Need Help Choosing a New Laptop

[disorder]

First off, I am currently using an Asus Z70va (Intel Pentium M 2.13Ghz, 2GB DDR2 RAM, ATI Radeon x700). Four years ago, this laptop was superb, but now I struggle to run LR2. It takes my computer MINUTES to export raw files (5DII); oh, and forget using any of the slider bars!

Okay, now I hate to do this to guys, as I have read several threads that just spiral out of control into the Mac vs PC debate. Let's just keep these civilized as I am completely open minded to either. I am considering the Sager NP8662/Clevo M860Tu or the 15.4 Macbook Pro. My budget is basically 2-2.5k.

I feel like I am shooting myself in the foot by buying a computer before the nehalem goes mobile (or even before the quad cores are more widely supported), but I need a new computer before I go back to school. This thing needs to last me at least for the next 4 years as I won't have the money (going 200k in debt is no joke) or time to upgrade.

Maybe I am not asking myself the right questions, so I leave it open to you guys to help me narrow it down. Thanks for your help in advance!

Bottom line- I need/want a computer that will run LR2 as fast as possible, and any of its future iterations ( I am fearful future LR's will require video card support, in which, the GTX260m will trounce the 9600GT). Other than that, I just use my computer for regular stuff (word processing, internet stuff, etc).

[MaxxuM]

Well, as for the Mac vs PC debate - which do you prefer? It's really that easy. If you have no preference then go try out a Mac and view some Mac video's on YouTube and see what people are saying about it. I like to use the car analogy; imagine you have a Ford and a Audi/BMW. Let's say the have the same horse power, interior space, have all the same buttons and gauges and both are of course cars. Yet, the Ford is 10-30% less depending on features (fully loaded vs base). So, why do people prefer Audi/BMW and why do they maintain higher customer satisfaction? The cynic would say that owners of Audi's or BMW's in an effort to avoid buyers regret would never bash their purchase. Whereas the optimist would say because they believe they are buying quality products. The truth likely lies somewhere between I think. Mac's take longer to build to be sure and there is most assuredly much more effort put into them (see the video here (http://www.apple.com/macbook/the-new-macbook/)) than most PC laptops. Apple captures users emotionally and aesthetically - PC's companies like to engender diversity and limitless options. There are good and bad things about both directions. Another difference is that PC's tend to push the hardware boundaries long before the software is there to support it (or stable on it). Apple takes it's time hardware wise and tries to push the software boundries. Again, there are good and bad things about eath methodology.

Back to the car analogy. Both can last a good while if taken care of (following the service guide) and both will break down if you ignore simple yet crucial maintenance. The Audi/BMW tends to have better service record for longevity but is more costly to repair while Ford's do break down a little more often but parts will be easier to find and oft will cost less. In the end - it's all about the ride.

With that said, currently the MacBook, MacBook Pro and Lenovo R & T series laptops are the top of the heap of recommened computers out there.

[disorder]

Okay, you have me leaning towards the MBP.

What do you guys think about SSD?

[GoneTomorrow]

Okay, you have me leaning towards the MBP.

What do you guys think about SSD?

They certainly save battery power, but you'll pay a hefty price. They're not worth what they're charging for them currently, unless money isn't an issue that is.

Whatever laptop you choose, just ensure that it's a dual or quad core, 64-bit OS and at least 4 GB of memory and you should have no problems processing files.

[disorder]

They certainly save battery power, but you'll pay a hefty price. They're not worth what they're charging for them currently, unless money isn't an issue that is.

Whatever laptop you choose, just ensure that it's a dual or quad core, 64-bit OS and at least 4 GB of memory and you should have no problems processing files.

I think if Apple came out with a quad core MBP, I'd have one already. I guess I can't sit and twiddle my thumbs waiting for new technology, as there will always be new technology (same with cameras).

[tim]

Does it really need to be a laptop?

[disorder]

Does it really need to be a laptop?

At this point, yes. As a student, I will need a laptop.

[GoneTomorrow]

I think if Apple came out with a quad core MBP, I'd have one already. I guess I can't sit and twiddle my thumbs waiting for new technology, as there will always be new technology (same with cameras).

They're definitely nice. I have a dual core (T7200) on my laptop with 2GB of memory and a quad core on my desktop (Q6700) with 8 GB of memory and the difference is like night and day.

That's the other thing about quad core mobile processors: they're very expensive compared to desktops since they're just coming out.

[MaxxuM]

Okay, you have me leaning towards the MBP.

What do you guys think about SSD?

SSD are going to come down in price in another few months if you want to wait. As far as Apple I love my MBP and wouldn't trade it for a PC laptop at twice the price - people would say sell it and buy two Mac's but PCs loose 1/2 there value going out the door :)

Take a look at Macmall and Amazon before buying plus reverb laptops at Apple.com

[dlpasco]

I just got a new 17" MBP. The display is incredible. I paired it with a 24" cinema display.

[geo1976]

I'm currently saving up for a laptop as well. As much as I would like to get a mac, a PC is more cost effective. I want to be able to run Photoshop and Lightroom on it. So I figure a big component to having those programs work quickly would be fast processors.

