Fair market Price for a Nude model.

[Thuringer]

So here is my story, I hope its in the section I am wondering if this should go in "talk".

Any ways I've been getting paid to some of my stuff now; however I am still building my port up. So My question is what is fair market price for a model whom, you know has only one shoot under her belt. She said she wanted 150 dollars an hour. I was like are you Nutz? I was thinking more along the lines of a flat rate for four or six hours. For that price. But really I wanted to pay like 10 dollars an hour due to her inexperience and me having to coach her though every thing. Getting make up right, hair...ect. As always I would love to hear your thoughts.

[HectorsGTI]

fair market price has nothing to do with how much it takes for an individual to be comfortable naked in front of you. I've spent that much before. I've had girls do it for free. Just depends on the model and how bad you want THAT model.

[Thuringer]

Hahah. Well I think there should be a standard. I mean I want to make sure I am paying appropriately. I mean come on! I am only going to get a hundred bucks for the image any ways. So yeah, I try to keep my shoots to around two hours so I can try and maintain a profit. IDK, does any one else have these issues?

[DeluxeMan]

Depending on your social skills and talents, you may not have to paid for a model.

You posting this in G/N, im assuming you want to shoot nudity.
10$/h is really low, you will not be taken seriously.
40$/h is the least for a girl next door who never did it, and no nudity.
also depending on the model, your contract and what kind of project you are shooting.

To build a portefolio, do TFCD works and get your model here:
http://www.modelmayhem.com/

this should go in talk...

[Kagemaru]

She should be paying you..

Tell her your rate is $200 per hour but you'll cut her a deal at $150 and call it even.

There is no reason a model with 1 shoot under her belt, if she's wearing a belt, should be paid anything at all..

[Q-bert]

I don't have any experience with paid photo models,but the models in my college drawing classes posed nude for around $8 hour.

I would imagine it's all relative to the model and what the photog is willing to pay or think they are worth.

[Thuringer]

Thank you Deluxe man,

However I am going to have to say I am hating modelmayhem.com I've had eight flakes to date (I started using the site in November). However I think I don't need to just shoot nudes. But I'll never pay for any other kind of modeling. Any ways thank you for the impute I'll keep that in mind.

[cdifoto]

So here is my story, I hope its in the section I am wondering if this should go in "talk".

Any ways I've been getting paid to some of my stuff now; however I am still building my port up. So My question is what is fair market price for a model whom, you know has only one shoot under her belt. She said she wanted 150 dollars an hour. I was like are you Nutz? I was thinking more along the lines of a flat rate for four or six hours. For that price. But really I wanted to pay like 10 dollars an hour due to her inexperience and me having to coach her though every thing. Getting make up right, hair...ect. As always I would love to hear your thoughts.
Why should she bear everything to you for 10 bucks an hour when she could work at a warehouse for the same or more?

[Thuringer]

I don't have any experience with paid photo models,but the models in my college drawing classes posed nude for around $8 hour.

I would imagine it's all relative to the model and what the photog is willing to pay or think they are worth.

Oh yeah....at the University of Idaho the Nude Models for the art class get paid 11 bucks an hour. I totally forgot about that; however they take all kinds in there.

T

[rooftopsuicideclub]

She should be paying you..

Tell her your rate is $200 per hour but you'll cut her a deal at $150 and call it even.

There is no reason a model with 1 shoot under her belt, if she's wearing a belt, should be paid anything at all..

this is actually my SOP.
but i'll do a shoot for $100. i will never pay for a model.
ever.

[Thuringer]

Cuz working at a warehouse is a lot harder than smiling. Also I am in North Idaho, our big city is Spokane. Most people make 7.50 an hour out here, guess I should have said that.

[cdifoto]

Cuz working at a warehouse is a lot harder than smiling.
You think modeling is just smiling? Fine then. I guess photography is just clicking a button. ;)

[rooftopsuicideclub]

You think modeling is just smiling? Fine then. Photography is just clicking a button. ;)

wait wait wait...you mean those knobs and buttons on the back actually do stuff?

[Thuringer]

Well, I know modeling is a form of acting. But really it helps it one can smile. And what buttons are you talking about? I shoot with and SD1000.

[rooftopsuicideclub]

Well, I know modeling is a form of acting. But really it helps it one can smile. And what buttons are you talking about? I shoot with and SD1000.

*looks around nervously*
heh heh...good one...

you're kidding, right?
:(

[Thuringer]

*looks around nervously*
heh heh...good one...

you're kidding, right?
:(

Who says you need to have a big ole fancy camera? My all time favorite camera is a shoe box I made.

