Video card advice needed

[Pinto]

One of my older systems that I use mostly for 3d work is apparently in need of a video card update. Systems are not one of my strong points so I would appreciate it if someone here would help me.

The current card is a NVIDIA Quadro FX 500/FX600 which I think is a 128mb card. The system is a Dell 3 Gig Pentium 4 with 2 Gigs of RAM. I have the most current Dell updates for this card.

I would like to run some CS4 programs on this system as backup. In order to run Lightroom 2 on this system I have to shut off hardware acceleration and then some 3D apps have problems. So would someone please suggest a moderately priced update for this video card. I only need 1280x1024 for this Dell monitor.

Thanks for your help.

[MaxxuM]

What's moderately priced for you? Personally, a mid level card that is well priced is the ATI Radeon 4850 and the nVidia GeForce 9800 GTX+. These cards can be had for between $130 and $200 and offer a lot of bang for the buck.

[Pinto]

What's moderately priced for you? Personally, a mid level card that is well priced is the ATI Radeon 4850 and the nVidia GeForce 9800 GTX+. These cards can be had for between $130 and $200 and offer a lot of bang for the buck.

I would think for this machine about $200.00 or under would be justified, so you're right there. Thanks for the help.

[Pinto]

I see the pricing is all over the board. Any manufactures you are partial to, or I should stay away from? Thanks.

[Michael_Lambert]

The Geforce 9800 has lots of good reviews. $170

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143164

[Pinto]

Thnaks Michael_Lambert. With rebate it's even better at $140.

Any clue on the difference between this card and the 9800 GTX+ MaxxuM referenced. I do see that the GTX+ requires a 500 watt PS. Something I'd rather not if I can help it.

[MaxxuM]

Yea, NVidia's typically require a little more power than ATI's atm. Here is an ATI 4850 and req. only 450w PSU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102770

[Pinto]

Thanks Maxxum. Got a chuckle out of the note on the product page. Apparently you are limited to a purchase quantity of only 99 of these cards every 48 hours.

[tim]

Is it really worth spending money on such an old machine? Will upgrading the video card really improve the speed much?

[YORCHI]

Is it really worth spending money on such an old machine? Will upgrading the video card really improve the speed much?
he can always use the card on an upgraded machine if he builds or buys a new one

[Pinto]

Looks like the power supply in this workstation is only 250 watt so I'm obviously going to have to replace it anyway. Are there any other hardware considerations to be aware of in replacing a 250w with a 400 or 500w? I wouldn't think so, but I'd rather ask now instead of after I smell smoke. Thanks.

[Pinto]

Is it really worth spending money on such an old machine? Will upgrading the video card really improve the speed much?

This Dell workstation is one of four systems and it works fine for me with the exception of the new problem with Lightroom freezing with hardware acceleration turned on. So yes, it's worth it to me. Thanks.

[MaxxuM]

Yourchi brings up a good point. Might as well think to the future. Buying parts that could go into a new system is a good idea. The cheapest PSU I would get would be this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052). I would personally go with this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153038). I like to have more power than needed and most of all, clean dependable power. The good thing about PSU is that it is unlikely to be outdated anytime soon like other parts.

[Pinto]

Yourchi brings up a good point. Might as well think to the future. Buying parts that could go into a new system is a good idea. The cheapest PSU I would get would be this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052). I would personally go with this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153038). I like to have more power than needed and most of all, clean dependable power. The good thing about PSU is that it is unlikely to be outdated anytime soon like other parts.

I had tentatively chosen this Seasonic, based on nothing but some reviews and the ATI Certified listing. You prefer the Thermaltake minimum you referenced better.

[In2Photos]

Consider the Corsair PSUs. They are highly rated. I picked up the 650 for my last build and it is awesome!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010320058%2050001459&name=Corsair%20Memory%2c%20Inc.

[Pinto]

Thanks, Mike. The variety of brands and models makes my head hurt. And forget about the reviews on each one of them that claims it fried the motherboard!

[In2Photos]

Thanks, Mike. The variety of brands and models makes my head hurt. And forget about the reviews on each one of them that claims it fried the motherboard!
Tell me about it! I asked the guys over at Anandtech about the parts for my new PC, just like I did here. I read lots of good things about the Corsair models so I picked one up. Be prepared that most of these PSU will have TONS of connectors. If you don't have much room in your case you might want to find a PSU that is modular so you only have to plug in the cables you need to the PSU. The Corsair models I linked to above have 3 modular models ranging from $110-$270 before rebates.

[Bobster]

well considering a FX500 is really the same power as a GF5200, you'll be looking for an AGP card?

i don't think they do 9800's in AGP? ;)

i would think you'd be hard pressed to get anything over a 6200 in AGP

[Tsmith]

Tell me about it! I asked the guys over at Anandtech about the parts for my new PC, just like I did here. I read lots of good things about the Corsair models so I picked one up. Be prepared that most of these PSU will have TONS of connectors. If you don't have much room in your case you might want to find a PSU that is modular so you only have to plug in the cables you need to the PSU. The Corsair models I linked to above have 3 modular models ranging from $110-$270 before rebates.

newegg was running a special on the Corsair 850 watt that was around $100 with a MIR and free shipping. Wish I as in the market for one but my Corsair HX520 has been stellar in my setup.

