Let's all pick on Timmy!

[PhotosGuy]

Timmy commented that the Pope was dead & took a lot of flack for it - some because POTN is about photography - some for other reasons.
Zeke posted "Superman is dead", & the thread goes on.
So here's my question, What is "Chat" for, if not for general subjects? Do we really need a "Chat NOTPOTN", or do we just need a higher tolerance level?
EDIT:
Or maybe we just need a "Flames" section where everyone could vent?

[tommykjensen]

An area for subjects not appropriate for the other forums. Keep it related in some way to photography even if only in the abstract. Political and religious discussions are absolutely prohibited.

That is displayed on the front page just below the title of the general chat forum. I think that is very specific as to what the general chat forum is for. More or less anything is allowed except 2 topics that usually cause heated discussions and flames.

The 2 topics in question are different. The pope was a relegious person so that topic in my opinion fall under the category relegious discussions. Superman was not a politician or a religious person like the pope. So in my opinion with the rule in mind there is no question which topic is allowed and which is not.

As for timmies reaction on being reminded about the rule I find it completely childish and his ban completely in order.

Or maybe we just need a "Flames" section where everyone could vent?

In my opinion no. Flames lead to no good. Flames will turn this forum into a DPR forum which would be a real shame.

[pushtoexit]

Please stop.

[poke]

Personally I think that a siginificant world figure dying should be able to be commented on... BUT... as I'm mainly here to discuss photography, I can live with the fact that it's not up for discussion.

[Pekka]

Ok, let me tell you something.

Threads about politics, even when they are related to photography is some way, almost invariably lead to flamewars. That is why policial discussions are forbidden. Religion is also forbidden as a subject, but I will not ban people for sending e.g. photos of churches or mosks to share area, but if the posts comment on them by content and start a discussion about content then it is a different matter.

Superman is dead, Reagan is dead, Letterman is dead - those were not political debate posts.

When a topic is forbidden by forum rules, moderators have two choices to deal with it: delete or lock. In this case about The pope, I decided that lock is fine, because this is important news to big number of people and I feel for him even if I'm not Catholic. But Timmy still made an issue out of it. We did not ban him for that, he was very rude to one user the other day -- we've exchanged tons of PM's about his behaviour and given him miles of slack and nothing seems to change. You have not seen any of it, so please do not make assumptions when you see the tip of the iceberg. So this time it is long ban for him, he knew he had a chance to be here and yet he actively kept pushing us and the rules - god knows why.

Internet is full of forums for non-photography, religious and political discussions. There are also forums which let you rant and swear and bitch as much as you like. This is not that place.

[Belmondo]

Pekka's statement on the subject of Timmy is sufficient explanation for the actions taken. These decisions are made after considerable discussion among the moderators and Pekka, and are never undertaken lightly.

This forum is blessed with some of the most genuine good will and friendliness of any I'm aware of. We've achieved this in large part through strict adherence to a very simple set of rules---rules, I might add, that could have been written by our mothers, and are no more complicated than, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Every effort will be made to assist members in understanding the forum policies when they cross the line. Moderators will always give the benefit of the doubt when violations occur, and will work with a member through private messages to better understand the rules. Failing that, warnings will be given, followed by temporary bans, and finally, long-term or permanent bans.

I think we have an obligation to trust that these policies are fairly administered and not to question the actions of moderators, especially when all background facts are not known.

[Redbird_xo]

Long time ago, my parents taught me that I should follows the rules when I am in someone's house to play.

I think P.O.T.N. in some ways resembles "someone's house in the cyberspace." Paying all due respect, and hence, following his/her rules is not too much to ask for.

I agree with the Host on this.

[swatcop169]

Since I stated the thread about the Pope I'll just be honest and say that locking that thread was BS. The man was known around the world, more people will mourn his passing then you can imagin and posting that he had died and getting it locked because he's a "religous" man is BS. So what if I post about all my brothers in arms dieing in the line of duty? That isn't religour or politics.

[CoolToolGuy]

Look Out! We're ankle-deep in gasoline, and he's turning on the grinder!

Please try to understand - other people may legitimately have a much different opinion than you do, and this is not the place for those discussions.

Rick

[HJMinard]

Reagan is dead = not political debate
Pope is dead = religious debate = locked thread
There's a lack of consistency, and I just don't get it. Please help me understand.
If the thread had degenerated into a religious discussion ... then fine - delete it or lock it. But announcing his death is not religious - that's complete nonsense. It's news.

It is not my intention to flame anyone (I swear), and I'm sure timmy deserved his ban, so I'm not commenting about that. I'm just having a difficult time understanding the actions that lead to his resulting overreaction.

Letterman is dead? When did that happen? :)

[Pekka]

Since I stated the thread about the Pope I'll just be honest and say that locking that thread was BS. The man was known around the world, more people will mourn his passing then you can imagin and posting that he had died and getting it locked because he's a "religous" man is BS. So what if I post about all my brothers in arms dieing in the line of duty? That isn't religour or politics.

