Dell or Mac

[DRTHAY]

Ok I dont want to turn this into a PC vs Mac war I just need some help deciding on what would be better for me. I am looking for a small laptop and I think I am between the Dell XPS 13 and the Macbook unibody 2.4. They are both equally equipped, but the dell is about $550 cheaper. Can anyone give me any input on which one would have the best screen for light photo editing as well as over all performance. Thank you in advance

[stevo8]

Pluses to the mac are, build quality, and the OS.. Those imo easily justify the price difference. To others it might not. For me to open a computer up and be using it like I have owned it for years within an hour is also worth extra coin to me.. No trial memberships, garbage programs that are completely useless, having to buy anti virus stuff, maintaining it so it doesnt suffer later etc etc. The new ilife is cool, time machine is awesome, apples customer service is FAR superior to Dells imo(I own three Dells also).... BUT it all does come at a price.

[Woodja]

I also think you'll be better off with the macbook. With the new unibody updates they're almost as powerful as Macbook Pros. Not that I think you'll have any issues but I am in love with applecare it's great to know that if ANYTHING goes wrong with the machine it's covered. If you go that route i highly recommend buying the 3 yr coverage. Hope this helps

[NeverFollow]

Mac and not just for the editing but for the reliability and ease of use. I switched to mac a couple of years ago and will never no back to a pc.

[jhkphoto]

the Mac will probibly last you longer and.... i like the operating system a lot better

[stevo8]

Snow leopard is also coming shortly which is rumored to be great. On the note of apple care, another option is to buy a used white MacBook with AppleCare on it still and give it a shot. I have seen them for around $650-$700, in which case if to end up loving the OS and want to upgrade you won't loose anything on it.

[MaxxuM]

Another vote for a Mac for all the reasons stated above plus it holds it's value much longer than PCs and the OS is much cleaner. Also, if you plan on going all Apple with Aperture, buy from Amazon, it'll save you some cash.

[wlescall]

Keep an eye out at the Apple store for refurbished models. I just checked and there is a white MacBook 2.1GHz/120 HB HDD/1 GB RAM/Intel GMA X3100 for $849 and an aluminum MacBook 2.0GHZ/160 GB HDD/2 GB RAM/nVidia GeForce 9400m for $1099.
The deals change constantly. It is where I picked up my MacBook Pro. :D

[picturecrazy]

I'd get a Lenovo Thinkpad T series. Super high quality stuff. Stronger and better built than macbooks and Dell XPS. Premium components. Just pure quality.

Don't be fooled. macs are just as easy to hack into than windows for individual, targeted attacks. But in all honesty, both platforms will perform well as a photo editing workstation. But if you decide to go windows, then do yourself the favour of getting a premium quality machine. I've owned Dell notebooks and none of them are built like the good Thinkpads.

[stevo8]

I agree the think pads are nice, but do you really think they are built stronger then the unibody macbooks?

[Deckham]

Build your own, and get exactly what you need.

[René Damkot]

Build your own, and get exactly what you need.
I think you may have missed this part:
laptop
;)

I'd get not the mac. It's a nice machine, but it has no FireWire. Big issue for me (Since I have a 1D and a 1D2 as well as a bunch of FW external HDDs) YMMV

Here's a review on the Dell: Link (http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/dell-xps-m1330/4505-3121_7-32465545.html).

If I were to get a new laptop, it'd probably be a MBP. If only they made a 12 or 13" :(

[Deckham]

I think you may have missed this part:

;)


I think you may be right haha - and serves me right for even posting in this topic :)

[Damian75]

Don't know what kinda panel is in the Dell but I know the apple has an S-IPS panel in it.

[Tony-S]

MacBooks don't have IPS panels in them.

[LostShootingStar]

I think you would need to specifiy what you are using the computer for, and which model Dell you are looking at. In general i would vote for the mac, unless you were trying to use it as a gaming machine or something http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/2465/o09a0208gstn/POTNsmile.gif
http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3218/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif
http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3200/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif

[cory1848]

I would do a search on reviews for customer service. IF you dont chose a mac, chose something besides the dell....

[Titus213]

I've recently added my first Mac to the mix - a MacBook unibody. I love it, but there is a learning curve for this old PC guy. I've made the break though and when my desktop dies of old age it will be replaced by a Mac. I have moved from building and tinkering with computers (PCs) to just wanting to be able to use them without wondering how long the maint window will be today.

[clark.moeller]

I just received my first ever mac, the Macbook unibody (2.0ghz, 4gb ram, 250gb hdd). I've only been playing with it for a few days but I'm in love with it. I've been a PC guy for the last 15 years, and the change wasn't too dramatic. There are a few things to get used to, but the overall build, architecture, and design of the OS has me in aw. I mainly bought it for portable photo editing, which it works great for so far. I have about 9000 photos that I store on my local drive for displaying/editing (editing mainly done with Lightroom) and the access time is really quick. I personally think this Mac will be my first of many, and I recommend the transition for you too. Feel free to PM me about any specific questions!

Small note. I live in Canada and I purchased mine through an employee purchasing program. Someone in my household works for Scotiabank (a large Canadian bank) so that entitled me to around a $150 discount. Check to see if your employer or someone you know has the same type if discount.

[disorder]

I just received my first ever mac, the Macbook unibody (2.0ghz, 4gb ram, 250gb hdd). I've only been playing with it for a few days but I'm in love with it. I've been a PC guy for the last 15 years, and the change wasn't too dramatic. There are a few things to get used to, but the overall build, architecture, and design of the OS has me in aw. I mainly bought it for portable photo editing, which it works great for so far. I have about 9000 photos that I store on my local drive for displaying/editing (editing mainly done with Lightroom) and the access time is really quick. I personally think this Mac will be my first of many, and I recommend the transition for you too. Feel free to PM me about any specific questions!

Small note. I live in Canada and I purchased mine through an employee purchasing program. Someone in my household works for Scotiabank (a large Canadian bank) so that entitled me to around a $150 discount. Check to see if your employer or someone you know has the same type if discount.

excellent. i've been a PC user for an easy 15 years as well, and now i am going to switch to a mac pretty soon. good to hear the transition went well... i'm excited for something new, different, and stable.

[FociBC]

I am going to get a MBP really soon. When you weight out the cost of top notch hardware vs (PC) and then add up all the little extras you need on the pc side. They really come out to about the same price. The fact that I can run windows on a mac without any issues and they support it isn't a bad idea to me. Plus I can't stop playing with them at work.

[hachi]

I switched over to a MBP from a Dell laptop less than a month ago. I want to be "in love" with it but at this point I'm just not there yet but I do like it alot. I think I'm still going through my own learning curve with it and find it frustrating at times. For example getting use to the location of the command button (next to the spacebar) vs. the CTRL button (last button on the edges of the keyboard). Or having to look up how to do things like "print screen" or deleting programs whereas those functions/actions were just automatic to me in the PC realm.

I've always wanted to learn the Mac platform and since I'm getting more into design these days I thought I'd give the MBP a whirl. I went with a "like new" condition MBP (the one right before the unibody). It has firewire, $1k + cheaper than a brand new unibody, and still has 2.5 yrs of Applecare on it.

Applecare customer service via phone and in person is bar none! Switching the warranty to myself was fast and easy. I also stripped one of the screws when I upgraded the RAM. My husband just walked into one of the Apple stores and they gave him 2 screws with no hassles and for free! Hoping not to need them at all in the future but knowing they're just in case is worth the extra $$$.

My old Dell laptop is 4 years old and is still running strong. I used it for my workhorse for photo processing, spreadsheets/word, and general internet use.

Good luck with picking. Speaking from experience, it's a difficult choice. Both platforms have their pros/cons but if you've been a PC in your past/current life it's worth knowing Apple too.

[MaxxuM]

I switched over to a MBP from a Dell laptop less than a month ago. I want to be "in love" with it but at this point I'm just not there yet but I do like it alot. I think I'm still going through my own learning curve with it and find it frustrating at times. For example getting use to the location of the command button (next to the spacebar) vs. the CTRL button (last button on the edges of the keyboard). Or having to look up how to do things like "print screen" or deleting programs whereas those functions/actions were just automatic to me in the PC realm.

I've always wanted to learn the Mac platform and since I'm getting more into design these days I thought I'd give the MBP a whirl. I went with a "like new" condition MBP (the one right before the unibody). It has firewire, $1k + cheaper than a brand new unibody, and still has 2.5 yrs of Applecare on it.

Applecare customer service via phone and in person is bar none! Switching the warranty to myself was fast and easy. I also stripped one of the screws when I upgraded the RAM. My husband just walked into one of the Apple stores and they gave him 2 screws with no hassles and for free! Hoping not to need them at all in the future but knowing they're just in case is worth the extra $$$.

My old Dell laptop is 4 years old and is still running strong. I used it for my workhorse for photo processing, spreadsheets/word, and general internet use.

Good luck with picking. Speaking from experience, it's a difficult choice. Both platforms have their pros/cons but if you've been a PC in your past/current life it's worth knowing Apple too.

It takes a little time to get used to it. Personally, after 15+ years of windows and about half than on Apple's, I find navigation on my MBP and Mac Pro far faster than PC with certain mice. My Logitech VX makes navigation so quick people freak out when they see me zipping from program to program and screen to screen (Expose & Spaces). Click the scroll wheel down and I have Expose, push it right or left and I slide between spaces. The buttons take a little longer to master :)

[Default501x]

i am a PC guy, but for a laptop, i ALWAYS recommend Macbooks. They are just much much better build quality, i have had nothing but trouble with Dell laptops.

go for the macbook, you won't be disappointed.

[tuan209]

I agree the think pads are nice, but do you really think they are built stronger then the unibody macbooks?


Yes. Go feel a Lenovo and you will know why they are the laptop most business execs use.

Also, go type on a Lenovo laptop and you will see that Lenovo's keypad is far superior to any Macbooks.

[MaxxuM]

Yes. Go feel a Lenovo and you will know why they are the laptop most business execs use.

Also, go type on a Lenovo laptop and you will see that Lenovo's keypad is far superior to any Macbooks.

Aluminum is generally considered more durable than industrial plastic - but both are highly sensitive electronic devices. I'm sure dropping either from 6' will break something. As for keyboards, 'superior' usually comes down to preference.

