New Business/what equipment is essential-what isnt?

[sk8ty]

my cousin and i are starting a photo business, we are looking to invest 8-10k. in gear.
We are unsure what computers most people are using, specs please!
Should we invest in better cameras, we are using a 30d and a 20d.
We are working on better glass, waterhousing.

The real question is where can we save money and where should we not look to save?
...and if you were to spend 8-10k on surf photography gear, what would you buy, or would you buy at all?....is renting an option?..greatly appreciate the help. thanks

[Palladium]

IMHO - By asking "What equipment is essential" tell me you not really ready to open a business, that being said:

surf equiptment - being exposed to the sand / sea / salt water, I would only look at well used bargain stuff and you budget will barely get your feet wet.

500mm used that expect $3000 - $5000
Pro Bodies $1000 - $2000

[sk8ty]

yeah you are right, but we are only amateurs who love what we do and want to get started in the right direction...we have full time jobs and are not looking to replace them, but we feel there is a niche to fill, where we live.
most photogs I talked to started modest and as business grew so did the equipment.
we nervous about the production end and getting the pics to people etc... so thats why the question about computer gear.

[Palladium]

... so thats why the question about computer gear.

Whatever your currently using to edit now should be enough to get you started. Get yourself a dual backup solution (eg. ability to burn your images to disk & external hard drives, etc).

[Karl Johnston]

All due respect, save yourselves the trouble and don't open a business if you're not even half certain about what you're doing in the craft.

Ever see an apprentice open up an auto shop? It just doesn't work out. Learn the trade, then offer the skills.

Then there's the business of things...can either of you manage one? There's another question to consider, it's a full time job. Sometimes you may not get the time to shoot at all, depending on what you do and how you do it.

[TheGreatOg]

My first thought for surfing photography gear? A shark cage. *shudder* ;):lol:

[bobbyz]

500mm/600mm alone would cost $5000-$6000 no to mention cost of good support. Add pro bodies and you past your buget for outfit for a single person.

[Alleh]

Screw all the annoying “skip the business" crap if you have the money then it will probably be pretty damn fun to just go ahead and do it. Sure you might not actually start making any money for a year or so but if you want it bad enough you can do it.

Camera wise you have a couple choices. Either sell all your Canon gear and switch to Nikon and get a D700 (8 frames a second) or stay with canon and get a 50D (6.3 frames per second) the only step up for Canon from that is a 1D Mark III with 10 frames per second but they run just under 5k. The 5D Mark II is only 3.9 frames per second so it’s not very good for sports.

For canon lenses doing surfing photography (I haven’t shot surfing before just so you know) I would probably get a 70-200mm 2.8 skip the IS to save money and a 400mm F5.6L USM. As for wider lenses it will depend on what you do about water housing.

I don’t remember what Nikon lenses are available so I won’t get into it.

As for computers iMacs are great (probably the 24-inch 2.93GHz for a good balance between cost and speed). If you had to have something for on location work then you would need a Mac book pro.

I have heard good reviews about those $120 water bags for cameras but they don't give you very much control. The pro water cases are just under 2k.

[Karl Johnston]

Or, take a bit of time to think about things, explore the field, talk to other pros in your region and see how they do and identify a market for what you can do in the region you're in.

Rushing into things, especially business, is a sure way to spend a lot of money and exhaust what may actually be a good opportunity. Dropping money on gear at this point probably isn't the best of ideas. Research, research and then research some more and explore. Especially when you're looking at a 8-10 k budget (that's pretty low) it's important to explore.

From the look at your flickr, you're definitely going to need to catch up with some pros that specialize in surf photography and see how they do what they do, how they afford to do it, how their business is structured, how you can start in it. Perhaps learn from them as assistants. Definitely would need to learn some skills in how to manage (any) business.

But burning money on equipment is a sure way to ..burn money.. especially if you have no clue how to make money in your chosen field (surf photography).

I imagine surf photographers are sports photographers and stock photographers, off hand. Learn how they make money selling images. (there's a place to look; off you go now www.google.com)

I can't imagine there being much money in surf photography alone* so, like most photogs, it'd be a good idea to explore other avenues of services you can offer.
*if it isn't where you're being sponsored for or something similar.

