Canon 60D - better ISO or more megapixels?

[George.ML]

The title says it all - would you prefer the 60D to have better ISO or more megapixels?
Compared to the 50D, that is.

[GregMik]

ISO

Greg

[JeffreyG]

I suspect it will add video mode and some horrible compromise of more pixels and worse noise.

[michaelnel]

+1, I'm with JeffreyG! That's not what I *want* to happen but that's what I believe will happen.

[tupper]

I doubt that anyone will vote megapixels that knows anything about cameras..

[_aravena]

^agreed

This debate never changes actually...so, technically it's not even a debate? Why do we have these again?

[tupper]

I predict at least 95% to ISO in 24 hours.. if not more.

[Rey.dos]

i'd rather have iso than MP...speed is critical...

[nphsbuckeye]

By the the time I want to buy another digital I will have graduated to 5DX or 1DX. But, ISO is much more important.

[GetOnMyLevel]

I doubt that anyone will vote megapixels that knows anything about cameras..

Pretty much.
Low noise @ High ISO is what the 60D needs.

[DarthVader]

The more interesting question is...when this 60D will show up ? :D

[Cash]

Please Canon no more megapixels!!

[nphsbuckeye]

Please Canon no more megapixels!!
It's not that MP are necessarily bad (although we are reaching a point when a faster computer is necessary), but it needs to be done without taking away from IQ. Which we saw from the 50D.

[Mocows]

ISO, no question.

[DDWD10]

D60 -> 10D no MP change
20D -> 30D no MP change

50D -> 60D hopefully no MP change!

15.1 is more than many of Canon's lenses can resolve.

[DarthVader]

I hope they drop it down to 6 MP :D

D60 -> 10D no MP change
20D -> 30D no MP change

50D -> 60D hopefully no MP change!

15.1 is more than many of Canon's lenses can resolve.

[mattograph]

This camera will come to market with same mp, slightly better ISO performance, and real time auto focus/manual shooting for the added video mode.

It will be a prosumer wet dream. Everyone will want one.

[ironchef31]

"Better ISO"
I wish that it will be so good that IS lenses are a waste of money.
Not likely that will happen eh?

[waylandcool]

Higher IQ > MP any day. I'd take less megapixels to get a really good ISO 400 image any day of the week.

[Perry Ge]

None of the above? Give us more DYNAMIC RANGE!

[mattograph]

Why? You are saving your money for the 1D4, or the Nikkor 85 1.2!

[Perry Ge]

Why? You are saving your money for the 1D4, or the Nikkor 85 1.2!

Huh?

[mattograph]

Its no secret that:

a) Perrye loves his 1D3
b) He would probably love the 1D4 more
c) He'd sell both for FF Nikon, if they had an 85 1.2 equivalent.

Haven't you ever been stalked before? ;)

[Perry Ge]

Its no secret that:

a) Perrye loves his 1D3
b) He would probably love the 1D4 more
c) He'd sell both for FF Nikon, if they had an 85 1.2 equivalent.

Haven't you ever been stalked before? ;)

Wrong :p. [Well you are right in that I don't actually give a damn what the 60D is like]

a) I LIKE the 1D3 (a lot). I love the 5D. [I have recently contemplated selling the 1D3 though]
b) Not for a few years. I don't buy new, current bodies - too expensive, gotta wait at least 2 years.
c) Now that I've found the 50L, I'm not so sure. The 400 5.6 and 24-105L IS are also keeping me with Canon - that plus the 5D.

d) Yes :lol:. But never by Bruce Willis.

[mattograph]

Wrong :p. [Well you are right in that I don't actually give a damn what the 60D is like]

a) I LIKE the 1D3 (a lot). I love the 5D.
b) Not for a few years. I don't buy new, current bodies - too expensive, gotta wait at least 2 years.
c) Now that I've found the 50L, I'm not so sure. The 400 5.6 and 24-105L IS are also keeping me with Canon - that plus the 5D.

d) Yes :lol:. But never by Bruce Willis.