If you want highly durable then go get a Panasonic Toughbook. I've worked with some (Gov.) and litterally tossed one across the room and turned it on... No problem. Turned on I think it can only withstand a 3-4' drop though.

[stevo8]

I dropped my macbook pro on concrete from the roof of my car awhile back. It dented it pretty good but it still works fine.

[NAisBEST]

I'm never going back to a PC. I use a last-gen MBP hooked up to an external display most of the time, it's a phenomenal machine. OSX is much easier to deal with than windows. I simply got tired of "program not responding" and all the freezing that windows has. Never once have I had a hiccup in OSX (knocks on wood).

[R33E8]

I wouldn't go for the Mac.. I'm used to PC's and find them a lot simpler to use... The few times I've used Macs (from G5s to MBPs) I ended up being frustrated with it.. I don't think you'll get a good answer from most Mac users who bought their own computer because they don't want to bash something they paid a premium for.. They usually just ignore the downfalls.. One good example would be how bad the iPhone 1G,2G, and 3G were (the 3.0 update will help a lot) but everyone called them "innovations" and "leading the way".. The only thing it did "first" was the app store and a full touch screen.. EVERYTHING else on the phone was and still is sub-par... 2mp camera.. no mms.. no video.. I could go on and on..

To me, anything that is made by Apple can be found cheaper.. Their Cinema displays can be bought from DELL for less, their iPods have no advantages, besides 3rd party accessories, over a Zune.. The G5 is a terrible value for the money and you can buy workstations with twice the power for the same price.. It doesn't even come with a true workstation video card for that price (Quadro or FireGL)...

Buying a MB would be limiting yourself to a smaller range of software and trapping yourself to expensive upgrades and such.. Of course you can later buy Windows OS but then that will just be extra money you need to spend.. A Lenovo would be a much better buy in my opinion and is equivalent or better in build quality to a MB.. Anyways, that's my 1/4 rant about Apple computers.. What really put the nail in the coffin were the Mac vs PC ad's and the obnoxious Mac owners...

[NAisBEST]

What really put the nail in the coffin were the Mac vs PC ad's and the obnoxious Mac owners...

Personally, I find the latest Microsoft commercials far more irritating.

You're going to get various opinions from both sides. Personally, to me it's such a better platform for what I do with it.

[MaxxuM]

I wouldn't go for the Mac.. I'm used to PC's and find them a lot simpler to use... The few times I've used Macs (from G5s to MBPs) I ended up being frustrated with it.. I don't think you'll get a good answer from most Mac users who bought their own computer because they don't want to bash something they paid a premium for.. They usually just ignore the downfalls.. One good example would be how bad the iPhone 1G,2G, and 3G were (the 3.0 update will help a lot) but everyone called them "innovations" and "leading the way".. The only thing it did "first" was the app store and a full touch screen.. EVERYTHING else on the phone was and still is sub-par... 2mp camera.. no mms.. no video.. I could go on and on..

To me, anything that is made by Apple can be found cheaper.. Their Cinema displays can be bought from DELL for less, their iPods have no advantages, besides 3rd party accessories, over a Zune.. The G5 is a terrible value for the money and you can buy workstations with twice the power for the same price.. It doesn't even come with a true workstation video card for that price (Quadro or FireGL)...

Buying a MB would be limiting yourself to a smaller range of software and trapping yourself to expensive upgrades and such.. Of course you can later buy Windows OS but then that will just be extra money you need to spend.. A Lenovo would be a much better buy in my opinion and is equivalent or better in build quality to a MB.. Anyways, that's my 1/4 rant about Apple computers.. What really put the nail in the coffin were the Mac vs PC ad's and the obnoxious Mac owners...

There's no question that Apple lags behind hardware wise. It's the old adage; PC hardware moves faster than the software and Apple's software moves faster than their hardware. That however is all I can agree with.

Saying that you can find anything Apple produces by others is likely to come in only two forms. Imitation and poor imitation:) I could site examples how Zune & Vista has failed to excite/garner respect and the iPhone still dominates but the facts are pretty much evident everywhere you look. Apple is an innovator and they make fine products which serve a segment of the market very well. You may also say that BMW or Audi's are overpriced, but to me the premium is well worth it. When it isn't I'll buy something different.

[NAisBEST]

The argument that the iPhone is a flop and lacks in tech is bogus. It wouldn't be the most popular cell-phone in the world. I only own an iPod touch, and the device is phenomenal.

[songexe]

...wow this thread has derailed.

Honestly, if you're going to be some serious editing on this computer, I'd suggest getting the Dell but spend the $550 on upgrades. The MacBook isn't beefy enough to do a lot of intensive editing, so I think you'd be better served using the $550 on processor and RAM boosts (a faster HD never hurt anyone either).

(You do lose out on iPhoto though, which I think is the best gallery software out there, hands down)

[Tony-S]

The MacBook isn't beefy enough to do a lot of intensive editing, so I think you'd be better served using the $550 on processor and RAM boosts (a faster HD never hurt anyone either).

The MacBook is perfectly capable of doing intensive photo work, even with 5Dii raw files. That "extra" $550 on the MacBook goes toward other things that aren't available on the Dell, such as an LED backlit display (optional on the Dell for $125 more but with less of a vid camera), dual-link DisplayPort (capable of driving a 30" display at it native resolution), optical audio, enclosure, etc.

Dell has chosen to put more into hard drive space, memory, external connectivity, etc. Those are certainly fine, provided they're what the OP is looking for.

[songexe]

2 GB and a mediocre processor is capable of coveting RAWs and doing some basic editing, but it's nowhere near enough for intensive work (I've tried.)

Example: After stitching 15 - 12 megapixel images together for a pano, I had a ~250 MB tiff file. Every action I run on this file takes 3-4 minutes to complete, and I can't even save it as a JPG because there's no memory left. Failed malloc's are a bad thing.

(To me,) HD space is pretty irrelevant since I keep most of my stuff on a 2.5" external. 5400 RPM drives are still a huge bottleneck, and Photoshop is one of those apps where when it comes to RAM, more is more.

I'm not saying there arn't merits to the Macbook, because there are a lot of good points to that machine. But if the end goal is portable imaging editing, I think the OP will be severely annoyed with the lack of performance (if the end goal is something other than that, then there's a whole new battle to be fought.)

[MaxxuM]

2 GB and a mediocre processor is capable of coveting RAWs and doing some basic editing, but it's nowhere near enough for intensive work (I've tried.)

Example: After stitching 15 - 12 megapixel images together for a pano, I had a ~250 MB tiff file. Every action I run on this file takes 3-4 minutes to complete, and I can't even save it as a JPG because there's no memory left. Failed malloc's are a bad thing.

(To me,) HD space is pretty irrelevant since I keep most of my stuff on a 2.5" external. 5400 RPM drives are still a huge bottleneck, and Photoshop is one of those apps where when it comes to RAM, more is more.

I'm not saying there arn't merits to the Macbook, because there are a lot of good points to that machine. But if the end goal is portable imaging editing, I think the OP will be severely annoyed with the lack of performance (if the end goal is something other than that, then there's a whole new battle to be fought.)

I think people expect a little too much from laptops (which is a testament on how far they have come). Let us not forget that the MacBook is not a 'pro' machine either - that title is held by the MacBook Pro's ;). I would not get the 2GHz + 2GB version unless it was only going to be for light duty work anyway. My early 08 model with 2.5GHz CPU and 4GB RAM can handle just about anything excecpt the most 'intensive' professional work - and then it 'does' do it, just slower. No mobil CPU is going to compete w/ a desktop GHz to GHz and they were not meant to. My Mac Pro would pretty much stomp any other non-workstation, but that doesn't mean these desktops should be discounted. Buy the best computer for the job should be the aim of any photographer. My MBP can pump out a 6 image pano pretty quickly in CS4 (just did one a few days ago that was 800+MBs). A desktop would have done it in almost half the time and my Mac Pro in 1/3. I don't do pano's daily and I don't do 1000+ image batch jobs often either. It took my MBP about 10-15 minutes (round about, I wasn't timing it) using Picasa to create a Gift DVD of 3.8GBs (1,400 processed TIF's avg 20MB each) - the images were processed at 1,600 pixels for the long side, converted to JPGs, slideshows were created for each directory of images and then burned to a DVD. That DVD was taken to a 12-bay multi-burner and within about [total] hour I had 50 copies ready to be labeled and sold. If that isn't good enough, get a desktop because a laptop that will do better will cost more than $3,000.

[Scott007]

I think you'll be much happier with the MacBook. I've had a Dell Inspiron for many years and it's never let me down. I prefer working on Macs though.

[DRTHAY]

Ok, I pulled the trigger and went with the MacBook. I am on day 2 and so far so good seeing as how I have never used a Mac. I guess only time will tell.

[Titus213]

Apple.com has some great videos (http://www.apple.com/business/theater/) to help the transition. I've watched them several times.

Or tutorials on the differences - http://www.apple.com/support/switch101/switcher/

[MaxxuM]

Ok, I pulled the trigger and went with the MacBook. I am on day 2 and so far so good seeing as how I have never used a Mac. I guess only time will tell.

Look into the Logitech VX Revolution as well - it makes Mac navigation so effortless. The most used shortcut keys are Cmd-Q, Fn-F8-F11, Cmd-Shift-3 and Cmd-Option-Z (Photoshop) in my case.

[Titus213]

Look into the Logitech VX Revolution as well - it makes Mac navigation so effortless. The most used shortcut keys are Cmd-Q, Fn-F8-F11, Cmd-Shift-3 and Cmd-Option-Z (Photoshop) in my case.

How does the Logitech stack up against the Mighty Mouse?

Do you use QuickSilver? Free app that seems to work real well for keyboard shortcuts. I don't use the MacBook a lot (it's the wife's machine) but when I do I find QS quite convenient.

[zincozinco]

Dell? is that not a PC...? :)

[Lisa]

I would do a search on reviews for customer service. IF you dont chose a mac, chose something besides the dell....

I agree go with something other than a Dell. I had crappy customer service when I bought a desktop from them a while back. My power supply went out about a month after my purchase they fixed it with refurbished parts and within a week it went out again. Needless to say I got a refund because they refused to fix it again.

