HELP.....What Would You Do?

[stonyzmom]

I shot my son's baseball game today. It was very windy and the majority of the time I shot through the fence facing almost due west. I shot the game in Av, ISO 100, and the majority of my pictures were washed out. I had to do a lot of post processing. I'm using the XTi and the Canon 100-400mm L IS USM lens. What the hell am I supposed to do in those types of conditions? Polarizing lens filter? Go back to full auto? What, what, what? I'm tearing my hair out. Saturday's game will be sunny as well and they will be in all white uni's. I just may be insane after that game. I just got this lens and I know the potential it has to produce beautiful pictures so I want some quick tips to ensure that I get the most out of this lens.

Thanks for any and all advice.:cool:

[lauderdalems]

I sometimes have this same problem. I do two things. One I move around to different sides of the field and more important, I end up shooting manual. The bright white uniforms messes up the camera's meter system.

[khall]

For sure try manual, but at the last game when you shot in AV what aperture did you use.

[Howard Ting]

I shot my son's baseball game today. It was very windy and the majority of the time I shot through the fence facing almost due west. I shot the game in Av, ISO 100, and the majority of my pictures were washed out. I had to do a lot of post processing. I'm using the XTi and the Canon 100-400mm L IS USM lens. What the hell am I supposed to do in those types of conditions? Polarizing lens filter? Go back to full auto? What, what, what? I'm tearing my hair out. Saturday's game will be sunny as well and they will be in all white uni's. I just may be insane after that game. I just got this lens and I know the potential it has to produce beautiful pictures so I want some quick tips to ensure that I get the most out of this lens.

Thanks for any and all advice.:cool:

omg! don't shoot in auto

shoot manual. f-stop at the widest/lowest number. ISO 400 - 600. adjust the shutter speed accordingly:

1. Shoot one picture.
2. look at your histogram.
3. adjust shutter speed.
4. shoot one picture.
5. look at your histogram.
6. adjust shutter speed.
repeat untill it is right.

what is a histogram?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d6oWndayEE

so basically the guy in the video is trying to say that you want the histogram to look like a mountain with the peak a little right of center. (in the case of white uniform and sunny day.)


what does it tell you?
http://www.digitaldarrell.com/articles/Histogram/HistogramBasicTutorial.jpg


when something is washed out, an even called "clipping" can be seen in the histogram. the right side of the slope of the mountain is gone. this picture has be come over exposed, dial up the shutter speed.

http://sundaze.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/histogram_overexposed.jpg

hope this helps!!!!

btw you have a great glass for baseball. i wish i had the $$$ to get one. i envy you lol

[jcpoulin]

Shoot in manual! I usually meter off the dirt at home plate....it generally matches skin exposure. Some say to meter the green grass...works on a cloudy day. I shoot AV only if conditions are changing...sun in and out of clouds. Using histogram is helpful. Be aware of where your light is coming from...if there are bright spots to your eye...then there is to the lens! Many shoot through the fence.....be different, change angles, sitting, lying down. Or bring a small portable step ladder ( like a 3 step one) to change your angles......this seperates your picts from others who stand behind the fence and fire away! It also may help eliminate background issues.

[DDCSD]

Great advice above.

It would also be helpful to post a few images to show us what happened with your images.

Another thing that could have been an issue is reflections on the fence you were shooting through.

[stonyzmom]

Here are a few pictures. After sleeping on this last night, I do think the fence was an issue in a lot of my pictures......I could not get field access and it was driving me insane. At our home field I have areas where I can get a clear shot......this place - NOT AT ALL.

I think maybe what is bothering me the most is that the grass on this field is gorgeous.....I mean gorgeous. It's Northern California close to the coastal mountains and is just a beautiful field. The grass in my pictures came out too light. These are pictures I did not use by the way. Just throw-aways.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2360/canon.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3826/canon2.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3213/canon4.jpg

By the way.....shooting in manual scares me to death. I do like some sort of constancy with my settings. I picture manual to be changing things all the time. Am I wrong?

[Sledhed]

The fence was the problem. It happens to me when I have to shoot through the fence, a quick levels adjustment will fix it.

[Magic 24]

You're a mom!! What could be scarier then that? Go ahead and try Manual...and I concur with using Av in changing conditions...cloudy/shady days. Nothing is said about your metering mode - are you using Spot, Eval, or Part? Whatever one you are using - try a different one - and because you are trying (if you do) something new, take more then normal, to get a better evaluation of what works for you.

