How's this? (Moon shot)

[Snydremark]

Hi All,

I just recently picked up my first DSLR (Canon 40D) back in December. This is one of the first decent moon shots I have managed to catch, but I'm curious to see if any of the more experienced artists here have any suggestions on how I might improve; either in original capture or in PP.

Image info:
Canon 40D
Tamron 18-270mm @ 270mm
Aperture: f/6.3
ISO: 200
Tripod
Adjusted contrast, brightness and some sharpening in Lightroom
Fairly large crop at the end

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3348/3334209611_18244cb5cb_o.jpg

I look forward to your feedback :)

-E

[DerekSimon]

So it really is made of cheese...i knew it! Really clear shot in my opinion and the color is accurate. Good shot.

[JuiceBox]

It's very soft. Focusing on the moon is ridiculously hard. In my experience, it's almost always guesswork. Just remember to use manual focus, and try try again to get that focus right.

[Snydremark]

It's very soft.


Yeah. I'm wondering whether I can do much better with that lens, though. I was using Live View and manual focus to get it that far. I don't know whether I'm running up against the glass in this lens or something wonky with my eyesight. :p

[samanan]

I have a similar set up as yours, except that I have a Tamron 70-300. And I've been trying to photograph the moon for some time like you ;-))) And my results are very similar to yours.

I don't like that the results are very soft. I did get slightly better results when I photographed the moon at dusk and when I reduced the shutter speed. I'll give JuiceBox's idea of manual focus a try too.

[JuiceBox]

Definitely use a tripod as well if you're not already. Just take as many shots as you can with slightly different focal points, and see what results you get.

Also, never use live view. Viewfinder is so much more accurate.

[ntinlizi]

wow, i wish i could get a moon shot like this! im still working on it not turnign out so dark! let alone the fact that i cant get it near as close as yours (biggest i have is a 55-250mm) id say you've got a great photo here that needs nothing fixed! thanks for sharing

[LostShootingStar]

The composition and size of the moon is great. If it wasn't so soft, it would be perfect. http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/2465/o09a0208gstn/POTNsmile.gif
http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3218/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif
http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3200/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif

[ntinlizi]

The composition and size of the moon is great. If it wasn't so soft, it would be perfect. http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/2465/o09a0208gstn/POTNsmile.gif
http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3218/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif
http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3200/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif
could try sharpening it!

[JuiceBox]

Trying to use a post-processing technique to get that shot up to par with a properly focused shot won't work; it will just come out FUBAR'd.

[Snydremark]

Also, never use live view. Viewfinder is so much more accurate.

I don't disagree with the assertion here, but when shooting stuff far away it's nearly impossible for me to see whether my actual subject is in focus without the magnification feature in LV...:(

I'm definitely using a tripod for this...The way MY hands shake, it would look like vanilla pudding if I tried to hand-hold this shot :p

I'll give the multiple shots w/ multiple focal points a try though, thanks!

And thanks everyone else for the comments/info, as well.

-E

[canonnoob]

do you have the unedited original that you would be willing to email me so i can try and get something out of it?

[Snydremark]

do you have the unedited original that you would be willing to email me so i can try and get something out of it?

I do, but not with me at the moment. I'll dig it out later tonight, once I'm home. I'll be curious to see what you come up with. :cool:

[Dusty]

Both the focus and WB is off a bit.
Try using "Daylight" WB instead of AWB (if that's what you used).
Also use a tripod and focus using LiveView at 10x.
Use mirror lockup as well and also lower your ISO to 100.

[Dusty]

BTW, if I have your permission I could post an edited version of your shot and explain some techniques I used on it to improve the look.

[Snydremark]

BTW, if I have your permission I could post an edited version of your shot and explain some techniques I used on it to improve the look.

Yes, please; I'd be curious to see what you did.

[Dusty]

Yes, please; I'd be curious to see what you did.
Great thanks.
This is working off the net copy of your image so the quality will be lower than working from the original.

