Mac or PC?

[tunin]

Hello all, I was just wondering how many people here use a MAC and what is the number of PC users? I just got a mac after being a PC user forever... I am very, very impressed with the simplicity and speed...

Anyhow, just wondering so I made this poll, if it is at the wrong place, please move. thx.

[disorder]

made the switch over to mac last friday. so far, i am very pleased.

[Natural Imagez]

made the switch to mac a little over a month ago and couldn't be happier. don't think i would ever own a pc again price or not.

[LuckyRobJ]

made the switch to mac a little over a month ago and couldn't be happier. don't think i would ever own a pc again price or not.

Same here. Five weeks in and very happy with my decision. Hardware aside, OS X is a dream for photo work and multimedia in general. Their hardware is second to none though, my macbook pro is super silent compared to any PC laptop I've ever seen, and I absolutely love the multitouch trackpad.

[songexe]

PC! I have so many issues with the Mac UI...

...though I wish I had iPhoto and Aperture sometimes.

[OdiN1701]

PC - never had a reason to even think of switching. Especially after having to use Macs in graphic design classes.

[gjl711]

Why discriminate against those who have both? I can't vote.

[Highlight_Photography]

I own both

Mac - Currently only running CS4 + my website
PC - Social computer (MSN, Gaming etc)

[In2Photos]

Hi, I'm Mike, and I'm a PC! :D

[Colorblinded]

This has been covered so many times, but I own both and use a PC the majority of the time primarily for hardware reasons than anything else. OS wise I'm relatively indifferent although I have some minor issues with both.

[René Damkot]

I've been on a Mac since 1994 or so, so if I were to use any version of Windows again, I'd have too much readjusting to do... Mainly all keyboard shortcuts would drive me mad. (Ctrl for Cmd, Alt for Opt) ;)

[Soda Ant]

I have multiple examples of both.

At last count: PCs: 7
Macs: 3

[disorder]

Hi, I'm Mike, and I'm a PC! :D

LOL, classic.

i like both so far, but i am honeymooning with my mac right now. ask me in a year.

[darkgoddess]

I wish I could say I'm Mac only but my husband hold stakes in the Macbook. Currently I use his Macbook plus my PC, but its because of him thats im getting my own in may.

[stathunter]

made the switch to mac a little over a month ago and couldn't be happier. don't think i would ever own a pc again price or not.

I made the move a year ago--- I am thrilled with my Mac. I still have a few PC's in my house but slowing making the move to convert the household.

[Subimatt]

I have both, but my Photo computer is a Mac.

[mikerault]

PC here.

[chrisforshaw]

Had my Mac for 2 weeks and will not be going back to a PC for editing. Everything is so much better...

[LimberlostPhtgrhy]

I made the MAC switch when we upgraded and I'm more then pleased. My husband remains a die hard PC user though.

[disorder]

just out of curiosity, why does everyone think editing on the MAC is better?

i mean, i am using LR2.3 on my new mac (which is what i was using on my old PC), and the performance difference is dramatic. however, my mac is also 4 years newer. i can't help but think the performance bump is due to the newer technology, and not necessarily because of the OS.

regardless, i am happy with my mac. i just want to play devil's advocate.

pc- torrenting
mac- everything else.

[In2Photos]

just out of curiosity, why does everyone think editing on the MAC is better?

i mean, i am using LR2.3 on my new mac (which is what i was using on my old PC), and the performance difference is dramatic. however, my mac is also 4 years newer. i can't help but think the performance bump is due to the newer technology, and not necessarily because of the OS.

regardless, i am happy with my mac. i just want to play devil's advocate.

pc- torrenting
mac- everything else.
Yeah, the performance difference from my current PC to my old PC is dramatic as well. Hardware makes a difference!

[Titus213]

I was going to respond to this thread yesterday but I got caught up in defragging my HD, updating the Virus package, verifying what it found, downloading some OS updates, re-booting a few times to get them installed and doing some basic tunig functions. No time left.

BTW - I'm on a PC.

The wife uses the Mac which is where I will go as soon as I can afford one.

[the_anj]

Both, but voted PC as that's what I do most work on.
Well, to be 100% honest, I have a Mac, several PC's and a linux box.

[songexe]

I was going to respond to this thread yesterday but I got caught up in defragging my HD, updating the Virus package, verifying what it found, downloading some OS updates, re-booting a few times to get them installed and doing some basic tunig functions. No time left.

BTW - I'm on a PC.

The wife uses the Mac which is where I will go as soon as I can afford one.

Other than updating virus definitions, what on that list would not apply to a Mac? The most time-consuming task on that list by far is the HD defrag, and if you're going to bother to do it on a PC you'll probably end up doing it on a Mac.

[disorder]

Other than updating virus definitions, what on that list would not apply to a Mac? The most time-consuming task on that list by far is the HD defrag, and if you're going to bother to do it on a PC you'll probably end up doing it on a Mac.

