WTB: Canon Digital Rebel... Standard or XT?

[spyd4r]

Hello I am just getting into SLR digital cameras. I was wondering should i go for the Standard or XT Digital Rebel? Prices in my area put the standard at $950 CAD and the XT at $1299 CAD. Is it worth the extra cash for a beginner to get the XT? :cool:

thanks.

[Skip Souza]

Get the very best that you can afford and you will not be disappointed.

And get it in black.

[caesars0331]

color is irrelevant

[willg]

the 300d is at great prices now, i went for it and am not disappointed

[tim]

The XT is better in every way, and at least a few of those differences are significant. Get the XT if you can afford it.

Color is important. If it's silver it looks like a toy and attracts more interest, if it's black you look more professional. Choose how you want to look.

[vinnyveez]

The XT is better in every way, and at least a few of those differences are significant. Get the XT if you can afford it.

Color is important. If it's silver it looks like a toy and attracts more interest, if it's black you look more professional. Choose how you want to look.

what a stupid post. if you care what other people think, get an xt in black. i prefer to let my pictures speak for themselves, thats what makes the difference between a pro and an amateur. not the color or make of your camera. get the non xt and hack it. the differences between the 2 are marginal at best. if you believe the marketing hype over the chip size (6 vs 8 mp) then you are foolish. chip size over 6 mp is useless unles you are goingto blow up your shots to poster size. if that is your intent, buy the xt. if you are going to shoot family gatherings and such, the hacked rebel will be more than enough camera. check out this site http://www.camerahacker.com/Canon/DRebel_Comparison.shtml for a side by side comparison of the rebel/hacked rebel/rebel xt. and make your own decision. and please god do not listen to people who think that camera color is important. it is these same people that get hairplugs and spend every dime they have on a car they cant afford. spending their lives trying to impress somebody and not being confident in themselves. the decision on whether someone is pro or amateur depends on the pictures that come out of the camera, not the color of the camera itself..

[2goldens]

I have thr Rebel 300d and It is great. I have 3 other film cameras and I now use the digital all the time. The FM3 is a back up only. You get what you can afford not what others tell you. All the bells and things don't make the picture. YOU MAKE IT.

Anthony

[DocFrankenstein]

http://www.camerahacker.com/Canon/DRebel_Comparison.shtml for a side by side comparison of the rebel/hacked rebel/rebel xt. and make your own decision. and please god do not listen to people who think that camera color is important. it is these same people that get hairplugs and spend every dime they have on a car they cant afford. spending their lives trying to impress somebody and not being confident in themselves. the decision on whether someone is pro or amateur depends on the pictures that come out of the camera, not the color of the camera itself..
Burn him! :twisted::twisted:

Seriously though, black makes more sense. At least when you get the grip it's gonna be color coordinated. :confused:

[tim]

what a stupid post. if you care what other people think, get an xt in black. i prefer to let my pictures speak for themselves, thats what makes the difference between a pro and an amateur. not the color or make of your camera.

You're an offensive little person aren't you? Have you had both classes of cameras (10D/300D vs XT/20D)? Have you owned cameras in different colors? Have you observed the reactions of people to the different cameras? I have. People are used to silver cameras, they look like point and shoot cameras, and you're often treated that way - like a recreational shooter. Big black cameras get you different treatment - when you're carrying one people rarely question where you go or what you do - something i've found very helpful since upgrading from the 300D to the 20D. You can get similar pictures with each camera, but one camera will let you get into more places than the other.

The differences have been covered in detail, ad infinitum, so I won't bother to repeat them. 2MP isn't a reason to upgrade, but the higher quality sensor with less noise is.

[condyk]

For a general beginner type dude, like me and the chap asking the original question, I would guess a bargain 300D body, UnDutchables firmware and a half decent walk around lens like the 28-135 IS zoom would prove greater value, and decent consistency and quality, over the 350D Kit for almost the same money.

BTW, personal preference, but I got the grip and a silver 300D and they look good together.

Nice post vinnyveez ... exactly the logic I used when I chose the 300D over the 350D. HAad I been a Pro (as if!!) I may have chosen differently and so not bought either :-)

The UnDutchables Hack is a good addition to 300D giving valuable additional functionality at no cost. I also felt the 350 was a tad too small for me. 300D feels spot on with the grip when used with a larger zoom as it's got a better balance in the hand, at least for me.

