Newbe Needs help getting best camera for money$$$

[dlpike74]

I bought a Canon A560 last yr to take pics of the grandkids and they are involved in some kind of sports all the time. Of corse the 560 does great in out door normal shots but inside the basketball gym it really sux. I have some expereance with iso and fstops from my old 35mm cameras in the past. Ihave a Canon T70 if ya'll remember them and it's broken. I was thinking I might could get a higher end camera that I could use my old lens from the T70, One is a canon FD 50MM 1:1.8 lens and the other is a 55MM Vivitar 35-70MM 1:2.8-3.8 MC Macro Focusing Zoom.
I'm not conserned about manual focus of the lens in fact the auto focus lag time on the 560 kills most of my shots and seting the iso to 1600 does'nt give you a shot worth printing, bluring basketball when dribbling and I suppose all that grain and other junk in the pic is noise I've read about.
Sorry to dump all this on you but I really need some help and dont have unlimeted funds since I'm disabled.................Please helpme some one
It will be greatly apprecated
I have no idea why I'm up this late but will check for replys tomorrow THANKS:rolleyes:

[DC Fan]

Canon started phasing out FD-lens cameras 22 years ago. All of Canon's DSLR's use the EF, EOS mount.

There are a few places (http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/canon-fd-eos-adapter.htm) where you can buy lens mount adapters, (http://www.amazon.com/Adorama-Canon-Lens-Body-Adapter/dp/B00009R7ZR) or you could try making your own adapter. (http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-eos-to-fd-adapter.html)

[alduin]

You say you don't have unlimited funds... that goes for just about all of us. =)

Give us a better idea of what you're able to spend, and we ought to be able to give you some recommendations.

[Bob_A]

If you are really strapped for funds buy a used 20D and Canon 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 II USM (note: only the "II" version, not the others). This will be a very good low cost kit for general purpose shooting, but not acceptable for sports shooting in a gym.

When you need to shoot in a gym, rent a 70-200 f/2.8L (IS or non-IS) or buy a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8.


Used 20D: $350
Canon 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 II USM: $230
Sigma 70-200 f/2.8: $730

Pretty good and inexpensive kit for $1310 IMO :)

[snyderman]

DL, I'll commiserate with you about the lack of cooperation you'll get with a Canon P&S indoors for something like baseket or volley ball. Stop action and dark, or light and blurred. Unfortunately those are your two choices!

Outdoors for football or soccer you CAN get pretty passible pics. Not real close, but you can still crop them, color balance, contrast and sharpen into some pretty good shots!

But that's not what you're looking for. I jumped on the DSLR bandwagon last November to shoot sports as well. Ended up with all USED gear purchase here from POTN members.

1. Canon 30D, ($400-450 range)

2. Canon 85mm f/1.8 ($300-325 range) GREAT for basketball as long as you can get courtside. Low light NOT an issue for this lens!

3. Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 ($600 range, used) low light only an issue in the darkest of dungeon gyms.

All gear fantastic outdoors. So there you go. A pretty decent sports rig for the grandkids that won't break the bank. What is that ... about $1350 on the used market?

dave

[dlpike74]

:cry: I guess I'm SOL, cause the price range ya'll are talking about twice I was hoping for. As I said I hoped I could just buy a body and use my lens, guess I've been out of the game too long not that I had any good stuff to work with in the first place. I thank you for your help and will hang around here and try to learn a few things.

[Bob_A]

Maybe pick up something like an old AE-1 in good condition and shoot film?

[Patrick]

For sports, the 50D with good glass. Hands down.
It takes photos fast (bursts), has ISO up to 12800 (I only go up to ISO 6400), and is priced nicely when compared to a 1D.

Check out the Rebel T1i. It has high ISO and is cheaper than the 50D.

[S.Horton]

Welcome to POTN.

For used gear, look here: http://www.keh.com

[Bob_A]

For sports, the 50D with good glass. Hands down.
It takes photos fast (bursts), has ISO up to 12800 (I only go up to ISO 6400), and is priced nicely when compared to a 1D.

Check out the Rebel T1i. It has high ISO and is cheaper than the 50D.