Viruses for macs aren't unheard of, but they are definitely not as prevalent as their windows couterparts.

[In2Photos]

I was going to respond to this thread yesterday but I got caught up in defragging my HD, updating the Virus package, verifying what it found, downloading some OS updates, re-booting a few times to get them installed and doing some basic tunig functions. No time left.

BTW - I'm on a PC.

The wife uses the Mac which is where I will go as soon as I can afford one.
Thanks for the laugh Dave! :lol:

[cueball]

Switched to Mac a few months ago and converted the wife last month. My daughter's on a PC that's less than a year old which is good bexause she's only seven and I want her to learn her way around windows for the next couple of years first.

[songexe]

Viruses for macs aren't unheard of, but they are definitely not as prevalent as their windows couterparts.

...I think you misunderstood what I was writing.

[enilm]

I would like to get a Macbook pro 15"

but first I gotta get rid of my thinkpad t61.

[interlock]

Other than updating virus definitions, what on that list would not apply to a Mac? The most time-consuming task on that list by far is the HD defrag, and if you're going to bother to do it on a PC you'll probably end up doing it on a Mac.
not if you have a file system that defrags on the fly:)

Voted Mac, have used, sold and and owned both since the Mac classic and Intel 286.

Work its PC all the way, home it is Mac all the way. I just don,t need the hassle at home.

[Tony-S]

The most time-consuming task on that list by far is the HD defrag, and if you're going to bother to do it on a PC you'll probably end up doing it on a Mac.

OS X does this on its own, usually when the computer is idle.

[bacchanal]

All PC currently (Vista64 and XP64). Thinking about picking up a macbook for travel though (or maybe a Dell mini10). Really I've always leaned PC though. I'm a hardware guy and former overclocker.

I really don't understand the big deal with PC vs. Mac as they basically run similar hardware and I honestly don't spend a lot of time thinking about my OS.

I'd probably go with one of the 8 core macs if I could afford one. ;)

[Colorblinded]

OS X does this on its own, usually when the computer is idle.
So can a PC with much nicer aftermarket defrag software that lets you configure how it should perform defrags. Otherwise you can have it set up to defrag overnight for instance which my desktop does. I've noticed far less hassles with fragmentation in Vista than in XP but it was still easily managed in XP you just needed a third party tool more.

[disorder]

dead heat boys and girls.

[Tony-S]

So can a PC with much nicer aftermarket defrag software that lets you configure how it should perform defrags.

Please read the comment to which I responded, which is that Macs don't need such intervention. That's all. Don't make something out of it that it isn't.

[Colorblinded]

Please read the comment to which I responded, which is that Macs don't need such intervention. That's all. Don't make something out of it that it isn't.
I actually know how OSX handles the file system, I just didn't feel like getting in to explaining that. Since you have, I don't need to.

[LuckyRobJ]

I was going to respond to this thread yesterday but I got caught up in defragging my HD, updating the Virus package, verifying what it found, downloading some OS updates, re-booting a few times to get them installed and doing some basic tunig functions. No time left.

BTW - I'm on a PC.

The wife uses the Mac which is where I will go as soon as I can afford one.

This was a factor for me too. Too often I found myself fixing, troubleshooting, reinstalling, etc. when I just wanted to do one simple task. And I was running a clean install of XP. Windows just doesn't handle media as well. Even on my girlfriend's year-old vista laptop I have to be "the IT guy" and perform regular maintenance on it every few months.

I haven't had to do any of this with the Mac so far, and I've installed and removed many apps. The OS is superior.

[Yogesh Sarkar]

PC any day as I can pick and choose the parts I want and not worry about hardware and software compatibility (have built 4 systems (3 AMD and 1 Intel) in past decade and no compatibility issue so far.

I was going to respond to this thread yesterday but I got caught up in defragging my HD, updating the Virus package, verifying what it found, downloading some OS updates, re-booting a few times to get them installed and doing some basic tunig functions. No time left.

BTW - I'm on a PC.

The wife uses the Mac which is where I will go as soon as I can afford one.
You manually update virus definitions? Almost all virus scanners do this on their own and the same is true for OS updates and virus scanning.

[Titus213]

PC any day as I can pick and choose the parts I want and not worry about hardware and software compatibility (have built 4 systems (3 AMD and 1 Intel) in past decade and no compatibility issue so far.


You manually update virus definitions? Almost all virus scanners do this on their own and the same is true for OS updates and virus scanning.

Because it's a PC very little gets put on it without my knowledge. I check the virus vaults daily, insure the overnight update was completed and doesn't need a restart (which they do on occasion), check that the automatic scan was completed OK, and OS updates download automatically but I review them before they are installed.

You trust MS to update your machine unattended?