[oomus]

I see the pricing is all over the board. Any manufactures you are partial to, or I should stay away from? Thanks.
I have had alot of issues with ATI cards before and seem to have the best luck with compatability and drivers when using the nVidia cards. The last one I got was the 260GTX.

[Bobster]

ok, prehaps you guys don't realise, in order to use a PCI-E graphics card, he'd need a new Motherboard..

[Pinto]

well considering a FX500 is really the same power as a GF5200, you'll be looking for an AGP card?

i don't think they do 9800's in AGP? ;)

i would think you'd be hard pressed to get anything over a 6200 in AGP

Bobster, thank you for bringing that up. You may have a point, I've got to look.

[oomus]

ok, prehaps you guys don't realise, in order to use a PCI-E graphics card, he'd need a new Motherboard..

I didnt mean to make it sound like they needed a PCI-e card. I just stated that was the last one I got and it was a nVidia card not ATI/

ATI cards seem fine if they come from a major PC company that can write drivers for specific needs but for joe consumer the drivers seem to have more compatability issues than nVidia cards do from my experience.

Although I own a Sony Vaio laptop that works great on one several other PC's I have built over the years has had driver related issues.

Definately would need PCI or AGP based card for that PC pending open slots in the mobo and design.

[Moppie]

Most P4's should have a PCI-E slot in them, I don't think I've ever seen one with an AGP slot, but I don't doubt they are out there.

[Zepher]

Most P4's should have a PCI-E slot in them, I don't think I've ever seen one with an AGP slot, but I don't doubt they are out there.

Actually, most P4's are AGP and Socket 478, with the last year or two of them being socket 775 (Pentium D models).

I recently swapped out 2 of my machines that were P4 based. A P4 3.4Ghz with an AGP X1950 Pro and a P4 2.6ghz with an AGP X850XT.

[Moppie]

I have a 2 old P4s sitting here with PCI-E slots.

Of course only Pinto can tell us which one his is :)

[zeva]

AGP or PCI-E?

[zeva]

Opps totally didnt see this page... But ya my P4 has a AGP 8X also

[Bobster]

i believe the FX-500 only came in AGP flavour ..

the date of release for the FX-500 is 2003

[Pinto]

OK here's what the card configuration looks like so I guess it has to be AGP. I can't find the specs on this systemm so how do I determine what I can replace it with? Thanks again.

[Tsmith]

OK here's what the card configuration looks like so I guess it has to be AGP. I can't find the specs on this systemm so how do I determine what I can replace it with? Thanks again.

Right click on your My Computer icon and select properties. From there open up Device Manager, from there select Display Adapter. That should show you the type card that is installed.

You can also try this free app. to identify your card type if its made by either Nvidia or ATI: http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

[Bobster]

its a nvidia FX-500 Tsmith..

Pinto the highest you're going to go with a video card of AGP is a GeForce 6200 which isnt going to cut the mustard as far as CS4 goes or im guessing LR2

time to look at an upgrade to new tech

[Pinto]

Right click on your My Computer icon and select properties. From there open up Device Manager, from there select Display Adapter. That should show you the type card that is installed.

You can also try this free app. to identify your card type if its made by either Nvidia or ATI: http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

I know what the card is, that's not the problem. It's an nVidia QudroFX 500, 129 MB. But I'm not very knowledgeable in this area and I see the terms AGP 2.0 and 4X and 8X, etc. So what to I look for as a replacement? Is this a 4X card? Thanks.

[Pinto]

its a nvidia FX-500 Tsmith..

Pinto the highest you're going to go with a video card of AGP is a GeForce 6200 which isnt going to cut the mustard as far as CS4 goes or im guessing LR2

time to look at an upgrade to new tech

Sorry, cross-posted Bobster. So the newer 512 Mg AGP cards that are 4X/8X compatible aren't going to fit, or will be limited by the mother board?

As far as upgrading, I have an i7 with 12 Gigs of RAM being delivered the 19th so hopefully that should suffice for now. As I indicated initially, this system works fine for a lot of my work, and I just wanted it to function better as a backup with CS4 stuff. Thanks.

[Bobster]

as far as i'm aware the 6200 is the last of the AGP class cards, that is readily available through places like NewEgg but will not allow accelerated performance in CS4

[René Damkot]

Video cards tested for CS4: Link (http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb405445)

[Pinto]

as far as i'm aware the 6200 is the last of the AGP class cards, that is readily available through places like NewEgg but will not allow accelerated performance in CS4

What about all these? http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=agp+cards&x=12&y=35

[Pinto]

Video cards tested for CS4: Link (http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb405445)

Thanks Rene'. Not many cards on that list. My new i7's ATI HD 4850 isn't on the list. I hope I'm not in trouble with that too when it shows up.

