Guidance

[myfins1]

Greetings folks. I have been lurking in this forum for a few months. I have waited to get a digital camera until I can get a dSLR. I will be receiving one for my birthday in a few weeks. I decided for me, the eos is best for me. I chose to go with that camera, and will hack the software. Likely going with the black body.

I am here seeking guidance. I love taking photos, but am totaly clueless on an SLR, though I have and still own an old AE-1 SLR. I took some good pictures with it, but I do not understand all of the settings, and how I need to adjust them for the best picture taking. So you might call me quite the newbie. After taking some great football (NFL) pictures at a game when I was younger, I have never been able to replicate photos using that camera again. I still don't know what settings are important and why. My goal with the dSLR is to read read read read. I understand it has a manual pretty informative. When I have something to read, I will. And continue to use this forum as well to aid in my development as a photographer.

Some questions:
Will a photography class at a college help me?
Is there an online tutorial to aid me in learning to use an SLR camera properly?

This is the first investments I intend to make:
Camera kit that comes with 18-55mm canon lens, some CF cards 1gig each $69 this week. I also intend to get a fisheye/macro lens (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4687&item=7504881998&rd=1) such as this. And a 2x converter such as this. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4687&item=7505619116&rd=1)and a 100-300 lens such as this one (http://www.tanchung.com/canon/ef100200mmf45a.htm) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30066&item=7505154190&rd=1) .

I am on a low budget for additional lenses. About 200-400 total I can possibly spend. That is the budget. Just for additional lenses, filters, macro, fisheye etc. I would like to get the best bang for my buck, but also don't want to waste money on something that will be useless for what I want or need for my photography.

I intend to shoot outdoors mainly. I would like to have a nice lens to capture sports with. I go to some NFL games and MLB games. I would like to be in 2nd level of a stadium, and get some good closeups of players in action, including throwing and catching. That is the main reason I wanted a camera. Additionally I will be shooting nature, bugs, anything that catches my eye. As well as general purpose family photos and such.

I understand I can rent lenses and may be a good option for me. What should I focus my money on first? I would really be interested in a 2x converter to double those big lenses. I can't drop a big chunk on the 100-300 for a NICE one. My buddy does have a tamaron 100-300 I could burrow based on the advice I get here. Am I going to need any filters right off the bat?

I will have about 3 weeks worth of practice before I have a real opportunity to shoot some once in a lifetime pictures. My buddy is a producer, and his company covers the Colonial golf tournament. He and I will have media credentials to go to this event. This will put me in a great position to obtain some awesome photos. I appreciate everyone's input here. I have not commited to anything, except the camera. A nicer one is just not in the cards right now, as I am enrolling in school to be a pharmacist. SO my money is kinda limited.

Marcus

[mbze430]

I recommend classes to anyone. I took my first class in my junior year in highschool, and never looked back. And study photography, and photojournalism in my college year so for kicks.

I usually suggest that you at least get your self a single FAST prime along with the kit lens, and you will be fine. Fisheye/Macro will grow, but don't need them immediately. for a person with a limited budget, you can always get dioptric lenses and extension tubes.

For the type of shooting you are doing, you will need a long lens, with a monopod or tripod if room allows such.

[myfins1]

I usually suggest that you at least get your self a single FAST prime along with the kit lens, and you will be fine. Fisheye/Macro will grow, but don't need them immediately. for a person with a limited budget, you can always get dioptric lenses and extension tubes.

What constitutes a Prime? What are dioptric lenses and extension tubes?

Sorry to seem so uneducated! I am!

Marcus

[robertwgross]

I would recommend a basic photography class, perhaps taught at a local community college or adult education center. At a minimum, it ought to teach you the fundamentals of how to get a decent exposure setting.

A few such classes teach traditional photography, and they want you to use a 35mm film camera. Other classes teach digital photography, so more is automated in the camera, and they teach some aspects of editing the image in a computer.

