My first wedding? Thoughts please

[tim]

I've been doing some informal shooting for my girlfriend’s amateur theatre company's Les Mis production, for experience (i.e. free). I've been shooting rehearsals, and I’ll be shooting the dress rehearsals too. They've seen the photos I’ve already taken online, and people have already expressed in interest in purchasing prints and/or a CD. The photos are here (http://www.mrwild.co.nz/Proofs/LesMis/), a mix of great, average, and downright bad, though my keeper ratio is probably 80-85%.

Anyway, to the point of this thread. On the basis of the work I’ve done there one of the cast members approached my girlfriend one day when I wasn't there, and asked if she thought I’d be interested in shooting their wedding. My GF told her I’m not a professional and I’ve not been doing photography very long (6 months since I went SLR), she said that's fine, they're practical people and aren't really too worried.

I haven't heard any other details yet, other than it's on in 4 weeks. Would I be mad to consider doing this?

Sure I’d like to get into wedding photography some time, not as a full time job, maybe as a side job out of interest. If I could make a living out of photography, great, but i'm not holding my breath. I think I could do an acceptable or even ok job, and even pull off a few great shots, I’m not sure that's good enough for someone’s wedding. On the upside, it'd be valuable experience for me, a foot in the door, and I’d probably enjoy it. Since I have four weeks I’d read as much as I could, plan things well, and I could even splash out on a little gear if what I had isn't enough. Thanks to my day job money isn't really an issue, either equipment costs or charging for the event, but of course I’d charge to cover expenses and a little bit for my trouble.

You can view more of my photos here (http://www.mrwild.co.nz), best to look at the proofs (http://www.mrwild.co.nz/Proofs), featured (http://www.mrwild.co.nz/Featured/index.html), and 2005 personal photo gallery (http://www.mrwild.co.nz/PhotoGallery/2005/index.html) sections if you'd like to see more of my work.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice experienced photographers would like to offer.

Edit - remember this is a 2005 thread, I don't really need advice at this level any more ;)

[robertwgross]

Tim, within the last few weeks, there has been extensive discussion on this. On one hand, some will warn beginners away from wedding photography and its problems. On the other hand, others will point out the many things to do correctly. I suggest you read over some of the old threads first, especially those written by "Bloo Dog". Some are entertaining, and some are educational.

---Bob Gross---

[TSEE]

Like Bob said, there's been old threads on this so you'd get some good advice from them.
If I was in your shoes I'd probably meet the couple first, see what they want and expect and then see if you could provide it. I had a similar experience a little over a year ago, and ended up talking to the couple and we agreed on them paying for the supplies (film, developing etc) and I'd do it. They were more than happy with the results, I even got a few poses out of it I want to use for my portfolio. If they're happy and confident in your photographs and style they'll hire you and you get what you call "a foot in the door" and if not, then don't worry about it.
Set down some ground rules, make sure you know what they want photographed so they'll be happy and so on. Good luck!

[tim]

Thanks guys. I was looking for thoughts based on my level of experience, i've read most things that come up and bloo dogs horror stories. The ideal thing to do would be to be a 2nd photographer for a while before trying one of my own, but this has fallen into my lap without me looking at all, and the couple seem quite relaxed. I'll talk to them, let them know my level of experience, and see if they still want me to give it a go, if they do, i'll think harder about whether I want to do it.

An inexperienced, enthuiastic photographer has to be better than no photographer at all.

[tim]

I'd still be interested to hear opinions on whether people think i'm mad for considering doing this, or if I should give it my best shot and do the best I can. I'm swinging back and forward between "terrible idea" and "what do I have to lose" right now.

[Maureen Souza]

Tim, you might do a few semi-freebies (meaning they pay for your supplies if you give them photos or a CD) in exchange for your chance at the experience. But I highly recommend you sit down with the B&G and make a list together of what they want/need/expect; then you all sign and date it. I personally find wedding photography to be more fun than headache and so far have been lucky not to screw anything up (that couldn't be fixed,LOL)
Good Luck!

[poke]

If you think that you can provide some nice shots... then you should do it definately.

If you think that no matter how hard you try, that all you will turn out is complete crap then maybe give it a miss.

