Modelling Agency... what exactly is it?

[KevC]

Hey,

My friend is an aspiring entrepeneur slash venture capalist. He just wants to start a business, basically. Another one. He already has a dot com that has an office, but that office has a lot of free space.

His original idea was a dating service. He wanted me to be the photographer. Nothing has been done about it yet, his other business is really busy at this time. However, upon futher pondering, I do believe this idea will flop. As with all businesses, the goal is to maximise profit. Now there's already LavaLife and other big paid dating services out there. I doubt it'd be easy to get clients, and this soft of business requires a *large* clientel to be effective.

This got me thinking, however.. how about a modelling agency? To tell you the honest truth, I have absolutely no idea what these do. I'm *GUESSiNG* models come to the agency, and gets hooked up with positions? Sorta like a job search for models?

If that's what a modelling agency is, then I have doubts that this is gonna work. However, maybe not exactly a modelling agency. We could go out and find aspiring models and get them to pay for us to shoot them. Of course I'll hafta imrpove my skill and technique to be able to create pleasing results, but do you think this is a viable business proposition?

Maybe charge the model $300 per shoot, and this will yeild at least 5-6 usable shots in glamour, fashion, or whichever style they prefer? The rent is already paid for, I already have most of the equipment. All we really need is a backdrop. If the business seems to be doing well we could invest in some Alien Bees.

Thoughts?

[DocFrankenstein]

Shouldn't you be studying for exams right now? lol

Potentially, we're direct competitors. :p

I was thinking about this stuff too. There is certainly a market for this in Toronto, but it's competitive as anything else. We have Paul Buceta downtown and some other high end photogs, a bunch of established photogs with a reputation...
http://www.paulbuceta.com/main/photography.html

I don't know your skill level, but I feel that 300 bucks should yield results similar to these:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66858

I am nowhere near that skill level. Plus it's a tradeoff. I think it's gonna take about 2-3 months of full time shooting, to get good. You'll also need a studio, with 4 alien bees, backdrops, gels...

It's tempting, but getting a job in the university will advance my career and I will probably get paid better anyway. Photography right now is a distracting hobby for me ;)

What kind of business do you want? Are you going to make money from photographing aspiring models or are you going to make money from employment commission?

[w10d]

We could go out and find aspiring models and get them to pay for us to shoot them. Of course I'll hafta imrpove my skill and technique to be able to create pleasing results, but do you think this is a viable business proposition?

Maybe charge the model $300 per shoot, and this will yeild at least 5-6 usable shots in glamour, fashion, or whichever style they prefer? The rent is already paid for, I already have most of the equipment. All we really need is a backdrop. If the business seems to be doing well we could invest in some Alien Bees.


Well, please don't misunderstand where I'm coming from, & I'm not trying to flame you, but this is pretty close to a scam. Models who can work get agents without needing 'professional' photos first. The agents will arrange free or paid tests with photographers who have a working relationship with the agency. Very soon the models have a steady turnover of new pictures from jobs & will only need to test if they do something like change a hairstyle.

So where does that leave this kind of business? Trying to sell 'must have' pictures to wannabe models who, mostly, don't have any real prospects of making a good living out of a modelling career. Worst are the people who sell 'model portfolios' shot in a couple of hours, this can never look (or work) like a real model book.

Sorry if I'm upsetting anyone with this, but some aspects of this business really make me sick. :(

Incidentally, I have shot 'paid' tests for major model agencies in both London & Paris & the 'pay' is really little more than costs - certainly not even near editorial day rates. So you see why I don't like to hear of aspiring models getting ripped off for hundreds of dollars...

[DocFrankenstein]

Yeah... there are tons of businesses that rip people off like that. Barbizon is one example I know of...

[charlesu]

Well, please don't misunderstand where I'm coming from, & I'm not trying to flame you, but this is pretty close to a scam. Models who can work get agents without needing 'professional' photos first. The agents will arrange free or paid tests with photographers who have a working relationship with the agency. Very soon the models have a steady turnover of new pictures from jobs & will only need to test if they do something like change a hairstyle.

So where does that leave this kind of business? Trying to sell 'must have' pictures to wannabe models who, mostly, don't have any real prospects of making a good living out of a modelling career. Worst are the people who sell 'model portfolios' shot in a couple of hours, this can never look (or work) like a real model book.

Sorry if I'm upsetting anyone with this, but some aspects of this business really make me sick. :(

Incidentally, I have shot 'paid' tests for major model agencies in both London & Paris & the 'pay' is really little more than costs - certainly not even near editorial day rates. So you see why I don't like to hear of aspiring models getting ripped off for hundreds of dollars...

I agree with you about the scams but the legit agencies I know of (none in London or Paris--I definitely have to defer to your experience in the big markets) require the models to get shots done and comp cards printed. While some agencies will front good candidates this money, they do expect the models to pay for it. Modes want to be paid for modeling. Printers also like to be paid for printing. Photographers and stylists want to be paid for their work too. Though it might not be much.....