[Lisa]

Nevermind I see you went with a mac......at least it's not dell :)

[MaxxuM]

How does the Logitech stack up against the Mighty Mouse?

Do you use QuickSilver? Free app that seems to work real well for keyboard shortcuts. I don't use the MacBook a lot (it's the wife's machine) but when I do I find QS quite convenient.

They are very near apple's and oranges to me. I come from the PC world despite being a Mac person of 10 years. The Logitech mouse is a PC tool - buttons all over. I mainly do creative media with Aperture and Photoshop CS4 being tools that augment my overall work. To give you an idea of what I do I'll explain a typical workflow.

Today I had several projects all going at the same time. I was editing a Intranet website (not Internet), dealing with MySQL services remotely, editing some PHP to deal with link issues, had NeoOffice going as I typed up news articles, I was looking up graphic's on the Internet to get some ideas on how to display some web graphics for that site for which I had to use CS4 to modify to my liking, I had Active Directory going to edit some policies in our Microsoft network as well as cleaning up other AD objects, while Aperture was churning out batch jobs of photos that needed to be posted by the end of the day (about 1700 photos), Mail was going too... All from my MacBook Pro 2.5GHz 4GB laptop. The VX made switching between apps and desktops a breeze. I never really had to search for the right app that I needed. With a click or a push (side to side) I jumped from app to app and scrolled horizontally and vertically within CS4 and with another click I had the finder up looking for graphics and documents. The Mighty Mouse could never ever replace my VX - it's just not designed for that type of work. For my Mac Pro I have an MX mouse for the same reason.

[hooookup]

I was a windows user for many years and didn't buy into the Mac hype. About 3 months ago my wife called me and told me UCSD was selling brand new Macbook Pro's for $1199, so I decided to pick one up just to see what all the fuss was about. Needless to say, since then my pc laptop has been relegated to the cabinet where it now lives. I am floored by how awesome this macbook pro is and how stable it is. Not to mention it boots up in about 30 seconds and only takes a mere seconds to load CS4 where my laptop PC with 4gb's of Ram would take somewhere in the ball park of 45 seconds to a minute to load CS4. I couldn't be happier with Mac right now and am a true believer in the hype!

[snakekid]

Have you considered Asus its alot cheaper than Dell and is now considered one of the best laptops out there by many gamers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220483
this is just a random one that popped up on a newegg search but i find it to be quite fast. and resonable cost

[snakekid]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220511
DEMONLISHES macbook pro

[snakekid]

if you want something small and power for around 1k http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220512

[MaxxuM]

if you want something small and power for around 1k http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220512

Snakekid, not to say those computers are not fine machines, but there is much preoccupation with faster, bigger (memory/HDD) and options... in effect, 'more'. If your interested in more, then by all means, get a PC and if you have the cash then a real number cruncher like a Pixar or IBM workstation. I've worked on a few 32xCPU RISC systems with jukebox's with more than eighty drives... In the end you'll sure have a speed demon, but with all that power what will be served by it?

What many PC people do not seem to get about Mac's is the simplicity of design was not merely a vision of minimalism but a goal of making it a tool for a certain job - everything else was left out not due to oversight, but because it often hinders the prime objective. Once you learn to use this tool you're free to create for creative sake and not to push hardware limits. Mac is just another way of thinking. If you think of Mac's as a lesser cousin of the PC then you're missing the point. If you play the most advanced games then achieving the fastest hardware would be you're goal because it enhances that which you are attempting. I got a Mac Pro because I edit video and Final Cut Studio is currently the mainstay of the industry - yet I still use After Effects. For photography, CS4, Lightroom and Aperture require no more than a computer with a modest CPU and 2GB of RAM to perform well. Anything more would simply allow you to work a little faster in small increments, but my 2.5GHz MBP will outdo any armature’s dual quad i7 running in dual SLI in editing photos, video and 3d despite the difference in speed.

Simply put, get the tool for which your skill, your pocket book and your reasonable future expectations may be. That is why artists oft choose Mac's over PC's. Yet, there is room for those that still want to tweak, push and cajole a little more speed from thier computers simply because that is thier aim. But as a photographer, videographer and creative sprit, that is not mine.

[Moppie]

Snakekid, not to say those computers are not fine machines, but there is much preoccupation with faster, bigger (memory/HDD) and options...

Both of the systems Snakekid linked to were fairly average in most specs. Ram and HDD size was similar to the Macbook range. However, one did have a quad core, which would be nice for batch processing in PS or LR.

I'm not sure if Acer are building laptops with the high end build quality of a Lenovo or a Macbook though, even if the performance is similar, there is a reason they are cheaper.

but my 2.5GHz MBP will outdo any armature’s dual quad i7 running in dual SLI in editing photos, video and 3d despite the difference in speed.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=170063

[snakekid]

Well what i recommended is far better than dell and macbooks when you consider the price. Plus the greatest thing you could possibly do for a laptop is to change out the HDD and get a SSD. If you really want a beast of a photo editor you could get core i7 since core i7 will allow you to get a mobo with DDR3 RAM which has a great advantage over the old standard ddr2 everyone still uses.
You could also RAID 2 HDDs for even faster Access.
Most graphics cards that cost more than 150 on the market right now will be more than sufficent for photo editing.
But you really only so need a moderate processor, average GPU, and ram. Mostly read write speed of the drives is whats slowing down photo editing, initially.

[snakekid]

I also dont think anything of the argument of PC vs. MAC. I normally do all my work in ubuntu. Unless i have something i need run in windows like lightroom. AutoCAD. Matlab

[snakekid]

What many PC people do not seem to get about Mac's is the simplicity of design was not merely a vision of minimalism but a goal of making it a tool for a certain job - everything else was left out not due to oversight, but because it often hinders the prime objective. Once you learn to use this tool you're free to create for creative sake and not to push hardware limits. Mac is just another way of thinking. If you think of Mac's as a lesser cousin of the PC then you're missing the point. If you play the most advanced games then achieving the fastest hardware would be you're goal because it enhances that which you are attempting. I got a Mac Pro because I edit video and Final Cut Studio is currently the mainstay of the industry - yet I still use After Effects. For photography, CS4, Lightroom and Aperture require no more than a computer with a modest CPU and 2GB of RAM to perform well. Anything more would simply allow you to work a little faster in small increments, but my 2.5GHz MBP will outdo any armature’s dual quad i7 running in dual SLI in editing photos, video and 3d despite the difference in speed.


You realize that Both macs and pcs build up junk processes with prolonged use right? that is why ubuntu is far superior and far more efficient they should make Adobe software for editing for linux. Mind you NASA uses redhat.

[MaxxuM]

I'm not sure if Acer are building laptops with the high end build quality of a Lenovo or a Macbook though, even if the performance is similar, there is a reason they are cheaper.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=170063

I meant producing a viable product within the shortest amount of time. No matter how powerful the computer an amateur does not have the knowledge or experience to compete with someone that does. Another example would be Ansel Adams - it is not the tools that make you good, it's your ability.

[olstudios]

i would say go with a mac, cleaner operating system and not as much maintenance as the pc

[MaxxuM]

You realize that Both macs and pcs build up junk processes with prolonged use right? that is why ubuntu is far superior and far more efficient they should make Adobe software for editing for linux. Mind you NASA uses redhat.

No offense, but Linux is as friendly as a rabid poodle :D

I can put a Mac, PC and a Linux box in front of a child and more times than not the Mac will be the easiest one to use. I've also seen so many broken Linux machines that I would never ever recommend one to an amateur. They have come a long way since I installed Slackware back in 1995 - but it still isn't a viable option for the masses. Most people just look at you blankly when you ask them which they prefer, KDE or Gnome. Then they just shut off when asked if they know how to compile a program. It's too bad though, Linux is a very powerful tool that just doesn't have enough support in the GUI department. KDE and Gnome are antiquated and clunky feeling compared to the refined smoothness of OS X and Windows.

As for OS X and Windows generating junk processes, OS X is based on BSD which is UNIX. There are no 'junk processes' nor is there a Registry to bloat. Each program is isolated and each process can be turned off or deleted. The only thing that happens is drive fragmentation after long periods of time of use (which is highly tempered by a smart OS that avoids fragmentation and modern hard drives). The daily, weekly and periodic cleanup scripts pretty much deal with the 'junk'. There are also programs that will hunt down program remnants to further clean things up. After more than a year with this particular MBP boot up only takes around 25sec. and CS4 just took me 6.7 seconds to load up - on second start it took 2.8 seconds. And that is with Firefox, Mail, NeoOffice and Aperture going.

[snakekid]

linux isnt that bad now it only took me 3 hours to get dual view to work and another 4 to get 5.1 audio to work. the new ubuntu distro booted in 17.5 seconds! GIMP loads almost instantly but thats a differ story. They need to make an open source lightroom

[Tony-S]

They need to make an open source lightroom

Like Blue Marine (http://bluemarine.tidalwave.it/)?

[Kadath]

They have come a long way since I installed Slackware back in 1995

So YOU were the other guy who installed Slack! I knew it couldnt have been just me =)

Seriously tho, big difference since back then. Still can't stand how 'by engineers for engineers' linux is, but it's getting better all the time. It's nice to see projects like Ubuntu pushing Linux UI and User EXPERIENCE.

linux isnt that bad now it only took me 3 hours to get dual view to work and another 4 to get 5.1 audio to work. the new ubuntu distro booted in 17.5 seconds! GIMP loads almost instantly but thats a differ story. They need to make an open source lightroom

Wow, I hope that was tongue in cheek. You need to lighten off the cool-aid a lil bit, kid =)

Like Blue Marine?

Wake me up when Linux apps stop trying to clone successful apps and start actually, you know, coming up with original ideas, concepts, tools and UI/experiences that work and are a pleasure to use.

[pennypue]

MaxxuM, you almost have me convinced to try a Mac.

What about all those pics that I have saved on an external drive?

The idea of abandoning my PC is a bit scary since my inhouse techsupport aka boyfriend, might not be quite to willing to support it. (Set up printers, put me on the wireless network....etc)

[MaxxuM]

MaxxuM, you almost have me convinced to try a Mac.