---Bob Gross---

[Kennymc]

STOP!!! Don't rush in to buying equipment until you understand what it does...
That 100-300 lens you were looking at might seem good but its fastest aperture is f/5.6 which means the shutter speeds are going to be slow even at the 100mm end... Autofocus struggles at anything over f/5.6 so you might have to manually focus at the f/6.7 (300mm) end... If you put that 2X Teleconverter on it probably won't autofocus at all because you will lose 2 stops of light making it a f/11- f/13 lens and you will struggle to get sharp images with the very slow shutter speeds you would have to use...
Prime lenses are of a fixed focal length like the 50mm f/1.8...
Extension tubes fit between the lens and the camera to increase magnification...
Dioptric lenses are actually filters that screw in the filter thread of the lens and come in various magnifications factors like +1, +2 and +4 etc...
Don't be in a rush to spend your hard earned/saved cash just so you can get out there and take photographs, think it through... Will the gear you buy be any good as your interest grows... I'm afraid the stuff you have linked to would soon be outgrown due to its shortcomings so PLEASE think and ask more questions before you spend...

[ron chappel]

Having used a many cheap telezoom lenses i can give some usefull advice there.
First of all,definitely avoid that canon 100-200/4.5A -it is not very usefull at all.
The 100-300 lens you showed may be good enough but i can't say for sure as i haven't use that model.

The cheapest telezoom i've used that gives OK'ish results is the sigma 100-300 DL
like this one-
Here are some example pics taken on a 300D
http://members.dodo.net.au/~l8r_ron/index_6.html (+ the next page)

However if you can afford abit more,go for the canon 75-300,it's abit better all round.
Don't be afraid to buy secondhand

Those add on wide/fisheye adapters are quite usefull for having fun with.They are actually more versatile than a proper fisheye lens because,when fited to a zoom,you can use them at full coverage or for as a circular fisheye.
Don't be expecting to use it as a substitute for a wide angle lens for landscape use though! The image quality they give is nowhere near good enough for that
Here is an example pic from a very similar adapter (also a 0.42 type but a diff brand).Notice the strong blur towards the edges-the titanium brand one will give abit better reults to this i'm sure.
http://members.dodo.net.au/~l8r_ron/pages/lens%20examples%2Csarah-%20cheap%20fisheye%20converter%20%5B68k%5D.html


As for learning about what all the controls do-I too heartilly recommend some sort of class:)
If you can't do that,study what aperture and shutter speed can do to a photo and learn how they are interchangable-(see the next sentence)
Learn about stops- light ,shutter speeds,apertures,ISO's and brightness range are all measured in stops
There are lots of primers online. photo.net is a great learning site-the one that comes instantly to mind

[PhotosGuy]

A class by a good instructor who is a pro & shoots every day might be excellent. One from someone who doesn't know anything beyond what they learned in class might be only average.
Read. Shoot a lot, & learn.
If you have a pro in your area, offer to sweep floors, carry crap, etc for free on one of his shoot days for the chance to see how he works. ;)

Take a look at these free resources:
The Canon Art of Photography Archive
http://www.camera.canon.com.my/archive/photography.htm

Canon EOS Beginners’ FAQ
http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/

A SHORT COURSE IN CHOOSING A DIGITAL CAMERA - "THE digital photography resource for over 4,000,000 visitors a year."
It takes you around and through the digital camera so you know how it works and what its features are used for.
http://www.shortcourses.com/choosing/contents.htm
Short Course for the Digital Rebel-300D.
http://www.shortcourses.com/bookstore/canon/book_canonrebel.htm

Beginners Guide to Photography: Short, easy articles for the absolute beginner.Just the basics to get you up and shooting.
http://www.photonhead.com/beginners

Virtual Interactive Camera: The Flash-based Virtual Camera gives users hands-on experience operating an Single Lens Reflex (SLR) camera.
Four tutorials explain focusing, aperture, shutter speed and exposure.
http://www.camerasinteractive.com/index.php