[Bobster]

FX-4000 is basically a 6800GT, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133125 but will set you back $525..

Gigabyte 6200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125249) @ $40.99

[MaxxuM]

Here's a pretty good AGP card... Probably overkill for that computer though, but it's pretty modern.

Whatever poster said the 6200 series was the last of the AGP was wrong.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730

[Bobster]

Here's a pretty good AGP card... Probably overkill for that computer though, but it's pretty modern.

Whatever poster said the 6200 series was the last of the AGP was wrong.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730
the last of the Nvidia range that is AGP looks to me to be the 6200 from newegg.. i don't touch ATi

[MaxxuM]

the last of the Nvidia range that is AGP looks to me to be the 6200 from newegg.. i don't touch ATi

I've seen plenty of 7000 series nVidia AGP cards in the past. I don't know if you can find them anymore though. I thought I saw some 8000 series AGP cards too, but I have seen wrong.

EDIT: Here ya go, I found one pretty quickly. The seller is OK it seems, not the greatest, but this is vintage stuff they sell :)

http://www.amazon.com/Brand-NVIDIA-Geforce-7900gs-Graphics/dp/B001OFV7M0/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1236806901&sr=1-27

[Tsmith]

the last of the Nvidia range that is AGP looks to me to be the 6200 from newegg.. i don't touch ATi

I thought that same thing after using NVIDIA for years but have been thoroughly pleased with my new HIS 4870 1GB from ATI.

As for AGP cards, ebay is full of them at often cheap pricing. I got a 7800GT for my sons computer a few months back for $69 including the shipping.

[Pinto]

Thank you for the responses but I'm not getting my question answered.

I see the terms AGP 2.0 and 4X and 8X, etc. Is this a 4X card, an 8X card or what? In my post #37 above I posted a link to New Egg with a long list of AGP cards. Most showed 4x and 8X compatible. Will these not work for me? Thanks

[Zepher]

I have a 2 old P4s sitting here with PCI-E slots.

Of course only Pinto can tell us which one his is :)

Are you sure they are Pentium 4 and not Pentium D's? There were like only 2 Pentium 4 Socket 478 PCI-E motherboards back in the day, Albatron and Asus had one.

Pentium D's on the other hand came with AGP early on and then went to PCI-E.

For the video card, can you post the model of your workstation so that we can look up the specs, then we can recommend a card.

Did you already choose the PSU you are going to use?

[Pinto]

For the video card, can you post the model of your workstation so that we can look up the specs, then we can recommend a card.

Did you already choose the PSU you are going to use?

It's a 3 Ghz/800 FSB P4 Dell Precision 360. And no, I haven't chosen anything.

[Zepher]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102814

According to Dells site, you have either 305 watt (minitower) or 330 watt (Desktop) PSU and an 8X AGP slot. The above listed card should work alright with your system.

I am not sure how it will affect your 3D apps though since you have a dedicated 3D accelerator and the gaming versions of the cards don't really do 3D that great.

[Bobster]

I am not sure how it will affect your 3D apps though since you have a dedicated 3D accelerator and the gaming versions of the cards don't really do 3D that great.
the gaming cards are as fast as their workstation equivalent, the only difference is the rendering of a scene, you'll get more tearing with a games card vs a workstation card..

[Pinto]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102814

According to Dells site, you have either 305 watt (minitower) or 330 watt (Desktop) PSU and an 8X AGP slot. The above listed card should work alright with your system.

I am not sure how it will affect your 3D apps though since you have a dedicated 3D accelerator and the gaming versions of the cards don't really do 3D that great.

Thanks Manny. The PSU reads 250w. The Sapphire requires: 450Watt or greater power supply with 30Amps on 12 volt with 2x4 power connector recommended. So I'll see what I can find. Thank you for your help.

[Zepher]

Also, some Dell machines won't accept a standard ATX PSU without slight modding (a little bit of cutting).

[Pinto]

Also, some Dell machines won't accept a standard ATX PSU without slight modding (a little bit of cutting).

Great...

[In2Photos]

Great...
Ah come on! You knew that was coming right? :lol:

[Pinto]

There was always a flickering glimmer of hope...

[Moppie]

Dell = consumer product with a limited life span and limited ablity to upgrade.

Designed to be thrown away at the end of its life so you have to buy a new one, hopefully from Dell.


I used to try and upgrade my old computers, but learned pretty quickly that it soons becomes difficult unless you are doing it every 6 months, which is expensive.
The technology and standards are evolving at such a rate, that after about 2 years, it just makes more sense to start again with most of the internals and you get much better performance for your money.
So far I have gotten away with new bits every 4-5 years, with maybe a graphics card and RAM upgrade after 2 years.

[Pinto]

Video cards tested for CS4: Link (http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb405445)

FYI,this seems to be a more complete or up to date list: http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb405711&sliceId=1

[René Damkot]

Nice to know. Thanks.