Patrick, the OP says he can't afford the option with a used 20D for $350. It sounds like he only wants to spend $700 for both a camera and lens :)

[Patrick]

Patrick, the OP says he can't afford the option with a used 20D for $350. It sounds like he only wants to spend $700 for both a camera and lens :)

I wish him the best of luck but that price isn't going to get the equipment necessary to do what he wants.:cry:

[clarence]

Patrick, the OP says he can't afford the option with a used 20D for $350. It sounds like he only wants to spend $700 for both a camera and lens :)

I wish him the best of luck but that price isn't going to get the equipment necessary to do what he wants.:cry:

20D/30D or XT/XTi/XS/XSi with a $70 50/1.8

[Bob_A]

20D/30D or XT/XTi/XS/XSi with a $70 50/1.8

Not a great choice for taking sports photos though :) The 85mm f/1.8 suggested by snyderman is probably as short as you can get away with as long as you're shooting from the floor.

[dlpike74]

From what I've compaired of the XTi XSi and the D40 the XSi seems to be closest to my range. I'm just taking shots from court side of small gym. Ican tell already this is gonna get deep in my pockets. After looking at the features on the (new to me) D30 and D40 I kinda feel like Fred Flintstone.

what do you think of reconditioned or open box deals?

[Bob_A]

I'm sure you're talking about a 40D (Canon) and not a D40 (Nikon) ... right? :)

The 40D is a fantastic camera, but the body itself, even used or reconditioned, is over $700. Then you still need to get a lens :)

You could get a used 40D for $720 (not a refurb) and a 85mm f/1.8 for $355 and be good to go to shoot from courtside. Keep in mind though that having just this one lens will be pretty limiting if you acutally want to use the camera for other purposes. Some things you'll eventually need:

1. A decent flash, such as a 430EX II ($270)
2. A general purpose zoom lens (Two inexpensive ones are the 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 II USM: $230 or 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS: $170)
3. CF cards (4GB Sandisk Ultra II's are $25 each: Get 2-3 minimum)

[H0ND0]

What would y'all think about a used 30D + 85 1.8 combo? That would be right around his price range and would be decent for gyms. He could still use his P&S for outdoor until he can afford a decent distance lens.

[clarence]

The 40D is a fantastic camera, but the body itself, even used or reconditioned, is over $700. Then you still need to get a lens :)

You could get a used 40D for $720 (not a refurb) and a 85mm f/1.8 for $355 and be good to go to shoot from courtside.

You must not shop in the same used forums that I do or maybe the used market in Canada is pricier than in the US.

The 40D was at the high-end of my list of cameras that are within his budget. I bought my low-click 40D several months ago for $600. They fluctuate from week to week, but usually hover between $650-700... less if you're a thorough and patient shopper. That's why I then mentioned the 50/1.8 lens - it stays under his $750 total budget. Plus most lenses are easily resellable when he's able to upgrade.

I have the 50/1.8 and I have the 85/1.8... no doubt the 85mm is the better lens, but at 4x-6x the cost... over his budget. If he's willing to step down to a Rebel or 20D/30D, then maybe he can sink the savings into the 85mm upgrade. It's always easier to spend more than someone's stated budget, but not as helpful.

[Bob_A]

You must not shop in the same used forums that I do or maybe the used market in Canada is pricier than in the US.

The 40D was at the high-end of my list of cameras that are within his budget. I bought my low-click 40D several months ago for $600. They fluctuate from week to week, but usually hover between $650-700... less if you're a thorough and patient shopper. That's why I then mentioned the 50/1.8 lens - it stays under his $750 total budget. Plus most lenses are easily resellable when he's able to upgrade.

I have the 50/1.8 and I have the 85/1.8... no doubt the 85mm is the better lens, but at 4x-6x the cost... over his budget. If he's willing to step down to a Rebel or 20D/30D, then maybe he can sink the savings into the 85mm upgrade. It's always easier to spend more than someone's stated budget, but not as helpful.

I checked on POTN and B&H. Both were $US and reputable. Even KEH.com (very reputable US site for used equipment) has it for $789. It's fortunate that you got yours for $600, but it's not the norm yet, but as always if you're willing to wait a gem of a deal will come around.

Sorry, but the 85mm f/1.8 is a highly regarded lens, and the 50mm f/1.8 is ... not. The most that can be said for the 50mm f/1.8 is that it is good optically and is worth <$80. 50mm is much to short to shoot sports IMO, even from courtside.