However my digital work pony is a 20 D.

[Zansho]

There's something to be said for having the proper tools to do the job you have in front of you. Yes, the SD1000 might be just fine for snapshot or maybe a couple of situations where you can't bring in your DSLR, but honestly, you expect models to take you seriously when you shoot with that thing?

The 20D is much better choice for this kind of work. Having the proper lighting and lenses (and the know how to use them) will go a long way in helping you get the portfolio to attract the models to your business. Nobody will hire you till they can see what you can do - TFCD sounds like the best way to go.

[Kagemaru]

*looks around nervously*
heh heh...good one...

you're kidding, right?
:(

LOL!bw!

[dsmPhotoCompany]

Certainly an entertaining thread.

I personally have not yet paid a model and I don't plan on doing so in the future. If one of the top 100 models walked into my studio, I reserve the right to change my mind. :)

You think modeling is just smiling? Fine then. I guess photography is just clicking a button.

I'm not a photographer, I just click a lot.

[tfiorda]

My experience with paying for models is this. Most throw out a price to separate the wheat from the chaffe. (Real photogs from GWC's.) Then you begin negotiations, and come to something that is beneficial for both parties.

If I am only doing portofolio work, I'll push for TF* and then shoot something that will benefit both the model's and my portfolio. (Not all models understand that for each hour behind the camera a photog spends, there is around an hour or more additional time necessary to plan, choose and edit the images.) If it's the model wanting to shoot, I'll start with my pricing and then negotiate from there. Sometimes I'll do TF* in this case, if again, it will benefit both ports, otherwise I expect to be paid for my expertise and efforts.

If I need specific shots or am going to use the shots in my promotion or advertising for a product I am selling, I have no problem paying a model, nude or otherwise, because it's a legitimate business expense and she is performing, if you'll excuse the term, 'a service' for my studio.

If I am shooting for a commercial client and need models, you'd better believe both of us will be getting paid or there is no shoot.

As far as fair market pricing, it is just that, fair market pricing. It's different for each model. I've paid anywhere from $50.00 for 3+ hours to $250.00 for the same time. It depends on the experience of the model, his/her suitability to the image being created, the project (personal or business), and if they are someone that you just have to shoot.

So in my mind there is not correct answer, but it's what you, your model and your market will accept. For the OP question, I would shoot the new model clothed first and get her comfortable with how you work, your professionalism and your results. Build a professional relationship first and she will more likely be amenable to shooting sans clothing. I shoot a model that will not take her clothes off for any other photog except me. It make me feel great that I've developed that trust with her and her with me, and believe it or not this has brought other ladies in to my studio who may otherwise have not come in.

Build her confidence first and then move on to the next steps.

Tony...

[DeluxeMan]

Thank you Deluxe man,
I've had eight flakes to date (I started using the site in November).

Thats depend on where you live, I never had a cancellation in Montreal or London.
But, I had 9 in a row in Vancouver when I got here. But now they always show up, dont know why!

[charlesu]

Is a 10 ounce steak worth $35?

A flank steak the grocery store, probably not. How about filet at Ruth's Chris or Mortons? Hopefully that makes part of my point.

The second issue at hand is the negotiation. Let's say that the market will bear $60 to $75 per hour for a given nude model for most nude modeling assignments. That doesn't mean a model will take every nude assignment for that price. She might decide that it's worth something to her to have promo usage rights to some pictures. So maybe she does the shoot for $50 per hour. Or maybe your work really sucks, she won't get anything but $$ out of the shoot and she wants $100 per hour. Everything is up for grabs.

And, don't forget travel costs and food. Some models, smart ones anyway, will negotiate the shoot and the expenses separately. However, the really smart ones have figured out how to maximize their revenue.

Ones quoting $150 per hour are either at the top of the industry, or don't really want the work to begin with, or are novices and have an overly inflated idea of their worth.

In fact, what often happens with new models is they do a little nude work with some 'goober' who is so wowed at seeing a pretty, nekkid girl that he pumps up her ego telling her how she should charge some ridiculous fee. Lately, I've been hearing $150 per hour from such scenarios. Then the girl gets no work. 6 weeks later she is ready to quit. Cant tell you how many times I have heard this scenario from new models who were about to throw in the towel.

Bottom line, make a fair offer. One that you can live with but that doesn't shortchange the model. And throw in some icing. I usually offer lunch and I supply snacks and drinks during the shoot.