[KevC]

Hey. Thanks for all the replies. That's why I love this forum, I can make an a** of myself here instead of doing so in public ;)

DocFrankenstein: Yes, we would be competitors ;) I live slightly north of the GTA though, so I'm hoping I could do some work up here while all the big name people do work downtown.

w10d: I did not think about that, but now that you mention it my idea is way more evil than I originally thought. Thanks for bringing it up.

My original idea wasn't to promise professional pictures from an unprofessional model. My idea originated from my friend, who shoots model for $$$. Since I don't have a studio, I'm just using my friend's office. That's all... really. lol.

Anyway, thanks for the advice again. Yes, Doc, you're right. I should be studying, lol. It's just me out of a job thinking of ideas to reel in some money that's related to photography :) Back to studying for finals...

[robertwgross]

Also consider that in some cities, a modeling agency is simply a front for an escort service, which sometimes is a front for a call girl service.

---Bob Gross---

[robertwgross]

Did you know, Bob, that in China, barber shops are usually mini brothels?

I plead the Fifth.

---Bob Gross---

[iwatkins]

I would also question the need for model agencies these days if you are a photographer looking for a model. I haven't approached a model agency in years. If I need a model I can usually find someone suitable through OMP, Net-model etc.

Everyone is a winner as the models don't have an agency skimming off part of the fees and the photographer also wins as fees should be cheaper. If the model is sensible, uses email instead of home addresses for contact, possibly takes a chaperone etc. they should also remain safe.

Models can also commission a photographer to take head shots etc. and there are plenty of companies about that with produce comp/Z cards from them for the models. I.e. a model should be able to self promote themselves these days.

Cheers

Ian

[Longwatcher]

My expectations of what a modeling agency should be doing these days.
It should be doing the following for the model and except for #2 is identical to what a manager should be doing.

1. finding low cost (or free) photographers who do good work to establish a portfolio. They should be trying to get at least 6 different photographers to provide different looks and styles. And updating it as needed or at least annually.

2. They should be helping the model learn how to be a model, this includes:
- makeup
- hair
- clothing
- posing (for video and still)
- runway
- accesorizing
- teaching a little bit of how the photographer works and what his equipment does. [I find professional models know where the camera is at all times in relation to there poses and have a fairly good idea of how they are going to be lit]

3. They should be willing to escort the models to photo shoots.

4. They should be trying to get paid shoots for the model. This sometimes means promoting the model to larger agencies (which in turns means they may lose the model)
[note: to me losing the model to a larger agency means you did your job well, maybe too well, but like a parent you should be proud of your accomplishment - go find another model]

5. They should be reviewing any contracts the models sign.

6. And most imporant and most difficult, they should be honest with the model. If she is not likely to make it, except in a nitch market, they need to let the model know this up front.

To me scams are where they say they are model agencies and all they really are is photography agencies. They tend not to do #6 at all and care more about how much the agency makes then how well the model is doing.

I considered doing the model agency thing, but I felt I needed a few things first, which I don't have at this time.
1. Time, it would have to be a full-time job
2. A real studio location (with room for teaching runway)
3. A former model who can actually teach aspiring models what they need to know.
4. Access to a makeup expert to teach a class in makeup
5. Access to a stylyst to teach a class in hair
6. An assistant I trust enough to escort a model to a shoot if I can't.

I have a day job so 1 is out, and there is no point to 2 while I do. #3 is probably the hardest since I would need them almost full time eventually. I have access to people who can do 4 and 5, although I am not confident in their teaching abilities. 6 is easy.

So until I can meet my criteria, no modeling agency for me.

And I have to agree with Bob that some modeling agencies are a front for non-modeling activities. I have run into one of those, which surprised the model that I only wanted to take pictures. Okay honestly that is not all I WANTED to do, but it is all I asked her to do.

Me I personally recommend all aspiring models to get onto www.onemodelplace.com, that will take care of your portfolio after about 3-6 months and get you lots of practice is your looks have a chance. But I also recommend having someone to escort you to at least all first shoots. If nothing else visit the site and check out the competition.

Just my opinion,

[reidr]

Bloo Dog? What is the going price for head shots...?

[reidr]

How many looks? Need hair styling? Makeup? What market?

CharlesU can give you a better answer than I. He's in your area.

I do very little of that kind of work now.

Sorry, I should have given more info with that question.:oops:
Thanks for the reply. CharlesU is more uptown than the area that I am in...but, this is a strong real estate area with million dollar plus residential home sales. 3 or 4 shots, client ready to shoot when they walk in the door.

[Todd Jacobsen]

I've known quite a few vane women in my time.

Most of them like to do "model" shoots for no other purpose than self gratification.

Probably calling the business a "modelling agency" would be wrong.

Having a photo studio that provides "modelling shots" for use in dating services, Who's Who columns, vanity portraits, etc would probably fly just fine.

Just look at HS graduation packages now, they're no longer studio only settings, muliple locations, an assortment of clothes are utilized - as well as makeup.