What about all those pics that I have saved on an external drive?

The idea of abandoning my PC is a bit scary since my inhouse techsupport aka boyfriend, might not be quite to willing to support it. (Set up printers, put me on the wireless network....etc)

First, I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything except keep their mind open to Mac's. Next, if the photos are in regular format like RAW, jpeg, tiff or any of the other common formats then Mac's will see them just fine. If they are Lightroom files then you'll have to have LR for Mac to read them - but the photos themselves will still work fine. Mac's can pretty much read anything that was made on a PC. MacBook Pro's and iMac's have firewire as well as USB ports so any external drive will work on a Mac too. If the drives are Firewire 400 you'll need an adapter for the new Mac's though.

Your guy is a PC... Dump him and get with a Mac :D j/k

You know all that driver install stuff on PC's? Well, kiss them goodby. Just about anything made for computers in the past 5 years will work on a Mac by just pluging it in to the right socket. I'm sure there are some things that wont work like maybe some specialized scanners or such, but they are rare. I haven't come across anything so far that hasn't worked and I use tons of equipment the layman would never encounter. There really isn't much support required by you or anyone else. If you have trouble you can call Apple Care; they're super friendly and unlike all the forigners used by other OEM's Apple uses very well spoken reps that don't talk down to you. If you have an Apple store near by you could take it there and they'll help you - even if it's out of warranty! The only time they charge is when you're out of warranty and something needs to be replaced.

I know, it's kinda wierd not thinking about drivers, boot issues, virues, defraging, corrupted programs, blue screens.... It just works :) Yea, there are lemons out there as well as people that had a really bad day and snap at you... overall though, the Mac world is just so much more relaxed. I don't think I've 'worried' about fixing anything about my Mac in the past year and a half... gotta go... need to take photos :)

[Moppie]

I know, it's kinda wierd not thinking about drivers, boot issues, virues, defraging, corrupted programs, blue screens.... It just works................ I don't think I've 'worried' about fixing anything about my Mac in the past year and a half... gotta go... need to take photos :)


You have just described my computing experiance for the last 18 months.
Only I'm running Vista.
I've never had to think about drivers, boot issues, virues, defraging, corrupted programs, blue screens.... It just works.


I think you would be amazed at how many devices do NOT work with OS-X, but will work with Vista.
I have a pretty common Vodafone branded cell phone that connects visa USB or Bluetooth to Vista, XP and Ubuntu with out needing to install anything. It is completely ignored by OS-X.
I've seen a Mac book have big problems trying to connect to a D-Link wireless hub, it kept dropping the signal, usually during an important meeting.

[MaxxuM]

You have just described my computing experiance for the last 18 months.
Only I'm running Vista.
I've never had to think about drivers, boot issues, virues, defraging, corrupted programs, blue screens.... It just works.

I think you would be amazed at how many devices do NOT work with OS-X, but will work with Vista.
I have a pretty common Vodafone branded cell phone that connects visa USB or Bluetooth to Vista, XP and Ubuntu with out needing to install anything. It is completely ignored by OS-X.
I've seen a Mac book have big problems trying to connect to a D-Link wireless hub, it kept dropping the signal, usually during an important meeting.

I should have said, "Since getting any particular Mac I haven't thought about...." You're the exception IME. Ever notice how mechanic's cars seem to keep running too? As far as Vondafone, I ran across this issue too and I found this (LINK (http://www.business.vodafone.com/site/bus/public/enuk/support/10_productsupport/laptop_connectivity/40_software/software/10_latest/p_mac.jsp)) which cured the problem. It may or may not be what you were having issues with - Vonda did do something that killed Mac support but they fixed it. As far as wireless routers/access points, I've always believed Apple could do better. ...... OK I just wrote three paragraphs trying to explain what the issue is and I would have likely just board everyone so let me just sum up the issue. When Apple doesn't connect to a wireless router (and everything was set up correctly) it is almost always the same issue. OS X will always ignore the weaker encryption/Ethernet (A/B/G/N). To solve this, pick one encryption (WPA, WPA2, Enterprise etc...). Mixed mode networks are insecure by their very nature and are not recommended. D-Link does this by default for some reason. Pick WPA2 or Enterprise (RADIUS). So, Apple in their wisdom decided to abide by all the rules and many Windows vendors did not. They erred on the side of compatibility instead of security. Another problem is 802.11n - Apple went with draft 2 which is enterprise standard and d-link in their ineffable wisdom chose to tweak their own. OS X will connect with them, but not in a mixed mode environment (there are tricks to get them to work though). Pick N and not B/N or B/G/N (not sure about A/N I've never tried). Each connection can be modified individually as needed. So, if you are getting poor or intermittent connections (and everything else is perfect) then look at the encryption and the 802.11x standard being used with the access points.

So, in short, Apple was complying within standards.

[cosworth]

Until Mac adds a home or end key (3rd and 4th shiniest keys on my keyboard) they won't get a cent from me.

Former Mac user using a DELL XPS and loving it.

[Moppie]

I should have said, "Since getting any particular Mac I haven't thought about...." You're the exception IME. Ever notice how mechanic's cars seem to keep running too?

So my Neighbors, my Parents, my Fiance, 3 close friends, and about 50 other people I know are also exceptions?
I used to work as a mechanic, my car broke down more than anyone elses I knew, except other mechanics.

If you were talking about the windows of 10 years ago, then I would agree with you. But the Apple OS of 10 years ago was just as bad.
I remember trying to connect my first digital camera and scanner to a windows 95 machine, and it was not a simple plug and play operation. The Scanner would not have worked with the Apple OS of the time at all, while the camera worked, but none of the Canon supplied software would have.
That same scanner and camera connect to Vista by just plugging them in. I imagine they would connect to OS-X just as easily (I know the camera would).

I plugged a no-brand 56k PCi modem from the late 90s into my neighbors new Vista machine a couple of months ago.
When I turned it on Vista detected it and automatically set it up.
I pressed the windows key, and typed "connect internet".
It open the internet connection wizard, he entered his details and Vista set up a working dial up connection.
I didn't have to install anything, a random device that is 15 years old worked straight away.
Trying doing that with your mac (try finding a Pci slot to start with :lol::lol:).

If you start with decent hardware (not a $250 HP or Dell special), then Vista is just as stable, just as reliable and just as easy to use as OS-X.
And unlike OS-X you get to run it on a far wider range of hardware, and use a far wider range of software.

[MaxxuM]

Until Mac adds a home or end key (3rd and 4th shiniest keys on my keyboard) they won't get a cent from me.

Former Mac user using a DELL XPS and loving it.

I always wondered why Apple refuses to put those keys on their keyboards - they are pretty underrated, but still used a good bit by 'typers'. My Logitech keyboard came with software to fix this, there is the re-binding trick and the CMD+Left arrow and CMD+Right arrow shortcuts... Yet, no default keys on Mac included keyboards.

[MaxxuM]

So my Neighbors, my Parents, my Fiance, 3 close friends, and about 50 other people I know are also exceptions?
I used to work as a mechanic, my car broke down more than anyone elses I knew, except other mechanics.

As far as the '90's I made a lot of money being a tech back then

As for the other, yes, in short. In length, the rule that PC's have some form of virus protection. If you installed it then you have thought more about the subject than I have [on a Mac]. I am also willing to bet that within that number (50+) some of them have had BSoD, a plethora of failed services (I have never encountered a PC without at least one failed service after 3 months of use), I'm also willing to bet that some have plenty of junk accumulating in their Startup/Taskbar's and that most within a year will crash (OS).

Don't get me wrong, Mac's aren't perfect. But you have to put my comments into context. I co-manage a network with more than 10,000+ computers and see a good bit. It's not like PC's are dropping like flies, but there is a noticeable difference in percentages (I've mentioned before). Vista has been a nightmare for me and many other businesses because it simply wasn't ready when it came out. Even today there are some pretty serious issues. Yet, home users that have a simple bubblejet, keyboard, mouse and digital camera are not likely to encounter them. As long as they don't start installing all manner of 'free' programs from strangers they'll probably be fine. However, how many PC users are really that smart about their computer habits? Even as a Microsoft Developer I cannot find many professionals that will say Vista was a success. For every person that tells me that Vista runs fine I can find two people that have had bad times with it. Yes, it's likely thier own fault... Well, there it is as Malcolm would say.

[Moppie]

As far as the '90's I made a lot of money being a tech back then

As for the other, yes, in short. In length, the rule that PC's have some form of virus protection. If you installed it then you have thought more about the subject than I have [on a Mac]. I am also willing to bet that within that number (50+) some of them have had BSoD, a plethora of failed services (I have never encountered a PC without at least one failed service after 3 months of use), I'm also willing to bet that some have plenty of junk accumulating in their Startup/Taskbar's and that most within a year will crash (OS).

Don't get me wrong, Mac's aren't perfect. But you have to put my comments into context. I co-manage a network with more than 10,000+ computers and see a good bit. It's not like PC's are dropping like flies, but there is a noticeable difference in percentages (I've mentioned before). Vista has been a nightmare for me and many other businesses because it simply wasn't ready when it came out. Even today there are some pretty serious issues. Yet, home users that have a simple bubblejet, keyboard, mouse and digital camera are not likely to encounter them. As long as they don't start installing all manner of 'free' programs from strangers they'll probably be fine. However, how many PC users are really that smart about their computer habits? Even as a Microsoft Developer I cannot find many professionals that will say Vista was a success. For every person that tells me that Vista runs fine I can find two people that have had bad times with it. Yes, it's likely thier own fault... Well, there it is as Malcolm would say.


So it is Vista's fault that a larger number of computer users are ignorant?
It is interesting that OS-X has been indentified as being more more vunerable to the actions of an ignorant or niave user than Vista.
As OS-X's user base increases it will suffer more and more from the same ignorance and niavity.

You have posted your statistics before, and they were shown to be mis-representative.


I don't know anything about using Vista in an enterprise level network, but I do know a lot of IT Pro's and Network admins who are scared of change, don't want to retrain, or are simply to lazy to learn something new. Again, not Vista's problem, but interestinly enough it is one reason why OS-X is not as common in business use as Windows.