It was locked because it was off topic as stated in forum rules. I leaved it locked for all to see instead of deleting it. Is it so hard to see I came your way here?

Live with it.

PS. And one more BS from you and you'll get to see where Timmy went.

[pcasciola]

If the thread had degenerated into a religious discussion ... then fine - delete it or lock it. But announcing his death is not religious - that's complete nonsense. It's news.I completely agree, but then again, I'm not sure anything else could have been said that would have not been religious or political, so maybe a lock was the best idea even though some people are going to be offended by it.

[HJMinard]

I completely agree, but then again, I'm not sure anything else could have been said that would have not been religious or political, so maybe a lock was the best idea even though some people are going to be offended by it.

Excellent point, Phil ... hadn't thought about it from that angle. As long as it's handled with consistency.

[Pekka]

Reagan is dead = not political debate
Pope is dead = religious debate = locked thread
There's a lack of consistency, and I just don't get it. Please help me understand.


Reagan was not active president and the discussion was not flamewar. Again, as with the pope, topic was closed, not deleted because of respect. It is very consistent.
We have also deleted tons of threads that you never saw. I say it again so that everyone surely will understand:

The threads about The pope were forbidden by forum rules but left in view (closed, not deleted) because of respect to the subject.

[cmM]

I think I'm glad I missed that thread... :rolleyes:

How long is TQ suspended for this time?

I have to agree with the forum rules. Politics and religion in an international forum like this one lead nowhere except controversy.

[HJMinard]

Reagan was not active president and the discussion was not flamewar. Again, as with the pope, topic was closed, not deleted because of respect. It is very consistent.

Okay, fair enough ... I didn't understand from the previous comments that the Reagan thread had been locked. Consistency restored (in my mind).

Thanks for the feedback, Pekka.

Now, about David Letterman ... is he okay?!

[Pekka]

Now, about David Letterman ... is he okay?!

Mixed him with Johnny Carson.... :)

[Belmondo]

Mixed him with Johnny Carson.... :)

You mean Johnny Carson is dead? Oh dear.

[ssim]

You mean Johnny Carson is dead? Oh dear.

You don't get out much do you Tom, except for maybe the times that you get that one time use of a tripod.http://www.pbase.com/ssim/image/41170239.jpg

[CoolToolGuy]

Mixed him with Johnny Carson.... :)

Understandable for someone from Finland -

Carson used to say that he liked to vacation abroad because he could be just another person - no one recognized him because his popularity was very definitely in the US, and not much outside.

Have Fun,

[IanD]

Folks, again I ask you to remember who's sand box we are playing in here. The issue of locking the thread was pondered over for a long time before it was finally done. A lot of PM's were traded back and forth. The decision to lock such a thread is not taken lightly. We realized that leaving it open might lead to it heading south at a very rapid rate, something that no one wanted. What can be discussed and what cannot be is very clearly stated at the top of General Chat.
We have to realize that this is a Global Forum and be sensitive to topics and subjects that others might not understand or even care about.
In plain and simple English-

An area for subjects not appropriate for the other forums. Keep it related in some way to photography even if only in the abstract. Political and religious discussions are absolutely prohibited.

OK, now on to the next important matter............What about those Expos?:):):):)

[neil_r]

I saw the locked thread, but has Timmy been banned?


Is a rod not being manufactured for our own backs here? I do think this is a little heavy handed; there have been many threads in the “General Chat” area that have been either political, religious or both.

Last year a football player from America was killed in the Iraq war there was a thread that mourned the death of a hero, I have no view either way on that, but please don’t tell me that that was not political.

Last week I posted a “Happy Easter” message that was well received; to be honest it was possibly more religious than Timmy’s recent post.

I know we are all guests here and that we either obey the rules or leave, but it can be very difficult when there appears to be a rather haphazard application of these rules.

Just to lighten this a bit, I can give you a list of things I would much rather see Timmy banned for if you want :D

Regards

N.

[KennyG]

The two issues that should never be discussed here are religion and politics. You can turn friends into enemies in one post about either subject.

TQ has sailed very close to the wind a number of times in my book, and not just here. He accepted the rules when he signed up, plus any subsequent changes, just as we all have, and it is as simple as that- QED.

[scottbergerphoto]

I don't know about anyone else, but what attracted me to this Forum and why I have stayed is that I learn alot and share alot of information with other photographers at all levels of skill and experience, without the BS and ranting on some other forums. The rules of the forum keep it that way. If someone repeatedly becomes abusive to other members or breaks the rules in spite of attempts at remediation by PM's, then for the good of the forum, it's time for that person to go. No single member is more important then the Forum. The moderators are not perfect and don't claim to be. We do the best we can, on our own time, to keep this the Forum that Pekka intended it to be and that we have come to value. No more, No less.
Regards,
Scott

[Citizensmith]

What about Elvis? Anyone heard from him lately.