Jodies Coston's Free Online Photography Course
http://www.morguefile.com/archive/classroom.php
Lesson 1: Composition And Impact - It's A Beautiful Photograph, But Do You Know WHY It's Beautiful?
Lesson 2: Aperture And Shutter Speed - How They Work Together.
Lesson 3: The lens - choosing camera optics.
Lesson 4: ISO, Grain, Transparency vs. Negative, Specialty Films
Lesson 5: Fun Effects - Camera Filters, Soft Focus, Zooming And Panning
Lesson 6: Landscape, Nature and Travel Photography
Lesson 7: Portraits And Studio Lighting
Lesson 8: Studio Lighting - Still Life and Product Photography
Lesson 9: Tying It All Together
Lesson 10: Special Requests

Digital Photography - The Textbook
http://209.196.177.41/

Lotsa links - Your Personal Guide to Digital Photography
http://www.basic-digital-photography.com/

Adobe Whitepaper - Digital photography workflow
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro.html

Adobe digital photography white papers and primers
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html

"Introduction to Color Spaces" w/image
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm

[mkh]

Kennymc gave you some good advice.

If you like to read check out Canon's website for the camera you want to buy. You can ussally find electronic versions of the manuals in the downloads section. That should give you something to read while you follow Kenny's advice.

[Roach711]

Photosguy - Great links!

[myfins1]

Thanks for all of your information. I will be checking out each of those sites linked to in the coming weekend since I am off. I really won't have too much time to go work with a pro, though it would be invaluable. I think I am going to take this slow right now, and not make a purchase of any accessories/lenses right off. I will stick to some CF cards and that is it. I have no problem buying second hand products. I watch the marketplace here as well as eBay. But I don't want to jump into anything to soon and make a mistake. I know I can rent equipment if I need to. As well as burrow my friends 100-300 tamaron. I will find the model he has so I can look up the specs and share with you wise folks, for opinions on that lens.

I would much rather continue to save my money for the right equipment and buy it once. I am starting to understand the differences in lenses. Though I am no expert. The lower the Fstop the better, correct? How much would a good lens in the 100-300 range cost new or used? Doesn't have to be top of the line, but want to take good pictures.

In reference to extension tubes. Is that the same as the 2x lens, hence doubling the magnification of that lens? It goes between the body and the lens. Or are those two different beasts? Dioptric lenses: what specs would I look for? I am really adamant about getting a nice 100-300 but would like something to double that lens magnification. Would it be best to use a dioptric lens to accomplish this, or extension tubes, or teleconverter. Which is best to accomplish this. I heard someone reccomend the cannon 100-300 which I may do. But what would be a good model to look for, for the doubling the size of the lens. What kind of specs are best to look for in that device? How much am I looking to spend on it (new or used)? Also, what is the going price for a cannon 100-300 (new or used)?

I am sorry to ask so many questions, but everyone that has offered guidance thus far has given me lots to consider. And I thank everyone for that. Please keep the great information rolling. I appreciate you mulling over my requests and offering insight to help me make wise purchases. I understand the 300d might get upgraded but I would like to have some good lenses that will go along with the upgrades. Thanks for all of your wisdom you are offering.

Marcus

[Kennymc]

Extension tubes and dioptric lenses/filters are for macro work only, they do not double the length of the lens but make very close things appear larger... A 2x teleconverter does multiply the focal length of the lens...

[ron chappel]

The tamron of your friends may be pretty good.There aren't many of them around so finding usefull comparisons is difficult.Some on this forum have tamron zooms which they give good comments.
Of the lenses i've used i'd recommend the following-

The cheap option-
sigma 100-300 DL. New us$120, 2nd hand us$90?


