60D... Keep it Simple Stupid

[pablo]

My wish list is pretty basic:

1. No more pixels, unless they can achieve much better IQ at high ISO (they HAVE to be better than the Nikon D90/300)
2. Improve the dynamic range in jpgs - give us some sort of in-camera highlight recovery that WORKS without having to work from RAW all the time
.... (and much lower priority)
3. SD cards (at what they cost now, there is little sense in Canon holding on to the past)
4. Electronically modifiable viewfinder (shhhh.... a la Nikon's on/off gridlines)
5. A better kit lens than the weak 18-55mm, recycled 28-135, or generally poor 17-85mm
6. Inexpensive wireless remote
7. GPS option would be nice but not critical

Until then I'll keep my 30D and Xsi, and as Jimmy Carter used to say (ok somewhat modified):

"I've keep looking on a lot of Nikons with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times...."

Pablo
http://www.modernstills.com

[AdamJL]

There's a "wishlist" thread like 2 lines below this one!!!

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=626148&page=6

[Patrick-70]

If Canon releases the 60D with your options ... I won't buy it.

[jm4ever]

Whats the big deal about SD cards? Most people who would upgrade already have CF cards and I'd be ticked if I upgraded and had to toss out my CF's to buy SD.

[pablo]

Patrick - I'm curious... which part of my list did you disagree with, or what features that are key to you did I miss?


Jim - SD cards are cheap (almost an insignificant part of the overall equipment costs) and have tons of uses (MP3 players, GPS, etc). More importantly as far as these cameras go, maybe Canon should be more worried about adding new users be they from film, consumer digicams (~90% SD), other DSLR camera manufacturers (likely SD) -- this would at least seem to be a better business strategy than salvaging what seems to be a progressively obsolescent CF cards. I bought 2 fast 4GB SD cards recently and they set me back about $22/ea.

[eror11]

On the other hand, sd don't have DMA transfer as cf do and hence can never be as fast, and will never be as resistant to damage as CF... I'd stick with CF until they made a significantly faster and more robust card

[Patrick-70]

Pablo,

I agree with 1 : I want the best IQ possible with the less noise possible.
# 2 : more dynamic range is better. The dynamic range was improved between the 350D and the 40D. I shoot either in jpeg or raw. I process them in the same way using Lightroom.
# 3. It doesn't interest me as I'm happy with my CF cards.
# 4 I prefer an optical viewfinder.
# 5. I won't buy the kit lens anyway. Having said that I have a collection of lenses classified as kit lens : 18-55, 17-85 IS, 24-105 L. I only like the last one.
# 6. You can buy a cheap wireless remote control on ebay.
# 7. no interest.

In my dream, I would prefer to see the 60D closer to a 1D camera than a 1000D camera. More pro features and less useless mode (CA, running man, ... ).

[nphsbuckeye]

No SD cards. They are small, harder to handle, and much more nimble. And don't have the power that CF cards hold. Sure, they can lure the lower crowds in, but many pros use XXD and want the CF cards. Oh, and the fact I'd have to buy new cards, which is insignificant in price, but a PITA and just another expense "just because".

[Mike55]

On the other hand, sd don't have DMA transfer as cf do and hence can never be as fast, and will never be as resistant to damage as CF... I'd stick with CF until they made a significantly faster and more robust card


SD is more robust, both for the camera and the card. That huge pin system on CF is ancient.

[smorter]

No SD cards. They are small, harder to handle, and much more nimble. And don't have the power that CF cards hold. Sure, they can lure the lower crowds in, but many pros use XXD and want the CF cards. Oh, and the fact I'd have to buy new cards, which is insignificant in price, but a PITA and just another expense "just because".

Insignificant? :O With the amount I've spent on CF cards I could have bought a L lens

[jwcdds]

I think CF cards are just fine.

[bluemotion]

either or.. i have just one cf card and buying more cheap sd cards might be the way to go as they have better space to money ratio than cf cards... and are just gonna get better.. it's not really a big deal.. but if they add video to the 60d... i'm sellin the 50d

[Thalagyrt]

# 4 I prefer an optical viewfinder.

The Nikon viewfinders mentioned are optical viewfinders, they have a clear LCD overlaid that can block out certain areas or show certain patterns, for example a rule of thirds grid that you can toggle on or off without changing a focusing screen. Another cool bit is on the D3x (and I think D3) when you put a DX (EF-S equivalent) lens on, it blacks out the portion of the viewfinder that isn't covered by the DX lens. That would be something very nice in the case of Canon's full frames, as they could then use EF-S lenses at a reduced resolution. It would also be great on the 1D4. It could simply be a FF sensor, and have a few switches to flip it to 1.3 crop and 1.6 crop, blacking out the viewfinder as appropriate.