Here's the way I see it. I like this forum. Good people, good information. However, the folks running it owe me nothing. If they make rules I'll stick to them. If they said all my posts have to be in pink text I'd stick with it (or maybe just migrate back to the stone age forum over at photo.net). This is their forum that we get to use out of their good will. Their word goes no matter if you agree with it or not. Make a decent size donation and you opinion matters, otherwise just play nice like you are asked to.

So what about that priest that was running for congress?

[CoolToolGuy]

So what about that priest that was running for congress?

He has a set of very loyal Pages :o

Have Fun,

[Pekka]

I saw the locked thread, but has Timmy been banned?

Is a rod not being manufactured for our own backs here? I do think this is a little heavy handed.

Neil,

As I said before in this thread: this was the last action in long series of Timmy's actions. We do not ban anyone lightly and Timmy has had more chances to think it over and try again than anyone else here.

PS. Congrats on http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=65618 :)

[robertwgross]

The few (legal) religious topics that come up time after time here...
Nikon versus Canon
RAW versus JPEG

...what did I leave out?

---Bob Gross---

[pcasciola]

The few (legal) religious topics that come up time after time here...
Nikon versus Canon
RAW versus JPEG

...what did I leave out?

---Bob Gross---You forgot X-factor :D

[poke]

I value the fact that I came here as a complete novice newbie wet behind the ears photographer wannabe, and was able to post photos... read the responses... and not feel like an idiot. The people here are some of the most polite and helpful found anywhere on the net. If not talking politics and religion or anything that even smells like it is what we need to do to protect that environment... then so be it.

As a side note, when the leader of 1 billion people dies... it is a significant event regardless of your own personal persuasions, but if you want to talk about it, go to one of the news discussion forums at CNN.

We are here for PHOTOGRAPHY!!!!

:D:D:D:D:D

[defordphoto]

That's what it's all about Poke. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Bodog]

That's what it's all about Poke. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif
Amen! (whoops) :oops:

[Volatile]

Even though Poke has a good point, you also have to consider that many regulars here have developed friendships amongst themselves, and friends do eventually get off topic. I think it's proper that there is a General Chat area where people can discuss the weather or their new job or whatever.

That said, the rules of the forum are in place for a reason, and should be adhered to.

IMHO

[CoolToolGuy]

Even though Poke has a good point, you also have to consider that many regulars here have developed friendships amongst themselves, and friends do eventually get off topic. I think it's proper that there is a General Chat area where people can discuss the weather or their new job or whatever.

That said, the rules of the forum are in place for a reason, and should be adhered to.

IMHO

If there was an 'Enter At Your Own Risk' area, I would agree with that. I'm not advocating that necessarily, just making my point. However, it would still require the close attention of a Mod or Mods, and these folks are all volunteers.

Have Fun,

[eastcoast909]

'nuff said on this topic. About time to lock it away.

[Steve Parr]

I've got another forum I visit where politics and religion are permitted, and it can get pretty vitriolic at times. Certain things shouldn't be discussed, sometimes, by otherwise civil people; religion and politics being two of those things.

Besides, I'm just here for the free booze...

Steve

[Belmondo]

Even though Poke has a good point, you also have to consider that many regulars here have developed friendships amongst themselves, and friends do eventually get off topic. I think it's proper that there is a General Chat area where people can discuss the weather or their new job or whatever.

That said, the rules of the forum are in place for a reason, and should be adhered to.

IMHO

Volatile is right. We do occasionally digress when we’re talking to friends. Accepting that as a fact of life, let me add the following:

Nobody has ever been banned from the forum for being friendly, wandering off-topic, or discussing the weather. Nobody has been banned for being immature. Nobody has been banned for an occasional lapse in judgment.

To be sure, it really takes a concerted effort to get one's self banned from here. On those rare occasions when it does happen, you may be entirely satisfied that it had nothing to do with the weather or a new job.

[cmM]

Nobody has been banned for being immature.
...After a bus thread with about 300 replies, I don't think we'd have many members left :p :D

[Belmondo]

...After a bus thread with about 300 replies, I don't think we'd have many members left :p :D


It was a very mature bus.

[defordphoto]

It was a very mature bus.

You mean like a senior touring bus?

[roanjohn]

I read somewhere about a Canon 1200 sighting during this tragic event..........so I guess it can be photography related ;-)

Ro1

[PhotosGuy]

'nuff said on this topic. About time to lock it away. Just in case that happens, thanks everyone for the perspective. I still think we should have a "Flames" section. Then, when we click on "Post Reply", it would be automatically deleted!:D

[KennyG]

You mean like a senior touring bus?

Belmondo has a season pass. :)

[IanD]

Belmondo has a season pass. :)
and I be the driver of said bus.























I quit http://www.pbase.com/giant001/image/41516419.jpg

[CyberDyneSystems]

With blessings,
Thread is locked.