As for camera colour ... in any profession or hobby, if you have the experience, talent and metaphorical balls then people will respect you. Respect based your camera colour, car, clothes, lenses, haircut, crocodile shoes, etc isn't worth having. It's hilarious ...

No offence Tim, honestly, I just have a different perception, but would a silver Rebel/300D with a big white L lens and battery grip get you in to more of your places, whereever they are, than a small black 350D with kit lens? Or what permutation of items/colours/sizes is optimum? I dunno if most people really notice or, frankly, give a ****.

[vinnyveez]

put it anothr way, if someone doesnt know enough about cameras and the different options, they surely will not miss the options available in the xt vs the rebel. for
you a black xt will allow you to get you into the vatican this week to get soem good shots of teh cardinals voting as the rest of the world wont be able to. please elaborate on the palces you ahve been that wouldnt let you in until they saw your black camera. pathetic. go get hair plugs. the right camera for you is something slightly different tahn the right camera for this guy. he needs a hacked 300d, nothing more. unless he wants to get backstage at a exclusive concert or meet teh president, then he needs a black xt, as apparantly it is the same as an all access pass.

[vinnyveez]

oh yeah my 6'4 230 pound body lets me and my silver cmaera in plenty of places. :)

[tim]

Color is a small thing, but helpful. Since I got the new camera people stay behind me wherever I go to take photos, one parade in particular springs to mind, and marshals don't bother you, at all, everyone else they were clearing out of the way. I got into the winners circle at a race course without anyone blinking. Little things.

It's personal preference mainly, but i'll not bother with a silver camera again. Buy what you like, I really don't care.

[drisley]

I agree time.
The color IS important. That is one reason I sold my big white L zoom and got nice small black primes. Carrying the white lens around the street garners alot of suspicious looks.
And, since I got my black 20d, I can move about with much more stealth than I did with the silver 300d. Plus I get much fewer comments like "wow! how much did that thing cost" with my 20d.
And vinny, being 6'4 means nothing if the security tells you to get lost, or if people complain to police about a suspicous looking guy taking pictures in public. Believe me, I've seen it happen.
If anything, being tall is a hinderance.

[vinnyveez]

911: how can i help you?
person: yeah there is a suspicious guy taking pictures
911: when you say suspicious what do you mean?
person: well he is tall and has a SILVER camera
911: dear god not a silver camera...well send the swat team over right away. looks like we may have to kill him

[RichardtheSane]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour
and that wasn't even funny.

The colour of the camera in some cases is important. Sometimes a silver camera is a plus, others it isn't. It is down to what the individual is confident using - yes colour can affect confidence. A black camera (believe it or not) can actually be more discreet than a silver one. Useful.

[drisley]

Hehe, funny.
Actually, I've seen and heard of several cases locally last summer where people taking pictures with digicams were hauled away and questioned by police because suspicious people and parents made a few phone calls. Sadly, this is becoming more and more common. And in all the cases the photogs were just innocently taking photographs.

[vinnyveez]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour
and that wasn't even funny.

The colour of the camera in some cases is important. Sometimes a silver camera is a plus, others it isn't. It is down to what the individual is confident using - yes colour can affect confidence. A black camera (believe it or not) can actually be more discreet than a silver one. Useful.

how on earth can a black camera be more discreet? a camera is a camera. its not camoflauge its black. that is he saddest argument i have heard. get what ever camera looks pretty, as you will meet chicks who like pretty things. the cops will bother you whether it is silver, black or whatevr color you paint it. this should not be a criterium.

[ScottE]

There are several factors that the hack for the Digital Rebel does not correct.

The start up time is 2 seconds on the Rebel and o.2 seconds on the XT. 2 seconds may not seem like a long time, but a moving subject or changing situation can be long gone. With 0.2 seconds the camera is ready to shoot by the time you get it to your eye. This is important no only when you first turn the camera on, but also when the camera goes into sleep mode. If you don't take a picture for 1 minute, or however long the you set the delay, you will have to wait for 2 seconds when you want to activate the camera again. This can be important if you have been waiting for an hour for a deer to step out from behind a tree, then have to wait for 2 seconds while it step behind another tree.

The Rebel shoots 2.5 frames per second while the XT shoots 3 frames per second and has a larger buffer so you can shoot more frames in a sequence. If you shot action sports or moving wildlife this can be important.

The Rebel is heavier and larger than the XT. If you want to take the camera backpacking you could consider the weight and size important.

I am not certain about this, but it is worth checking out. The XT may have less noise at high ISO settings than the Rebel.

