MP3 player,. Ipod or??

[CyberDyneSystems]

Any Ipod-MP3 enthusiast out there?

I was about to get an Ipod form the apple store,. when it dawned on me I know NOTHING about how theese doodads will work re: compatibility,. opn use,. riaa,. etc..

I did a little research,. and discovered some things that I did not particularly like.

Ipods can only be attached to ONE pc? (or Mac)

It looks like I have to load some dumb software on whatever PC I decide will be "the lucky ONE" ?

All I want of course is a devidce that will when hooked to a PC show up as a hard drive and let me copy MP3s to it. then I would hope it would let me use m3u play lists.

Is the Ipod no longer my best choice? Does it have copy control and reporting to some RIAA spyware network?

On evry other level Ipod seems the only way to go,. but if it's going to force specific software and some sort of copy protection on me then I may not be intersted. All my music is my own (I won the CDs) but that doesn't mean I don't know darn well that every copy protection device in existance is a bug laden POS that is bound to make everything stop working at some point. (I once used to play games on PCs and despite owning them the "CD-Check" was a sure fire way to have a system lock up in the middle of a game)

Any way
Two questions:
Can I live with Ipod and what do I need to know about it's uniqueness?

Is there another option that is as usable as Ipod (or nearly) that will behave more like an external drive?

[CoolToolGuy]

My daughter has one, and a good friend has one, but I have steered clear thus far. I have talked about some things that might help, but I may not have all the details.


You pretty much have to use ITunes (software that comes with the IPOD) to transfer the MP3s to the IPOD.
ITunes will allow you to rip CDs of your own.
ITunes does MP3 conversions, but you don't have to use it to do that part. My friend tells me there is a better CD-ripper available (and I think he said it is free or very low cost) if you want higher quality MP3s.
Someone will probably correct me if I didn't get it exactly right, but that's what I know.

Hope this helps.

Have Fun,

[Bruce Hamilton]

I'd stick with a player that supports WMA format, you can do everything through the media player.

[JBillings]

Get the iPod. It's the best thought out solution out there. The iTunes store is great. I've moved all my CDs into iTunes, about 7 gigs worth. I use it all the time. It's great for longer trips... no more chasing FM radio stations.

The build quality is great and so is the sound quality. The only drawback... We don't use our CD player any longer. Its easier to just set the iPod up on the home stereo and play it that way.

Just my $0.02 worth

[craniac]

I have been using iTunes for over a year (since the WinAMP guys lost the plot) and find it's interface to be really well thought out, making it quick to navigate through a large (35GB) music collection. I stay well away from Windows Media Player because I don't want DRM applied to any CDs I rip, preferring to use the MP3 format. I don't use iTunes to rip but CDex, an excellent freeware program for Windows.

A week ago I bought myself an iPod. I got the 30GB iPod Photo as with the camera connector that Apple has just released it will allow me to download photos from my camera/USB 2 card reader directly into the iPod, should I be away from my computer and need to free up space on my CF cards.

I have been listening to music almost non-stop since I got it and have also used it to listen to audio books during my commute. I would recommend wholeheartedly that you go for the iPod. One word of warning though. That shiny shell looks marvellous and feels great to handle, but it is extremely susceptible to scratching, so if you get one I recommend you buy a case of some sort at the same time. I bought a set of iPod Skins from Speck Products, but only after my iPod was scratched by being in the same pocket as my cell phone.

[MediaMagic]

I like the Dell Dj because of the scroll wheel. It's not as high on the list with the "cool factor" as the iPod, but the music reproduction is excellent and navigation is a breeze.

I'd also suggest a good set of custom isolation earphones. It makes a world of difference on any portable player. I'll track down the info if you're interested. Mine cost about $160.00 including the kit for the ear molds.

[craniac]

Let me try and answer some of your specific questions.

Ipods can only be attached to ONE pc? (or Mac)

I have used mine on my machines at both home and work. These are both Windows XP machines. I think that you cannot use it with two machines of different types, i.e. a Mac and a Windows machine. The reason for this is that the iPod (its drive anyway) gets formatted as either a Mac iPod or a Windows iPod. I imagine this is to allow the OS on the computer to interact with the iPod's mass storage device.

It looks like I have to load some dumb software on whatever PC I decide will be "the lucky ONE" ?

All I want of course is a devidce that will when hooked to a PC show up as a hard drive and let me copy MP3s to it. then I would hope it would let me use m3u play lists.