You've got over 2000 posts on POTN, so I'm hoping you've picked up some knowledge and skills along the way ;)... She'll be right mate!!!! I say go for it :D

[tim]

Thanks, i'm leaning towards doing it, after telling the bride and groom exactly how much experience I have, cheers :)

[CaseyScofield]

I'd still be interested to hear opinions on whether people think i'm mad for considering doing this, or if I should give it my best shot and do the best I can.

I have only had the pleasure of shooting two weddings in my career. Both went well, but both were of members of our family. When I went into it, I knew that the expectations were not that high - due to this I was able to impress them (somewhat) with the end result.

Before you take the job, I would look to yourself and ask two main questions.

1) What is expected of me?
2) Can I provide what is expected?

I like your photo's, they are candid (that's kind of my style too), however weddings (brides especially) need to be the center of attention. You are going to be taking a LOT of staged shots, and you are going to need to direct these people within those staged shots. Being personable behind the camera is going to be just as important as the framed photo they put on their night stand. - If you feel you can do this, then I would say go for it!

[robertwgross]

Despite everything else that has been said, one fact remains.

Too many amateur photographers go to shoot their first wedding without knowing what they are doing. Basically, I am suggesting that you know, in advance, exactly what kind of camera rig and flash and bracket you are going to use. Practice in advance with it. Get somebody to help you practice. One wears white, and one wears black. Shoot them like you were shooting a bride and groom at a wedding. See what you get for practice. Then learn from that. Know, in advance, what your "shot list" is. You don't have to hit 100% of them, but a list reminds you of good opportunities too look for.

In my opinion, wedding photography tends to be pretty fast-paced. If you are there fooling around with tripod adjustments, they will not want to wait. As the bride and father are starting to walk down the aisle, you can't just say "Wait a second until my red light turns on!" All of that is unacceptable.

Now, if you have a good rapport with the bride, you tell them (in advance) that they approach the rear of the church and pause for a few seconds before they walk down the aisle. You have a prearranged spot where you will be shooting from. I recommend that to be about halfway in the church, next to the aisle. That is so there won't be so many other people between you and them. Then, by prearrangement, they do not walk down the aisle until they see your hand go up in the air. That is their cue that you have your camera fired up and ready to go. Without that kind of cue, things get hairy. Sometimes you need to work out the cue with the music instead of the bride.

---Bob Gross---

[tim]

Thanks or your thoughts Casey, Bob.

There's no chance i'll have a flash bracket before the wedding. I'm considering getting a lightsphere II for portraits, but Gary Fong hasn't replied to my email about shipping, so not sure i'll have that even. That's good advice regarding getting someone in white and someone in black to practice on, that will be invaluable if I can manage it. Cues sound like a great idea too.

My longest lens is a 100mm macro. i'm thinking a 70-200 would be very helpful for "down the asile" and "from the back of the church" type pics, but I can only afford the F4, which i'm not sure will be fast enough for indoor pics. Thoughts?

[robertwgross]

Thoughts?

If I can't use a flash bracket, then I would cancel.

---Bob Gross---

[tim]

Why? Red eye? Shadows behind them? I'm hoping really hard a LightSphere II will help eliminate the need for a flash bracket, and I wouldn't use a bracket enough right now to bother buying one. If I got serious about it, sure, but I don't want to buy equipment for a wedding i'm doing for free.

[cmM]

the couple knows your experience, the couple knows your capabilities, and they are "practical" people (hopefully meaning they down't have sky-high expectations).
I would definitely encourage you to do it. Make sure you talk ahead of time and know what's gonna happen and when, so you don't go to the wedding unprepared. Other than that, just have fun, and take some cool artistic shots. Wedding photojournalism rules! :-P

[tim]

I'm going to do it, after full disclosure, then i'll be spending 3 weeks reading as much as possible, and looking at loads of pictures. LS II is on its way.

Thanks for the help everyone :)

[Todd Jacobsen]

I'm going to do it, after full disclosure, then i'll be spending 3 weeks reading as much as possible, and looking at loads of pictures. LS II is on its way.

Thanks for the help everyone :)

I wouldn't gamble on the LSII saving the day. You should be able to get a camera bracket faster than the LSII anyway.

