Legal Question

[jharms1]

I'm at a volleyball tournament and there is a large company who has a booth set up and is selling pictures of the girls play. Parents have the ability to request that they come and shoot pictures of their games. I'm the parent of one of the volleyball players but I also sell sports photography pictures. One of the staff photographers came to a match that I was taking pictures of. I was taking pictures of both teams with the intent of passing my card to parents of the other team to enable them to purchase from me in addition to (or instead of) the company sponsoring the volleyball tournament. A representative from the photography company went to the other parents on the team and asked if I was with them. They said yes, of course.

With this background, am I legally allowed to shoot pictures of teams other than my own and sell pictures to their parents? I don't want to break any laws, but I'd also like to make a few bucks while I'm at this three day tournament.

On a side note, I went to the photo company booth and asked to talk with the mananger. They said he was out taking pictures. I left my name and number, but he hasn't called me back.

Any help on this would be appreciated.

[cory1848]

I would think you need to clear it with the league first. That other company is most likely under contract with the league if they have a booth set up. That contract also most likely prohibits any other photogs from selling photos at events they are working.

[Tigershark]

I would agree with Cory, in my contracts I have exclusive rights to tournaments I shoot so you would have been asked to stop shooting or leave. Why don't you approach the organizers and see if you can shoot the next one

[blackshadow]

I would agree with Cory, in my contracts I have exclusive rights to tournaments I shoot so you would have been asked to stop shooting or leave. Why don't you approach the organizers and see if you can shoot the next one

Any exclusive contract you have is not with any other photographer. If that photographer shoots they are able to sell. It would be up to the event organiser to enforce the contract you have with them - a contract between you and a party cannot be enforced on a third party.

[CatchingUp]

I guess I am fortunate living in a rural area and am basically the only one shooting the games here for our local teams. But I do it more for hobby and pleasure, posting shots on my site for the kids to download and print (4x6) if the so desire. I have also got tons of paid business as a result of doing this as well.

I just have mixed feelings with these 'legal issues' at 'public' events and restricting people from taking pictures and selling them.

Last year I was asked or 'contracted' to be the 'official' photographer for the TJRA (jr. rodeo assoc) and spent a ton of time covering and processing/posting thousands of shots to be sold. It really wasn't a profitable deal for me and was a good learning experience. There was someone else showing up at the events with some decent gear to shoot shots of her son and his friends. I was asked if I wanted her 'banned' from doing this, but as a parent and photographer- how can you ban someone from doing that?

I realize if she was (and I don't know that she was in fact doing this) hindering my sales, that it might be awkward, but still, it's a public event. I just don't like the idea of limiting what fans/parents/friends do with their own camera at such venues.

[Karl Johnston]

Legal rule #1: Do not ask for legal advice online

[DDCSD]

Legally they can't make you stop taking pictures or stop you from selling prints after the fact.

They can, however, ask you to leave for not doing what they ask you to do. If you don't leave, they can have the police come arrest you for trespassing.


Remember, if there is someone on site as the official photographer, they are likely paying the organization for the privilege of shooting the event.

[JasonBr]

Last year I was asked or 'contracted' to be the 'official' photographer for the TJRA (jr. rodeo assoc) and spent a ton of time covering and processing/posting thousands of shots to be sold. It really wasn't a profitable deal for me and was a good learning experience. There was someone else showing up at the events with some decent gear to shoot shots of her son and his friends. I was asked if I wanted her 'banned' from doing this, but as a parent and photographer- how can you ban someone from doing that?

I realize if she was (and I don't know that she was in fact doing this) hindering my sales, that it might be awkward, but still, it's a public event. I just don't like the idea of limiting what fans/parents/friends do with their own camera at such venues.


I really agree with this. I cannot stand when a school/venue/event, etc prohibits cameras...even to the parents of the participants, just because they have hired a photographer. Organizations need to realize that without the parents/kids they have no event. They're already using the parents/kids to make money, let the parents take pictures of their kids.

[MJPhotos24]

I guess I am fortunate living in a rural area and am basically the only one shooting the games here for our local teams. But I do it more for hobby and pleasure, posting shots on my site for the kids to download and print (4x6) if the so desire. I have also got tons of paid business as a result of doing this as well.

I just have mixed feelings with these 'legal issues' at 'public' events and restricting people from taking pictures and selling them.

Last year I was asked or 'contracted' to be the 'official' photographer for the TJRA (jr. rodeo assoc) and spent a ton of time covering and processing/posting thousands of shots to be sold. It really wasn't a profitable deal for me and was a good learning experience. There was someone else showing up at the events with some decent gear to shoot shots of her son and his friends. I was asked if I wanted her 'banned' from doing this, but as a parent and photographer- how can you ban someone from doing that?

I realize if she was (and I don't know that she was in fact doing this) hindering my sales, that it might be awkward, but still, it's a public event. I just don't like the idea of limiting what fans/parents/friends do with their own camera at such venues.

Problem is it's not a public event! Even an event in a public place can not be seen as public sometimes, so restrictions on who gets to shoot can be in place by the organization putting it on.

[MJPhotos24]

I really agree with this. I cannot stand when a school/venue/event, etc prohibits cameras...even to the parents of the participants, just because they have hired a photographer. Organizations need to realize that without the parents/kids they have no event. They're already using the parents/kids to make money, let the parents take pictures of their kids.

The kids are paying for the privilege to play, it's not a given right for them to play. Leagues take money to run, photography is just another way to get some money, or they just want to protect there rights as an organization, as well as the event is private, not public. They can restrict who takes images, it's there right to do that. Many organizations have tried rights grabs of those images from the people they allow to shoot which are insane as every photog should fight for there first amendment rights, read the coldplay thread about all that.

