Dual boot XP and Vista - how to?

[philmar]

I am not a computer whiz....my passion is photos, not bits and bytes
I have 64 bit Vista that I have been holding on to waiting for it to 'mature' as an OS. Now I'd like to give it a whirl. I don't want to commit to it yet and would still like to have the option to boot with XP as I get better acquainted with Vista.
My current pc has:
Antec P180 aluminum mid-tower case
Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
Intel Core2 Duo E6600
3 Hard Drives:
2 x WD Caviar 320GB (data)
1 x WD Raptor 36GB (for XP/apps)
Antec TRUEPOWER TRIO 550W power supply

This is my plan...tell me if anything is wrong with it:
I am considering buying a 1 TB hard drive for my RAWs and photos and another Raptor for my Vista. So I'll have a 5 HD rig.
I'd like to install Vista on a new raptor. Use the new 1 TB drive for data. Keep my existing raptor for XP. And use the existing 320gb WD HDs for CS3 and Windows file page (and maybe backup for my jpgs). I already have external HDs that I use for backup.
I'd like to know anything that I may be overlooking, i.e. my power supply is not up to it, the case won't support that many HDs, it is impossible to set it up this way, the set up is wasteful, excessive ect.
What problems will I encounter?
And when my rig boots how does it choose which OS will boot?
If I boot with Vista, will I still have access to the programs loaded on the drive with XP? That is where CS3 is loaded.
What will my Vista desktop look like? How will I open a program (like CS3) on my XP HD?
If I upgrade to CS4 what potential problems might this setup create?
Is it foolhardy to have the programs on a different HD from the OS? This is what will be happening if I am booted in Vista. Will I have to move a lot of my programs to the HS with Vista?
As you can see computers aren't my forte - so thanks for the help/tips/advice/warnings...

[Moppie]

Here is how I did it, after about 12 hours of figuring it out and searching google:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=7007143&postcount=5

[philmar]

Thanks Moppie, not sure if I want them both on the same HD. Not too sure if I want to install Vista first - I already have XP installed with my apps.

I thought putting Vista on a separate disk would be a simpler, though more costly, solution.

[overclicker]

How to dual-boot Vista with XP (with XP installed first) - step-by-step guide with screenshots
http://apcmag.com/how_to_dualboot_vista_with_xp__stepbystep_guide_wi th_screenshots.htm

How to dual boot Vista and XP (with Vista installed first) -- the step-by-step guide with screenshots
http://apcmag.com/how_to_dual_boot_vista_and_xp_with_vista_installed _first__the_stepbystep_guide.htm

[Moppie]

I tried it on a seperate drive, and it wouldn't work.

Not sure if the problem was with the dual boot process, or with my mother board though.

[philmar]

Actually, I prefer the option of putting the different OSes on different drives. If one drive fails you still have your other OS, you don't lose both at the same time. Then you still have a machine while you are replacing and redoing the other OS.

For that reason I ruled out Microsoft Virtual PC 2007

http://www.microsoft.com/... .../overview.mspx?wt_svl=20323a&mg_id=20323b

I wonder if my boot drive is big enough. I find with the cache files from Bridge, ACR and Picasa that there's little room left for a partition.

[Moppie]

Actually, I prefer the option of putting the different OSes on different drives. If one drive fails you still have your other OS, you don't lose both at the same time. Then you still have a machine while you are replacing and redoing the other OS.



If you can make it work, then go for it. :cool:

[overclicker]

philmar, there are lots of ways of doing what you what you want. (XP & Vista - dual booting on the same or distinct drives) What I did:

BootIt Next Generation (BootIt NG, or BING) (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm) for partitioning/resizing/maintenance, and Image for Windows (IFW) (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-windows.htm) for imaging/backups. When you purchase both at the same time it's like $50 for the pair, and for me, worth every penny. I setup each OS on it's own drive, but you can just use one drive if that's what you want too, your choice. I found that it was easier/simpler to install XP on the first drive first, then BING. Get everything on XP like you want it, updated and all, then unplug the XP drive from the motherboard, then hook up the Vista drive, updates and all. Then, shut down, plug the XP drive back in, boot up into BING, find the Vista drive through BING and set that up as another choice to boot into. That, like I said is just one way, you can find other How-To Guides in WMV format movies (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm) too.