Many shots will require a fast lens more than a flash since many churches do not allow (or is it just edicate) flash use during the ceremony (which would include walking down the isle). The other point to make here is if YOU can use a flash, how many other people will use a flash too? Use of any flash during the ceremony opens you up for uneven lighting, particularly blown highlights, from unexpected places (aka family).

LSII, as any diffuser would, will help you with candids and portaits, but it is not the end all save all. In fact, you'll probably be better off with a multi flash set up for portraits than single flash w/diffuser anyway.

[tim]

I'll practice with the LS II once I get it, to see if it's required. I'm not going to get a flash bracket for a single wedding. I can always take an assistant and have them hand hold the flash with the off shoe cord I have, or do it myself.

I don't even know if the wedding will be in a church - that's not a given here. I wouldn't plan on using a flash inside for that, i'd have to use my Tamron 28-75 F2.8, or perhaps the 50mm F1.8.

A multi flash setup would be nice as would perhaps a light umbrella or soft box, but that's not on the cards right now. I'll see how this goes before I invest money in equipment I may or may not use again.

Thanks for your thoughts Todd :)

[billsh]

Tim
Having shot only half-a-dozen weddings, I'm not an expert. However, I would strongly reinforce Bob's suggestion to use a bracket or forget it. Please don't depend on someone to handhold your flash. That has disaster engraved in it. You wil be shooting shots both horz & vert. You will want the flash over the lense or you will have light fall-off, red-eye, etc. Too many things can go awry if your not prepared. Get a list of shots from one of the brides websites and plan out your shots with the couple. Recruit your wife or friend to assist you, especially for the posed shots.

You can have lots of fun with this if you come prepared.

Just my 2 centavos.
Bill

[MediaMagic]

Anyway, to the point of this thread. On the basis of the work I’ve done there one of the cast members approached my girlfriend one day when I wasn't there, and asked if she thought I’d be interested in shooting their wedding. My GF told her I’m not a professional and I’ve not been doing photography very long (6 months since I went SLR), she said that's fine, they're practical people and aren't really too worried.

I haven't heard any other details yet, other than it's on in 4 weeks. Would I be mad to consider doing this?



Is it a formal wedding with all the frills, bells, and whistles? Or is it just a little get together under the trees by the lake by a couple who can't afford much?

I recently created a rift in my family by refusing to shoot a cousin's wedding. I was approached and simply said "I'm sorry, it's not my specialty, but here's a card from a wedding photographer whose work I respect..." Now I'm the "selfish bastard who won't help family".... but that's a whole 'nother stupid Bloo Dog kinda story.

I'm sure I could have taken some excellent shots, etc, but I'm really just not qualified to *smoothly handle a wedding* by myself. I personally don't think a wedding is the place for any kind of trial and error, etc. It's too fast paced with emotions running on overdrive. Perhaps I might have done it if I were the assistant, taking candids, but leaving the "Must Freakin' Have" shots to the guy with the experience and know how. Or I *might* have done it if my relatives simply had zero money, etc etc, and wanted some nice pics of a simple ceremony.

My suggestion, considering all of the information in this thread, would be to politely decline this one. Try to get in with some local wedding photogs and offer to be an assistant for free. Watch and learn. Build up that resume of experience and knowledge while someone else is watching your back and covering your.. you know.

[tim]

Being an assistant first would be ideal, but given it's most likely me or no-one, me is better than no-one. I might ask a guy I know who's done a few weddings if he wants to help out, acting as co-shooters on the day. Still have to talk to the couple, which will probably happen this weekend.

[MediaMagic]

Well, with only 4 weeks until the wedding, there's definitely something different here anyway. Like you said, you'll probably be giving them something they would not otherwise have, so just blow them away with some beautiful shots. :)

[tim]

Well, i've agreed to do the wedding photos. I told the bride and groom I have very little experience and no experience doing wedding photos, and they don't mind. My expenses will be covered, and I refused payment given my lack of experience, but agreed that if they were happy with the quality of the photos they'd make a donation of their choice. That's fair for my first wedding, IMHO. I'm fairly confident that I can do better than the alternative : disposable cameras given to drunk guests.

Now, flash brackets, it seems that the opinion is that they're quite helpful, or even essential. Would someone be kind enough to link to a suitable flash bracket at B&H for me, or give me a name/model? There's so many to choose from, it's a bit difficult for a newbie. The stroboframe ones seem cheap, are they good enough?