In my opinion - without seen the exif - you are shooting at a high/er f/stop yes? The pictures shown here are soft and I'm not sure of where you are focusing on. The outfielder should be blurred (bokeh) along with the 400 on the fence. The more the distance, the more the shake of the camera...located somewhere in this Forum.

Just remember - all the advice you get from us yahoos, may cause you to pull your hair out more then the camera shooting.

[Sledhed]

The outfielder should be blurred (bokeh) along with the 400 on the fence.

It's depth of field, not bokeh. Bokeh is the quality of the blur not the amount.

[stonyzmom]

You're a mom!! What could be scarier then that? Go ahead and try Manual...and I concur with using Av in changing conditions...cloudy/shady days. Nothing is said about your metering mode - are you using Spot, Eval, or Part? Whatever one you are using - try a different one - and because you are trying (if you do) something new, take more then normal, to get a better evaluation of what works for you.

In my opinion - without seen the exif - you are shooting at a high/er f/stop yes? The pictures shown here are soft and I'm not sure of where you are focusing on. The outfielder should be blurred (bokeh) along with the 400 on the fence. The more the distance, the more the shake of the camera...located somewhere in this Forum.

Just remember - all the advice you get from us yahoos, may cause you to pull your hair out more then the camera shooting.

Hahaaa! Being a mom is a scary thing.....I'm lucky I'm alive at this point. He's 20 and out of the house so I can finally take a breath. Ignorance is bliss, ya know?

Anyhoooo......the lowest I can go is f/4.5 with this lens and that's where this shot was taken. I was focusing on the ball and the pitcher and that's why the outfielder and fence are in focus.

I took some shots on M this morning and I think I can get the hang of that.....hopefully. Keep your fingers crossed. I still hate the all white uni's. I will do what someone else suggested....meter off the dirt and go from there.

Does anybody have a preference for types of metering? Center weighted, evaluative, etc?

White balance......any preference there? AWB, daylight or what on a sunny day?

AI Servo, one shot, AI Focus........any preference there?

[DDCSD]

I took some shots on M this morning and I think I can get the hang of that.....hopefully. Keep your fingers crossed. I still hate the all white uni's. I will do what someone else suggested....meter off the dirt and go from there.

Does anybody have a preference for types of metering? Center weighted, evaluative, etc?

White balance......any preference there? AWB, daylight or what on a sunny day?

AI Servo, one shot, AI Focus........any preference there?


You won't need to worry about the white uni's when using manual. As long as you set your exposure correctly, it will always be the same (assuming its not rolling clouds or getting late in the day).

Also, your metering mode won't matter in M once you get your exposure set.

Daylight should be fine for WB. If its cloudy, use the cloudy WB.

ANYTHING but AI focus!!! ;) But seriously, I use AI Servo 99.9% of the time, but I use the * button for focusing so I can stop the camera from attempting to focus anytime I want to. This is something you should look into, but I'm not sure if you want to overwhelm yourself trying to get used to two big technique changes in the same game.

[clarence]

Same here... I use AI-SERVO with * button for focus... much easier than half-shutter prefocus.


shooting in manual scares me to death. I do like some sort of constancy with my settings. I picture manual to be changing things all the time. Am I wrong?

If you're scared of M, then take a few practice shots before the game in various modes, chimp (look at the pictures on the viewfinder), then use those exposure settings (ISO, shutter speed, and aperture) as your starting point in Manual mode.

But really, shooting in M provides more consistency than auto modes... you don't have to worry about auto-exposure getting thrown by the scene... overexposing due to black uniforms or underexposing due to big skies.

You know you'll want wide-open apertures most the time, and you know you want fast shutter speeds for sports, so there's not that much more to adjust in Manual anyways.

[BenJohnson]

Your lens has a variable max aperture. If you shoot manual you do NOT want to be at f/4.5 unless you want to change all of your settings every time that you zoom.

[DDCSD]

Your lens has a variable max aperture. If you shoot manual you do NOT want to be at f/4.5 unless you want to change all of your settings every time that you zoom.

Good point!

Be sure to set it for f/5.6.

[TheSportsGuy]

Like everyone else has said, manual works fine.

And as far as WB goes, I have gotten into using the Cloudy WB for really sunny days. Why? Because I have noticed that the bright sun tends to drain all the color out of your picture, so by using Cloudy WB it adds some saturation to make the picture less washed out.

[TheMissouriShooter]

Canon 100-400mm L IS USM isn't the best baseball lens. But it's what you have so use it. Make sure the IS feature is turned off.

[stonyzmom]

Canon 100-400mm L IS USM isn't the best baseball lens. But it's what you have so use it. Make sure the IS feature is turned off.