Another thing to keep in mind:
System Restore points and other recovery features in Windows Vista are affected when you dual-boot with Windows XP
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/dualboot.html

Also check out the TeraByte Sponsored Newsgroups (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/support-bootit-next-generation.htm) for a ton of answers that people who use it have already asked.

hth...

[jetboy]

Do to the boot priorities of most motherboards, I've never tried to dual boot from differant devices. Not sure if it would work or not. I couldn't seem to get Ubuntu to do it, but, thats not to say that Windows versions won't. Never mind the fact that I'm a nitwit and probably was messing a bunch of stuff up. Let us know how you work it out.

[Desertraptor]

If you have a new PC with a bios capable of selecting which drive to boot from then you have no problems.
The old way of duel booting was a pita. Simply install a 2nd drive. Disconnect the original drive and install the OS. When finished reconnect the original drive and reboot.
I press F12 to give me the option to select which drive/OS I want to boot.

Currently I am running Windows 7 (without issue) on the 2nd drive and Vista on the 1st.
Win7 is getting the better runtime ATM and I'm loving it.

[philmar]

philmar, there are lots of ways of doing what you what you want. (XP & Vista - dual booting on the same or distinct drives) What I did:

BootIt Next Generation (BootIt NG, or BING) (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm) for partitioning/resizing/maintenance, and Image for Windows (IFW) (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-windows.htm) for imaging/backups. When you purchase both at the same time it's like $50 for the pair,
thanks OC, I'll dredge these links for something. I doubt I'll pay another $50 to do this.. I just want to test drive 64 bit Vista. I always intended to go full time with it once it had matured(which is why I bought it with my rig but didn't install it). But this looks like too much money and work for a dual boot system - I probably will just wait a bit a migrate FT in the future. But I'll explore the links you sent. I really am considering upgrading to CS4 and 64 bit Vista would help.
Much appreciated.

[philmar]

If you have a new PC with a bios capable of selecting which drive to boot from then you have no problems..

How can I quickly determine that? By entering the BIOS?
I'll check the Intel site for now...

[RonS [WINDOWS-TEAM]]

Hi Moppie,
My name is Ron, and I’m part of the Windows Outreach Team. I thought I’d take a second and drop off this helpful link about multi-OS booting.
It’s direct from Microsoft, so should be the best resource for multi-booting Windows environments.
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/8572be9b-8580-49f7-9719-b3a4c42749fe1033.mspx .
Hope this helps!
Feel free to reach out if you have any other questions.
Cheers,
Ron
Windows Outreach Team

[Zoltan]

You already have XP installed, just install Vista on a seperate drive. Vista will search for other operating systems and create a boot database, similar to the old boot .ini file. When you boot your pc you will be given an option to boot to either OS.
I boot to Windows7, Vista, and XP. Each OS is on a seperate drive.

[MaxxuM]

You already have XP installed, just install Vista on a seperate drive. Vista will search for other operating systems and create a boot database, similar to the old boot .ini file. When you boot your pc you will be given an option to boot to either OS.
I boot to Windows7, Vista, and XP. Each OS is on a seperate drive.

Zoltan is right - you always start with the the oldest OS then install the next newer until you have what you want. There is just one thing to remember, whatever you do put vista on C: drive AND format the C: drive with NTFS and set it to active while installing XP (first). If you don't do these two things XP or Vista may get lost. I have three OSes on my current home computer. I installed XP first on the D: drive. I partitioned and formated the C: drive with the XP install then rebooted until I could see C: and D: drives respectfully. Vista doesn't care where it is or what other OSes are installed - it see's them all and will adjust accordingly. The main point is that Vista not mess up XP - which it won't if everything is left to it (Vista). The reason you want Vista on the C: drive is because later you may want to remove XP and this will be much easyer if Vista is the primary OS (C:).

What happens if you put Vista on the D: drive? Well, lets say XP gets corrupt? or the MBR (Main Boot Record)? If you put XP into the CD ROM it will fix XP but Vista boot loader will be gone. If you put Vista's DVD in the drive and repair the MBR you'll probably loose XP but Vista will work. What if you get tired of XP and just want Vista? If reformat C: (if it has XP) then again, you loose Vista because that's where the boot loader is located. This is the reason I say to make sure C: is formated with NTFS and set to active. This is because Vista always wants to be on the first drive. Always make sure C: and D: are formated and active.

