Printing from 20D - NO way :(

[ricphoto]

I've been investigating the concept of having my images from the 20D blown up to A3 size and am NOT impressed.

To start with, I am a Pro user and have had no hassles from the magazines I supply automotive features to - they love the 20D images and reckon they can get Double Page spreads and that's from the kit EF-S lens too.

But I dabble in landscapes and am finding that where an image has an 'intesnity' of detail, the 20D cannot deliver to the same standard as 50ASA Velvia in medium format.

Some of my pix are on the landscape thread under 'Ancient Aussie Landscape' and trying to have some of these enlarged to A3 is impossile.

OK, look, I shoot in RAW and then use either the Canon software or Pixmantic Raw Shooter to create TIFs - the TIFs then get taken to the printer or Pro Photo Lab.

The printer I tried didn't really know what he was doing and the resulting print looked like something the neighbour's dog would leave in my front garden !!

I then spent a morning with the Pro photo lab who are amongst the best digital imagers in Western Australia ... we tried to enlarge one image but it just wouldn't go the distance, with terrible 'softness' and even pixelation starting to come through.

Camera settings are L / RAW, ALWAYS on a tripod, always check focus and depth of field, I have custom set Parameter 2 for just a bit more stauration, but NO sharpening in the camera.

Opinions welcome please !

[Bsmooth]

I am a bit of a novice,but from what I've read and understanding of RAW images,the parameter settings don't make any diffrence in RAW images at all.I've only had my 20D for a few weeks and i would have to agree about the softness of images.It would seem quite a bit of sharpening is necessary on most If not all images shot in RAW.Not only at the end of the workflow,but some would even say at 2 or 3 different times during the processing of your images.

[tim]

Why would you expect a 20D using the cheap kit lens to have as much detail as a medium format film camera? That thing probably has the equilivent of about 40MP+(guessing), compared with 8MP on the 20D . The 1Ds Mk II at 16MP is mean to be about equal to 35mm film, it'll be a while before digital catches up with medium format. It'll probably be even long before the colors on digital compare with high quality film too. I think you're expecting too much.

Personally i've blown up images from a 300D (6MP) to A1 size. If you stand 1 meter or more away, which you really have to do to see the entire picture, it looks pretty good. At 2 meters, it looks great. Would medium format be better? Of course!

FYI when you shoot RAW it records sensor data and applies no changes, so your saturation and sharpening settings are being ignored. If you don't manully sharpen your 20D images they'll look horrible in print. If you shoot RAW + JPG the settings are applied to the JPG. Did you sharpen the pics from the 20D before you printed them?

[nosquare2003]

tim is right. Even the 135 film format cannot compete with the MF for details. How can a 20D be expected to do so?

[ricphoto]

I guess I kinda' knew all this, but have had to learn it for myself :)
The 20D is brilliant for magazine work and will continue in that role, but all those 'know-it-alls' out there who have told me medium format is dead, well, they don't know what they're talking about.

It's a great time-saver to be able to just whack the 20D images onto a CD and send them to a magazine even unprocessed (cause the art department prefer to do the fiddling), but it's also a fantastic feeling to spend 10 minutes studying the detail of a medium format tranny with a Lupe.

Guess I'm caught between the old and the new !!

[SimonBl]

I've been investigating the concept of having my images from the 20D blown up to A3 size and am NOT impressed.
...

But I dabble in landscapes and am finding that where an image has an 'intesnity' of detail, the 20D cannot deliver to the same standard as 50ASA Velvia in medium format.
...

I then spent a morning with the Pro photo lab who are amongst the best digital imagers in Western Australia ... we tried to enlarge one image but it just wouldn't go the distance, with terrible 'softness' and even pixelation starting to come through.


Hi there, fellow Perthite. I guess it really boils down to what your standards are. I have to 20"x30" enlargements from a 5mp camera and I am more than happy with the quality (except for a burnt out sky issue) and am expecting even better from my first enlargement from the 20D.

I don't expect to have the same (or even similar) results to a medium format camera, but maybe that's ignorance :lol:

Anyway, enjoy what you have and maybe not be so self-critical?

Regards,

Simon....

[ricphoto]

I'd be real curious to know where you are getting printing done ?
I've been using Mirage in Subiaco for near on 15 years now and they're really into the digital in a big way now, but still retaining all the die hard film clientele.

I do enjoy the 20D and as I've indicated it's made my regular everyday workload more enjoyable and profitible.
In my game working for magazines it has totally transformed my working life.

I guess I just had some expectations for blow ups that were unrealistic .... so now having shelled out at Plaza cameras in January for the 20D, it's time to find $600 or $700 and dive into the Quoka for that back up Mamiya as my original 'Mammy' is kinda' geting on a bit.

Then I gotta' find several grand for L glass, my 420EX shat itself 3 days before I bought the 20D and was just 2 months out of warranty ...

Guess I gotta' work harder and put in some overtime !!

[D Boone]

I have blown up a drebel print to 20x30 and I am pretty happy with the quality. If you are more than a foot away from it the pixels blend really well. On closer examination the details are pretty pixelated, but like I said, *close examination*.... I am waiting for the 20d's next incarnation for my upgrade I think. It has been my experience however that my drebel's images are better and sharper than my film images scanned at a high resolution. I also never invested in high end film and processing though.

[Jonny]

I am pretty new to digital photography too but i think i am right in saying that software such as Genuine Fractals with upsize your images with may give them better results at the lab. try it.

http://genuinefractals.com/products/gf/overview.php

[SimonBl]

For Ricphoto:

I get them done by Perth Camera House in Hay Street Mall, but I know they send them off to a lab as the Frontier can't handle that size. For the life of me, I can't remember their name but I don't think it's Mirage. I've also had several pano's printed by them (2x to a sheet @ 20"x30") and they look brilliant too. Don't get me wrong, close-up you can see the pixelation, but at several metres, they look fine.

To be honest, I suspect it's a difference in expectations rather than the labs' fault.

I wish I had the luxury of earning overtime nowadays, but the best I can look forward to is cashing in some of my outstanding leave :cool:

Cheers,

Simon....

[ssim]

I recently enlarged two of my 1DMKII images to 20X30. I have been shooting for a long time and have used medium format at well. These prints were as good as any medium format shot that I had ever taken that large. There several contributing factors, I have found if the image has alot of highlights in it and any of them are even slightly blown the printer likley will have trouble going large. Your post processing has to be bang on. Now for the most important one in my opinion, you have to find a lab that is good. I tried several "pro" labs that charge too much because they labelled themselves as serving the pro market but did an absolute crap job on my stuff. I have finally found a lab that turns out amazing stuff off of my work. I am not purporting that one medium is better than the other. If I had an image that I knew ahead of time that I was going to enlarge to 30X40 I would shoot it in booth mediums as a safety measure.

There are alot of people that are moving away from medium format to digital. Many of these are doing it because of the cost savings in the end. In the end though the true pro will know when to shoot medium versus digital.

[PhotosGuy]

It's a great time-saver to be able to just whack the 20D images onto a CD and send them to a magazine even unprocessed (cause the art department prefer to do the fiddling) Great workflow & a time saver. But, as has been said, when YOU are going to print, then you have to become the fiddler! ;-)

[Kostyanych]

Well, sorry for off-topic but...
Could you tell me if there are any good labs somewhere in Australia?

I am going to try http://www.streetsimaging.com.au for 10 in x 15 in prints from my 20D soon.