Really? I think it works fine......it's not the lens.....it's the operator at this point. What would you opine is the best lens for baseball? I'd really like to know. I'm always on the lookout for a good lens. Now, keep in mind I don't want to spend $4k to $5k so let me in on your secret. I'd also like to know why you would turn off the image stabilizer when I'm moving from shot to shot - slide into second, play at home......I'm panning a lot of the time, and quickly.

[Magic 24]

Really? I think it works fine......it's not the lens.....it's the operator at this point. What would you opine is the best lens for baseball? I'd really like to know. I'm always on the lookout for a good lens. Now, keep in mind I don't want to spend $4k to $5k so let me in on your secret. I'd also like to know why you would turn off the image stabilizer when I'm moving from shot to shot - slide into second, play at home......I'm panning a lot of the time, and quickly.

Far be it for me to say - since I've been corrected before - but what I think they may be referring to is the high f/stop (4 - 5.6). The best...70 - 200 2.8 L to keep the price down. You may be able to find a good used 300 2.8 for $2700-3300 - but that's getting up they isn't it? Plus - if you're a zoomer, you may find in difficult to use a telephoto.

He comes the tricky part...IS is great for some types of shots but with reference to sports and moving action...I've read you need to turn off the IS. There are many threads that will discuss this. I guy told me, "I turn off my IS because it makes me sea sick!"

Bottom line - if you like it - use it, but try some without and see.:confused:

[Howard Ting]

Really? I think it works fine......it's not the lens.....it's the operator at this point. What would you opine is the best lens for baseball? I'd really like to know. I'm always on the lookout for a good lens. Now, keep in mind I don't want to spend $4k to $5k so let me in on your secret. I'd also like to know why you would turn off the image stabilizer when I'm moving from shot to shot - slide into second, play at home......I'm panning a lot of the time, and quickly.


the intent of IS (mode 1) is to raise the cap on the slowest shutter speed you can shoot hand held w/o motion blur. @400mm it will make pictures hand heldable to probably about 1/100-1/400 (correct me if i am wrong.) at that point no action is stopped, balls, arms, body movement will be blurred.

however when you are shooting at high shutter speed and continuous drive as you should for sports, IS will slow down the AF resulting in more time between shoots= missed action.

[Magic 24]

Here's another thread of what I was talking/referring about: Indoor Sports: IS or not? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=663420&highlight=dmwierz)

[stonyzmom]

I just saw a brand new Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L USM (non-IS) for $550. Should I jump on it?

For baseball, I feel like this lens won't give me the reach I need. That's why I bought the 100-400. I don't always have field access.

I will try turning off the IS today and see what happens. This will be my first day shooting in manual, too, which so far is kind of tricky. We shall see.

[DDCSD]

I just saw a brand new Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L USM (non-IS) for $550. Should I jump on it?

2.8 version????


If so, yes. If you don't want it I'll give you $600 for it and I already have one!

[stonyzmom]

Nope........my bad. It's an f/4. I will wait until I can find an f/2.8, non IS. Do you think I can get good baseball pictures with that lens? I have my doubts dang it. Of course, I will use it for other things, too, i.e. birds and wildlife as I have a cabin in the mountains. It just seems short to me......am I wrong? What are the benefits that outweigh its lack of reach (in layman's terms)?

[Magic 24]

I just saw a brand new Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L USM (non-IS) for $550. Should I jump on it?

For baseball, I feel like this lens won't give me the reach I need. That's why I bought the 100-400. I don't always have field access.

I will try turning off the IS today and see what happens. This will be my first day shooting in manual, too, which so far is kind of tricky. We shall see.

Where are you looking - here (POTN)? Do you know about Fred Miranda or Sports Shooter? Fred's: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10

[DDCSD]

Nope........my bad. It's an f/4. I will wait until I can find an f/2.8, non IS. Do you think I can get good baseball pictures with that lens? I have my doubts dang it. Of course, I will use it for other things, too, i.e. birds and wildlife as I have a cabin in the mountains. It just seems short to me......am I wrong? What are the benefits that outweigh its lack of reach (in layman's terms)?

Just take a look at where 200mm is on your 100-400 when you're out today. I agree that it will be a bit short.

Your 100-400 is fine, you just can't get that butter smooth blurring of the background with it. You gotta move up to the $2500+ lenses to get to that territory.

[MJPhotos24]

I have noticed that the bright sun tends to drain all the color out of your picture, so by using Cloudy WB it adds some saturation to make the picture less washed out.
Drains the color on sunny days?? Sounds more like not getting the exposure right more than anything. As for washed out on sunny days you may have to sacrifice something (white uniform) for proper exposure on what's needed (faces), but there's ways around it by knowing how to deal with the light like shooting into it for example.