There are more advanced ways to move around the boot records as well as setting other devices (external) as the boot location but I wouldn't use them unless you have a good understanding on how to fix or move them later.

Hope that made sense :)

[philmar]

;7488021']Hi Moppie,
My name is Ron, and I’m part of the Windows Outreach Team. Ihttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/8572be9b-8580-49f7-9719-b3a4c42749fe1033.mspx .
Windows Outreach Team

This sort of confirms what I THOUGHT would be the case - that it is possible to install it on another HD. Thanks Ron.
Ha Ha - I never thought I'd ever receive help from an Outreach Team. Where I live, Outreach Teams usually hand out sleeping bags to those unfortunate souls who sleep under bridges and highrise heating grates!!! Much appreciated.
Embarassingly I see I should have gone to MS as my first source ....

[philmar]

[quote=MaxxuM;7491623]Zoltan is right - you always start with the the oldest OS then install the next newer until you have what you want. There is just one thing to remember, whatever you do put vista on C: drive AND format the C: drive with NTFS and set it to active while installing XP (first)./quote]

Thanks Zoltan.

And thanks as well, MaxxuN. I already have XP installed to the C: drive. I just want to test drive Vista for now. Putting it on to C: at this point sounds like a lot of work, no? Will I have any problems if I put it on to F: or G: for now?

I really just want to test drive 64 bit Vista for a while - I will soon upgrade to CS4. When that time comes I doubt I'll be using XP much. If it is a PITA to remove XP when it is the C: drive, why eliminate it? Isn't it better off unused on the C: drive? in case the Vista seizes on me?
The only problem I can forsee is that the C: drive (with XP and its apps) would be a tad small for use as CS4 scratch disk/windowa file page. But I could remove as many non-essential programs from that disk (as they'll be on the Vista disk).

I guess your long reply was somewgat alarming...Just worrying about what risks I am assuming by putting Vista on the G: drive
FWIW, I have never had problems with XP in the 8 years I used it. Had a few with Win Me. Perhap why computer use is such that I don't do things that could cause problems. I use as many non-MS products as possible Thunderbird/Firefox (sorry Ron). I guess maybe it could be as simple as having good luck with hard drives....

[MaxxuM]

[quote=MaxxuM;7491623]Zoltan is right - you always start with the the oldest OS then install the next newer until you have what you want. There is just one thing to remember, whatever you do put vista on C: drive AND format the C: drive with NTFS and set it to active while installing XP (first)./quote]

Thanks Zoltan.

And thanks as well, MaxxuN. I already have XP installed to the C: drive. I just want to test drive Vista for now. Putting it on to C: at this point sounds like a lot of work, no? Will I have any problems if I put it on to F: or G: for now?

I really just want to test drive 64 bit Vista for a while - I will soon upgrade to CS4. When that time comes I doubt I'll be using XP much. If it is a PITA to remove XP when it is the C: drive, why eliminate it? Isn't it better off unused on the C: drive? in case the Vista seizes on me?
The only problem I can forsee is that the C: drive (with XP and its apps) would be a tad small for use as CS4 scratch disk/windowa file page. But I could remove as many non-essential programs from that disk (as they'll be on the Vista disk).

I guess your long reply was somewgat alarming...Just worrying about what risks I am assuming by putting Vista on the G: drive
FWIW, I have never had problems with XP in the 8 years I used it. Had a few with Win Me. Perhap why computer use is such that I don't do things that could cause problems. I use as many non-MS products as possible Thunderbird/Firefox (sorry Ron). I guess maybe it could be as simple as having good luck with hard drives....

Since Vista would be on another drive and you will not plan on keeping it (this install at least) then there won't be any real issues. Once you have tested Vista you can use a tool to remove Vista's book loading software so that it simply breaks Vista and XP won't even know it was there. Then you just format G: after you're done. To remove Vista's boot loader follow these steps (this will break Vista and will make XP the only boot OS - after this you can reformat G:):

1) Insert Windows XP, boot from it and enter R (Recovery Console)
2) Type FIXMBR (Fix Main Boot Record) then type Y(es) (You may have to input Admin pass).
3) Type FIXBOOT then Y(es).
4) Reboot Computer.

Before doing so, please back up all important data.

It will be a hassle if you're not into techie stuff but if it's important for you to test Vista then give it a try. The one main thing will be not to overwrite (install) XP in the install menu's.