My plan was to use a LightSphere II - can anyone who's used both give me their opinion? I have a LightSphere II on the way, and getting a flash bracket isn't too expensive, so I could just try it out myself.

[tim]

Thanks Bloo Dog. Flash brackets are cheap, I have no problem buying equipment in that price range if it's going to make a big difference, so i'll get one of those. Would you be kind enough to suggest a model? There are so many to choose from, and the pictures don't help because I can't even picture how to use them from the photos - though I understand the theory behind them fine. I would really want one that fits on my tripod, which is "Silk" brand - a reasonably cheap one that works fine.

I have NiMH batteries for my flash and the cycle time's fine, so i'll stick with them for now. I have a LightSphere II on the way too. I'll be ordering wedding photography books this evening - if anyone has any recommendations please let me know.

I'll be holding myself to a much higher standard than the bride and groom will. If i'm going to do this, I want to do it right, as based on this I may get either another wedding to do for experience, or a foot in the door for paid work. I suspect i'll take two of each of the set shots, mainly because people blink, look away scratch themselves, etc. 4GB of memory shooting RAW should be enough for that and everything else I want to do.

I'm still undecided whether a 70-200 lens is useful or necessary. I'm leaning towards not getting one for this wedding, and just using my Tamron. I could get a 1.4X teleconvertor for the 100 lens and use that as a 140mm F4 lens, there's kenko ones for $79 which is pretty cheap.

[tim]

Thanks Bloo Dog, i've called my local store and they say my cheapish tripod does have the universal tripod mount (hence universal I guess), so i'll get one of those :) With that setup will the flash bracket should be usable both on a tripod and held?

For anyone else who wants to look at it in action, look here (http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/EXT-FLASH/OTHER/Stroboframe-Quick-Flip-350.html).

[Todd Jacobsen]

Check this out:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=52728&is=REG

If you search the site you'll see other models which may appeal to you more, but the model 350 worked fine for me.

I've put mine on a tripod. Most (if not all) models will accept a standard tripod screw to allow for either direct attachment to a tripod or for screwing on a tripod attachment plate.

Tim,

Also check out the Stroboframe Pro-RL. It allows for 10/20D w/grip to do portait shots. Although more expensive, this bracket will allow you to grow into full frame DSLR's. Bloo Dog's link provides a search capability to locate this bracket.

[Todd Jacobsen]

Thanks Bloo Dog, i've called my local store and they say my cheapish tripod does have the universal tripod mount (hence universal I guess), so i'll get one of those :) With that setup will the flash bracket should be usable both on a tripod and held?

For anyone else who wants to look at it in action, look here (http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/EXT-FLASH/OTHER/Stroboframe-Quick-Flip-350.html).

Tim,

Not sure if the Quick Flip allows you to connect camera AND tripod. Probably has two adjacent holes but the holes have to be apart enough to allow for your camera connection thread (to bracket) and then space to allow for connection to tripod.

The Pro-RL has a separate camera mount (which can swivel to portrait) which is separate from the base of the bracket - which is freestanding. The freestanding option of the Pro-RL is VERY handy.

[tim]

Thanks for that Todd. I've made another thread about flash brackets to put the focus more squarely on them, instead of the tangent this thread's gone on. The new thread's here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=490044) if you can help more, thanks for your help so far :)

[tim]

I'm leaning towards the Pro-RL, despite it's 1kg weight. How do people find the flash coverage when the flash is horizontal and the camera's vertical?

I also wonder how the Pro-T attaches to the tripod, and the Pro-RL for that matter. After playing with my tripod (a US$70 "Silk" cheapie) I can't for the life of me work out how a bracket would be mounted. I hope I don't need to buy a new tripod to use a bracket :rolleyes:

Edit - and do I need anything to attach the 550EX to the bracket, or is there a standard show mount that it'll fit on out of the box?

[Todd Jacobsen]

I'm leaning towards the Pro-RL, despite it's 1kg weight. How do people find the flash coverage when the flash is horizontal and the camera's vertical?