[TheMissouriShooter]

Sorry I was away most of the afternoon. I didn't mean for that to sound mean about the 100-400mm. It's just not my first,second or third choice for baseball. You will get better results with the IS off. Another resaon I'm not a real fan of the 100-400 is should you add the Canon Extender you will really lose out on the quality of the picture. Plus the Auto Focus won't work. If you can find a 70-200 2.8 non IS or with IS for a great price you won't go wrong. Even see if a local camera shop will rent one for a day or two so you can try it. Do you or has anyone explained to you what a crop camera does to a lens? I know what you mean about the cost of lens. I just ordered a 500mm f4 IS.

Something to think about - When you mount these heavy lens on the XTi or XSi be very careful. I have seen them seperate from the plastic body cameras.

[TheSportsGuy]

Drains the color on sunny days?? Sounds more like not getting the exposure right more than anything. As for washed out on sunny days you may have to sacrifice something (white uniform) for proper exposure on what's needed (faces), but there's ways around it by knowing how to deal with the light like shooting into it for example.

Naw, the exposure is fine, but the colors look very flat and unattractive with WB on Auto.

[stonyzmom]

Well, hopefully you "pros" will still let me hang out with you.

First of all......I tried manual and it was too hard to go from shooting a batter to shooting a play in the field......the light gradient was too great, i.e. darker behind the plate than the infield and I kept having to play with the exposure. It was a pain in my arse. I also tried turning off the IS.....no go. I got a few pics out of focus without the IS when I was trying to quickly get a shot of a play.

So, I went back to aperture mode half the time and manual half the time. I like the aperture mode for some reason. I will keep trying to shoot in manual, but my experience yesterday was not a good one. Maybe on a cloudy day it will be better when there is not a significant difference in the lighting in various areas of the field.

My experience with manual was wonderful when the subjects stayed in one place......not a normal occurrence in sports, though.

[S.Horton]

Setting aside the fence, which you can do nothing about.........

In this case, you have a backlit subject with varying light, correct? Or, a strongly sidelit subject when the sun is setting -- Both have harsh shadows.

AV, evaluative metering, AI Servo, exposure compensation (for the above_ ~+1/2 or 1) -- Your goal is to properly expose the faces of the players. Under the cap, backlit, you must expose more to get it.

Your lens is fine.

M is unlikely to be your best mode (today) because when the light changes you have to be very quick to adjust.

Keep your lens hood on.

Move your ISO up so that your shutter speed is at or above 1/640 whenever possible.

Use a monopod.

If YOU are not moving the camera much, then IS mode 1 is fine. Use mode 2 when you're going to pan. Although others may disagree with that, I do not know why, because I've shot both ways even with high shutter speeds and IS seems to help more than it hurts. Plus, hey, we're not shooting for Sports Illustrated!

Consider (if possible) changing your angle so that the sun isn't directly behind the players.

If you've not already started to color-correct and post-process photos, start that now as well to step up a notch in results.

Enjoy!

[stonyzmom]

Thanks for the info. I have Lightroom2 and use it. Here are some pics I took yesterday. These white uni's are going to be the death of me. We have them again on Tuesday.....argh. I believe I shot these in Av with IS on. I always have the IS on 1. I may have to try 2 if I'm moving around a lot. I do use a monopod.....this lens is way too heavy to handhold for several hours. I've done it, but my wrists start to hurt.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2929/examples2.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6294/examples32.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5086/examples4.jpg

[S.Horton]

So, what is it from the photos directly above that you're unhappy about?

Color? Contrast? Sharpness out of the camera?

As for the uniforms -- If you're worried about "not blowing out" the whites in uniforms, forget about it and expose for the faces.

[stonyzmom]

Not really unhappy with them other than the white uni's. Not crazy about the backgrounds, but there's not much I can do about that.

Ironically, I now find myself praying for a cloudy day.;)

[S.Horton]

Ah, ok, then work on exposing for the faces, then you're good to go!

Myself, I hate overcast days -- I get 'flat' results all the time then.

BTW, when I see the EXIF and high shutter speed on some of the photos, then the results, I suspect the camera is shaking more than you realize.

If you have not already seen this thread, it could be helpful:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=135417

[TheMissouriShooter]

The pictures really don't look bad. Myself I perfer to get the shutter speed higher than 1/640 . As far as the white uniforms. You think white uniforms are hard try snow. I use a Expodisc http://www.expoimaging.net/index.php to set the custom white balance.