Being nice, acting thoughtfully and professionally and getting good images keeps good models working and keeps them coming back.

[Stickman]

She should be paying you..

Tell her your rate is $200 per hour but you'll cut her a deal at $150 and call it even.




Spoken like a professional.

There is a mindset, and nudes are no different than anything else. If you have to beg, you won't be taken seriously.

[mr_goodbomb]

I saw this thread and just felt to need to respond. I'm a videographer and filmmaker, and I noticed the few responses about "never paying for models, ever." Modeling is a profession, like anything else. If you work out a deal with a model or acting talent to where they feel comfortable being unpaid for their work, that's great. I've never paid for an actor (short of an old B-movie king for a day rate once), but acting is a bit different. Amateur actors need experience and a reel in order to get future work. Those first 5 or 10 projects go towards building that resume and are generally unpaid. They're being paid in the screentime they get out of it, and if they make nice with the editor, perhaps a reel. But models are different, and nudes are even further from that. If you're unwilling to pay for nudes when someone expects payment, you shouldn't be getting nude models, period. Someone is exposing themselves, not just to you but to everyone who will see that work, and if they wish to be paid for it that should be respected. The vehement attitude some seem to have about paying professionals for their work is pathetic, and really rather childish.

I'd love to see the tempertantrum a photographer would throw after discussing a job down to the details and then being told, "oh, I don't pay for anything, in fact, feel lucky I'm not asking you to pay me." I guess I shouldn't expect much from the internet, but it's still a little sickening.

[Rainyday]

bw!I saw this thread and just felt to need to respond. I'm a videographer and filmmaker, and I noticed the few responses about "never paying for models, ever." Modeling is a profession, like anything else. If you work out a deal with a model or acting talent to where they feel comfortable being unpaid for their work, that's great. I've never paid for an actor (short of an old B-movie king for a day rate once), but acting is a bit different. Amateur actors need experience and a reel in order to get future work. Those first 5 or 10 projects go towards building that resume and are generally unpaid. They're being paid in the screentime they get out of it, and if they make nice with the editor, perhaps a reel. But models are different, and nudes are even further from that. If you're unwilling to pay for nudes when someone expects payment, you shouldn't be getting nude models, period. Someone is exposing themselves, not just to you but to everyone who will see that work, and if they wish to be paid for it that should be respected. The vehement attitude some seem to have about paying professionals for their work is pathetic, and really rather childish.

I'd love to see the tempertantrum a photographer would throw after discussing a job down to the details and then being told, "oh, I don't pay for anything, in fact, feel lucky I'm not asking you to pay me." I guess I shouldn't expect much from the internet, but it's still a little sickening.
bw!

[dsmPhotoCompany]

I saw this thread and just felt to need to respond. I'm a videographer and filmmaker, and I noticed the few responses about "never paying for models, ever." Modeling is a profession, like anything else. If you work out a deal with a model or acting talent to where they feel comfortable being unpaid for their work, that's great. I've never paid for an actor (short of an old B-movie king for a day rate once), but acting is a bit different. Amateur actors need experience and a reel in order to get future work. Those first 5 or 10 projects go towards building that resume and are generally unpaid. They're being paid in the screentime they get out of it, and if they make nice with the editor, perhaps a reel. But models are different, and nudes are even further from that. If you're unwilling to pay for nudes when someone expects payment, you shouldn't be getting nude models, period. Someone is exposing themselves, not just to you but to everyone who will see that work, and if they wish to be paid for it that should be respected. The vehement attitude some seem to have about paying professionals for their work is pathetic, and really rather childish.

I'd love to see the tempertantrum a photographer would throw after discussing a job down to the details and then being told, "oh, I don't pay for anything, in fact, feel lucky I'm not asking you to pay me." I guess I shouldn't expect much from the internet, but it's still a little sickening.

Models deserve to get paid, just not by our studio. We pay models when a client pays us to use them - or the client pays them directly. Or when we use the models for our workshops.

That's it.

[mr_goodbomb]

Models deserve to get paid, just not by our studio. We pay models when a client pays us to use them - or the client pays them directly. Or when we use the models for our workshops.

That's it.

You're speaking of a situation with which a middle party exists who should be paying talent. That isn't always the situation, and judging from many of these comments, isn't the situation that many here are speaking from.

[dsmPhotoCompany]

You're speaking of a situation with which a middle party exists who should be paying talent. That isn't always the situation, and judging from many of these comments, isn't the situation that many here are speaking from.

I don't glean a lot from here simply based on the fact many are hobbyist. Why there is nothing wrong with the hobbyist photographer - it is a different animal.