[KenjiS]

On the other hand, sd don't have DMA transfer as cf do and hence can never be as fast, and will never be as resistant to damage as CF... I'd stick with CF until they made a significantly faster and more robust card

Thats coming, CF Fast its called, it uses the same form factor but swaps out the antique Parallel ATA-based interface for the more modern Serial ATA, promises transfer speeds of up to 3gb/s or 300MB/sec versus about 100 which is what we're limited to now [But only now just hit with the recent 666x cards shown at PMA)

SDXC which is the next iteration of SD only supports up to 104mbps, with "plans to increase it to 300 in the future" So SD is slower theoretically, or at least not faster than, CF

It is not backwards compatable however, and CF Fast cards and readers and equipment should be out in late 2009 according to most sources...the incorporation of CF Fast would give Canon a BIG advantage here

I'd say the 60D should have CF Fast, and an improved frame rate and buffer and other huge advantages when used with one, USB 3.0 on the camera would be a nice option as well (Hey it could happen if it comes later in the year..and keep in mind USB3 is compatable with USB2 so nowone will be left out because of it)

To be honest, a memory card is frankly a moot point however, they're cheap and they drop in price constantly..

What I DO want to see (And I heard in the grapevine this WILL be in the 60D) is an improved AF system of about 11-15 points and MAYBE a 100% viewfinder....

And Thal, the issue with your idea of FF Canon bodies using the EF-S lenses wont work, theres a HUGE difference between a DX Nikkor and the EF-S lenses, EF-S are Short Back Focus lenses, they protrude a bit into the mirror box on a APS-C body, the DX Nikkors do not, the problem with the EF-S on a FF body is more a physical and mechanical one than just simply "adding the ability into the body"

Theoretically, this allows EF-S lenses to surpass the Nikkors in quality....

Also, Sure, lovely, Nikon has the gridlines and such on demand, yes thats a feature I'd love, same with their ability to group focus points and turn them into "wide areas" versus points, but the D90 doesnt display your ISO in the viewfinder, the 40 and 50D do...

And yes, thats a feature I'd have over the gridlines, I've had times wherein I forgot the ISO I had my camera on last (Lately its around ISO800)

I came close to converting to Nikon, and I'm happy I stuck Canon right now...The D90 would have disappointed me..the D300 not so much, but the D90 definately would have...

And I'm waiting on a 60D eagerly, I WANT to be one of the first with it, I just do for once :)

[Thalagyrt]

And Thal, the issue with your idea of FF Canon bodies using the EF-S lenses wont work, theres a HUGE difference between a DX Nikkor and the EF-S lenses, EF-S are Short Back Focus lenses, they protrude a bit into the mirror box on a APS-C body, the DX Nikkors do not, the problem with the EF-S on a FF body is more a physical and mechanical one than just simply "adding the ability into the body"

Ah yea, I totally forgot about the short back focus and size issues with EF-S. Doh! :oops:

[Jethro790]

For those that say memory cards are not an issue, you must not own and use nearly as many as I do. If I had to buy SD cards to replace all my CF cards I would be $4-500 poorer. That is figuring and average of $10 per GB, which as I have seen is an optimistic estimate.

CF cards work just fine, let's not hope they change that up for the XXD bodies.

[KenjiS]

For those that say memory cards are not an issue, you must not own and use nearly as many as I do. If I had to buy SD cards to replace all my CF cards I would be $4-500 poorer. That is figuring and average of $10 per GB, which as I have seen is an optimistic estimate.

CF cards work just fine, let's not hope they change that up for the XXD bodies.

That is a good point, how many memory cards do you have though to be out THAT much?

Maybe a phase-in then? Have both CFast and CF on the camera?

I know Sony has Memorystick Duo and CF slots on their a700 for the people who upgrade

[PiRho]

I only bought one card when I first got my camera way back... then I waited impatiently for a deal to come along. sure enough a deal came along and I was able to get 4 more 4gb cards for closer to $2/gb. which I gladly did. so although I am not out too much money per GB I would not be happy at all if I wanted to upgrade my camera body and had to go through another waiting for reasonable deals period! I am happy not to be on the bleeding edge of technology! I don't have enough blood as it is! hahaha

oh yeah.. so as far as what I would like to see in the 60D all I really want is that
the 'useless' print button to be programmable.
better sealing,
better high ISO handling,
an upgrade in AF would be nice,
and it has to have the new 3in 'clearview' screen.

I don't care for the live view and movie stuff.
if it has SD card instead of CF. I won't buy it. I would prefer they didn't bother releasing it. Besides they already have a DSLR with SD cards... if that is important to you get a rebel.

[KenjiS]

I don't care for the live view and movie stuff.
if it has SD card instead of CF. I won't buy it. I would prefer they didn't bother releasing it. Besides they already have a DSLR with SD cards... if that is important to you get a rebel.

But think about this in reverse

You're a rebel shooter, and you have the same investment in SD cards that you currently have in CF cards and you want to upgrade to a better body..

You'd feel the same way wouldnt you? "I wont buy it because even though its better, it doesnt support the cards i already have"

I suggest a dual slot camera for this reason...SD and CF, just make it only able to write to one card at a time rather than both..this way people upgrading from a rebel can maintain their investment in SD cards and start upgrading to CF

Now me? I have a 1gb card and a 8gb card, thats all, and I need more because lately, my 8gb card fills fast...

[PiRho]

good point however I think that someone who is upgrading their camera body will be more likely to upgrade to a better card as well... but you are right if someone did have a couple hundred in SD cards they might not be happy about having to start all over again with CF.

I really don't see Canon putting both formats into their XXD series. I expect that will remain at the XD level.