[Thalagyrt]

I run OSX on a standard PC, so I suppose both? :)

[Colorblinded]

Because it's a PC very little gets put on it without my knowledge. I check the virus vaults daily, insure the overnight update was completed and doesn't need a restart (which they do on occasion), check that the automatic scan was completed OK, and OS updates download automatically but I review them before they are installed.

You trust MS to update your machine unattended?
You put too much thought in to all that. I'll do MS updates (but I pick what I want) every few weeks at best.

[Yogesh Sarkar]

Because it's a PC very little gets put on it without my knowledge. I check the virus vaults daily, insure the overnight update was completed and doesn't need a restart (which they do on occasion), check that the automatic scan was completed OK, and OS updates download automatically but I review them before they are installed.

You trust MS to update your machine unattended?
Which virus scanner are you using? I have so far used Norton, McAfee and use Kaspersky now and none of them need to reboot the system (barring the first update where they download software updates). Heck the Kaspersky updates the scanner and checks for updates every couple of hours or so and it doesn't need any monitoring for it.

As for windows update, I only have the notifications enabled and allow it to download patches when the computer is free, only to ensure that it doesn't bothers me in the middle of work.

Updates don't really need much reviewing as no update so far has caused any problem and I always have the OS patched up to latest updates. In any case, who has the time to see what the updates are for and then go through the message boards to see if any one has reported any issues with them. If they work they work, if they lock up something, you can always uninstall them or just format the primary drive and reinstall windows (never needed to do this cause of updates).

[Titus213]

I use AVG (I consider Norton and McAfee to be viruses themselves). I may try Kaspersky in the future. I've never had a problem with a virus on my machine so I'll just continue doing business my way. It makes me feel safe.

And yes, I review the MS updates. It's bloatware. The last time I let it run unattended (for a client, not myself), it ended up loading IE7. That's something I don't want or need as an example.

But the bottom line is that my original comment was lighthearted and not intended to rile the masses even if it is basically true. Evidently PC guys are easily riled. Sorry. It will push me to the Mac world even faster.

[seesaw]

Been designing for 10years on macs, don't know any different, and don't want to, does everything i need and my brother loves the fact he can get his emails from it, while his PC is getting fixed.

[fi20100]

Having a background in IT and IS, I had been using Windows (and even DOS) from the beginning. Switched to Mac a little bit more than a year ago and I couldn't be happier.

[bacchanal]

I use AVG (I consider Norton and McAfee to be viruses themselves). I may try Kaspersky in the future. I've never had a problem with a virus on my machine so I'll just continue doing business my way. It makes me feel safe.

Kaspersky is about as good as it gets. I've been using Avast (free) lately, and am quite pleased with it, though the default interface is a bit odd.

[ssracer]

PC here. I really like the MAC (I have a firend who had a macbook and a 24" iMac), but they are just out of my price range...lol.

[In2Photos]

Because it's a PC very little gets put on it without my knowledge. I check the virus vaults daily, insure the overnight update was completed and doesn't need a restart (which they do on occasion), check that the automatic scan was completed OK, and OS updates download automatically but I review them before they are installed.

You trust MS to update your machine unattended?
Absolutely not! I approve any updates. I don't want something like the "Authentication Verification" crap on my machine. I bought my copy, registered it and now you want to verify that it is authentic? Kiss my butt MS!
I use AVG (I consider Norton and McAfee to be viruses themselves). I may try Kaspersky in the future. I've never had a problem with a virus on my machine so I'll just continue doing business my way. It makes me feel safe.


I too use AVG. The last time I had Norton it told me that I had two trojans on my machine. A google search revealed that Symantec was the only source of any info on the trojan! So where did it come from? :rolleyes:


And yes, I review the MS updates. It's bloatware. The last time I let it run unattended (for a client, not myself), it ended up loading IE7. That's something I don't want or need as an example.


Same here. I hated when my laptop got IE7 loaded on it "automatically".


But the bottom line is that my original comment was lighthearted and not intended to rile the masses even if it is basically true. Evidently PC guys are easily riled. Sorry. It will push me to the Mac world even faster.

I got the joke, and still think it was rather funny! :lol:

[Moppie]

I love Macs, they are well designed, good looking, well built and generally well enginered. Apple makes a great complete and stable system.

However I can't see myself ever owning one, or ever recomending one to another photograher.

There are simply to many compromises.

The Macbooks would be fantastic, except as photographers we need to be able to get the photos off of our cameras, and onto portable drives for storage and back up.
Most laptops now days have a built in card reader, 3-4 USB ports, Firewire 800 and the higher end ones now come with e-SATA as well.
The macbook only has 2 USB ports. Thats it.
Good luck using a seperate keyboard and mouse while downloading images or backing up to a remote drive.
The Macbook Pro does add a 3rd USB port and Firewire 800, but still no e-SATA or card reader.