[RonS [WINDOWS-TEAM]]

Hi philmar,
Glad I could be (somewhat) of a help. Let me know if you run into anything else.
Cheers,
Ron
Windows Outreach Team

[philmar]

So 2 OSes on separate HDs is not a problem. Now my question remains: is my PSU/motherboard/case up to the task of a 5 HD set up? I guess I could go with 4 HDs but if I have'em why not use'em? Well, if it causes the rig to internally combust I'll best not.

My current pc with XP installed has:
Antec P180 aluminum mid-tower case
Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
Intel Core2 Duo E6600
3 Hard Drives:
2 x WD Caviar 320GB (data)
1 x WD Raptor 36GB (for XP/apps)
Antec TRUEPOWER TRIO 550W power supply
BFG e-GeForce 7600GT nVidia GeForce 256 MB PCI-E
4 x 1.0 gb OCZ 800 RAM
1 LG GSA-H22N DVD RW 18x
Microsoft Basic Keyboard & Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical Black
Zalman NPS-9500-Cu-LED CPU cooler
Vantec Stealth 120 mm fan
1 TB WD external drive with separate power supply for backup (plugged in ONLY whenever I download new photo files that need backing up)
Use wireless USB antennae
Use USB receiver for wireless mouse and keyboard

My mobo is an Intel which I thought was designed to be a multi-HD server. Will my PSU handle all the above with an additional 150GB raptor and 1 TB WD Black caviar? Or should I ditch one of the older 320 GB WD HDs? Or should the Black caviar be forsaken for a Green caviar?
I'd like to have as many HDs as possible just so I can assign the CS3/CS4 scratch drive and Windows paging file to drives other than my data and OS drives.
Am I a hopeless dreamer? Perhaps.
Am I ignorant about PC power supply requires? Indeed. Will I need a new megawatt transformer coal powered PSU? Any further help is appreciated.

[philmar]

Have attempted to use Antec online power calculator but am not 100% certain I've inputted the criteria correctly but I think I should be fine. I got cloes to 400 Watts - but shouldn't i leave myself headroom?

Should I just downgrade to a 4 HD rig to be sure? The only reason I was to go with a 5 HD rig was because I would have 5 HDs after buying a new Raptor and WD 1 TB drive. I was just going to keep the 2 older WD 320 GB drives around for scratch disk and Windows file paging ONLY because I have them. But if it is a luxury that could fry the PSU, then it will be wise to leave them out - perhaps as yet additional backup storage.

[In2Photos]

Have attempted to use Antec online power calculator but am not 100% certain I've inputted the criteria correctly but I think I should be fine. I got cloes to 400 Watts - but shouldn't i leave myself headroom?

Should I just downgrade to a 4 HD rig to be sure? The only reason I was to go with a 5 HD rig was because I would have 5 HDs after buying a new Raptor and WD 1 TB drive. I was just going to keep the 2 older WD 320 GB drives around for scratch disk and Windows file paging ONLY because I have them. But if it is a luxury that could fry the PSU, then it will be wise to leave them out - perhaps as yet additional backup storage.
I think you could get away with only one 320GB drive for scratch and page file. If I am not mistaken I remember reading that your page file should be around the size of your RAM. So allocate that space on the 320GB drive and leave the rest for PS scratch disk. One other thing to think about with the extra drive is also the extra heat and noise. Make sure you have ample cooling.

[philmar]

Thanks!! though it may all be a moot point. From Intel (http://www.intel.com/Products/Desktop/Motherboards/D975XBX2/D975XBX2-overview.htm)site, I understand my motherboard has:

- Four Serial ATA interfaces with RAID support (four additional interfaces available with optional discrete RAID controller)
- One parallel ATA IDE interface with UDMA 33, ATA-66/100 support

If my DVD writer is SATA then I can only plug 3 SATA drives in to the mobo.
But I don't understand what "four additional interfaces available with optional discrete RAID controller" means.

Does this mean there are 4 SATA connections, PLUS an additional 4 more SATA conection IF used in a RAID config?
Or does it mean 8 SATA connections.

[philmar]

ok - I found out my board has 8 available SATA connections. My case has sufficient cooling and extra fans. I don't overclock and have a modest vid card.
I really just need help deciding what HD array to get.