[clarence]

Sorry, but the 85mm f/1.8 is a highly regarded lens, and the 50mm f/1.8 is ... not. The most that can be said for the 50mm f/1.8 is that it is good optically and is worth <$80. 50mm is much to short to shoot sports IMO, even from courtside.

No need to apologize. We agree...
"The most that can be said for the 50mm f/1.8 is that it is good optically and is worth <$80"

The other things that can be said (and have already been said):
- the 85/1.8 is better than the 50/1.8
- the OP could easily resell the 50mm when he's able to upgrade to the 85mm

For shooting grandkids from courtside, IMHO 50mm will be fine to start with. It's just one man's opinion offered for consideration. No need to get worked up over it. I respect your suggestion that he should spend 4x-6x more.

[clarence]

I checked on POTN and B&H. Both were $US and reputable. Even KEH.com (very reputable US site for used equipment) has it for $789.

40D... $690 shipped
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=671166&highlight=40D

XSi... $460 shipped
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=671436

XTi... $325 shipped (plus this leaves plenty of room in the OP's budget for 85/1.8)
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=671194

40D with a grip and 2 batteries... SOLD $700
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/756149/0?keyword=40D#6898858

40D with 2300 clicks... SOLD $650
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/756106/0?keyword=40D#6898359

40D with 5000 clicks... SOLD $650
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/756043/0?keyword=40D#6897680

$650...
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/755951/0?keyword=40D#6896743

$655...
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/753853/0?keyword=40D#6874072

I'm not explicitly recommending any of the sellers, just providing a quick list of options that may suit the OP's query. Ebay is even cheaper, but can also be riskier if you're not careful.

[Bob_A]

Good work Clarence!

[Bob_A]

No need to apologize. We agree...
"The most that can be said for the 50mm f/1.8 is that it is good optically and is worth <$80"

The other things that can be said (and have already been said):
- the 85/1.8 is better than the 50/1.8
- the OP could easily resell the 50mm when he's able to upgrade to the 85mm

For shooting grandkids from courtside, IMHO 50mm will be fine to start with. It's just one man's opinion offered for consideration. No need to get worked up over it. I respect your suggestion that he should spend 4x-6x more.

Not really getting worked up :) I just can't recommend the 50 F/1.8. To me it's "worth" <$80 and proves the point that often you get what you pay for. Optically it's good, it's the AF and build that are poor.

[dlpike74]

:eyes Sorry but at 1:00am or so the D tends to jump on the wrong side of the 40.
I appreciate everyone opinions and input, I'm wanting to stay with Canon but will have to save a few more pennys. I would like to be patient and figure out what I want in the camera and wait on a good deal maybe; Just to be honest I've played this game of upgrading with computers and such and I just as soon buy the camera I need........scratch that; I want, and an allpurpose lens keeping in mind the reason is going to be indoors Bball and Vball games and I can see that I'll be adding more lens as can buy down the road, I kinda like the idea of using my p&s for the daylight shots.

[dlpike74]

I don't put too much confidence in the discounts you get from someone like Dell but is this not a decent deal?
Canon EOS Rebel XSi 12.2 MP Digital Camera with 18-55 mm IS Lens (Dell Digital Cameras & Camcorders)
$699 w/ Free Shipping

Sorry Mods if I wasn't suposed to give name here,

[Bob_A]

I don't put too much confidence in the discounts you get from someone like Dell but is this not a decent deal?
Canon EOS Rebel XSi 12.2 MP Digital Camera with 18-55 mm IS Lens (Dell Digital Cameras & Camcorders)
$699 w/ Free Shipping

Sorry Mods if I wasn't suposed to give name here,

Some of the Dell deals you folks in the US can get are really good. There have been a few complaints on POTN that it can take a long time to receive your stuff though.

In this case ~$699 is the going rate for that particular combo (although the free shipping is a plus :) ):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542181-REG/Canon_2757B003_EOS_Rebel_XSi_a_k_a_.html

The 18-55 will not work for indoor sports unfortunately since at f/5.6 at the long end which is way too slow. And it's also a bit short IMO. However, it'll do as a general purpose lens until you can get something better.

Before buying an XSI try one out at a camera shop side by side with a 40D. Personally I'd take a used 40D (or 20D for that matter) over a brand new XSi just because I don't like the way the Rebels feel and their control layout. Some like the Rebels more than the XXD series though because they're more compact.