First I adjusted the WB, picking an area that was close to 18% grey and adjusting the levels.
Also adjusted the Shadow/Highlights slightly to improve contrast and applied a slight 'S' curve in the Curves adjustment.
Finally I applied a small amount of noise reduction and a little sharpening to finish off and cropped to meet the forum posting standard.

:)

[Snydremark]

Damn...now I really DO feel like an amateur :) That's a major improvement there, Dusty. Thanks!

Could you email me the non-cropped edit so I can keep for comparison?

Thanks!
-E

[Johnsoir]

Also, never use live view. Viewfinder is so much more accurate.

I'm going to disagree with this. With the ability to magnify 10x I have focused to the very center cap of a steering wheel on a 1/24 scale model car. Through the view finder, it was incredibly difficult to judge the difference of a millimeter to get perfect focus.

I believe in the case of the moon it may also help.

In every other aspect though the viewfinder is much MUCH better.

[Damian75]

Shutter speed is too slow you may have some motion blur here is a quick guide I found on shooting the moon

[masterwillems]

To share a little experience from my side with taking shots at the moon.
The way I did it was very boring, I installed the Camera software on my laptop, went outside, put my camera on my tri-pod and connected my camera to my laptop.

Using the laptop I took some pictures, and by changing the sharpness through the laptop (have to set the lens to AF) I made some pictures, although it stay's hard to get a nice sharp moon.

[chauncey]

Boring is good, nothing wrong with boring, especially if it coughs out a good image.
Shooting live view gets the mirror out of the way, less slap and vibrarion.

PS, I like dusty's PP

[ijetmx]

Snydremark: Nice shot !

Dusty: Great PP. This is something I would like to venture into trying when the wx gets warmer. I tried it once but did not have good results at all. Thanks for all the good tips. The only lens I have with reach (up to 300mm) is a POS. Hopefully I can pull something out with it.


The way I did it was very boring, I installed the Camera software on my laptop, went outside, put my camera on my tri-pod and connected my camera to my laptop.
Using the laptop I took some pictures, and by changing the sharpness.

-This is an interesting idea. I could do this with the camera on the tripod on the ground and I can sit on the deck with the computer and a summer time beverage :D

[Snydremark]

I installed the Camera software on my laptop, went outside, put my camera on my tri-pod and connected my camera to my laptop.


This is one of the reasons I'd really like to get a laptop to tether to, but I just haven't been able to find specs I'm happy with yet. But, it's a good idea; I wouldn't say boring. :)

[USER876]

I don't understand the focus comments, wouldn't the lens just be focused all the way out to infinity?

[canonnoob]

with permission this is my take on it...

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu60/DavidWelkerPhotography/Moon_example-Edit.jpg

[masterwillems]

I don't understand the focus comments, wouldn't the lens just be focused all the way out to infinity?

Not quiet, because the moon is not a "infinity" away.
When i was shooting with my laptop, I found out that giving it 3 clicks back was much more sharper then infinity.

[Snydremark]

So, Canonnoob and Dusty, how are you picking the white balance out to set that better? I haven't been able to figure out how to do that properly so far...

[Dusty]

Damn...now I really DO feel like an amateur :) That's a major improvement there, Dusty. Thanks!

Could you email me the non-cropped edit so I can keep for comparison?

Thanks!
-E
Cheers.
I've just emailed you the larger copy and below I will post here the steps taken so everyone can have a look.

I don't understand the focus comments, wouldn't the lens just be focused all the way out to infinity?
Lenses are sometimes not actually 'at' infinity even though you focus on the infinity mark.
Temperature can shift a lens' 'infinity' focus enough to cause problems.
The best way to focus on the moon is to set the camera manually so that the moon looks dim and use LiveView at 10x to get an acurate focus setting, focus so that the craters away from the middle of the moon are sharp.
Make sure you have AF off BTW.
Then reset your exposure to what you will use for the shot and take the shot.
Always use a tripod, mirror lockup, daylight WB, and low ISO.

So, Canonnoob and Dusty, how are you picking the white balance out to set that better? I haven't been able to figure out how to do that properly so far...