Vista was badly launched. No one can deny that.
But, since SP1 it has performed extremely well.
I don't know anyone who has had a problem with it.


And none of the people I mentioned have ever had BSoD or a plethora of failed services because there was something wrong with OS.
A couple (including myself) have had hardware failures, but all hardware will fail eventually, it doesn't matter what OS is running on it.

[Faolan]

Linux is still too dependant on third party people creating DEB/RPM/Tarballs to install things, and resorting to CLI when things go wrong. For the novice user who wants to move slightly out of bounds or non-standard apps Linux becomes very unfriendly. It took me the better part of 3 hours to get Linux to partition, mount and automount a new HD. In Windows it's almost all done automatically in Linux I had to resort to CLI. That's why Linux isn't accepted. It has potential but...

Vista vs OS X, there's practically no difference. Vista has a massive database of drivers for hardware which is part of the reason why it's so big and if Vista install doesn't have it then it might be downloaded via Windows updates. OS X has a limited database support and Apple can and has cut off support for older hardware. Usage, in many ways OS X is a very polished UI compared to Vista, but it's comparable to Windows 7.

Arguably Vista security is far better than OS X, particularly x64. It has more layers of security built into the OS. Things like DEP, ASLR, Kernel guard. The most targetted OS these days is XP not Vista. Vista has had few major infections. Even the recent AntiVirus 2007 trojan that came didn't install properly on Vista or failed altogether. It's also harder to determine if a person is infected on OS X, at present there is Mac owners that have an infection and contributing to Bot Nets. The recent iBotnet is a sophisticated and very intelligent network on par with what Windows has had to put up with in the last few months aka Storm or Conficker.

There is no security against the end user where most attacks originate from these days. Virii are a dying breed. Almost all malware is Trojan or drive by injection attacks which Safari is vulnerable to, scarily so. A recent flamewar proved this...

The only secure OS is one that's not on the 'Net and doesn't have a user using it!

At the end the day buy the system that you're happy with rather than sitting on fora pondering, a system doing work is worth more in your hand.

The best laptops I've come across are:

Lenovo, HP, Macbook Pro's (older varients without nVidia) and then Dell. Acer are also pretty good.

Yes that list is in order, I've put MBP because of screen quality issues, build issues and also GPU issues. Lenovo laptops are built like tanks and come with a good warranty period and support. They are also very easy to deal with when it comes to support. HP are also good for support and they do some great bargain priced laptops that are usually pretty good for 90% of work.

CNET (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10226746-92.html)
Dailytech (http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Gets+Its+Own+Trojan+Viruses+for+the+First+Ti me/article14950.htm)

[MaxxuM]

So it is Vista's fault that a larger number of computer users are ignorant?
It is interesting that OS-X has been indentified as being more more vunerable to the actions of an ignorant or niave user than Vista.
As OS-X's user base increases it will suffer more and more from the same ignorance and niavity.

You have posted your statistics before, and they were shown to be mis-representative.


I don't know anything about using Vista in an enterprise level network, but I do know a lot of IT Pro's and Network admins who are scared of change, don't want to retrain, or are simply to lazy to learn something new. Again, not Vista's problem, but interestinly enough it is one reason why OS-X is not as common in business use as Windows.

Vista was badly launched. No one can deny that.
But, since SP1 it has performed extremely well.
I don't know anyone who has had a problem with it.


And none of the people I mentioned have ever had BSoD or a plethora of failed services because there was something wrong with OS.
A couple (including myself) have had hardware failures, but all hardware will fail eventually, it doesn't matter what OS is running on it.

To each their own. I can only speak to my experience. I can manage each as equally as the other, but I choose Mac over Vista. As for the numbers (stats), all I know is that percentage wise (sine we have less Mac's than PCs) I spend less time having to repair Mac's than I do PCs. That is likely because Dell is a budget oriented company and more than not goes with the lowest bidder. And that is also why Apple doesn't do well in the business arena, American's will overwhelmingly go with what costs less (the Wal-Mart nation I believe someone called it). Apple also does not cater to some environments (engineering, finance and gaming are the biggies). And lastly, the security issues have been known, but even hackers agree, Mac's are for the moment safer than PCs because they are just not worth attacking. Snow Leopard is said to be the first big step by Apple to enter the business world with ramped up security, integrated Exchange support and a slew of other goodies like a lighter Kernel, OpenCL and ZFS.

[snakekid]

i brought up asus not acer, asus is much better than acer...

[Tony-S]

Until Mac adds a home or end key (3rd and 4th shiniest keys on my keyboard) they won't get a cent from me.

They have both on their keyboards.

[red-barron]

I use vista ultimate on two pc's and I also use macs. In the short time that I've had vista, its caused me more problems than any other operating system. The only reason I have pc's is for games otherwise I would stick to apple as I find they work a lot easier. Sure, they might not be as good as vista in the sense that vista offers a lot more software to be used but I find that whatever I need to do on my macs, there is some software that will do it just fine. Macs can also run windows quite easily if you really need it and while a custom built computer will also be able to run hackintosh, its too much dicking around. I wish that I didn't have the problems I've had with vista as I see other people and know other people with it that haven't had the problems. I guess I'm just unlucky.

[Village_Idiot]

I know, it's kinda wierd not thinking about drivers, boot issues, virues, defraging, corrupted programs, blue screens.... It just works :) Yea, there are lemons out there as well as people that had a really bad day and snap at you... overall though, the Mac world is just so much more relaxed. I don't think I've 'worried' about fixing anything about my Mac in the past year and a half... gotta go... need to take photos :)

My MOTU 828 MKII required drivers, Logic 7 was the king of instability, I had to install software for the Wacom Intuos 4 tablet and HP Media Smart Server, OS X had a serious crash and had to be reinstalled this weekend, and my MBP wouldn't recognize the 2 GB RAM module I put it.

Wonderful weekend.

But everything is bound to have problems at some point in time, especially if you're doing more than browsing the internet and editing photos.

I mean, I still use it. Like everything else, I figure out how to solve the issue, fix it, and move on. If Apple computers were bullet proof and just worked, there would be no need for them to have a tech support department.

[Village_Idiot]

I use vista ultimate on two pc's and I also use macs. In the short time that I've had vista, its caused me more problems than any other operating system. The only reason I have pc's is for games otherwise I would stick to apple as I find they work a lot easier. Sure, they might not be as good as vista in the sense that vista offers a lot more software to be used but I find that whatever I need to do on my macs, there is some software that will do it just fine. Macs can also run windows quite easily if you really need it and while a custom built computer will also be able to run hackintosh, its too much dicking around. I wish that I didn't have the problems I've had with vista as I see other people and know other people with it that haven't had the problems. I guess I'm just unlucky.

I've had an MSDN copy of Ultimate on my 17" Dell notebook that I use for gaming since the February after it's release. I've had no problems at all. I also run Vista Home Premium on my MBP for games. No problems there for the most part. The fan likes to run all the time, but it's really cramped in there, so it needs to move air.

[JayCee Images]

I use both on a daily basis and can tell you this...

For an out of the box, plug and play, super easy to use computer, get the Mac. Youll pay more for a comparably configured computer and it may or may not be worth the price to you personally. With a PC, you usually get more computing power for you money. You can get a PC with equal or greater specs than most macs for often several hundreds of dollars cheaper. But therein lies the problems sometimes...alot of PC manufacturers use cheaper components and materials for building their systems and it shows in their products alot of the time. Where sometimes youll find the Mac is made of aluminum, sleek, slim and sexy, a comparable PC will often be made of plastic, thick and clunky.

As far as photo editing goes, there really is no difference anymore. Your running the same software on both systems(for me at least with Lightroom and CS3) and pretty much everything is in the same place and performs the same functions. The biggest differences are in the actual operating systems themselves which im very confident in saying Mac has the clear edge with OSX...no viruses, no spyware, no bloatware, no memory hogging, etc.

I use both and i like both...my at home, dedicated photo editing rig is a 24" iMac but my on the go laptop is a PC...mostly because i wouldnt feel nearly as bad about losing or damaging a 700 dollar PC as i would a 2000 dollar Mac laptop! ;)

[MaxxuM]

My MOTU 828 MKII required drivers, Logic 7 was the king of instability, I had to install software for the Wacom Intuos 4 tablet and HP Media Smart Server, OS X had a serious crash and had to be reinstalled this weekend, and my MBP wouldn't recognize the 2 GB RAM module I put it.

Wonderful weekend.

But everything is bound to have problems at some point in time, especially if you're doing more than browsing the internet and editing photos.

I mean, I still use it. Like everything else, I figure out how to solve the issue, fix it, and move on. If Apple computers were bullet proof and just worked, there would be no need for them to have a tech support department.

Bad luck. Everyone has their preferences and experiences - but overall, the numbers keep going in Apple's direction. Best customer care, least amount of software issues, least amount of hardware issues, top computers (sales) in their classes, chosen by artists, best in class construction, better than most stock values, good business outlook...

I help manage a 10,000+ computer network of which around 3,000 are Apple computers and servers. I see a pretty big picture here unlike most on PotN. The Apple's require less servicing than the PC's (percentange wise) on my network as well as most (according to other third parties which gauge these statistics). It's almost 2:1. Not that Mac's are perfect. They aren't! However, the quality of workmanship and testing goes beyond most other manufactures I have personal experience with. Dell for instants does a burnin test of the hardware, not an OS stability test. HP doesn't even do that. Anyway, I use PC's too. I cannot avoid it and if well kept a PC will do just fine. Then thing is, PC's have a higher need for care than Apples.

[Village_Idiot]

I have a problem with Apple's customer care. You only get three months of phone service where as you have to take it into a store, even though it's still under warranty. Dell & HP will still at least talk to you.

[JayCee Images]

I have a problem with Apple's customer care. You only get three months of phone service where as you have to take it into a store, even though it's still under warranty. Dell & HP will still at least talk to you.

They sure will...but the big question is, do you speak enough Hindu to understand them?? :p

[Village_Idiot]

They sure will...but the big question is, do you speak enough Hindu to understand them?? :p

It's quite less inconvenient than driving 75 or so miles to the closest Apple store.

[MaxxuM]

I have a problem with Apple's customer care. You only get three months of phone service where as you have to take it into a store, even though it's still under warranty. Dell & HP will still at least talk to you.