One more consideration is whether you want to buy a new camera, then hack the programming so it may or may not be covered by warranty.

As for colour, I prefer black, but that is entirely a personal choice. Don't let the so called experts on this forum do your thinking for you.

Scott

[Skip Souza]

Get the very best that you can afford and you will not be disappointed.

And get it in black.

He guys! Lighten up!!!

When I made the black comment I was just hinting to my preference of the XT.
I am sure that the 300D is a fine camera and will work well for him. I am also sure that a hacked 300D is superior to a non-hacked 300d. A hacked 300d wil never have the CMOS chip of the XT, it will always be a souped up 300D. I tip my hat to those with the time and expertise to hack their 300D and hope that they enjoy it in good health.

There is no reason to make personally disparaging remarks about other forum members who express opinions that differ from yours. Opinions about equipment should not be taken as personal insults.

Photography is like life; It is too important to be taken seriously.

[rgravel]

If spyd4r was to buy a 300D and hack it, wouldn't it void his warranty ?

[DocFrankenstein]

If spyd4r was to buy a 300D and hack it, wouldn't it void his warranty ?
Prolly not


The Rebel shoots 2.5 frames per second while the XT shoots 3 frames per second

Actually it's 2.5 for both.

How many people shoot deer with the rebel? How many people actually need to get the shot?

[drisley]

how on earth can a black camera be more discreet? a camera is a camera. its not camoflauge its black. that is he saddest argument i have heard. get what ever camera looks pretty, as you will meet chicks who like pretty things. the cops will bother you whether it is silver, black or whatevr color you paint it. this should not be a criterium.
You are ABSOLUTELY wrong.
A black camera is more discreet because Joe Q Public equates silver digicam with high tech and big $$$.
I've experienced this first hand. I could not go anywhere in public with my DRebel without people saying things like "wow! look at that camera", or "that must have cost thousands of dollars" or "I'll trade you cameras!"In fact, I got similar comments with my G3.
As soon as I got my 20D, my first black camera, I noticed a big difference. Usually the only comment I get now is "that's a film camera, right?"
To most this isn't a big deal, but it sure made a BIG difference to me (not to mention I have to answer fewer questions about the camera from strangers.)

[tim]

You can replace the hacked firmware with the original if you need to send it in, unless the camera was completely dead. I've read reports of people sending in hacked cameras and Canon not mentioning it. If you break the camera in the process of hacking it, that'd be a different story. I hacked my 300D, no problems at all.

[drisley]

Tim I agree again.
I hacked my 300D, and used it that way flawlessly for 6 months. When I sold it, I flashed back to the original firmware without problems, and I am 100% certain there would have been no warranty problems.

[Carzee]

There's two different scenarios involved in the "looks vs purpose" posts above. In brief then

1. Stereotypical shooting in public, ssay a July 4 Parade, advantage is to have black cameras and goodies bag, and a vest (close to 100% "free pass" to the desirable position) - here's a pic of what I mean...

http://img1.picsplace.to/img1/5/1511/vest.jpg


2. Stealth/sneak/stalk mode for street/event candids... where "small is all", and camera colour is irrelevant.;)

[drisley]

Carzee, love that vest idea! I should have tried that at the Music Awards tonite hehe.
I was thinking about my point of the black camera. It depends on the individual. Probably for most, the colour won't matter. I can only speak for myself though, and the black camera did make a nice difference vs the silver as far as annoying questions/looks from Joe Q Public.
This is a matter you have to decide for yourself (obviously)

[Carzee]

Actually, you can get quite imaginative with just a vest and some screen printing, for street parades and events. Use huemungous, big, bold initials (just like those famous ATF and SWAT jackets). Ideas that come to mind...


"AAA" (small font under: "Access All Areas")
"AP" (small font under: "Amateur Photographer")
"AMAZON" (small font under: "Registered")
"PHOTOSHOP" (small font under: "Authorised")
"SAFETY" (small font under "Orange Vest")
:) (have a nice day) - wait, has that been done?
"STARS & STRIPES" - projects instant good vibes if you've got the verve to carry off the role and the build for it.
A bit like being in fancy dress in the end... you'd have to act the part a bit. A photo id hung around your neck would be good too.

Come to think of it, no wonder security for crowd events in these times is a big ask. Anybody can get surplus uniforms etc and go "fancy dress"... God Bless Homeland Security! [salutes]:rolleyes:

[RichardtheSane]

how on earth can a black camera be more discreet? a camera is a camera. its not camoflauge its black. that is he saddest argument i have heard. get what ever camera looks pretty, as you will meet chicks who like pretty things. the cops will bother you whether it is silver, black or whatevr color you paint it. this should not be a criterium.