Welcome to the party, pal! :)

[Perry Ge]

Welcome to the party, pal! :)

The don't give a damn party?

[mattograph]

The don't give a damn party?

No, that's down the hall.

This is the too busy to care affair. Cash bar but the shrimp is killer.

[Perry Ge]

And I'm an idiot because I missed the Die Hard reference the first time :lol:.

[mattograph]

And I'm an idiot because I missed the Die Hard reference the first time :lol:.

Yippee Ki-Yeah!!

[Perry Ge]

Yippee Ki-Yeah!!

:lol:

[gooble]

If they did increase the MP what do you think it'd be? 18MP, 21MP? There isn't an 18MP camera on the market is there?

Personally I hope the leave it at 15 and make a good improvement on the high ISO quality. I'm inching closer and closer to getting a FF body so I don't know how much a 60D will mean to me anyway.

[John_TX]

Canon with the 50D was like one of those sick skits about how many clowns you can fit in a car.

[Dave__C]

I want so many pixels that a single photo will fill my 4GB card and I can crop down enough to bring out every imperfection from my optics!

Imagine the beautiful chromatic aberation shots we will achieve!
;)

[J1000]

I would love to see them cut the number of megapixels.

[John_TX]

I would love to see them cut the number of megapixels.

I'm kinda liking 21MP on the 5D Mk II (although they're hell on my little core2duo @ 2.4ghz & storage requirements).

[Stealthy Ninja]

40MP FTW

Seriously though. If they dropped it down to 12MP or so and made the high ISO as good as the 5D classic, I'd be all over it.

Hang on... why not just buy a 5D classic?! :lol:

[greg20d]

I would much prefer ISO but the CEO's think the pubic want pixels

[kevindar]

I agree with some of the posters that the area most lacking and desirable now is better dynamic range. the camera performs very well up to iso 1600. Improving high iso performance requires design changes in the sensor. Until they came out with the gapless microlenses there has not been much of an improvement in high iso image quality, with over all quality in raw (which is all that matters) primarily determined by the size of the sensor.
I would be more interested in such things as a good implementation of vide. maybe better weather seal

[FlyingPhotog]

I would much prefer ISO but the CEO's think the pubic want pixels

The CEO doesn't care what the public wants...

The CEO wants to see sales figures in the black based on what the Marketing People are convincing the public they think they want.

[Stealthy Ninja]

I would much prefer ISO but the CEO's think the pubic want pixels

Pixels in my pubic isn't something I'd want. :p

[cpforyou]

40MP FTW

Seriously though. If they dropped it down to 12MP or so and made the high ISO as good as the 5D classic, I'd be all over it.

Hang on... why not just buy a 5D classic?! :lol:

If they took the 5D Classic, added the DIGIC 4 processor and increased high ISO performance, kept the megapixel the same, and also allowed sRAW formats, I personally would be all over it.

[Stealthy Ninja]

If they took the 5D Classic, added the DIGIC 4 processor and increased high ISO performance, kept the megapixel the same, and also allowed sRAW formats, I personally would be all over it.

5D redux. :) That would be pretty cool actually. Good 2nd camera to my 5Dmkii (I'm actually planning of getting a 2nd hand 5D to back it up).

[butugly]

If they improved the iso on the high side would that mean an iso of below 100 would be possible.

[xknowonex]

I hope they delay it as long as possible so that my 40D wont be too obsolete :(

[butugly]

i second that had mine about 18 months and still learning

[xknowonex]

i second that had mine about 18 months and still learning

18 months is a long time. I just upgraded 2 months ago.

[Stealthy Ninja]

I hope they delay it as long as possible so that my 40D wont be too obsolete :(


Yeah, funny how cameras suddenly stop working 2 generations down the line. :p

[David Ransley]

Hi, we may all be late. I found this (someone is smoking something strong):

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=30798841

May, 2010


Canon's newest release in the 1.6 crop line of amateur camera bodies, the 60D, has been on the market now for several weeks, and has developed a suprising hate-following among Canon photo enthusiasts, despite the fact that reviewers have claimed that the new camera is substantially improved over previous XXD bodies.