OK so in PS you can go to Curves and select the midpoint (grey) eyedropper and then click on a grey area of the moon that closely resemples 18% grey.
You can also click the Black point eyedropper and click on the black sky around the moon to set the Black point as well.
Press OK to apply the settings.

Then in Shadow/Highlight adjust your Shadows sliders so that the highlights are not blown out (correct exposure in the first place will help a lot).
You can also adjust the colour using the Colour Correction slider.
Apply settings.

Back to Curves and here I apply an 'S' curve to bring out a little more contrast.
Click a point along the diagonal in the lower section and drag it down slightly.
Click a point along the diagonal in the upper section and drag it up slighly.
Try keeping the mid point in the centre.
This gives you an 'S' curve.
Click OK to apply when you're happy with the look.
(you can also apply the reverse 'S' curve if you want a different look in contrast.

I apply a very small amount of Noise reduction and then a slight Sharpen and that's it.

:)

[Snydremark]

This is really awesome info, Dusty. Thanks a lot!

So, I'm currently only using Lightroom which doesn't appear to have that level of control for Curves, nor the eyedropper for grey...btw, how do you know what resembles 18% grey? What IS 18%? :| That is one that has just had me stumped.

I think I can muddle through a solution in Lightroom for figuring out the curves, but what sort of sharpening and NR settings do you use?

[Duncan Frenz]

Wow! Dusty, you really have inspired me. Great pp, especially using the net version. Simply, incredible.

OP - I am going to be trying moon shots too. I only hope to have 1/10 of your success. Good stuff and keep trying!

[canonnoob]

This is really awesome info, Dusty. Thanks a lot!

So, I'm currently only using Lightroom which doesn't appear to have that level of control for Curves, nor the eyedropper for grey...btw, how do you know what resembles 18% grey? What IS 18%? :| That is one that has just had me stumped.

I think I can muddle through a solution in Lightroom for figuring out the curves, but what sort of sharpening and NR settings do you use?

It does have all of that.. Let me get on my computer later and I will work you thought it alright?

[Snydremark]

Canonbob, that would be fantastic! I should be around most of the day and evening since they're renovating our offices today :s

[Snydremark]

Ok, so I went back to Lightroom and tracked down the eyedropper, used it to find the base gray level and then tweaked WB a little bit to make it a "little" less harsh white. Adjusted tone curves a bit and added some trial/error sharpening and NR at the end. Thanks again to canonbob and Dusty for some great tips!

Final result:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3352949564_88eb8d247e_b.jpg

[Sean Silas]

Ok, so I went back to Lightroom and tracked down the eyedropper, used it to find the base gray level and then tweaked WB a little bit to make it a "little" less harsh white. Adjusted tone curves a bit and added some trial/error sharpening and NR at the end. Thanks again to canonbob and Dusty for some great tips!

Final result:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3352949564_88eb8d247e_b.jpg

awesome!

That is what I am trying to accomplish.

[Sean Silas]

Cheers.
I've just emailed you the larger copy and below I will post here the steps taken so everyone can have a look.


Lenses are sometimes not actually 'at' infinity even though you focus on the infinity mark.
Temperature can shift a lens' 'infinity' focus enough to cause problems.
The best way to focus on the moon is to set the camera manually so that the moon looks dim and use LiveView at 10x to get an acurate focus setting, focus so that the craters away from the middle of the moon are sharp.
Make sure you have AF off BTW.
Then reset your exposure to what you will use for the shot and take the shot.
Always use a tripod, mirror lockup, daylight WB, and low ISO.



OK so in PS you can go to Curves and select the midpoint (grey) eyedropper and then click on a grey area of the moon that closely resemples 18% grey.
You can also click the Black point eyedropper and click on the black sky around the moon to set the Black point as well.
Press OK to apply the settings.

Then in Shadow/Highlight adjust your Shadows sliders so that the highlights are not blown out (correct exposure in the first place will help a lot).
You can also adjust the colour using the Colour Correction slider.
Apply settings.