You guys mostly touched on the mac side with the responses. Anybody out there running those softwares, and perhaps others on a PC laptop?

Another quick question: How awkward is it editing images on a laptop?

[MaxxuM]

Another quick question: How awkward is it editing images on a laptop?

No different than on a desktop on my MBP 15", 2.5GHz & 4GB RAM - the key is a good mouse IMO. Using the track pad would be murder. The Logitech VX makes life much easier with its programmable buttons. Laptops however have one big drawback - speed. Mobile processors are not as powerful as thier desktop big brothers. Once I start editing images with large images and multiple layers I start wanting my Mac Pro. With video production (Final Cut Studio) I have to really cut down on fx and concentrate more on just slicing up the video for production on the Mac Pro. Laptops won't replace an artists professional desktop but may be adiquate for semi-pros not on a tight deadline and people that have to work on the road.

[disorder]

No different than on a desktop on my MBP 15", 2.5GHz & 4GB RAM - the key is a good mouse IMO. Using the track pad would be murder. The Logitech VX makes life much easier with its programmable buttons. Laptops however have one big drawback - speed. Mobile processors are not as powerful as thier desktop big brothers. Once I start editing images with large images and multiple layers I start wanting my Mac Pro. With video production (Final Cut Studio) I have to really cut down on fx and concentrate more on just slicing up the video for production on the Mac Pro. Laptops won't replace an artists professional desktop but may be adiquate for semi-pros not on a tight deadline and people that have to work on the road.

I have NO experience in video editing, but will the MBP be able to handle 5D MkII video files for editing? As I understand it, video editing will tax the GPU more so than the processor itself. I find it hard to believe that the MBP would out pace the newer PC's that handle the GTX 260M.

Of course, they are different platforms and I keep hearing how awesome Macs are for video editing...

Are there any benchmarks which directly compare macs and pc's, instead of having macs run windows in order to run software such as 3dmark.

I keep going back and forth. I wish I just had the money to buy both, and then choose.

[MaxxuM]

I have NO experience in video editing, but will the MBP be able to handle 5D MkII video files for editing? As I understand it, video editing will tax the GPU more so than the processor itself. I find it hard to believe that the MBP would out pace the newer PC's that handle the GTX 260M.

Of course, they are different platforms and I keep hearing how awesome Macs are for video editing...

Are there any benchmarks which directly compare macs and pc's, instead of having macs run windows in order to run software such as 3dmark.

I keep going back and forth. I wish I just had the money to buy both, and then choose.

It's very difficult to gauge performance on just pure numbers. For instance, OS X and Vista/XP are completely different OSes and some Mac's with dual processors actually out perform quad PC's in some tasks. PC laptops are less limited by hardware than Mac's and will often have the latest and greatest CPU and memory (though GPU's are almost a dead heat) - so it would be unfair to match some of these systems. At Geekbench, a popular user generated performance review site, Mac's make a good showing but do come under some of the biggest PC laptops. For a time the fastest Vista laptop was actually a Mac. There are thousands of benchmarks out there for Mac's vs PC's and to sum them up the MBP's are very capable machines that out power most, but will come in second best vs well outfitted (and usually expensive) PC laptops. I've seen Mac's play Crysis without much adoo (though not on all high settings) and that in itself says alot about a computer not directly meant for gaming. Bootcamp will satisfy most, but personally I don't game much. I play WoW sometimes and I play with all settings on max and don't see any ill effect nor dropped frames on my MBP.

Photo editing is smooth and a non-issue. Any modern laptop can run Photoshop CS4 without much effort. LR2 however can tax computers with slower hard drives so I would recommend a 7200RPM drive because there is alot of cacheing of thumbs and effects that need to get loaded up quickly.

You said you don't video edit; well, I do alot of video work and the MBP does better than most. Final Cut Studio is extremely taxing on the CPU as well as the GPU (Photoshop does use the GPU but not near as much as the CPU).

Really, the only reason to get a Mac is because you love the OS. The laptop is no slouch! It can keep up with the best [true] laptops but will fall behind the bigger systems (which cost just as much if not more than Apple's btw). You'll see cheaper systems, but look closely at the CPU's, motherboars and GPU's they use. Often, they will have CPUs and motherboars that are 2-3 years old and GPU's that share memory with the system. For instance, you'll see a PC laptop that states that it has a 2.4GHz CPU for $800 and then a MBP with a 2.4GHz CPU for $1,500 (just an example). Then you'll wonder why the heck you should plunk down so much more for the Mac. Well, in the fine print the PC has a T7700 and the Mac has a T8300 - the Mac will have newer parts, run cooler and be faster because the CPU is superior yet the same GHz.

[LostShootingStar]

Are there any benchmarks which directly compare macs and pc's, instead of having macs run windows in order to run software such as 3dmark.