As far as the upgrading goes, DSLR's are contantly being updated (like computers) where lenses are more of an investment in a system. The good thing is that all Canon DSLR's made over the past 5 years can give outstanding results, and in the right situations it's pretty hard to see much difference in the results from a 20D or a 50D when printed at <11x14 or viewing on the web.

The newer bodies have:

Better rear LCD's for previewing images
Spot metering
Sensor cleaning (by vibrating the sensor)
Some have the ability to fine tune the AF by lens (i.e. the 50D)
More information in the viewfinder
Improved/faster processors
Improved AF (i.e., the 40D/50D have better AF-Servo than the 20D/30D)

More MP's and having 14 bit vs 12 bit are also improvements, however depending on your output you may not see a benefit for either. If you never print large and if you don't do a lot of cropping higher MP's just means you need more hard drive space and a more powerful computer to edit the files.

[clarence]

I don't put too much confidence in the discounts you get from someone like Dell but is this not a decent deal?
Canon EOS Rebel XSi 12.2 MP Digital Camera with 18-55 mm IS Lens (Dell Digital Cameras & Camcorders)
$699 w/ Free Shipping

I think the XSi is a great kit at a great price.

I also agree with Bob. The 18-55mm IS lens in that kit isn't really suitable for basketball.

But it's a great all-purpose walk-about lens. And the IS version they're including now is 10x better than the previous 18-55mm non-IS kit lens they used to provide.

I had an XTi before I upgraded to the 40D and I really enjoyed it. But even though both cameras are 10MP, the main reasons I upgraded were for better high-ISO performance and better AF. The 6.5fps, spot metering, larger LCD, and Live View were also nice to have.

Go to this site and click "side by side"
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/

Add the Xti, XSi, and 40D and compare the main features.

The XSi adds Live View, 12.2 MP, 3" screen, and spot metering. But it doesn't have cross point AF or ISO 3200 and it's "only" 3.5 fps (but timing a single shot is more important than machine gunning).

I think the XSi kit is a great option for your budget and it removes any hassle and risk of buying used.

[easypz]

If you are really strapped for funds buy a used 20D and Canon 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 II USM (note: only the "II" version, not the others). This will be a very good low cost kit for general purpose shooting, but not acceptable for sports shooting in a gym.

When you need to shoot in a gym, rent a 70-200 f/2.8L (IS or non-IS) or buy a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8.


Used 20D: $350
Canon 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 II USM: $230
Sigma 70-200 f/2.8: $730

Pretty good and inexpensive kit for $1310 IMO :)

+ 1 On the used 20D. Instead of a cheap zoom you could go for a 50 1.8 or better yet a used 85 1.8. Both great in low light situations.

[nuffi]

The film suggestion might not be such a bad idea either. You can pick up film kits very cheap on ebay these days. Get a great body (F1 or t90) for a couple of hundred bucks in great condition. Use the old FD lenses, and perhaps pickup an extra lens or two for good measure.

[dlpike74]

So my lens the lower the f/ the more light it captures and with zoom lens they generally have a higher f? I may have to forget about zoom because of cost for a decent lens and go for something like a 85. When I bought the POS I liked the fact I could preview what I was shooting and I still would like that feature on my next camera. I think I'm leaning toward the XSi. I just don't like shooting a bunch of film to get a few goods shots. I know there's a learning curve I'll have to go through but having a LCD seems to help even with the POS i have. patience, patience, patience

[Bob_A]

So my lens the lower the f/ the more light it captures and with zoom lens they generally have a higher f? I may have to forget about zoom because of cost for a decent lens and go for something like a 85. When I bought the POS I liked the fact I could preview what I was shooting and I still would like that feature on my next camera. I think I'm leaning toward the XSi. I just don't like shooting a bunch of film to get a few goods shots. I know there's a learning curve I'll have to go through but having a LCD seems to help even with the POS i have. patience, patience, patience

Correct. Unless you're willing to shell out a lot of dough most zooms will be too slow to do what you want. About the cheapest fast zoom you'll find is the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8, which goes for $370:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/284399-REG/Tamron_AF09C700_28_75mm_f_2_8_XR_Di.html



Just to illustrate how slow the 18-55 is at the 55 end (wide open = f/5.6):

Let's say at f/1.8 in a gym you were able to get the shutterspeed up to 1/800s at high ISO (ISO 1600 or 3200). Terrific ... you'd have no problem freezing the action.