Is the Ipod no longer my best choice? Does it have copy control and reporting to some RIAA spyware network?

Yes, you need to use iTunes to transfer the music to the iPod, but it is a nice player and has very powerful mechanisms for building both static and dynamic playlists that can be transferred to the iPod.

I don't know whether it applies any copy protection to music ripped in Apple's own format (AAC I think it's called) but it can't for MP3s because the format has no support for this. I prefer to use CDex or Exact Audio Copy with the lame encoder to get the best accuracy and control over ripping to MP3. There is no problem with importing MP3s into iTunes.

Can I live with Ipod and what do I need to know about it's uniqueness?

I have experienced some difficulties when using the iPod's mass storage device to transport miscellaneous files. While it connects fine and I can happily copy files to and from the drive it creates (this is very fast) I have ejecting the iPod after doing this. There appears to be some application that is holding the device open, preventing the USB sub-system from ejecting it. I have had to disregard the "Do Not Disconnect" warnings and physically unplug the USB cable to regain control of the iPod. Haven't had an data corruption from doing this so far. If all you do when it is connected is to use iTunes to transfer music (and photos if you have an iPod photo) this problem does not occur.

[Scottes]

I have recently completed a rather major project of ripping all 380+ of my CDs into very high quality MP3s. (Not recommended for busy people!) Now I can create mix CDs for those long trips I'll be doing all summer. I **really** wish that I had purchased a car stereo deck that could handle CDs loaded with MP3s.

Since I am nearly an audiophile I did a lot of studying and testing and ended up following the advice from http://mp3.radified.com. That is, I use EAC - Exact Audio Copy - to rip to WAVs and then do an overnight batch run using LAME 3.90.3 using "lame -S --alt-preset cbr 224" for the conversion to MP3. While there's some difference from the original it's difficult to detect even using a Class A amplifier with some high-quality Sennheiser headphones. Lossless would be nice but it doesn't warrant the disk space.

So to get to the MP3 player...

I can't see getting one that couldn't handle photos. AND act as a hard drive when plugged into my PC. This would mean 40 gig IMHO. I'd like one that could have the drive upgraded by the end user, but that might be a pipe dream. I'd like to have one that could somehow play through my car stereo - but unless I buy a car with the iPod hookup this means FM transmission and I doubt the quality would be that great.

So far we have a lot of preferences but no definitive needs or demands. One would think that audio quality would be paramount to me - and it is, but IMHO any MP3 player's quality is easily improved with a good set of headphones. My wife's player went from good to extremely good when she bought a set of Bose headphones. (For $200 one would expect an improvement!) My Sennheisers sound great but they need a bit more power than a portable can produce it seems.

So my one demand for an MP3 player... The interface had better be damn good. My wife's player - an Archos GMini - fails on this point. The iPod's iTunes is very nice but I don't like the requirement since it seems to destroy the ability to use it as a hard drive. (Perhaps I'm wrong.)

But the interface should allow excellent and easy searching and sorting - one should be able to find and play a song quickly. Playlist support is a must, though I have no need for M3U if the software just builds one quickly and easily. I'd like to be able to "attach" keywords to songs beyond the normal MP3 tags. Basically I'd like the software to be a good music database. It should all run on the PC and be a vehicle to ease the use of the player itself.

Though I doubt that I'd get everything I want, so far it seems that the iPod is the best so far. I'm just hoping that someone will come along and make one slightly better, slightly cheaper, and more open.

[CoolToolGuy]

I'd like to have one that could somehow play through my car stereo - but unless I buy a car with the iPod hookup this means FM transmission and I doubt the quality would be that great.


I got this for my daughter's Beetle (well, it's actually mine, but she's the prime driver):

http://peripheralelectronics.com/ipod2car/index.shtml

This wim-wam hooks up to the changer port of the car stereo - no audio loss, and the radio controls work the IPOD like its a CD player (volume, skip, fast forward, etc). The cable comes out from under the dash and plugs into the bottom of the IPOD. Very Cool.

Have Fun,

[Scottes]

I got this for my daughter's Beetle (well, it's actually mine, but she's the prime driver):

http://peripheralelectronics.com/ipod2car/index.shtml
Too cool. Now I wish that I had ALSO purchased a stereo that could control a changer.... Grrrrrr......