This is fairly difficult to do and get a meaningful result. Macs and PCs run a very different software architecture. Macs might be better at some things than PC, where PC would be better in other areas. http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/2465/o09a0208gstn/POTNsmile.gif
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http://m08o1124znfu179.imageshacknow.info/img/3200/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif

[disorder]

It's very difficult to gauge performance on just pure numbers. For instance, OS X and Vista/XP are completely different OSes and some Mac's with dual processors actually out perform quad PC's in some tasks. PC laptops are less limited by hardware than Mac's and will often have the latest and greatest CPU and memory (though GPU's are almost a dead heat) - so it would be unfair to match some of these systems. At Geekbench, a popular user generated performance review site, Mac's make a good showing but do come under some of the biggest PC laptops. For a time the fastest Vista laptop was actually a Mac. There are thousands of benchmarks out there for Mac's vs PC's and to sum them up the MBP's are very capable machines that out power most, but will come in second best vs well outfitted (and usually expensive) PC laptops. I've seen Mac's play Crysis without much adoo (though not on all high settings) and that in itself says alot about a computer not directly meant for gaming. Bootcamp will satisfy most, but personally I don't game much. I play WoW sometimes and I play with all settings on max and don't see any ill effect nor dropped frames on my MBP.

Photo editing is smooth and a non-issue. Any modern laptop can run Photoshop CS4 without much effort. LR2 however can tax computers with slower hard drives so I would recommend a 7200RPM drive because there is alot of cacheing of thumbs and effects that need to get loaded up quickly.

You said you don't video edit; well, I do alot of video work and the MBP does better than most. Final Cut Studio is extremely taxing on the CPU as well as the GPU (Photoshop does use the GPU but not near as much as the CPU).

Really, the only reason to get a Mac is because you love the OS. The laptop is no slouch! It can keep up with the best [true] laptops but will fall behind the bigger systems (which cost just as much if not more than Apple's btw). You'll see cheaper systems, but look closely at the CPU's, motherboars and GPU's they use. Often, they will have CPUs and motherboars that are 2-3 years old and GPU's that share memory with the system. For instance, you'll see a PC laptop that states that it has a 2.4GHz CPU for $800 and then a MBP with a 2.4GHz CPU for $1,500 (just an example). Then you'll wonder why the heck you should plunk down so much more for the Mac. Well, in the fine print the PC has a T7700 and the Mac has a T8300 - the Mac will have newer parts, run cooler and be faster because the CPU is superior yet the same GHz.

Thank you for the very informed post, and it's exactly what to hear. I know you're a Mac user, but it was quite the objective position.

After doing some more soul searching, I think I will end up going with a MBP. I'll probably get the T9800, and later on upgrade to an SSD and 6GB ram, unless somehow 8 is magically supported later on.

This is fairly difficult to do and get a meaningful result. Macs and PCs run a very different software architecture. Macs might be better at some things than PC, where PC would be better in other areas.


Thanks for the response, I wanted to hear this as well.

SSD are going to come down in price in another few months if you want to wait. As far as Apple I love my MBP and wouldn't trade it for a PC laptop at twice the price - people would say sell it and buy two Mac's but PCs loose 1/2 there value going out the door

Take a look at Macmall and Amazon before buying plus reverb laptops at Apple.com

What are the disadvantages of going through Macmall/Amazon, as opposed to buying directly from apple?

[MaxxuM]

Macmall and Amazon will run sales and Amazon will give you a 30 day cash difference if the price drops (you really have to search on how to get your money but it's worth it). Usually, prices at Macmall and Amazon will be $50-$150 off Apple prices for the laptop range and if you have Amazon's Prime account two day shipping is free while 1day shipping is $3.99. Macmall and Amazon are both Apple certified stores. If you are a student you can get a 10% (something like that) off any Apple purchase so this may negate Amazon and Macmall's (or equal it).

Now, SSD's are pretty fast, a bit faster than Velociraptors - and the price is really out there. I think the OCZ 128GB SSD is around $500 right now - way to expensive for my taste. I personally wouldn't put anything smaller than a 128GB SSD in a laptop because that pretty much means you'll always have to have a secondary drive for photo and videos (like iTunes) and always having to hook up an external is a pain. I have an after market HDD that is 320GB @ 7200RPMs and it's pretty quick.

[Tony-S]

I have NO experience in video editing, but will the MBP be able to handle 5D MkII video files for editing? As I understand it, video editing will tax the GPU more so than the processor itself.

Video editing isn't a problem. I have Final Cut Express on my previous generation MacBook Pro (2.4 ghz) and it handles 5Dii video just fine. On Macs, video editing is a cpu task, not a gpu task. Only Motion and Color (in Final Cut Studio) use the gpu. I suspect even a MacBook could handle 5Dii video with little difficulty.

[disorder]

just put in an order for an MBP and should be here by the end of the week.

i'll update you all when i get it! now i need to get LR2 before it comes...

[disorder]

just received my MBP, and OSX is screwy... only because i am adjusting. having been a windows user for... forever, it's an interesting switch. i can't tell if it's good or bad yet.

[MaxxuM]

It will take some time to get used to. Get a logitech vx mouse (not the nano) - it's great for expose & spaces. Watch some videos on mac navigation too. Osx is faster than vista IMO.