I also wonder how the Pro-T attaches to the tripod, and the Pro-RL for that matter. After playing with my tripod (a US$70 "Silk" cheapie) I can't for the life of me work out how a bracket would be mounted. I hope I don't need to buy a new tripod to use a bracket :rolleyes:

Edit - and do I need anything to attach the 550EX to the bracket, or is there a standard show mount that it'll fit on out of the box?

I believe the 550EX comes with a stand. If it does not (580's do), then you need to buy a shoe attachment. Even if the 550 comes with a stand, you may find the attachment point does not match the screw that comes with the bracket (ie too long of a screw). In addition, the stand may slip slide away from alignment without a cork base to support it (like a lot of tripods have for cameras).

Stroboframe, as well as many others, provide shoe attachments that come with a pre-drilled screw hole on the bottom. I purchased one (well two) for my RL(s).

Most brackets will have a screw hole at their base in which to attach the bracket to the tripod. The problem occurs if the same piece of metal is used to attach the camera. If two holes are required, these two holes have to be adquately spaced to allow for a camera screw. Most tripods do not have extended screw lengths to accomodate two attachments with same screw. Also not wise to do.

The stroboframe QR comes with flat headed screw that can be flush with the metal. This flat headed screw attaches the QR plate to the camera.

I would suspect that the Pro-T model bracket would have a similar screw.

Since the RL camera mout is different attachment point altogether, this isn't an issue. The RL comes with a pre-drilled screw hole for tripod or QR attachment.

Both the Pro-T and RL come "metal molded" to fit a Stroboframe QR (ie QR plate not required, just QR base...mute point since all QR bases come with QR plates...)

[tim]

The 550EX comes with a plastic shoe that lets it stand on a flat surface, but I don't see how that would let it mount to a bracket. I guess I need to buy one of these (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=details_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=52772&is=REG)? Or will one come with the frame?

Is this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=52736&is=REG) the quick release plate i'd need to use with a Pro-RL? From what i've read having a quick release is quite handy, and with the mounting built into the bracket I just need this part for the camera, right???

I think an anti-twist plate sounds handy, something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=50547&is=REG) - thoughts?

[Todd Jacobsen]

The 550EX comes with a plastic shoe that lets it stand on a flat surface, but I don't see how that would let it mount to a bracket. I guess I need to buy one of these (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=details_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=52772&is=REG)? Or will one come with the frame?

Is this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=52736&is=REG) the quick release plate i'd need to use with a Pro-RL? From what i've read having a quick release is quite handy, and with the mounting built into the bracket I just need this part for the camera, right???

I think an anti-twist plate sounds handy, something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=50547&is=REG) - thoughts?

My 580EX stand came with a pre-drilled hole in the bottom for screw attachments. This stand did not work satisfactorily with my RL bracket (screw fully in flash stand but stand was not tight against bracket). It (flash stand) does work satisfactorily with tripod (for side lighting, I have 4 x 580s)

Your first link is what I use for my flash on the RL. If you use a Cannon Cord2 cable, this also comes with a pre-drilled hole that also works.

I just attach the cord2 cable to the stroboflash mount. This allows me to remove the flash from the vertical position and still have it connected to the camera. Not sure if this will ever come in handy, but it is an option.

The Stroboframe QR you could use for either RL or T bracket is B&H product #STBUQRC. This provides the BASE unit only, which is all you need. PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK PRO-T if it is QR READY!! I know the RL is. The Pro-T picture (B&H)leads me to believe it is.

You don't need an anti-twist plate with the RL if you like using a cork pad. The cork pad is provided and it covers a good portion of the base of either the 10D or 20D cameras w/wo grip. Looking at the B&H picture of the Pro-T, it does seem to come with a cork pad. Not sure if it is sufficient in size to inhibit all movement though. Good enough for tripod work.

[tim]

$47 for a quick release plate!!! That plate mounts to the bottom of my camera and stays there, and attaches quickly and easily to the Pro-RL frame? Is it necessary, or nice to have? I'll probably end up having to use the screw anyway, since i'd have to remove the QR plate to mount the camera to my monopod.

It seems my initial idea of getting a cheap $50 flash bracket's gone out the window. With The pro-RL, quick release plate, and flash mount, it's coming in at around $200, way more than I wanted to spend.