Are you incapable of actually having a discussion?
and are you naturally offensive or does it take practice?

I don't give two hoots about the cops. Where I live we do not have cops who penalise photographers, I wasn't even referring to cops, where did I say I was?

I was referring to individuals. How individuals feel when holding a camera. How obvious holding that camera makes an individual feel. So you asked how can a black camera be more discreet. Well for a start you have a camera that is (usually) the same colour as your lens, and therefore has no definition and lines between the two. Harder to spot. Secondly, consider the 6-12 hours of the day where it is dark, much less likely to see a black camera. Just two examples, but you see I based my post around how the colour makes people feel, and not actually what it does.

You are just out on the attack. Sad really.

[mkh]

"The start up time is 2 seconds on the Rebel and o.2 seconds on the XT."

THis is a no issue. Simply set the sleep timeout so something higher like 8 minutes. Now you don't have to worry about the startup time. Just keep the sleep time higher than your average time between shots.

[vinnyveez]

You are just out on the attack. Sad really.

What is sad is that the advice that is often given here is of the canned type. As in “get the most expensive camera you can afford” or “get it in black and you will get all access passes to any place you want” or “black will allow you to be stealthy like a ninja, so cops will not even notice you” Be real. Not everyone is a techie freak that needs the latest and greatest to suit their needs. The guy would definitely be better off spending the additional 300 on some decent glass. As the 300 D + good glass will give you much better results than the xt with kit glass. We all know this. But it really comes back to what this guys plans are. If intends to get serious, then he should consider neither camera, if he is an amateur shooting bday parties and pics of his kids, there is no way in hell he will notice a difference between the rebel and the xt.

As I See it the major changes are as follows (and it isn’t true that the xt is better in every way as one poster incorrectly stated)


better chip. If the guy is printing 4x6 pics on his crappy home printer, I doubt there will be any noticeable change.
faster startup: 2 secs vs. .2seconds? who cares?if you are worried about missing a crucial shot, you are obviously in a different league than both of these cameras. Purely an advertising gimmick.
lower iso. Yes it is correct, the xt actually only goes to 1600 iso, but the hacked rebel gets you to 3200, so its actually worse there.
2.5 fps vs 3 fps. Give me a break. Another advertising gimmick.
When you really roll your sleeves up and do the math, it is obvious that the 300d is a much better deal for the amateur photographer than the xt which cost almost 50% more. If you are more than amateur, you should be looking elsewhere as neither of these cameras would be in my bag if I were pro.

As far as the black camera being less conspicuous , doesn’t that all go out the door when you add a massive L pure white zoom lens on it? If you want to be inconspicuous use a camera phone or buy a secret james bond pen camera, at least then if you get arrested you be able to sign any tickets you get.

[DocFrankenstein]

Vinny - so, uh... what's wrong with getting the black 300D?

[RichardtheSane]

What is sad is that the advice that is often given here is of the canned type. As in “get the most expensive camera you can afford” or “get it in black and you will get all access passes to any place you want” or “black will allow you to be stealthy like a ninja, so cops will not even notice you” Be real. Not everyone is a techie freak that needs the latest and greatest to suit their needs. The guy would definitely be better off spending the additional 300 on some decent glass. As the 300 D + good glass will give you much better results than the xt with kit glass. We all know this. But it really comes back to what this guys plans are. If intends to get serious, then he should consider neither camera, if he is an amateur shooting bday parties and pics of his kids, there is no way in hell he will notice a difference between the rebel and the xt.

As I See it the major changes are as follows (and it isn’t true that the xt is better in every way as one poster incorrectly stated)


better chip. If the guy is printing 4x6 pics on his crappy home printer, I doubt there will be any noticeable change.
faster startup: 2 secs vs. .2seconds? who cares?if you are worried about missing a crucial shot, you are obviously in a different league than both of these cameras. Purely an advertising gimmick.
lower iso. Yes it is correct, the xt actually only goes to 1600 iso, but the hacked rebel gets you to 3200, so its actually worse there.
2.5 fps vs 3 fps. Give me a break. Another advertising gimmick.
When you really roll your sleeves up and do the math, it is obvious that the 300d is a much better deal for the amateur photographer than the xt which cost almost 50% more. If you are more than amateur, you should be looking elsewhere as neither of these cameras would be in my bag if I were pro.