The basic option-get at least this if you can afford it-
canon 75-300. new $190(usm),$160(non usm), 2nd hand $120+?
Here is an interesting discusion about this lens and it's limitations.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66019
If you want to save money i strongly recommend the non usm model as the focus speed on the usm model isn't much faster(they're both slow)

Your friends tamron should be somewhere near as good as the canon 75-300.Maybe better is some ways maybe worse in some ways

If you possibly can,go for the canon 100-300 usm or the sigma 70-300 Apo macro super II.
The 100-300 is a very nice ,well built lens with fast focus speed.It is sharper at the long end than the 75-300. new $280,2nd hand $190+
http://members.dodo.net.au/~l8r_ron/index_8.html

The sigma (make sure you get the apo version) i haven't used but it gets very good reviews and is obviously sharper than the canon 75-300.It features good macro ability -1:2 ratio
new $210,2nd hand $170?
http://www.pbase.com/argylemonkey/lens_comp

[nater]

I think you have somewhat conflicting desires here. You have a certain budget, somewhat limited, to begin your camera & lens collection. You also have a once-in-a-lifetime (or decade, or whatever) opportunity to shoot sports at the pro level.

I'm no expert, but here's my advice. (1) Wait to buy lenses until you've researched enough to know what's a really good value and what will be most useful to you in the long run. (2) In the meantime, rent a top of the line lens to use at the golf tourney. Something in the ballpark of a 300mm with a 2.8 aperture. Check out sportsshooter.com. You won't be able to post messages there, but you can search the message archives to see what the pros are using for golf shots. They also have threads about golf etiquette -- useful stuff to know if you don't want Tiger Woods' caddy to throw your camera in the lake! ;)

Good luck!

[rdenney]

...I am on a low budget for additional lenses. About 200-400 total I can possibly spend. That is the budget. Just for additional lenses, filters, macro, fisheye etc. I would like to get the best bang for my buck, but also don't want to waste money on something that will be useless for what I want or need for my photography.

I intend to shoot outdoors mainly. I would like to have a nice lens to capture sports with. I go to some NFL games and MLB games. I would like to be in 2nd level of a stadium, and get some good closeups of players in action, including throwing and catching. That is the main reason I wanted a camera. Additionally I will be shooting nature, bugs, anything that catches my eye. As well as general purpose family photos and such.


Yes, a photography course in a college, community college, or even an adult class put on by a camera store would help you tremendously. It would not be possible to explain in this forum in enough detail what all the settings mean and how you should use them.

You have provided some high-dollar requirements for your low-dollar budget.

The add-on fisheye is a waste of money, in my opinion. You will not be happy with the image quality. If you really want a fisheye, the only cheap fisheye that provides reasonable image quality is a Russian-made Zenitar 16mm fisheye, available from Kiev Camera for about $150. There are better fisheye lenses than this one, but will require more money. This one is good enough for me, though, for those occasions when I need a fisheye.

Shooting sports from the upper deck would require more lens than they'll let you carry into the stadium. The guys on the sidelines are using 400 and 600mm lenses, after all. But they want the beads of sweat on the center's forearms right before he hikes the ball. As far as I'm concerned, THE nature and amateur sports lens is the Canon 100-400L with image stabilization. It's a heck of a deal at several times your entire lens budget. Sports pros would think it not really long enough or fast enough for their needs.

Now that I've brought you down to earth, go get a Phoenix/Cosina 100-400 zoom lens. Image quality is so-so, and it vignettes noticeably, but you can probably fit it into your budget, and it will be fun to play with until you can afford something better. I actually own one of these, and it's not all that bad for someone just starting out who wants a long lens. I have gotten reasonable images from it. But it still won't really be long enough to get real close from the upper deck--for that you'd need 1000 or 1200 at least (and you can add a couple of digits to your budget).

You'll have a hole in your collection between 55 and 100, but that will encourage you to save up for a 70-200/4L to be your first really good lens.

Spend the rest of your money on a good tripod and a good monopod. Both are a must if you are going to shoot with long lenses.

Those two lenses, plus the kit lens, should do what you want.

So, let's see...I think I've spent about $700 of your money, buying at pretty much the bottom end of the market, but buying stuff that at least works. If that's still too much, save the fisheye for later.

Until you learn more, put the camera on P.

Rick "who would never recommend the picture modes, even for a beginner" Denney