[sk8ty]

feel like i offended a few people, thanks alleh, thats more what im talking about! i shouldn't have used the word business. we don't plan on making lots of money, just get good pics of people surfing, most people by us are shooting with crappy cameras and lenses getting crappy pics...

[Bubble]

you don't need expensive lens such as 600IS. 400mm f/5.6 with 50D would give you pretty good result. Start with that first then get big lens/body later.

Also, if you're thinking about "business", please get rid of your flick account. Have your own domain. Branding your business name is important.

Now, let say if you're willing to put a hole in your credit card for $10k, i would say get a Mark III and 600IS. ;)

[PhotosGuy]

Your 30D and a 20D, & surfing shots aren't all that bad. What lens did you use to shoot them?
Think about a 100-400 zoom to start if you don't have anything in that focal length.

[Alleh]

I wouldn't dump you flickr account just clean it up to just have your better work on it. I use mine all the time for somewhat more of how to do things for other photographers. It really helps my search engine ranks. You will however want to set up a cool, clean and trendy to surfing enthusiast website.

You have a couple different options available. One would be selling prints of suffers to the suffers themselves... this would be the entry level stuff. The other side will be selling images to magazines for editorial, surf companies for advertising and other sponsor companies like Red bull etc.

Once you start getting some good images and have a solid website portfolio build a contact list and start sending print and email promo material. If you are going to be covering a specific event contact anyone that might be interested and try and work out some deals before the event. There may be a specific surfer or something that a magazine is looking to write and article about and they will request images.

[Alleh]

If you love it you can go really far. Just over a year ago I was pretty much in your shoes. I had been shooting as a hobby for about 2 years. I had taken a few good shots but nothing amazing mostly just junk but I knew it was what I wanted to do so I just jumped right in. I personally think your surfing picture show a lot of promise. Just get out and put in the effort.

I think a lot of people with some decent talent just sit around expecting something to change for them. If you want something you take it. If you dedicate yourself to photography fully I would be pretty excited to see the work you are turning out in a year from now.

[harroz]

you a kiwi? if so Taras has just been going off the richter ;-) 6-8 ft around at graveyards and crystal brother!

my suggestion- use a crop camera(40 or 50d)get a 300mm or 400mm. and a 1.4x. defo get a water housing, I would get this more so than the long lenses, it differentiates you from the pack and brings you up in line with the pros. I think you can use a 10-22 in them, so get one of them, and a 24mm or wider.
computers- imac is a great solution there, they''ve just come out with new ones, fill it to the max with ram.

Alleh has pretty much nailed it up there, be aware though that you have to be REALLY good at it to make any money from it, and the payment from the mags isn't that great here in NZ, but I''m sure it is better out in the big world. Here i think a cover is $300.00 which is pathetic!

create a business plan that includes your photography growth, quality growth, marketing plan, contacts plan, etc.

go hard!

[sk8ty]

my flickr account isnt gooing to be used for business just fun...i surf, and am very familiar with the industry, surfers and photogs...i send in pics all the time, had one published, one other almost...but i definitely plan on selling personal pics to people that come to surf..we get a lot of visitors etc..I want to upgrade the gear which hopefully will upgrade the pics..

HARROZ, no im not a kiwi, but play rugby, played in wellington, senior firsts..bleed some BLACK! stayed with friends family who put me up while i played, will never forget the way i was treated..i always have an open invitation in NYC for anyone from aotearoa!!..anyone!

[sk8ty]

ive got the waterhousing lined up, just deciding what lens port to buy, i have a canon 15 mm 2.8 but heard the tokina 10-17 is better...the fisheyes are good for tube shots but what would be a good lens for a little pulled back 24-105? or something like that..

also think im going go with the 300mm f/4 with 1.4x tube..as opposed to the 70-200 2.8...does anyone disagree..if you do tell me why..im listening to you people!

computer- gonna go with the imac, i just stop by the apple store and they said the same thing, the new ones are beefed up

i was gonna use smugmug in the beginnning...i registered a domain name a month ago so i can customize it...does everyone like that idea?..its okay you can tell me

[sk8ty]

thank you everyone

[Alleh]

Personally I think smugmug looks unprofessional. Ugly fonts and what not. I have yet to see one customized to look nice. I would go with Photo shelter. The photoshelter pre made sites actually look pretty nice as well until you can hire someone to design one for you.