[CyberDyneSystems]

Cool!

thanks Guys,. Ipod it is... :)

As for headphones,. Won't use em :)

I will be docking to my home stereo,. at work,. and maybe even get the radio transmitter for my Motorolla 4 watt AM radio in my car. :lol:

I used to RIP with Audiocatylyst in the old days,. now I've been using a program called jet audio for the last two years or so.. works very well. I remeber CDex from back in my Audiocatylyst days,. I look it up again.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Oh as for the one PC thing,. I thought that I-tunes itself had to be registered on a single PC,. multiple installs was not allowed?

[craniac]

Oh as for the one PC thing,. I thought that I-tunes itself had to be registered on a single PC,. multiple installs was not allowed?

I don't know about that. The iTunes software is offered as a free download so I don't see why Apple would restrict it to a single machine. It could be though that you may only register with the iTunes store from a single machine. I have no way of telling as South Africa is excluded from use of the iTunes store, which suits me fine as I would rather buy CDs than digital downloads.

Although I have iTunes installed I can't actually find any EULA or other licence agreement on my machine. I don't recall having to register the iTunes software when I installed it though.

[Moppie]

I couldn't download a copy of Quicktime with out getting iTunes as well.
Damn annoying as its something I plan never to use.

There are plenty of other MP3 players on the market, many of them just as good or better than the iPod.
Creative labs make some very goods one for example.
A mate got a very simple one the other day, its just has play, track skip and pause buttons on a small USB key sized device that plugs into the cigirate lighter. Then you plug any sized USB key loaded with your MP3s into it and it broadcasts them on an FM frequency to your car stereo.

[CoolToolGuy]

When I asked my daughter to delete the songs from the PC after she puts them on the IPOD (save some disk space and all that) she told me that she couldn't, because then ITunes would delete them from her IPOD. I didn't push, but if ITunes wants to synch up the IPOD with the PC it might be a usage issue that keeps ITunes on a single PC, not a license issue. :confused:

OBTW, there are some MP3 players that use a CF card as the storage. I was chasing them down about a year or so ago, because that removes all moving parts (no skips when jogging or when you hit a pothole), but at the time CF cards were too expensive per MB. Now, with the prices lower, it might be an option. It also lets you create 'albums' of music in the style for the moment. I know the IPOD and others let you create playlists, but the CF card option sounded interesting. Of course then you have the issue of keeping your photo CFs separate from your audio CFs. ;)

Have Fun,

[craniac]

When I asked my daughter to delete the songs from the PC after she puts them on the IPOD (save some disk space and all that) she told me that she couldn't, because then ITunes would delete them from her IPOD. I didn't push, but if ITunes wants to synch up the IPOD with the PC it might be a usage issue that keeps ITunes on a single PC, not a license issue. :confused:

The defaults are to auto sync but there are settings within the iTunes software to disable this so you have manual control, in which case you just drag on the tracks, albums or playlists that you want. BTW, if you drag a playlist, it automatically takes all the tracks it references with it but tracks are not duplicated on the iPod, if they are already there.

[craniac]

then I would hope it would let me use m3u play lists

I've just noticed that iTunes has a command to import m3u files.

[jazt]

Ok gang. I've been on the same decision bubble for a few weeks. I'm preparing for a two-week trip to Tuscany in June.

I've narrowed my choices to Epson P2000 or the Ipod Photo 30/60. Since Apple introduce the "Ipod Camera Connector, ($30 USD).

I've been leaning towards that. See review.
http://www.ipodlounge.com/reviews_more.php?id=6828_0_6_0_C

While it's only been available since, 4/1/05, reports indicate it's still slow and consumes more Ipod/Camera battery that desired, I like the versatility of the Apple.

Just to argue with with my self, I'm wondering if I'll miss the abilty to view Raw, Histrograms, and exif?

My basic need is to unload CF cards at the end of day, which negates the speed/battery issue.

Any thoughts?

[3oh6]

just a heads up having recently added an ipod mini to the fold of electronic devices in and out of this house. scratch the big notion that you need itunes...wrong and wrong. there are a couple of choices, this being my favorite...
vpod (http://www.vonnieda.org/vPod/)

it is basic and simple but for me does what i want it to do, transfer my already encoded and meticulously labled and maintained music collection onto an ipod device (ipod or mini, and prolly shuffle too) without having to re-encode them in anyway shape or form. you do have to add all your music to the 'database' of the program which takes 5 mins with over 700 albums. once thats done its a matter of check and un-check what you want on your ipod and sychronise...done and done. easy to update on a daily basis for those that change things up all the time. HTH someone becuase vpod has allowed me to love the ipods now too...who would have guessed.