The without the kids there's no event argument kind of sucks. Without viewers there's no TV show, without fans there's no pro games, without fans there's no concerts. Every one of those events is making money and restricting what you can do with it because it's not your event, there's no difference in youth sports.

[JasonBr]

The kids are paying for the privilege to play, it's not a given right for them to play. Leagues take money to run, photography is just another way to get some money, or they just want to protect there rights as an organization, as well as the event is private, not public. They can restrict who takes images, it's there right to do that. Many organizations have tried rights grabs of those images from the people they allow to shoot which are insane as every photog should fight for there first amendment rights, read the coldplay thread about all that.

The without the kids there's no event argument kind of sucks. Without viewers there's no TV show, without fans there's no pro games, without fans there's no concerts. Every one of those events is making money and restricting what you can do with it because it's not your event, there's no difference in youth sports.

I understand where you're coming from with the tv shows, concerts, etc. I'm just saying its pretty low to tell parents that they can't take photos of their own kids playing sports/being in a play, etc.

[harroz]

oh my, someone else is shooting it, take a sandwich and enjoy it instead or if you really want to shoot go and find something someone isn't shooting, I'm sure you'd annoy less people and make more money.

[CatchingUp]

oh my, someone else is shooting it, take a sandwich and enjoy it instead or if you really want to shoot go and find something someone isn't shooting, I'm sure you'd annoy less people and make more money.

Nope. Not if it's my kid and I like taking pictures.
Look - if we're talking about a college level or pro level sporting event, well, so be it. The rules change drastically at that level regarding who gets in , who gets credentials, who can sell what, etc.

I think we are talking here about high school sports. Where do you draw the line on such absurdity? What about the local little league football or soccer teams that dot the landscapes around the world. If some hot shot photographer with a business card and web site shows up seeing potential $$ to be made works out some 'deal' with the league officers, are you suggesting that he should get exclusive rights to photograph and sell his pictures? To the point that parents or friends who happen to be hobbyist can't bring their pictures????? That's Nuts!

[DDCSD]

The OP stated he wanted to photograph both teams and sell photos to parents, not just take photos of their own child.

No one is saying that someone shouldn't be able to photograph their own child at an event. It is the handing out cards to everyone and selling photos part that is out of line.

[chris270]

The OP stated he wanted to photograph both teams and sell photos to parents, not just take photos of their own child.

No one is saying that someone shouldn't be able to photograph their own child at an event. It is the handing out cards to everyone and selling photos part that is out of line.

Agreed, taking pics of your kids is fine. It's the part of selling the pics from the game that is not allowed.

[bobbyz]

No one is saying that someone shouldn't be able to photograph their own child at an event. It is the handing out cards to everyone and selling photos part that is out of line.

Totally agree.

If I were selling pictures I would want to do it properly, not pass around cards and try to sell when there is an official photographer, with excludive contract or not.

[MJPhotos24]

I think we are talking here about high school sports. Where do you draw the line on such absurdity? What about the local little league football or soccer teams that dot the landscapes around the world. If some hot shot photographer with a business card and web site shows up seeing potential $$ to be made works out some 'deal' with the league officers, are you suggesting that he should get exclusive rights to photograph and sell his pictures? To the point that parents or friends who happen to be hobbyist can't bring their pictures????? That's Nuts!
There's a lot of leagues and high schools all over that disagree with you, it's there league and there rules on who they allow to shoot. If they want to put in that rule that's there right, a kid in the league is given the privilege to play and it can be taken away at any time. Don't like it don't play or have your kid play in the league or for the school. That's how a few leagues look at it, though most will still allow you to shoot your own kid and such, the whole passing out cards and that is a no-no when there's an exclusive.

College & Pro sports have done it for years and now high schools and youth leagues are following in there tracks on this. Most don't, and I'm not saying I agree with it - but they can do it and limit who they allow to shoot. We have one school about 45 mins away that not only doesn't let parents not take photos, they don't let parents in the game at all! The stands are empty when the teams play, no parents allowed to even watch!

[TheMissouriShooter]

Our local school district contracts with a photography company thats about 50 miles away and two counties away. Our County and City requires a business license to do business. This business has a contract with the school district and no business license. They take photographs, collect money & deliver prints within the city/county. The State Dept. of Revenue clearly states in the regulations that they are required to collect sales tax on the completed product in the city/county of sale.

I was just told I wouldn't be allowed to take photographs and the local baseball games. I'm licensed in the county and city. I collect sales tax at the local area rate. And I pay personal property school taxes every year in the amount of $6000.00 + Two vehicle, two boats, a home and airplane.

What pisses me off is this compant doesn't even have a business license. I'm not about to drop this issue with the school board. They the ( school district ) claim they can't allow me to photograph the game because they have a contact with this company. The agreement they have with tis company doesn't include me. It's a problem they have.

[DDCSD]

Our local school district contracts with a photography company thats about 50 miles away and two counties away. Our County and City requires a business license to do business. This business has a contract with the school district and no business license. They take photographs, collect money & deliver prints within the city/county. The State Dept. of Revenue clearly states in the regulations that they are required to collect sales tax on the completed product in the city/county of sale.

I was just told I wouldn't be allowed to take photographs and the local baseball games. I'm licensed in the county and city. I collect sales tax at the local area rate. And I pay personal property school taxes every year in the amount of $6000.00 + Two vehicle, two boats, a home and airplane.

What pisses me off is this compant doesn't even have a business license. I'm not about to drop this issue with the school board. They the ( school district ) claim they can't allow me to photograph the game because they have a contact with this company. The agreement they have with tis company doesn't include me. It's a problem they have.


I'd contact the Department of Revenue. I am sure they'd love to have a talk with that company, especially when state/county governments are as strapped for cash as they are right now.