[Todd Jacobsen]

$47 for a quick release plate!!! That plate mounts to the bottom of my camera and stays there, and attaches quickly and easily to the Pro-RL frame? Is it necessary, or nice to have? I'll probably end up having to use the screw anyway, since i'd have to remove the QR plate to mount the camera to my monopod.

It seems my initial idea of getting a cheap $50 flash bracket's gone out the window. With The pro-RL, quick release plate, and flash mount, it's coming in at around $200, way more than I wanted to spend.


Umm...

My Velbon QR's are $70-90...depending on model, and I have 9 of them...all "permanently" fitted to equipment....Thus my reluctance to buy Strobo versions. Once you start using a QR, you won't want to live without it. They are VERY convenient.

"Sharing" a QR base plate between tripods/monopods, etc is inconvenient, and to a certain extent, nullifies it's utility. As my equipment list grows, so does my QR collection.

The piece that does get interchanged often is the QR plate (vs QR base). I actually have too many plates right now.

If you find yourself removing and reattaching your camera to your tripod and/or monopod frequently, nothing faster than a QR. Screwing is way to slow.

Since I don't envision going back-and-forth between the bracket and no bracket, I don't use one on the camera mount of the RL. If I'm going to use the bracket, it's for the session.

I can't envision NOT using a QR on the bracket-to-tripod connection point.

Since Stroboframe molds for the QR, they can't envision it either...and want you to buy their brand...

[tim]

I don't have a Velbon tripod, I have a cheap "made in china" brand called "Silk" that I got when I first got my camera. It works fine so i'll keep it for now, though I might replace it with a Manfrotto at some point.

I like the look of the Pro-T, a small upgrade from the cheaper 350/35mm one you recommended. My only query is how well they'd work on a tripod. Do they work ok in "portrait" orientation on a tripod?

[tim]

The head on my tripod will rotate 90 degrees, but there's no way what I have will rotate and hold up a bracket, camera, and flash. Maybe for that reason that Pro-RL will be better, at least until I get a better tripod. Alternately, can anyone recommend a suitable tripod and head, I don't mind spending the money to upgrade that.

Forgive my ignorance, but does the bracket get attached on top of the head, or is the head somehow removed and it's attached directly to the frame mount?

I'm a little suprised that the orientation of the flash doesn't really matter, because it's rectangular I would have expected that it would cast a rectangular shadow, which could be visible if you rotate the camera but not the flash.

[robertwgross]

How do people find the flash coverage when the flash is horizontal and the camera's vertical?

That situation is what you should be trying to avoid.

---Bob Gross---

[robertwgross]

My 580EX stand came with a pre-drilled hole in the bottom for screw attachments.

550EX is the same.

The little plastic stand is hidden in the soft pouch, and some users never find it.

---Bob Gross---

[tim]

That situation is what you should be trying to avoid.

That would mean the Pro-RL is pointless, which I find hard to believe, though seems logical looking at the flash. I might have to do some tests to work that one for myself.

550EX is the same. The little plastic stand is hidden in the soft pouch, and some users never find it.

I found it, but I assumed it was just for standing the flash on a flat surface. That is, unless there's a 2nd piece of plastic i've not found yet.

[robertwgross]

It seems my initial idea of getting a cheap $50 flash bracket's gone out the window.

Mine cost me about $55 or $60, and I don't need any extra plates or screws.

---Bob Gross---

[Todd Jacobsen]

The head on my tripod will rotate 90 degrees, but there's no way what I have will rotate and hold up a bracket, camera, and flash. Maybe for that reason that Pro-RL will be better, at least until I get a better tripod. Alternately, can anyone recommend a suitable tripod and head, I don't mind spending the money to upgrade that.

Forgive my ignorance, but does the bracket get attached on top of the head, or is the head somehow removed and it's attached directly to the frame mount?

I'm a little suprised that the orientation of the flash doesn't really matter, because it's rectangular I would have expected that it would cast a rectangular shadow, which could be visible if you rotate the camera but not the flash.

Tim,

Utilizing your tripod with it's head at 90 degrees, and your bracket attached, will more than likely cause your tripod to tip over. The tripod would not be supporting the weight from the center.

