetting on the 16-35L but they're the minority and probably shot with the light coming from an ideal direction.

Then again IQ isn't everything to everyone. Some people are bothered by it and can do something about it while others are not bothered by it for one reason or another.

[FlyingPhotog]

Your Tamron's connected via adapter? In which case I would think a product not designed to match another product without 3rd party intervention would have issues.

Back in the FD days, Tamron "Adapt-All" lenses came out of the box with no mount. You bought the proper adapter for Canon or Nikon and some others as well. You could swap the mount around if you didn't care to have the same number of mounts as lenses.

[peterbj7]

Different subject, but are there EF mounts for Tamron Adaptall/SP lenses? I have a couple I'd like to try on my 5D.

[GMCPhotographics]

Going back to the original thread, the 1DIII / 1DsIII replacement's specs will be dictated by the processor used. Canon design a sensor to match the throughput capacity of the camera's processor and the FPS that the model is expected to need in it's particular market. The 1Ds and 1D both share the same processor but their fps is different which allows one model to have a higher resolution capacity, where as the other model gets a lower rez, but higher frame rate.
The next question is what processor will it be getting? If it's digic 4 then a dual processor version is good for about 150mb/sec. If we assume 5fps and 10fps, we get 30mp @ 5fps and 15mp @ 10fps.
If Canon moves upto a Digic 5, then a dual processor version is alledgedly good for about 225mb/s, which gives us 40mp @ 5fps and 22mp @ 10fps.
It's all in the math really.