Now, with a lens that can only open up to f/5.6 under the same lighting and at the same ISO you would need a shutterspeed of 1/79s ... which will result in your grandkids looking like an blurry mess.

At f/2.8 the shutterspeed would be 1/317s, and your shots will be pretty reasonable.

Alternative: If you had a good flash (not the pop-up one on the camera) such as a 430EX II or 580EX II, and the school allowed you to use it the whole game changes :) Shooting sports with flash requires reasonable knowledge of how camera metering and flash metering works though, so for some people it can be a bit tricky.

[Sibil]

What would y'all think about a used 30D + 85 1.8 combo? That would be right around his price range and would be decent for gyms. He could still use his P&S for outdoor until he can afford a decent distance lens.

I agree with your suggestions. I think it is the best compromise between cost and features. Even a 20D might fill the bill. I would add the inexpensive 50/1.8 for the walkaround needs until it can be replaced with something better.

The 85/1.8 can capture some of the outdoor sports pictures as well if the user positions himself on the right spot and wait for the action to get close to him. It won't capture everything but will do fine to get a few shots.

dlpike74, keep in mind that shooting basketball is very difficult. Having the right gear is only the starting point You would need to practice a lot. I'm there with you.

[Bob_A]

I agree with your suggestions. I think it is the best compromise between cost and features. Even a 20D might fill the bill. I would add the inexpensive 50/1.8 for the walkaround needs until it can be replaced with something better.

The 85/1.8 can capture some of the outdoor sports pictures as well if the user positions himself on the right spot and wait for the action to get close to him. It won't capture everything but will do fine to get a few shots.

dlpike74, keep in mind that shooting basketball is very difficult. Having the right gear is only the starting point You would need to practice a lot. I'm there with you.

A 30D and 85mm f/1.8 would be a very good combo. And the OP could get exactly the same results with a 20D since they are essentially the same camera. The 30D was a minor upgrade over the 20D and provides a few new features such as a better rear LCD and spot metering. AF, sensor, etc. are the same for the two models.

The other advantage of the 85mm f/1.8 is that it is a very sharp lens.

[dlpike74]

I agree with your suggestions. I think it is the best compromise between cost and features. Even a 20D might fill the bill. I would add the inexpensive 50/1.8 for the walkaround needs until it can be replaced with something better.

The 85/1.8 can capture some of the outdoor sports pictures as well if the user positions himself on the right spot and wait for the action to get close to him. It won't capture everything but will do fine to get a few shots.

dlpike74, keep in mind that shooting basketball is very difficult. Having the right gear is only the starting point You would need to practice a lot. I'm there with you.


Thats the only way I've been able to get what few shots I have with the POS I have; to campout in a spot close to where my grandkids shoot from.....and yoooou know they were real coopertive in doing that. :rolleyes: At least my oldest 2 in highschool are more predictive but the 2 in 1st and 2nd grade is all over the place. I think getting the addional 85/1.8 may be the only way to go from everyones opinion.
By the way I hope doing the quote is the way to awnser someones remark; firstime posting on forum

[dlpike74]

A 30D and 85mm f/1.8 would be a very good combo. And the OP could get exactly the same results with a 20D since they are essentially the same camera. The 30D was a minor upgrade over the 20D and provides a few new features such as a better rear LCD and spot metering. AF, sensor, etc. are the same for the two models.

The other advantage of the 85mm f/1.8 is that it is a very sharp lens.



I'm shooting at my grandkids christian school which is not near as competitive as regular HS sports and I've used flash and so have others and we've never been called down................but I can see where they would not like it maybe, just never really thought that much about it since I've seen other parents do it.

[Sibil]

....and yoooou know they were real coopertive in doing that. :rolleyes:

My 7 year old loves it when I take pictures of her. At one of her basketball games, during a fast break when she was moving the ball, She noticed me on the sideline pointing my camera at her. She stopped and posed for me. It was priceless as everyone else ran right passed her.:)

On the other hand, my 14 year old finds it embarrassing that her dad is everywhere with his camera.:(