A secondary benefit of having the flash vertical over the camera (whether or not the camera is in portait or horizontal), is that is allows for the shadow to fall slightly lower than the view line, which would be BEHIND the people your are shooting. Most of the shadow is hidden by the subject.

With the flash parallel to the lens line (by rotating the bracket with flash/camera fixed), you will induce more viewable shadows. These shadows will fall on facial features (particularly the nose), as well as other subjects in the portrait.

[robertwgross]

I found it, but I assumed it was just for standing the flash on a flat surface.

Yes, the stand will allow the flash to stand on a flat surface. Also, there is a threaded hole on the underside, and that will go onto a standard tripod screw.

I've never heard of a tripod brand called Silk. How about Slik?

---Bob Gross---

[tim]

Todd, I know about the reasons to use a flash bracket (reducing side shadow and red eye), i'm mainly asking about the practical side of things with specific flash brackets with my current gear. I want something that will work on my rather lightweight tripod and also hand held. Anything that relies on my tripod head being at 90 degrees just won't work - but then comes the question of "how often do you really need to do that?"

I don't think i'm any closer to finding a single bracket that will do everything I want than when I started looking, despite the generous amount of help given here, more notably by Todd, Bloo Dog, and Bob. I've spent way more time thinking about and researching this than I thought it'd take.

Bob, you're quite right, it's a Slik U8000 (http://www.thkphoto.com/products/slik/slik-10.html) IIRC. I read things in a hurry some times, especially unimportant things like tripod brand names.

[tim]

If the camera rotates and the flash stays still (ie Pro-RL bracket) you don't need to tilt the tripod head 90 degrees, you just rotate the camera and the bracket/tripod stay still. With a flippy bracket like the 35mm/350 or Pro-T, you would need to tilt/flip it. There's no way my tripod could support all that rotated 90 degrees, so i'd either have to stay in portrait mode and crop it or hand hold.

It sounds like I need to decide when i'm going to use a bracket on a tripod in portrait mode, and how important that is compared with the advantages of a flipping bracket. The Pro-RL sounds good for everything, but has the downside of being a little heavy, and according to my experiments there is a little light falloff at the edges when the camera's rotated. The Pro-T and other flippy brackets sound like they're nice and light, and the camera/flash orientation always match, but they sound almost useless when they're in portrait mode on a tripod. I have a thread in "cornering the pros" to gather information about practical tripod use at weddings, with that I should have enough information to make the decision myself.

You may have noticed, I do like to think through things, perhaps more than I should, but by the time I make a decision I have a pretty good idea of that what's, why's, and how's of what i'm doing! I really appreciate the time and effort everyone's gone to to educate me, and if anyone has more comments or suggestions i'm happy to hear them :)

[tim]

I just put my camera and flash on the tripod and stuck the tripod head at 90 degrees, and it handled the weight no problem, rock solid. I have to guess that if I use a flippy bracket that will change the weight distribution toward being more stable, because of the way the forces work - I forget the name for it but it's to do with what distance the weight is from the centre of rotation - university was a while ago and I forget the names but remember the concepts.

I think after that experiment a flippy bracket of some kind will be a good lightweight choice for me, and i'll stop bugging everyone about this stuff ;)

[Wazza]

First time I've read this thread, and good luck Tim. A very challenging first time. Like myself, I've also been asked if I'm maybe available for a couple of weddings. One is many months away, and the other is three years. Flash photography, with any special rig is my weakness, and I would love to know how you get on, and and tips on what NOT to do. :D

Perhaps if you get one of these setups, practice a bit with your girlfriend, and maybe objects over a 5 metre width range, simulating trying to get full coverage for a whole family shot. I know I've shot some before, and only the person that was exposed and focused for has perfect coverage, but everyone else, just 12" behind, is dull and not so exciting.

Planning is more important that the big day itself. And lots of practice. Everyone is a first time wedding photographer at some stage, and it's your turn now. Keep reading, and I'm sure someone smart like you will do a fine first time job with limited equipment. :)

[tim]

Cheers guys. I think i'm getting closer to being ready, which is good, and the confidence is going up, but I realise i'm new to this so i'll be doing my research and reading. I will be practicing as much as I can before then, the theatre stuff i'm doing is excellent practice for low light work.