Back to Curves and here I apply an 'S' curve to bring out a little more contrast.
Click a point along the diagonal in the lower section and drag it down slightly.
Click a point along the diagonal in the upper section and drag it up slighly.
Try keeping the mid point in the centre.
This gives you an 'S' curve.
Click OK to apply when you're happy with the look.
(you can also apply the reverse 'S' curve if you want a different look in contrast.

I apply a very small amount of Noise reduction and then a slight Sharpen and that's it.

:)

using the xti with tamron 70-300, what setting on the dial are u using? "m" "av" etc. I am new to this.:D:oops:

[Snydremark]

Settings for the original shot were:

Av(Aperture Priority)
ISO 200
270mm (full zoom on my lens)
f/6.3 (max aperture at that range)
1/30 sec shutter speed

Camera on a tripod
Live View enabled
Manual focus using 10x magnification

Once the other adjustments were made, the result was cropped out of the full sized pic.

Best luck on this...that silly moon is a difficult target :cool:

[wardie]

I'm surprised that your moon is not overexposed using 1/30 sec F6.3. Here is a shot I took on Tuesday ISO 100, F11, 1/100sec @800mm. It was slightly underexposed but only by .5 of a stop. With focusing I usually try a shot by focusing clockwise, then refocus for the next shot by focusing anti-clockwise. I also choose a focus point near the edge as there is more definition (texture)

http://www.jmbphotography.com.au/gallery2/d/1455-1/IMG_6454.jpg

Wardie

[Sean Silas]

awesome! thank u Snydremark, this is a quest! :D I will be waking up around 5am california time to try again.:)

[Sean Silas]

i gotta copy and paste this info in word! :P

[Dusty]

This is really awesome info, Dusty. Thanks a lot!

So, I'm currently only using Lightroom which doesn't appear to have that level of control for Curves, nor the eyedropper for grey...btw, how do you know what resembles 18% grey? What IS 18%? :| That is one that has just had me stumped.

I think I can muddle through a solution in Lightroom for figuring out the curves, but what sort of sharpening and NR settings do you use?
Snyde that's a great improvement in your moon shot !
Well done.

Sorry can't help you with Lightroom, haven't ever used it so can't comment but there must be similar commands that will do the same job.

When you adjust your grey (midpoint) what you are looking for is a neutral grey.
This is what your camera looks for in a Custom White Balance shot so that it knows what to set the Temperature to, to give you an accurate WB.
So what you look for is a grey that is as neutral as possible (least amount of colour cast) that you can click on with the mid tone eyedropper, to tell Photoshop that this is what the WB should be set at. (Bit of trial and error sometimes).

As for sharpening and NR I just use the Unsharp Mask in PS and Neat Image Plug in for NR.
Make sure you don't overdo either as it will be very evident in the final image especially with NR since it will give the image a very "Plastic" look.
Remember our eyes 'like' to see some 'noise' in an image or else it looks very un-natural.


Wow! Dusty, you really have inspired me. Great pp, especially using the net version. Simply, incredible.

Cheers Duncan !

using the xti with tamron 70-300, what setting on the dial are u using? "m" "av" etc. I am new to this.:D:oops:
Sean, I always use 'manual' mode for all my astro work and shoot in RAW.


I'm surprised that your moon is not overexposed using 1/30 sec F6.3. Here is a shot I took on Tuesday ISO 100, F11, 1/100sec @800mm. It was slightly underexposed but only by .5 of a stop.

Wardie
Wardie in your shot the moon was a little bit more full.

[Snydremark]

Dusty, thanks for the help and the comments! I think I could probably pull a little more detail if I increased the darks and contrast a bit, but I really like the slight blue background. :) And yeah, in Lightroom there is a single dropper (or, at least I can't locate multiple ones); so I just look for an 18% midtone with equal or less color casts on it.

Wardie, it may have to do with when I took the original exposure and the lighting conditions at the time? I'm not familiar enough with this yet to be able to say for sure. I'm pulling my "recollection" from the EXIF :p

I REALLY like your shot, by the way! That's a nice one.