New to flash photography - some questions

[AirbusA380]

Wanting to get into flash photography, I have a few questions about a flash setup.

I don't have a flash yet, so I'm looking to purchase either a 430ex II or a Sigma EF 530 DG Super. The Sigma has a higher guide number and is more like a 550ex (or so I've read..), but I wonder if there are any disadvantages, with the flash being a Sigma? I have no problem with third party products whatsoever, but we all know the focus issues with lenses.

Secondly, I'd like to start experimenting with off-camera flash. I've seen the OneLight Workshop (http://onelightworkshop.com/OneLight/Welcome.html) DVD which recommends a PW, infrared or plain old flash cord. However, I went looking on eBay and found a Wireless Flash Trigger (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4ch-Wireless-Flash-Trigger-V2s-for-Canon-430EX-II-380EX_W0QQitemZ310126198614QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C amerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraFlashUnits_JN? hash=item310126198614&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18).

What is the advantage of a PW over this product? The price difference is huge - is this what I want to buy if I'd want to start a off-camera flash setup? This wireless flash trigger wouldn't work with the Sigma flash, would it? Do I need a hot shoe to go along, or is this all I need?

I also have a Speedlite 177A (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/shared/speedlites/Speedlite177A/index.htm) lying around. All the settings manually, of course, but this shouldn't be a problem as the aforementioned workshop teaches you how to setup your flash manually. Can I use this flash in any way, like a second light source? Can I trigger it wirelessly?

Thanks!

[DigitalSpecialist]

Dan, take a look at the Metz line of Flashes, they have some really incredible products that are software upgradeble. http://www.metz.de/en/

And they synch up nicely with the Canon line as either Master/Slave!

[mickeyjuice]

www.strobist.com - lotsa really great info over there.

[dave_p]

From what I understand, the Ebay triggers are not nearly as reliable as PW's (by which I mean, sometimes they simply won't fire). As a happy medium, you might want to investigate Alien Bee's Cybersyncs or (I think) SkyPorts.

[40Dude6aedyk]

I have the Sigma EF-530 DG Super you wrote about as well as a Canon 580EXII. I do not have a 430EXII, but have read about it on this forum and believe it to be a lesser cousin of the 580EXII.

The Sigma is a worthy flash unit with something like 11 modes of operation and the quirks to go with it.

Your camera body will be able to control it in ETTL mode easily. Unlike a Canon flash, you will be able to use the body's flash control menu only in ETTL mode with the Sigma. What I mean by this is that with the Canon flash you will be able to set the manual mode and manual output levels with your flash control menu in your body. With the Sigma you have to use the buttons on the back of the flash. (You can also use the buttons on the back of the Canon flash as well, but you don't have to.)

Since the 430DXII cannot act as a master, these next sentences do not apply to you, but they do apply to folks who are deciding between a Canon 580EXII and the Sigma. The Sigma can act as a master, but you have become adept at using the buttons on the back of the Sigma to set up the master and slave. With a Canon, you can use your flash-control menu in the camera body to do all this. (You can also use the buttons on the back of the Canon flash as well, but you don't have to.)

Both the Canon and the Sigma have zoom-control/lenses in the flash head. Both my Canon and my Sigma change the zoom when in auto-zoom mode. The Canon knows about my crop-body and the displays a focal length that matches my lens while setting the zoom appropriately taking that into account. The Sigma knows about my crop-body, and sets the zoom appropriately for the lens, but displays the focal length as if I didn't have a crop body.

The Sigma has a plastic hot shoe mount. The Canon has a metal mount. Reviews often compare the "build quality". I find the Sigma on the outside to be about the same as the Canon.

My bottom line: If you like to push buttons and have no problem with experimenting to figure out technical details, then the Sigma is a worthy flash for you. If you hate to push buttons and cannot figure out anything by experimentation, then the Canon would be a better flash for you.

Other posts of mine about the Sigma for future reference:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=615751
(I'm still looking for the thread where it was stated that you have to cover up the Sigma's sensor with black tape or paper to use it as a radio-triggered slave.) Here it is: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=627166 and http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=625507

[AirbusA380]

Great! Thanks everyone.

One last question: can I use the onboard flash of my 50D to trigger a master flash, like the Sigma DG Super? I searched on this and found this (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=507346) thread but this only covered a 430ex, which can't be used in master mode.

[pellepiano]

The Sigma will fire by the light of another Flash, as it has a built in optical slave. The power has to be selected manually though afaik.

[AirbusA380]

The Sigma will fire by the light of another Flash, as it has a built in optical slave. The power has to be selected manually though afaik.

So let me get this straight. If I fire the onboard flash of the 50D, or my old Speedlite 177A for that matter, would the Sigma fire? How would I expose such a shot - as I will have two sources of light, one of which (onboard flash / 177A) I don't want coming in my shot.

Sorry for being such a newbie :D.

[40Dude6aedyk]

Great! Thanks everyone.

One last question: can I use the onboard flash of my 50D to trigger a master flash, like the Sigma DG Super?

Yes, but not as you are probably thinking. First, the Sigma DG Super does have an optical trigger mode so that it will fire when it sees a another flash go off. That does not make it a "master flash". Furthermore, that other flash could be the pre-flash from your built-in 50D flash and/or the picture-flash from your built-in 50D flash because the Sigma will see both of those flashes (even though you will not). That is, if you fire the 50D built-in flash, then the Sigma will go off prematurely with the pre-flash, and then a 2nd time if there is enough charge left in the capacitor with the picture-flash.

There have been a few threads on how to use the FEL (aka *) button to get pre-flash to fire, then wait for the off-camera flashes to recharge, then take the picture. This sounds like a pain to me.

I think that your 50D built-in flash has only ETTL mode, but not ETTL master mode, nor manual mode. So how would you control flash exposure? That's tough to answer because you would be mixing ETTL of the built-in flash and external manual output flash.

If you had a flash mounted on the camera, then it could be set in manual output mode and then flash exposure would just be a matter of trial-and-error or get a light meter.

[40Dude6aedyk]

... How would I expose such a shot - as I will have two sources of light, one of which (onboard flash / 177A) I don't want coming in my shot.
You will not be able to avoid on-camera flash from contributing light to your shot. I guess it is possible to somehow direct the light of the on-camera flash away from your view, but that light has to be used to trigger the off-camera optically-triggered flash, so it cannot be suppressed entirely.

[AirbusA380]

Alright, thanks 40Dude6aedyk, much, much appreciated. I guess I'll start off with the Cactus eBay triggers :)!

[Marloon]

here's my two cents. :D

first off all, here's my flash aresal: (1) canon flash (430EX I) and (4) vivitar 285HVs.

the reason why i have 1 canon flash is because if i dont intend to have off camera flash in an event, i can use the ETTL system on my hotshoe. and if you are going to buy canon's flashes AND the cactus system, expect A LOT of premature firing, and misfiring.

If you are going to off camera, go buy yourself some vivitar 285HVs. the reason why i decided to go with the vivitars is because of the following reasons:

1) they are cheap @ $90 from bhphotovideo
2) they are built well, and have a wide angle attachment that allows you to add gels to the attachment window.
3) if you are going to buy the cactus wireless system, they do not misfire, they do not prematurely fire and they work 100% of the time!

if you do a price comparison, you can have a wireless stand set up for cheap! ($90 flash, $45 light stand + 32" umbrella + adapter, and $24 cactus receiver = thats 160 for a wireless system!)

OH AND wait for the cactus v4 system. it seems very promising!