FWIW I agree with a lot of what you say here. I always maintained that it is more down to how the individual feels and what the individual feels comfortable with. I have always found it much easier to work un-noticed when I used a black slr and when I used a silver one (even a smaller silver one) I would more often get 'noticed' and approaced by members of the public.


As far as the black camera being less conspicuous , doesn’t that all go out the door when you add a massive L pure white zoom lens on it? If you want to be inconspicuous use a camera phone or buy a secret james bond pen camera, at least then if you get arrested you be able to sign any tickets you get.

mazzive L zoom lenses are fairly conspicous but then again with one of those you are often far enough away to not have to care as much ;)

I like my 20D + 50mm 1.8. Can be nice and discreet with that. Could be more discreet with a little rangefinder but I like my slr. Usually people with camera phones are pretty obvious!

[spyd4r]

does anyone know stores in canada selling the rebel for less then $950CAD or the rebel XT for $1299?

[vinnyveez]

Vinny - so, uh... what's wrong with getting the black 300D?

i dont think there is anything wrong with the black or silver or get it and paint it green with purple stripes. i am just staing that it is absurd to think that color will allow you to get more respect or get you into better "behind the scenes" situations. color is just color, not a status symbol or a declaration of your pro/amateur staus. get whatever color you like an dbe happy. you are among the lucky in the world that can afford to spend 700 (us) on a toy. :)

[roanjohn]

It's worth it........get the XT if you can afford it.

Unless you're really broke and you will be kicked out of your apt.........or you're a student......then the origianl Rebel is not too bad.

Ro1

[vinnyveez]

FWIW I agree with a lot of what you say here. I always maintained that it is more down to how the individual feels and what the individual feels comfortable with. I have always found it much easier to work un-noticed when I used a black slr and when I used a silver one (even a smaller silver one) I would more often get 'noticed' and approaced by members of the public.



mazzive L zoom lenses are fairly conspicous but then again with one of those you are often far enough away to not have to care as much ;)

I like my 20D + 50mm 1.8. Can be nice and discreet with that. Could be more discreet with a little rangefinder but I like my slr. Usually people with camera phones are pretty obvious!

funny story to pass on about all of this talk. My sister in law (soemone you could call john q public) was over yesterday and i was taking pictures of her baby. When i was done she asked me if i was gonna take some with my digital camera (i also have a canon s30 which is drastically different in appearance). Well i was using my drebel (silver...gasp). she thought i was using my nikon (gasp) film camera which is black (whew). So just goes to show that maybe john q public isnt really that observant after all. :) Bottom line is that we all sit here and eventually microscrutinize everthing to death but at the end of the day we have to realize that not everyone is on the same page as us. The pictures i took were pretty good, not great by any means (if i posted em here you could find 50 things wrong with em, as I did). But when i sent them to her she called me up crying because they were "the most beautiful pics she had of him". Sad really, as i was using a table lamp and the kit lens. No alien bees, no l lenses, no 580 ex... just a table lamp, drebel (not xt) and kit lens. sad because the other pics she had paid for (sears i think) were so crappy that she should have returned them, but had no other option (besides paying a few hundred for good shots). Moral here (i am rambling) is that john q public is not as educated as you think and wouldnt notice silver/black/film/digital, maybe in all of our warped thinking, but in actuality, they dont know, they just think cool camera, "how many megapixels?".

[vinnyveez]

It's worth it........get the XT if you can afford it.

Unless you're really broke and you will be kicked out of your apt.........or you're a student......then the origianl Rebel is not too bad.

Ro1


here we go again. Check out the link i posted and make your own informed decision. If you ahve any questions about the differences , post them here and we will help guide you based on your needs.

[drisley]

vinyveez, you are right about the public caring about mpixels.
But trust me, I have experienced the difference first hand how much less attention/questions the public gives me when I have a black camera vs a silver camera. It's like night and day. More people on the street were impressed by my G3 than my 20D. However, this may not matter to most people, so it may not be a big deal. I can only say it was a nice change for me.

[mikeymike]

where is the answer too the first ? at??

I have a 300d and a canon i9900 printer
and WOW!!!! is how i explain the photos

and i agree if he is going too get into photography then maybe he should get a 20d but the 300d with the 28-135 IS would prob. be a GREAT and much loved cam and lens

[CyberDyneSystems]

O-kay,..

Just to clarify,. I am about to lock a two page argument about the cameras color?
Just checking....