Quick question re: Master/Slave with off camera trigger

[peatoire]

Just bought another flash (430ex), I have a wireless trigger (cheap one off ebay but works very well). If I set the 580 to master and the 430 to slave with the trigger attached to the 580, will the 580 still trigger the 430 via the infa red?

[Titus213]

I'm confused - Why would you attach a trigger to the 580 if it is in master? To what end?

[peatoire]

I assumed I could leave the 580 as a master so the wireless trigger would set of the 580 and the 580 would then in turn trigger the 430 via infra red. This is my first toe in the water of off camera flash so please forgive my ignorance and point me in the right direction. Equipment is 2 x Speedlites and 1 x Remote trigger. looking to shoot with both speedlites off camera

[Titus213]

From what I understand (I've not tried it) if you put your 580EX II in manual mode you can use it to fire the 430EX wireless in this environment. The power levels on both flash units would be adjusted manually from the 580EX - ETTL would not be available. The radio receiver will only allow a 'fire' command to go to the flash not ETTL info.

I am assuming you have a transmitter and receiver as part of your radio system. Transmitter on the camera, receiver on the flash.

Note: Leo and I are reading this differently.....optical trigger? Hmmm

[PacAce]

From what I understand (I've not tried it) if you put your 580EX II in manual mode you can use it to fire the 430EX wireless in this environment. The power levels on both flash units would be adjusted manually from the 580EX - ETTL would not be available. The radio receiver will only allow a 'fire' command to go to the flash not ETTL info.

I am assuming you have a transmitter and receiver as part of your radio system. Transmitter on the camera, receiver on the flash.

Note: Leo and I are reading this differently.....optical trigger? Hmmm
Yeah, I misread the original post and deleted my reply. I don't know why I was thinking optical trigger. :confused: ???

[GH_ATL_GA]

When I'm working w/ speedlites (typically 3 - 4 580s) I have all mounted off-camera in Manual mode. The fill, which is usually closest to the camera position, is set to Master, which puts it automatically as group A & the other flashes are set as appropriate to A, B, or C. Normally I work with electronic triggers attached to all flashes, depending on the location particulars (ambient light, distances, etc.), but the slaves will be triggered under control of the Master's wireless optical link, conditions permitting.

In setting up the power for each flash, if need be I just remove the Master 580 from its mount (or use a spare 580) & position myself until a particular slave being set can see the Master. I'm essentially using a 580 Master to act as a remote control for lights not easily accessible, e.g. one mounted as a hair light. Once set the slaves retain the power setting even if they can't see the Master at the time the shutter is tripped. Since they're being triggered electronically, rather than relying on the optical link from the Master, there's no dependence on the Canon optical wireless link for triggering.

The above works fine with the flashes in Manual mode, but in ETTL mode the flashes DO need to be under the optical control of the Master throughout the entire exposure process.

I just performed a test using a 580 as Master, triggered electronically (Gadget Infinity 'studio' type receiver connected using a Flash Zebra hotshoe to 1/4 plug cable) & 420EX as slave with no electronic trigger. The 420 as slave fires ONLY in ETTL mode & its flash occurs almost a full second after the shutter is fired, obviously a useless situation. (I tried shutter speeds 1/125 to 1/30 w/ no noticeable change in behavior.)

Since I normally use only Manual mode & don't work much w/ ETTL, I also tested the behavior with ETTL using a 580 as slave (no electronic triggering of the 580 slave.) The 580 also exhibited a discernible delay in firing after the shutter fired. (In Manual mode everything works as expected.)

I did the ETTL tests in Ratio & non-Ratio mode & the results were the same with the delayed firing. Given the metering events that must be done to accomplish ratio lighting, especially, it's really not surprising things don't work well if the Master is not connected to the camera directly via hotshoe or ETTL off-camera shoe cord.

Since the 420 only works as a slave in ETTL mode, it wouldn't work in a setup where the Master is off-camera & triggered electronically. If the 430EX functions similarly you'll be limited to using it in situations where the Master is connected to the camera via hotshoe or the ETTL OC shoe cord. The 420, if triggered electronically, fires at full power; I'm not sure if the 430 behaves the same.

Hope this info helps somewhat.

George

[GH_ATL_GA]

I just found a 430EX manual & see that it does have manual mode capability (1/1 - 1/64 vs 1/1 - 1/128 for the 580EX), unlike the 420EX. It seems it will likely thus work similar to a 580 as slave when in Manual mode & having the Master triggered electronically & the slave triggered by the Master's wireless optical link. You'll just have to live without ETTL using this setup.

I keep asking myself why I don't just sell that 420EX.... :)

[peatoire]

Thanks for all the valuable input guys, I love this board for that wealth of information. I plan on getting used to manual setup from the off anyway so it looks like my radio trigger with one receiver should do the trick for my requirements.