Yet, they still get the best customer satisfaction.

Nothing against our Brazilian and Indian friends, but I hate calling Dell on personal computer care service. At work we have Gold Tech Support (cue) and have zero wait times and a personal tech that will do call backs and stay however long necessary - they will even fly down if the problem is big. I'm a Dell Certified Systems Expert (Lvl III) as well as an Apple Certified Support Professional, Apple Certified Technical Coordinator and am being pushed by work to also get Apple Certified Systems Professional while friends are saying Red Hat is the way to go since I'm at the enterprise level...

At work I simply debug, enter in the service tag online and then wait for next day delivery of the part. I'm spoiled :cool:

[scrapbooker]

Please go with your own structured system. You will get best value for your money for sure. Itis actually easy one to assemble your own system.

[ObiDamnKenobi]

The OP asked about pics on an external drive up somewhere.. Does anyone know how macs work with NTFS vs FAT32 drives now? They use the FAT32 system right? I remember a friend could not use my external HD (NTFS) on his mac because of this, is this still the case?

[Tony-S]

Macs can read and write NTFS volumes provided you install the freewares MacFuse (http://code.google.com/p/macfuse/) and NTFS-3G (http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com/).

[ObiDamnKenobi]

thanks Tony. I'll keep that in my when my girlfriend borrows my HD for her mac:)

[xoldboy]

Mac > PC anyday.

[Moppie]

Mac > PC anyday.



Green > Yello anyday!

:rolleyes:


:lol::lol:

[cosworth]

Why not Mac OS on a Dell? I do this often.

Still prefer Vista 64 than OSX and Unbuntu. I have a separate drive for every OS.

Hardware and OS software are really becoming irrelevant to me. All i care about is "will my fave apps run PROPERLY with this operating system? At this time - Vista >

Former Mac user...

[mickeyjuice]

I've got a unibody MBP and I'm about to sell it to a mate at work and buy a Windows notebook. The MBP is OK, but the lack of decent software compared to the Windows software I use at home on the desktop, and the lack of a proper delete key have frustrated me out of it. (Yes, running VMWare Fusion, but it seems kinda silly to do that or bootcamp it to run Windows fulltime.)

OTOH, my mate loves it and can't wait to get it, but pretty much all he does is video editing, it's not a general workhorse, and he's using a MP at work.

[René Damkot]

the lack of a proper delete key

Just in case you didn't know: Fn + delete = "Windows style" delete. ;)

[mickeyjuice]

Just in case you didn't know: Fn + delete = "Windows style" delete. ;)

Thanks, but yeah, I did know that. But when you're pushing hard up against a deadline, using both hands to delete is a touch annoying :-)

[Gladiat0R]

using two fingers instead of one annoying????

[mickeyjuice]

using two fingers instead of one annoying????

Totally. It's about efficiency, especially when you HAVE to get the document out NOW.

[Pearlallica]

haven't read any of the first 7 pages, but having done extensive researching, i would conclude:

PC (not dell), custom build:
Core 2 Duo or i7 (quad core not supported in photoshop)
8 or 9GB (depending on the motherboard and ram combo) of FAST DDR3 RAM
$100 HD friendly video card (not factoring in video editing if that's your thing)
64-Bit Vista and 64-bit photoshop

Software in, that will run you about 2 grand.

A mac will cost you triple that on those specs alone (software in). Their memory costs are pure robbery. Get a Mac-Mini if you like the OS and don't mind using it as a media system.

[Faolan]

haven't read any of the first 7 pages, but having done extensive researching, i would conclude:

PC (not dell), custom build:
Core 2 Duo or i7 (quad core not supported in photoshop)
8 or 9GB (depending on the motherboard and ram combo) of FAST DDR3 RAM


Amend that to PS CS 4 is Quad Core aware but only in certain functionality will it take advantage of it. Also if you're going budget PCs then AMD Phenom II is worth a look otherwise it's the i7 for sheer speed.

As to RAM try 8 or 12Gb, as you really don't want odd numbered RAM in your system as that can affect performance.

[Moppie]

As to RAM try 8 or 12Gb, as you really don't want odd numbered RAM in your system as that can affect performance.


You do if its an I7 system running tripple channel RAM, then you want it in multiples of 3. :cool:

[Pearlallica]

haven't read any of the first 7 pages, but having done extensive researching, i would conclude

haha, pays to read at least SOME of the first 7 pages.. "looking to buy a laptop". So much for that. But hey, if you're in the market for a PC, at least you know I've done some of the homework for ya. ;)

[kini]

haven't read any of the first 7 pages, but having done extensive researching, i would conclude:

PC (not dell), custom build:
Core 2 Duo or i7 (quad core not supported in photoshop)
8 or 9GB (depending on the motherboard and ram combo) of FAST DDR3 RAM
$100 HD friendly video card (not factoring in video editing if that's your thing)
64-Bit Vista and 64-bit photoshop

Software in, that will run you about 2 grand.

A mac will cost you triple that on those specs alone (software in). Their memory costs are pure robbery. Get a Mac-Mini if you like the OS and don't mind using it as a media system.

"64-Bit Vista" too bad this one "component" renders the rest of them useless. Vista 64 is by FAR the worst POS Windows version EVER by a longshot and I've used them all since 3.1.

I lasted about 6 hours with it. Thank God I bought my PC from Costco so I could take it back.

Oh, and with a core i7 920, 6bg DDR3 triple channel memory, the Vista interface was much, much slower than my old P4 3.6 w/ 2GB of ram. That and the OS is unsuable.

I'm glad I spent $300 more on a base model 24" iMac. OS X is so much better in terms of GUI repsonsiveness and usability it's just not fair to even compare it to Vista.

Here's just one example of my many Vista issues. My old PC is a Dell XPS with a 20" 2005FPW monitor. This was a high end (good panel) monitor that swivels. Well, I get my new Dell XPS with the consumer 24" monitor (which looked pretty good). I hook up my 2005FPW in extended desktop. My ATI Overdrive software recognizes the monitor by name, gives the option to rotate the image, but it won't because Vista sees it as a generic 20" panel. No amount of "trickery" will get it to rotate the 2nd display.

Apparently Vista still requires a "driver" for monitors (like it's still 1990). Dell doesn't offer a Vista "driver" for this monitor. Software update runs. Installs a 100mb of security crap and trashes my ATI Overdrive software and driver. So now my video card is "generic".

Now on my iMac. I hook up the monitor. OS X sees it and correctly identifies it as a Dell 2005FPW and boom I now have a 2nd monitor to use in portrait mode. Plus OS X comes with a nice built in calibration tool that allows me to have both monitors look the same even though the iMac has the glossy screen.

Anyway, after 15 years with Windows and only a week with OS X you couldn't pay me to use Vista.

Gene

[Ethan]

64-Bit Vista" too bad this one "component" renders the rest of them useless. Vista 64 is by FAR the worst POS Windows version EVER by a longshot and I've used them all since 3.1.

Care to elaborate?

Oh, and with a core i7 920, 6bg DDR3 triple channel memory, the Vista interface was much, much slower than my old P4 3.6 w/ 2GB of ram. That and the OS is unsuable.

Complete BS. Your ass must did the talking.

I'm glad I spent $300 more on a base model 24" iMac. OS X is so much better in terms of GUI repsonsiveness and usability it's just not fair to even compare it to Vista.

Your opinion.

Here's just one example of my many Vista issues. My old PC is a Dell XPS with a 20" 2005FPW monitor. This was a high end (good panel) monitor that swivels. Well, I get my new Dell XPS with the consumer 24" monitor (which looked pretty good). I hook up my 2005FPW in extended desktop. My ATI Overdrive software recognizes the monitor by name, gives the option to rotate the image, but it won't because Vista sees it as a generic 20" panel. No amount of "trickery" will get it to rotate the 2nd display.

You are lack of knowledge.

Apparently Vista still requires a "driver" for monitors (like it's still 1990). Dell doesn't offer a Vista "driver" for this monitor. Software update runs. Installs a 100mb of security crap and trashes my ATI Overdrive software and driver. So now my video card is "generic".

Driver for a monitor? Never needed one in my entire life. Ignorant is a bliss.

Anyway, after 15 years with Windows and only a week with OS X you couldn't pay me to use Vista.

You opinion. OS X won't even let me config my Logitech VX to do autscroll. I have google and lots of people are having the same issue.

[mickeyjuice]

"64-Bit Vista" too bad this one "component" renders the rest of them useless.

One of the dumbest posts we've seen for a while - congratulations.

[gary88]

I was a Windows user for about 8 years, and bought my first Mac last September (now previous gen MBP, 250gb drive, 4GB RAM). Needless to say I'm never buying another Windows machine ever again. Spaces/Expose is ridiculously handy, spotlight is wonderful ("search" on windows never found anything for me), and the build quality is on par with a swiss watch. Plus it runs just about silently (I had two Vaio notebooks before this which sounded like jumbo jets taking off).

In a couple of years I'll probably upgrade to a new 17" MBP (how they got an 8 hour battery life out of that is beyond me).

[kandyredcoi]

switched to mac 3 yrs ago, never looked back...my .02

[Tony-S]

In a couple of years I'll probably upgrade to a new 17" MBP (how they got an 8 hour battery life out of that is beyond me).

It's a battery with a computer attached to it. ;)

[Ethan]

I was a Windows user for about 8 years, and bought my first Mac last September (now previous gen MBP, 250gb drive, 4GB RAM). Needless to say I'm never buying another Windows machine ever again. Spaces/Expose is ridiculously handy, spotlight is wonderful ("search" on windows never found anything for me), and the build quality is on par with a swiss watch. Plus it runs just about silently (I had two Vaio notebooks before this which sounded like jumbo jets taking off).

In a couple of years I'll probably upgrade to a new 17" MBP (how they got an 8 hour battery life out of that is beyond me).

What was your last computer specs? It's funny how some people compare their older and lower specs computer with a new mac. Regarding your Vaio Notebooks, you didn't do your research and bought them. Do your homework before you buy anything, that was your fault.
If people listed reasons for switching to Mac really show their ignorant and lack of knowledge in windows.