Much of the reason for customer dissatisfaction may be found in Canon's announcement that the 18.0MP sensor of the 60D would be the final resolution upgrade for the XXD line of bodies. Concern has been growing on internet forums that Canon is abandoning the 1.6 format, making customer investment in EF-S lenses a financial liability. In a public statement, Canon assured its customer base that commitment to the XXD line of bodies would remain strong, and that future improvements would continue to be made, in terms of build quality and feature set. Many posters however, in this forum and others, are expressing concern that Canon's dedication to this particular customer group may be short-lived.

Certainly, the feature set of the 60D would seem to enforce Canon's stated commitment to customer satisfaction, but even the evolutionary, and revolutionary, improvements have their detractors.

Chief among them is the new QF (QuickFocus) 1080p video capability of the 60D. Its critics point out that the maximum exposure time frame is only ten minutes, and that focus does not work adequately beyond ISO 3200. Of greatest concern, though, is the apparent fact that focus-lock (similar to the 50D's facial-exposure feature) is sluggish even in brightly-lit conditions.

Most surprising, however, is the level of criticism among early adopters that the noise issue has not been addressed properly in the 60D. In-depth tests, at DPR and other sites, has clearly shown that noise levels all along the ISO range (increased in the 60D to a range of 50 to 25,600) have been improved dramatically with the new Digic 5 processor to the point that they surpass the noise-reduction levels of the old 5DMkII. This is very good indeed for an amateur camera body, but the fact that Nikon's noise-reduction process is marginally more effective has caused a number of Canon advocates to consider switching allegiance. Their claim is that Canon clearly does not care for customer concerns.

As we've come to expect, the resolution increase of the 60D over the 50D is not that great, thanks to noise-reduction techniques. However, the image quality step-up from the 40D is very apparent, and may tempt these owners to spend the street price of $1,299 for the upgrade. As mentioned before, Canon will no longer increase MP resolution, but may choose to increase detail through new noise-reduction techniques, and perhaps through increased dynamic-range technology. 50D owners, particularly those who are disappointed with the improvements of the 60D, may decide to wait until November, 2011, to upgrade to the expected 70D.

Other improvements in the 60D are less awe-inspiring, and there is some criticism among Canon customers that needs are not being met in these areas. Testing has shown Auto-ISO to be reliable to 6400, but not beyond. Auto-bracketing, used for HDR imaging, has been increased to a nine-frame range, with a +/- spread of 4, but this compares unfavorably with Nikon's 12-exposure +/- 5 range. The 95% area viewfinder has been improved with a new 16-point focus screen, and several screens are optionally available. Sensor-cleaning technology has been improved yet again over previous models, auto-focus is noticably faster and more reliable, weather-sealing is more widespread and tighter, and dynamic range has been increased. However, the LCD display has not been improved over the 50D.

The improvements found in the 60D might have been substantial had this camera been released at the end of 2008, long before the gobal economy had begun to recover. The performance and feature-set in today's market, however, only make it middle-of-the-road. When combined with Canon's announcement that there will be no further MP increases for this style of body, one might easily understand why this camera has come in for more than its share of criticism.

On a personal level, I am finding myself in the same situation as at least a few other 50D owners. If I sell for about $700, will the few upgrades be worth an additional $600? Do I keep the 50D and spend thirteen-hundred dollars just so I can have the 50D as a backup? Either way, we're talking a lot of money here, and the decision on what to do won't be easy.

If you own the 50D, or even the 40D, what do you plan on doing? Your opinion, and any advice, will be much appreciated.

[butugly]

got enough megapixels so wont worry there,just keep plugging away with the 40D until it just falls apart by then should be a DSLR i can put on the tripod and say to it "take the perfect picture" !!!!!!!!!