I'm still tempted to get myself a 70-200 F2.8L IS lens, the only reason i'm holding off is that i'm not sure it'll be very useful at the wedding. It would let me stay out of the way so as not to spoil the ceremony and reception for everyone, which I would prefer, but I could manage with my 28-75 if I needed to. Plus I WANT ONE! Damn gear lust.

[Claire]

Omg, I've followed this whole thread and it scared me off wedding photography more than Bloo Dog's threads! All the technical aspects mentioned here have my head spinning. :s

Good luck Tim! How many more weeks before the wedding is it now? And I'm sure you'll do fine. :) I'm doing my first one in two weeks. Yikes! Off to go and try the bridesmaid top now. With a bit of luck the seamstress has loosened it enough for me to breath and sit in... LMAO

[tim]

It's 5 weeks until the wedding i'm doing Claire. You're a bridesmaid and the photographer? Good luck! that's not a task i'd take on.

I think perhaps this thread is a good warning to the newbie doing wedding photos, at least in that there's a bunch of factors to consider. I hope i've at least identified and considered most of the major factors. LIke i've said before, i'll not fail due to lack of preparation. 3 books should arrive from amazon soon, and i'm starting my trial/experimental shoots soon too, to simulate what I expect from a wedding party, so as to be more prepared.

[Claire]

Tim,
I'm sure you'll do fine at the wedding. I know you want to do a great job, but don't forget to breath in-between and try to relax too. :)

And I sure wouldn't be stupid enough to be bothe bridesmaid AND the photographer! lol There is one PJ photographer that's been hired. I'm just aiming to steal shots here and there, plus the stuff he'n not around for. Hoping to get at least some decent shots.

[cricket]

Hi Tim, and congratulations on your upcoming wedding shoot!

I think the flash section has been discussed pretty well. How about natural light? I think it may be a good idea to consider a quality reflector for natural light portraits. Like posing the Bride and Groom by a window and bouncing the light back into their faces. This quality of light is beautiful!

Also, posing them outdoors in the shade and using your flash. Consider the shutter speed when doing this, as it will determine how rich the background colors/densities will be.

I maintain that your attitude is by far the most important factor in photographing a wedding. If you are stressed, they will know it, and it may be harder to help THEM relax. You seem very capable, and caring of how their photos turn out. If you can keep that attitude, and a keen sense of the timing and what poses are left to be shot, I think you will do very well!

Wedding photography is not for every photographer. It is stressful and at times harrowing. However, you need to start somewhere! Shoot this wedding and do a realistic critique of your work and you will learn from that. I remember my first solo attempt, and I shudder now when I look back on it! But I have learned so much, and feel like I have earned my wings, so to say, in this field.

I think you will do fine!!!

[tim]

Thanks Cricket. I'm going to be doing some experimentation with different lighting in the next couple of weeks, i'll try with reflectors and I do like natural light, though i'm not sure if the bride wants ANY posed photos at all. I'll try and convince her to do some, otherwise she may regret it later.

The main problem i'm having is the bride - she doesn't seem to care about the photos at all. They said they're quite relaxed about the whole wedding, and just want a big party for their friends, but I think they're just too relaxed.

I think she expects me to turn up on the day and take photos, with no prior planning at all. While she did tell me the date and location, I asked for her to put it in writing and email it to me about 10 days ago, and she still hasn't bothered. At this point i'm considering turning it down, even though I really want to do it, or at least calling her and telling her if they don't meet me to arrange the details i'll not do it.

5 weeks to go, and I don't even know where the wedding is.

[timnosenzo]

So, I was searching for some info tonight in anticipation of a wedding I'm shooting tomorrow and I came across this thread. Just thought is was cool to see asking for tips about shooting his first wedding, and now 4.5 years later he's a kick ass wedding photographer and helps out so many other folks. It's encouraging for people like me just getting their feet wet. :)

Hope you don't mind me kicking up an old thread!

[booboo]

holy thread revival!!!

Hey at least Tim S. is going thru the treads and reading it!!!

[tim]

I'd forgotten the thread even existed! I suck less than I used to ;)

[jptsr1]

I'd forgotten the thread even existed! I suck less than I used to ;)

LOTS LESS!!!

[zelseman]

Wow this is crazy to see. I had to double check the username, then I saw the date. That really is an awesome example of progress.