[mickeyjuice]

I was a Windows user for about 8 years, and bought my first Mac last September (now previous gen MBP, 250gb drive, 4GB RAM). Needless to say I'm never buying another Windows machine ever again. Spaces/Expose is ridiculously handy, spotlight is wonderful ("search" on windows never found anything for me), and the build quality is on par with a swiss watch. Plus it runs just about silently (I had two Vaio notebooks before this which sounded like jumbo jets taking off).

OK, so old, dud hardware makes a new Mac, and OSX, better. Gotcha. That's compelling.

Who uses 'search' on windows, anyway? Use Launchy.

In a couple of years I'll probably upgrade to a new 17" MBP (how they got an 8 hour battery life out of that is beyond me).

They don't, they just lie about it like every laptop manufacturer.

[gary88]

What was your last computer specs? It's funny how some people compare their older and lower specs computer with a new mac. Regarding your Vaio Notebooks, you didn't do your research and bought them. Do your homework before you buy anything, that was your fault.
If people listed reasons for switching to Mac really show their ignorant and lack of knowledge in windows.

VGN-FS840/W, 1.73GHz Pentium M, 1.5GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and running Windows XP. I bought it about two years before I ever got into SLR photography, back then I just had a P&S and was happy with anything. I didn't use it for gaming or anything, just for web browsing and watching DVDs mostly.

Once I got serious about photography after I bought my first SLR, and eventually after I bought Photoshop, I realized how much I needed to upgrade. I was tired of Windows, so I went with a Mac. It does everything I need, and gives me far less headaches than all the Windows machines I've used. Literally not a single problem in the 8 months I've had it so far.

[Ethan]

VGN-FS840/W, 1.73GHz Pentium M, 1.5GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and running Windows XP. I bought it about two years before I ever got into SLR photography, back then I just had a P&S and was happy with anything. I didn't use it for gaming or anything, just for web browsing and watching DVDs mostly.

Once I got serious about photography after I bought my first SLR, and eventually after I bought Photoshop, I realized how much I needed to upgrade. I was tired of Windows, so I went with a Mac. It does everything I need, and gives me far less headaches than all the Windows machines I've used. Literally not a single problem in the 8 months I've had it so far.

Are you serious? Compare a Pentium M to Core2Duo? You are a genius my friend.

[gary88]

Are you serious? Compare a Pentium M to Core2Duo? You are a genius my friend.

...Hence I said why I needed to upgrade :rolleyes:

[mickeyjuice]

...Hence I said why I needed to upgrade :rolleyes:

But you also use it as a reason as to why Mac is better than Windows, which you're now admitting is ridiculous. Gotcha.

[gary88]

But you also use it as a reason as to why Mac is better than Windows, which you're now admitting is ridiculous. Gotcha.

I never said that was a reason why Mac is better than Windows. I mainly needed a better processor, and it just so happened to be in a Macintosh than I preferred over any Windows notebook.

Key word, preferred.

[Ethan]

I never said that was a reason why Mac is better than Windows. I mainly needed a better processor, and it just so happened to be in a Macintosh than I preferred over any Windows notebook.

Key word, preferred.

You didn't directly say it was the reason but how you word it implies it. The reason why you could not find anything on windows because you don't know how to search. That just showed you are ignorant and it's a shame that you had been using windows for eight years.

[Moppie]

Lets not call peope ignorant please.

You could very easily argue that the problem is the search functionality in XP is really bad, hard to use, and not obvious.
The problem is not user error, but UI error.

OS-X is superior to XP, but so it sould be. XP is very, very old and out dated now, while OS-X is still a current generation OS.


Lets not turn this into a "my daddy can beat up your daddy thread", and lets try and be a little bit rational about things please.

[Pearlallica]

Well, I mainly recommended the system from a price standpoint. For the photographer that is charging $10,000 for a wedding, a decked out Mac Pro is a no brainer. For the newcomer professional (myself), cost is an issue. One of Apple's new iMac are as followed:
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB memory
640GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

That's older technology, and for the same price you can build a tower with two to three times the memory, a better video card, a more affordable solid state drive, more affordable RAID configurations, and you have blue ray support. With Windows 7 on the horizon, I think things are getting better for PC users. I too have been using photoshop since V3 back in the 90s, I've owned Mac systems. A 64-bit environment has been the most liberating feeling I've ever experienced in computing. I recently sold a G5 system (the last of my Macs) and don't miss it a bit. I need a computer to be fast, to get the job done, so that I have more time with my family and less time watching progress bars and busy cursers.

[Tony-S]

Apple's new iMac are as followed:
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB memory
640GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

That's older technology, and for the same price you can build a tower with two to three times the memory, a better video card, a more affordable solid state drive, more affordable RAID configurations, and you have blue ray support.

You really can't compare an iMac to such a computer. There are other costs involved where the iMac would be better. This includes the engineering, enclosure, cost to operate (an iMac is about $70 a year in electricity while desktops are 3x that much), and the H-IPS panel that comes with those 24" iMacs. For some, these are important, while for others they're not.

[Pearlallica]

You really can't compare an iMac to such a computer. There are other costs involved where the iMac would be better. This includes the engineering, enclosure, cost to operate (an iMac is about $70 a year in electricity while desktops are 3x that much), and the H-IPS panel that comes with those 24" iMacs. For some, these are important, while for others they're not.

Excellent points. They're factors when listing out your pros and cons.

Perhaps I've become so narrow minded that my main interest is speed, speed, and more speed - even at the cost of a greater hydro bill. (my landlord can deal with that!)

[Village_Idiot]

You really can't compare an iMac to such a computer. There are other costs involved where the iMac would be better. This includes the engineering, enclosure, cost to operate (an iMac is about $70 a year in electricity while desktops are 3x that much), and the H-IPS panel that comes with those 24" iMacs. For some, these are important, while for others they're not.

Engineering? Still using C2D chips with 1066mhz FSB's when every current Intel desktop chip is running 1333mhz? Engineering/enclosure/cost to operate? A processor you can't upgrade, a monitor you can't upgrade, a GPU you can't upgrade, limited memory slots, a 2.5" HDD.

Once it's outdated, it's outdated and you can't upgrade unless you count selling it and buying a new AIO upgrading. So even though electricity would be cheaper, buying an entirely new computer when you could just purchase some new internals is would probably out weigh that energy cost.

[Tony-S]

Engineering? Still using C2D chips with 1066mhz FSB's when every current Intel desktop chip is running 1333mhz?

The iMacs and Minis have used notebook chipsets and processors since the transition to Intel. Thus its low operational cost, small footprint, low heat and silent operation. You buy a Windows desktop and you get persistent fan noise, heat and a big ugly box usually made of stamped steel. While having a nice aluminum enclosure with small logic board (smaller than a micro-ATX board) may not be necessary for everyone, they are inherently more expensive to manufacture.

Engineering/enclosure/cost to operate? A processor you can't upgrade, a monitor you can't upgrade, a GPU you can't upgrade, limited memory slots, a 2.5" HDD.

Apple doesn't build the iMac for photographers, it builds them for Joe Consumer, most of whom will never do these things regardless of the platform. Have you ever opened up an iMac? How about a Mini? The Mini is quite remarkable - it has no equivalent on the PC side for its compact stature and performance. The only close ones are the newest fad, the "nettops", but most of them are built on Atom processors that are substantially less performers than Core 2 Duos.

And by the way, the iMac has always shipped with 3.5" drives.

Once it's outdated, it's outdated...

The Penryn processor line is still contemporary. The i7 mobile chips will likely be considered for iMacs provided they do not compromise the "philosophy" of an iMac (silent, low-heat, energy efficient) and provided that Intel and nVidia settle their little integrated gpu war. Apple has clearly made it known that they plan to leverage OpenCL and right now Intel is doing everything it can to slow down nVidia (and by happenstance, ATI) because their integrated gpus don't support CUDA yet. This all happened when Apple announced the switch from Intel chipsets to the nVidia 9400m chipset.

...and you can't upgrade unless you count selling it and buying a new AIO upgrading. So even though electricity would be cheaper, buying an entirely new computer when you could just purchase some new internals is would probably out weigh that energy cost.

How much value do you put on silence? How about small footprint? Those are tangibles to many people, and no so important to others (as I've said repeatedly, even in this thread). While you or I may need more than an iMac, there are plenty of people out there for whom they are perfect, including some photographers. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be selling a ton of them.

[mikez]

This is more of a preference. I have used OSX (still using it) and I thought it's very tedious to use. You cant even close a browser unless you go to file quit or command q, mouse accuracy sucks, autoscroll sucks, and text is not as crisp as windows. Silence? AFAIK, dell and Hp are silence.

You buy a Windows desktop and you get persistent fan noise, heat and a big ugly box usually made of stamped steel. While having a nice aluminum enclosure with small logic board (smaller than a micro-ATX board) may not be necessary for everyone, they are inherently more expensive to manufacture.
What desktop did you have? While you pay more for the external look, windows user pay less for more performance. Not sure which one people would value more but performance is one of the priorities on my list.

[Tony-S]

What desktop did you have?

I have a home-built in an Antec Sonata III 500 enclosure that was touted as being one of the quietest enclosures available. It has three fans (cpu, power supply and enclosure) that run all the time. It's quite annoying. My iMac's fan has never come on in the three year's I've had it. My Mini's fan only came on when I used Aperture. I like silence.

While you pay more for the external look, windows user pay less for more performance.

You're not telling me something I don't already know.

Not sure which one people would value more but performance is one of the priorities on my list.

That's great. To each their own. But for many people other features are important, too.

[mikez]

I have a home-built in an Antec Sonata III 500 enclosure that was touted as being one of the quietest enclosures available. It has three fans (cpu, power supply and enclosure) that run all the time. It's quite annoying. My iMac's fan has never come on in the three year's I've had it. My Mini's fan only came on when I used Aperture. I like silence.
Uh... maybe because you are you using the stock fans? Try to get some Scythe or Yate Loons with low DBA. Most of the time when people switched to Mac because they are clueless about windows, virus (kidding me? haven't gotten virus in years without an antivirus software), slow in time? (haven't formatted my vista since I got it almost two years and still the same). Go ahead and spend $700+ (for a laptop specs with 2gb) on a mac mini with slow specs while windows user spend $<500 for superior specs.