We operate a profitable portrait studio. Therefore we do not need (at this point) to pay models. When we need models, they are paid via a client or by us for a workshop. Otherwise the model is paying our studio to create his/her portfolio. In very rare cases, we shoot TF*.

If a photographer is building their portfolio or shooting for stock, these are good instances of paying a model.

[mr_goodbomb]

I don't glean a lot from here simply based on the fact many are hobbyist. Why there is nothing wrong with the hobbyist photographer - it is a different animal.

We operate a profitable portrait studio. Therefore we do not need (at this point) to pay models. When we need models, they are paid via a client or by us for a workshop. Otherwise the model is paying our studio to create his/her portfolio. In very rare cases, we shoot TF*.

If a photographer is building their portfolio or shooting for stock, these are good instances of paying a model.

Again, I appreciate your stance, but I could almost cut and paste my previous post as a response to this one and it'd say the same thing that needs to be said in response to this one.

[Mark1]

A few here are in a position where they don't need to pay, They have a port fully stocked and a sucessful buisness. They simply have no reason to "hire" a model other than for an actual job. But most here are not in that position. Many shoot for fun, or are just begining to turn it into a business and do not have the back log of clientel for support yet. So after you shoot everybody in your family... the next step is models. And if you are self-assigning jobs, there is no client that is paying, so at times when you find a face you want in your port, there is no choice but to pay if she/he will not shoot for free/trade.

Personally I have no problem paying models. That fact alone can make them want to work with me again, Possibly more so than that other guy that does not pay. I may not pay much at times, sometimes its not much more than a tip. but it is allways something. Enough for a nice dinner on the way home if nothing else. If is is for a paying job they get full pay, put personal work thay still get a lil something. Models talk just as photographers talk. And you really dont want the reputation of taking advantage of models or being too cheap to pay. In that sense it could be a bad business decision to save the money by not paying models.

[kfyount]

I saw this thread and just felt to need to respond. I'm a videographer and filmmaker, and I noticed the few responses about "never paying for models, ever." Modeling is a profession, like anything else. If you work out a deal with a model or acting talent to where they feel comfortable being unpaid for their work, that's great. I've never paid for an actor (short of an old B-movie king for a day rate once), but acting is a bit different. Amateur actors need experience and a reel in order to get future work. Those first 5 or 10 projects go towards building that resume and are generally unpaid. They're being paid in the screentime they get out of it, and if they make nice with the editor, perhaps a reel. But models are different, and nudes are even further from that. If you're unwilling to pay for nudes when someone expects payment, you shouldn't be getting nude models, period. Someone is exposing themselves, not just to you but to everyone who will see that work, and if they wish to be paid for it that should be respected. The vehement attitude some seem to have about paying professionals for their work is pathetic, and really rather childish.

I'd love to see the tempertantrum a photographer would throw after discussing a job down to the details and then being told, "oh, I don't pay for anything, in fact, feel lucky I'm not asking you to pay me." I guess I shouldn't expect much from the internet, but it's still a little sickening.


I think the real issue here is that some (OP included are talking about aspiring professional (if even that) models. You are exactly right - IF - the model is a professional and has professional abilities. But the OP was talking about a model with only one shoot as her experience. The free work that you describe for the actors wanting to build a reel is exactly what many (if not all) of the posters are saying.

This whole topic is really complex - the mix here can be newbe photographers (like me) to professional with lots of experience and reputation, it can also be brand new unexperienced models to established, experienced professional models. I get the feeling some of all of the possibilities were being considered in this thread so far. It's been all good information - we just have to remember to sort it out and consider it in light of who gives it and their situation compared to ours.

[ZachOly]

So bottom line, I'm a noob building my port & the model(s) is a noob building his/her port.

Should both work together for free?

[DisrupTer911]

It's not free, your trading services to each other. Modeling for portfolio additions.

[kfreels]

The question in my mind is whether or not she plans to do more modeling in the future. If so, she needs a portfolio too. So if she wants $150 per hour, fine. But if the wants any prints at all, she needs to pay you your standard rate for the prints and for the shoot.

What I used to do was seek out models looking to build their own portfolio and simply offer a deal of prints for time.

[josh5k]

I believe that's pretty much the way TFP/TFCD works. If a model wants her portfolio created, then she/he has to pay. If I want a model for a personal or commercial assignment of mine I pay the model. If we are both shooting because we are highly interested in creating that particular look for our port we do each others work together and end up with the images we want.