[cfcRebel]

Ah, finally a worthy upgrade for my 20D. Will enjoy tons of new features & enhancements, but sensor-cleaning, lower noise, and HD video are essential to me.

[NeoTokyo]

Crisp Clear Clean high ISO's are all I ask for.

[AllenF]

ISO

[jcw122]

Either way, I vote less noise.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Its critics point out that the maximum exposure time frame is only ten minutes,

Who are the nong nongs that think they need such long film clips?

No movie ever has a scene longer than a few seconds before edit.. no cinematographer ever takes a 5 minute long shot... (spare me the references to obscure art flicks, I know it's been done, but as experiments.. not used in actual film making more than once a decade)

People thinking they need long duration video shots don;t really know what they are taking about.

[Seil]

I know it probably won't do anything, but I'm actually considering writing a letter to Canon. To me, it's either this 60D with better noise than the 50D and HD video, or I sell most of my stuff and get a 5D Mk II (I'm hoping there'll be a price drop by next year at the latest)

[brecklundin]

I think it should come with a neon pink body to go with the white lenses.

[FlyingPhotog]

I know it probably won't do anything, but I'm actually considering writing a letter to Canon. To me, it's either this 60D with better noise than the 50D and HD video, or I sell most of my stuff and get a 5D Mk II (I'm hoping there'll be a price drop by next year at the latest)

And Canon will be thrilled to know you passed on a $1200 body for a body that's (probably) still selling for twice as much...

Have a Nice Day...

[c2thew]

awesome reply

[Seil]

And Canon will be thrilled to know you passed on a $1200 body for a body that's (probably) still selling for twice as much...

Have a Nice Day...

Or I could tell them I'm switching to Nikon. Whatever might work, I guess.
I just think that the megapixel > high ISO was just for the XXXD's and point-and-shoots;
apparently it applies to everything but the "$1500 over my budget" category.

[Maxis Gamez]

I would like to see LESS NOISE!!

[HuskyKMA]

I would like them to up the ISO performance and drop the number of megapixels to what the 40D has.

[Bob_A]

40MP FTW

Seriously though. If they dropped it down to 12MP or so and made the high ISO as good as the 5D classic, I'd be all over it.

Hang on... why not just buy a 5D classic?! :lol:

Agree, 12MP with lower high ISO noise and improved DR would make for an excellent camera.

[low note lee]

Pixels in my pubic isn't something I'd want. :p

yeah, but generally, if there are more pixels, theres more noise :lol:

[danieltr]

Better quality control .....

[Bob_A]

Better quality control .....

Now were talkin' ... for any future Nikon and Canon equipment please.

[DDWD10]

At this point, who could want more megapixels? The Photozone lens tests have yet to reveal a single lens that can fully resolve on the 50D's demanding sensor. Please Canon, focus on improving dynamic range and high ISO performance. I'm not crowing for an 8 MP 60D or anything... just shift your R&D department from packing pixels to improving the sensor. :)

[AngryCorgi]

Better dynamic range!

[cdnclicker]

Agree, 12MP with lower high ISO noise and improved DR would make for an excellent camera.

Agreed. Besides, who gives a s**t about video on DSLR? This is photography people. You want video, buy a videocam.

[FlyingPhotog]

Agreed. Besides, who gives a s**t about video on DSLR? This is photography people. You want video, buy a videocam.

The inclusion of video has no bearing on this discussion...

It's a by-product of having "Live View" and nothing more.

[Stealthy Ninja]

Who are the nong nongs that think they need such long film clips?

No movie ever has a scene longer than a few seconds before edit.. no cinematographer ever takes a 5 minute long shot... (spare me the references to obscure art flicks, I know it's been done, but as experiments.. not used in actual film making more than once a decade)

People thinking they need long duration video shots don;t really know what they are taking about.

Mmm 2 hour long events don't count I guess. :p

I know what you're talking about though.

You shouldn't be using these cameras for events or long concerts etc. where you can't cut. There are other alternatives that work much better.