[Tony-S]

Uh... maybe because you are you using the stock fans? Try to get some Scythe or Yate Loons with low DBA.

Zalman copper heat sink and fan for the cpu, two ball bearing fan for the enclosure. Can't change the PS fan - it's integral. The problem is the movement of the air, not the fans themselves. I don't want low DBA - I want no DBA.

Most of the time when people switched to Mac because they are clueless about windows, virus (kidding me? haven't gotten virus in years without an antivirus software), slow in time? (haven't formatted my vista since I got it almost two years and still the same).

Is this a tangent?

Go ahead and spend $700+ on a mac mini with slow specs while windows user spend $<500 for superior specs.

Yes, we've been through this many times here on the forums. All we need is another "comparison" of computers.

If all you want is speed to the exclusion of everything else, then I suppose a Win PC is for you.

[In2Photos]

I have a home-built in an Antec Sonata III 500 enclosure that was touted as being one of the quietest enclosures available. It has three fans (cpu, power supply and enclosure) that run all the time. It's quite annoying. My iMac's fan has never come on in the three year's I've had it. My Mini's fan only came on when I used Aperture. I like silence.

I don't think it is a fair comparison when one of your computers has never had the fan running and the other one has 3 fans, Tony. ;) How loud is the PC with all the fans off? :p

My recent build has a Cooler Master RC590 case with a Corsair 650 PSU, one 120mm fan on the heatsink, one 120mm fan on the front of the case, one 120mm fan on the back of the case, and one 120mm fan on the top of the case. I run the fans around 50% and my PC is DEAD silent. The only indication that it is on is the lights (and well, the screen ;)). The CPU idles at 25C as well.

I guess I paid for the good engineering you mentioned earlier, only I have a PC and an extra $1000 in my pocket. :p

[mikez]

Zalman copper heat sink and fan for the cpu, two ball bearing fan for the enclosure. Can't change the PS fan - it's integral. The problem is the movement of the air, not the fans themselves. I don't want low DBA - I want no DBA.
What? How did airflow get into the discussion? Don't want NO DBA? yeah ok...

If all you want is speed to the exclusion of everything else, then I suppose a Win PC is for you.


Everything else like the build quality?

I'm done with this thread, facts are there. Switch to mac if that's your preference or clueless about windows, have cash to blow, think it's more stable, think you are different, etc...

[Tony-S]

I don't think it is a fair comparison when one of your computers has never had the fan running and the other one has 3 fans, Tony. ;) How loud is the PC with all the fans off? :p

I could disconnect the cpu fan and and enclosure fan (but not the PS fan I don't think), but wouldn't that be dangerous for the cpu (Q6600 @3.2 gHz)? When I do video encoding from the 5Dii the cpu temp gets to the mid-60s C and has spiked to the mid 70s with h.264 encoding. I have the Zalman turned down to its minimum setting but it's still audible.

At what temp would the cpu suffer damage?

My recent build has a Cooler Master RC590 case with a Corsair 650 PSU, one 120mm fan on the heatsink, one 120mm fan on the front of the case, one 120mm fan on the back of the case, and one 120mm fan on the top of the case. I run the fans around 50% and my PC is DEAD silent. The only indication that it is on is the lights (and well, the screen ;)). The CPU idles at 25C as well.

You bought the fans separately? What are their models? What about Arctic Silver - is that real or just a gimmick? I'd be happy to upgrade my enclosure's cooling system if it could run silent and cool. It seems like the northbridge is a major source of heat, too (Asus P5K-E board). Any way to cool it better?

I guess I paid for the good engineering you mentioned earlier, only I have a PC and an extra $1000 in my pocket. :p

Don't forget that 24" iMac comes with an H-IPS panel!

[Ethan]

Don't forget that the 24" Imac uses mobile processor.

[Tony-S]

Don't forget that teh 24" Imac uses mobile processor.

Yeah, I know. Did you just jump in without reading my previous posts?

[Ethan]

Yeah, I know. Did you just jump in without reading my previous posts?

Why did you compare quietness with a desktop specs to mobile specs? Do I really need to explain this?

[In2Photos]

I could disconnect the cpu fan and and enclosure fan (but not the PS fan I don't think), but wouldn't that be dangerous for the cpu (Q6600 @3.2 gHz)? When I do video encoding from the 5Dii the cpu temp gets to the mid-60s C and has spiked to the mid 70s with h.264 encoding. I have the Zalman turned down to its minimum setting but it's still audible.

At what temp would the cpu suffer damage?

No, I wouldn't turn off the CPU fan. But you are running your Q6600 @3.2GHZ? How much are you overclocking your Macs? ;) I originally planned to run a Zalman, but was quickly told to not waste my money and use something better. I went with a Xigmatek Dark Knight and it has been great. If OCing I might even go bigger than the Xigmatek.



You bought the fans separately? What are their models? What about Arctic Silver - is that real or just a gimmick? I'd be happy to upgrade my enclosure's cooling system if it could run silent and cool. It seems like the northbridge is a major source of heat, too (Asus P5K-E board). Any way to cool it better?

Honestly I bought some $7 Xigmatek fans, nothing special. I used the thermal paste that came with the Dark Knight, but everything I have read about Arctic Silver has been positive, no snake oil there, so it would be well worht the few bucks a tube. My northbridge runs very hot as well. I don't think there is much you can do, but some run aftermarket heatsinks and drop temps by about 10C. I'm running stock.

Don't forget that 24" iMac comes with an H-IPS panel!
That $1000 savings included a 22" Dell S-IPS panel, the 2209WA, but was also comparing prices to a Mac Pro and no monitor. The iMAC would be less savings, but I have a much more upgradeable machine IMO.

[Tony-S]

Why did you compare quietness with a desktop specs to mobile specs? Do I really need to explain this?

As I have said many times in this thread and others, the iMacs and Minis are compromises because they are built on mobile chipsets and cpus. I'm not the one who made the initial comparison - I pointed out that making such comparisons is problematic because the iMac and Mini are rather unique in their builds. Apple has been building these "desktops" with notebook components for several years now. You will never get the speed from an iMac or Mini that you can get from a computer built on desktop processors for the same amount of money. But you do get a silent and energy efficient build in a nice aluminum enclosure. That's all.

And just so we're all clear on this, my desktop is a Q6600-based hackintosh. I understand the limitations of the iMac (my office computer) and Mini (now relegated as a media computer). If you want to compare an iMac to a Win PC, then it should be done with an All In One, such as Dell's new Studio One (http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/dell-studio-one-19/4505-3118_7-33637210.html?tag=mncol;txt). There is no mid-tower Mac (and I doubt there ever will be so long as Jobs is running the show), thus the flourishing hackintosh community.

[Tony-S]

No, I wouldn't turn off the CPU fan. But you are running your Q6600 @3.2GHZ? How much are you overclocking your Macs? ;)

Yeah, OC'ing Macs is no easy thing.

I originally planned to run a Zalman, but was quickly told to not waste my money and use something better. I went with a Xigmatek Dark Knight and it has been great. If OCing I might even go bigger than the Xigmatek.

Honestly I bought some $7 Xigmatek fans, nothing special. I used the thermal paste that came with the Dark Knight, but everything I have read about Arctic Silver has been positive, no snake oil there, so it would be well worht the few bucks a tube.

All right, I've got these in my shopping basket. I'll see how it goes. If no better, you owe me $75 in beer. ;)

[In2Photos]

All right, I've got these in my shopping basket. I'll see how it goes. If no better, you owe me $75 in beer. ;)
Sure thing. You pay for my trip out to Colorado though! :lol:

[Village_Idiot]

As far as engineering goes, the new unibody MBP computers, at least the one I have, can be made to over heat and shut down just by playing a game. I've never had that happen in my old 17" Dell clunker, but I that's what you get when you have a tiny, cool looking, 3/4" case.

It's very noisy too. Fans run a lot more and it's got a pretty poor cooling system.

I'm pretty sure I could get the fans to go over time on an iMac too. When you're browsing the internet and checking email, you don't get that problem though. But then again, if you're browsing the internet and checking email, I don't know why you'd spend over $1000 on a computer as opposed to $750.

[MaxxuM]

Engineering? Still using C2D chips with 1066mhz FSB's when every current Intel desktop chip is running 1333mhz? Engineering/enclosure/cost to operate? A processor you can't upgrade, a monitor you can't upgrade, a GPU you can't upgrade, limited memory slots, a 2.5" HDD.

Once it's outdated, it's outdated and you can't upgrade unless you count selling it and buying a new AIO upgrading. So even though electricity would be cheaper, buying an entirely new computer when you could just purchase some new internals is would probably out weigh that energy cost.

What all in one allows you to upgrade CPU and GPU and comes with an i7? Are there even any all-in-one's with quads in them yet? In any case, you are comparing two completely different products meant for two different applications. You can argue that you do not like them, but not that they are not a viable solution or even desired. HP and Sony seem to think Apple had the right idea and started putting out their own all-in-ones.

To counter your second argument (outdated). Though technically true, Apple's hold their value longer than PCs so upgrading is a bit less painful for a complete system upgrade. Now, if you said that PC's, due to their incremental upgrade ability (CPU only for instance) are more appealing - then that would be true to your personal choice.

[MaxxuM]

But then again, if you're browsing the internet and checking email, I don't know why you'd spend over $1000 on a computer as opposed to $750.

That is a highly argumentative statement. Why would someone buy a BMW/Audi over a Ford? Or an 18-Wheeler over a Winnebago? In the most strictest of terms they do the same thing, but in design they are no where near the same.

[Psychobiker]

I used to work in the equivalent of RadioShack...and the amount of people came in with 'broken vista' machines was unbelievable.

Now, I'm not a Windows person by choice...I'm not trying to be different, I just am far more at home under Linux. Installing Gimp... apt-get install gimp. Done.

Windows - track down the website, download, double click..click some more...click click...install. BSOD.
I'm not going to pay for something that breaks consistently. I pirated Windows for longer than I can imagine, but eventually just decided to be legit.

I'm switching to Mac just for a change, to try something new. It's an x86-based machine, and portable, and made of metal. I'm travelling, so I need it to be rugged...

L