The reason for cleaning up your flickr is because once you are in business everything you do on the internet will be a representation of your business. You don't want clients to google you and find something less than professional.

[Alleh]

The 24-105 is pretty nice.

[Tom Reichner]

Camera wise you have a couple choices. Either sell all your Canon gear and switch to Nikon and get a D700 (8 frames a second) or stay with canon and get a 50D (6.3 frames per second) the only step up for Canon from that is a 1D Mark III with 10 frames per second but they run just under 5k. The 5D Mark II is only 3.9 frames per second so it’s not very good for sports.

As for computers iMacs are great (probably the 24-inch 2.93GHz for a good balance between cost and speed). If you had to have something for on location work then you would need a Mac book pro.


I haven't shot surf photography much at all, but I do shoot wildlife all the time, and I think the equipment needs are very similar. In both surf & wildlife, you're shooting quickly moving subjects in adverse conditions.

One body not mentioned may be the best, considering the budget. The 1Ds Mark 2. Currently, you can buy a very well cared for 1Ds II for about $2300. Sure, the frames per second may not be quite what the 50D is, but it's still better than the 5DII.

Another fair choice is the 1D Mark II. A very nice used 1D II now sells for around $1200. With this body you'll get 8.6 frames per second, which is right up there with the best. The only downside is the 8.1 mp sensor. But even so, well done, uncropped images taken with this body can be enlarged up to 16" by 20" and still look tack sharp & crystal clear.

Both of these 1D series bodies are up to the rugged task of performing in the ahrsh conditions you'll be using them in. I wouldn't use a 5D on surf photography. They're like toys compared to the 1D series, and need to be pampered.

-Tom

[sk8ty]

just an update...made some huge purchases...70-200mm 2.8L IS w/ 1.4x, Tokina 11-16 2.8 UWA and SPL waterhousing with 11-16 port...we are on our way...stay tuned, all we need now is some good surf! jb

[Alleh]

Nice man those water housings are so damn cool. I would love to have one just for fun.

[sk8ty]

Alleh, just checked your "sites"...your pics are nuts...nice work!....something to strive for!

[sk8ty]

we are up and running check the sitehttp://www.nycwatershots.com feedback welcome!

[Ook]

Looking good, the only thing that I noticed is that the subtitle on the Wordpress site is still at default, that should be taken out.

[eisurf]

Looks good sk8ty. I like what you're doing. I've got something similar going on. Just got in my SPL and did the first test run on Friday. It's SICK! Using a 10-22 port and lens on a 50D (love the 6 frames per second!). Doing my beach shots with a 100-400. Waiting on a 1.4x extender. You have some good ideas and I'm glad to see you running with it. Just have fun with it. Making a couple of bucks here and there never hurts either. :)

[Stealthy Ninja]

Get a helmet! Get in closer.

I looked at your site and my first thought (of the pics) was... I can hardly see the surfer... and he's (I'm assuming the surfer is a he) is just a silhouette.

This one is how close they should look:
http://nycwatershots.smugmug.com/photos/513940983_8duux-S-1.jpg

But maybe work on your PP a bit. Boost the blues/greens in the water (looks a bit dirty). Make sure you can see the faces/bodies of the surfers (you DO shoot RAW I hope. Get photoshop and learn it. :)

You can have a business no problem. Not all photography businesses are full time serious stuff. :)

Also get a 50D. The 16mp will let you crop a bit more and the fps is a definite bonus. You don't need a 1Dmkiii unless you start making some serious money...

[sk8ty]

Yeah it was a lot of swimming that day, a lot of current kept pulling me away from the rocks...Most of the guys surfing, can't surf too well, so it was hard to have them come to me and do something...but really it was my first real session with the equipment, and wanted to work out the kinks...definitely a lot of work, swimming, keeping the waterhousing lens covered in spit, cold water!...but the conditions were beautiful that day, which is unusual in NY, lighting is sometimes harsh, still a little high that day but the sky was clear and wind was right...learning, everyday, everyone of you guys has helped a ton...just the little details...website stuff, business stuff and photo stuff.
...and don't worry im not taken this crazy serious, but am serious about getting better images, and im having a lot of fun, its something that i know very well, surfing...things are taken off, just need more waves!

[Stealthy Ninja]

..just need more waves!

well... if you say so...
http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/bdy3.gif

Keep it up dude. Post some images here when you get them. :)