[craniac]

just a heads up having recently added an ipod mini to the fold of electronic devices in and out of this house. scratch the big notion that you need itunes...wrong and wrong. there are a couple of choices, this being my favorite...
vpod (http://www.vonnieda.org/vPod/)

Interesting. I'll check it out.

As a matter of interest, do you listen to music on your computer? If so which player do you use. I have an intense dislike for Windows Media Player and the last decent (IMHO) version of WinAMP was 2.98 or thereabouts. I used to use WinAMP and had a toolbar folder containing subfolders for each letter of the alphabet. These contained my m3u playlists and this scheme allowed me to have a pop-up menu on my Windows start bar that let me quickly play any of my albums. I tried iTunes a year or more ago, long before I had an iPod, and found I liked its way of managing my collection and I have used it ever since.

[3oh6]

i do listen to music from my computer, pretty much all day long, and stick to 'quintessential player'. i used to use old school winamp but switched to quentessential a few years ago and have stuck with it. hahaha your toolbar look something like this...

**image edited out**

[craniac]

i do listen to music from my computer, pretty much all day long, and stick to 'quintessential player'. i used to use old school winamp but switched to quentessential a few years ago and have stuck with it. hahaha your toolbar look something like this...

Something like that, except the structure mine pointed to contained only the m3u files for each album so it didn't go right down to track level.

Now it looks like this, with the minimised iTunes in a toolbar so you can control it without the window being topmost.

http://craniac.afraid.org/images/taskbar.jpg

It was the necessity of having a topmost window with WinAMP that made me want to use something else, and this was reinforced when later versions of WinAMP became slow and bloated, and lost hotkey support.

[felix21685]

hey guys,

hopefully not all of you have gotten an IPOD before you consider this fellow :)

http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/m3/

i have one..and ive always liked saying i own an M3 :) wish it was a BMW but thats ok

i can digitally encode anything i plug into it on the fly.
i can tune into radio.record it digitally on the fly
i can use it as a voice recorder..
it accepts all sorts of filetpyes check out the link..
i am currently searching for a CF card hookup thing :) wish i could find one..havent looked hard..but that would be cool to save my pics on there as well.

and the best of all it shows up as another hard drive..so i can just use it as a 20GB jumpdrive :) and it was cheaper than the IPOD at the time also
check out newegg.com thats where i got mine.
-Felix

[CyberDyneSystems]

Looking at the website,. I notice "Jet Audio" on the front page... :)

Interestingly,. "Jet" is what I have been using for the last year or so...
Now I ma intrigued...

The whole Idea of an MP3 player ended up on hold a while back as lens fever set in again and my bank account is hurting.. ;)

Thanks for the heads up on this one.

[felix21685]

no problem. I have the 20gb one and i love it..

for an mp3 player.and the 80 dollar sony headphones i have..this is an extremely clean and crisp..set up..everyone that tries the setup says ..wow..
:)
-Felix

[exposingmyself]

I got this for my daughter's Beetle (well, it's actually mine, but she's the prime driver.

I need a Beetle for my iPod;)

[chris.bailey]

I have had a 40gb Ipod for about a year and it still wins every review I have seen. Mine has about 400 CDs on it in AAC format and I have had an aux line in jack fitted to the car so on a long trip I can set up a playlist, plug it in and just let it play. Itunes annoys me like nothing else but it does work.

[froman98]

I myself have an iRiver IHP-140. It has 40gb's of space and can handle MP3, WAV, OGG-Vorbis, and WMA. I like it because I plug it into a PC and it becomes an external drive. It handles both windows media playlists as well as winamp. If you're going to use it as a file dump, you can always get a USB-Bridge (http://www.delkin.com/delkin_products_usb_bridge.html) and use a CF card reader. The only problem is the USB Bridge that Delkin makes is only USB1.1 for now. As far as music, I love this player!! It also has optical inputs and outputs and 16hr battery life (that i can vouchefor). I like the player because it's usb 2.0 and works wonderfully as a backup drive for my PC.

The only downside is that it doesn't sync up with windows media player.. so I have to create playlists myself and put them on using windows explorer. not a big deal for me though.

good luck.