Most laptops also come with a VGA or now a DVi output for using a second monitor.
Not the Macbooks. They use a "Mini DisplayPort" which is great for connecting to the new Apple displays, but requires (at extra cost) a special adaptor to connect to DVi or VGA displays.
If you like to use your laptop in different locations and attach it to different screens then you know you are going to lose that adaptor some where.

Of course laptops are always going to be compromising power and functionality for size and portablity. It is why people still buy desk tops, and why there will be a market for them for a long time to come.

Which leads us to the iMac. The desk top that isn't.
It features laptop levels of performance with desk top levels of portablity.
The all in one design is nice, and it does look good.
But it all falls over when you want to add things to it.
As photographers we need to be able to get the photos off of our cameras, and onto portable drives for storage and back up (you've heard this before aye?).
So you add a USB card reader and a USB or Firewire (still no e-SATA port) portable drive. Actually you add 2, because you ran out of space on the iMac internal drive and it is not user upgradable.
So your nice, clean desk that used to look cool and cable free with the all in one iMac on it is now cluttered with USB, Firewire and power cables for your card reader and remote drives.

Oh, and there is that "Mini DisplayPort" again which requires an adaptor (at extra cost) to connect to a second conventional VGA or DVi screen.

I won't even get into upgrading an iMac because you can't. You can't even change your monitor.

Of course the Macbooks and iMac are consumer systems, and they are possibly some of the best consumer computing systems around. Which is great if your the sort of consumer who fits into Apples target market.
If your a photographer who is serious about photography then you don't fit that tarket market, and if you still want a Macbook or iMac you are going to have to deal with the compromises.

Which leads us to the Mac Pro.

I WANT A MAC PRO! :twisted::twisted:
But, I don't need, nor can I afford a server wrapped up in a desk top box.
If you ignore OS-X not being able to fully utilise the power of the new Mac Pro, and believe that the next OS-X release will fix that, then the Mac Pro is one of the most powerful computer systems available on the consumer market.
But it is simply more power than most people will ever need. If your doing lots of proffesional work with a 1Ds3 or a medium format camera than it would be useful, and the extra performance would pay for itself over the course of a year.

But there is still a big compromise here, one of cost.
It still doesn't have an e-SATA port either.




I was going to respond to this thread yesterday but I got caught up in defragging my HD, updating the Virus package, verifying what it found, downloading some OS updates, re-booting a few times to get them installed and doing some basic tunig functions. No time left.

BTW - I'm on a PC.

The wife uses the Mac which is where I will go as soon as I can afford one.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Colorblinded]

All good points Moppie.

Beyond that historically I haven't been that happy with Apple's laptop designs. Screens may be too low of a resolution, I dislike slot load drives, in terms of durability they're not that great. There are just better laptops overall for something I want to carry around and handle unintentional abuse.

And for a desktop while the Mac Pros are quite nice it is as you said, and I can get much better value for my money and better hardware flexibility by building my own desktop. The iMac... it's a glorified laptop with a big screen glued on it.

[nphsbuckeye]

I was going to say that I use PCs because Macs are priced to keep people from getting them, and I can't imagine them really being worth the extra cost. However, I like using them and if I could afford one, I would probably buy one. Double however, moppie brings some food for thought (don't like that cliche, but twas the first thing I thought of).

[Dan-o]

2- Macs
3- PCs so I voted PC.

[Scott007]

Currently a PC user, but can't wait to upgrade to a Mac!

[wlescall]

I WANT A MAC PRO! :twisted::twisted:
But, I don't need, nor can I afford a server wrapped up in a desk top box.
If you ignore OS-X not being able to fully utilise the power of the new Mac Pro, and believe that the next OS-X release will fix that, then the Mac Pro is one of the most powerful computer systems available on the consumer market.
But it is simply more power than most people will ever need. If your doing lots of proffesional work with a 1Ds3 or a medium format camera than it would be useful, and the extra performance would pay for itself over the course of a year.

But there is still a big compromise here, one of cost.
It still doesn't have an e-SATA port either.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You might want to keep watching the online Apple Store for a refurbished model. The previous generation 8 core 2.8 GHz Pros occasionally show up for $2399 - a pretty good deal.

[computerguru3190]

I run both operating systems on a Macbook Pro and a Mac Pro tower. I use windows for a lot of networking features and tethered shooting in studio. All editing goes through the Mac OS. Both have advantages and quirks.

[Moppie]

You might want to keep watching the online Apple Store for a refurbished model. The previous generation 8 core 2.8 GHz Pros occasionally show up for $2399 - a pretty good deal.



With the dollar at its current rate, that is still twice what I paid for my current system.
A Mac Pro might be twice as powerful, but I don't need a machine that is twice as powerful :cool:
Maybe when I'm in a position to buy things that excessive I'll get one.

[Damo77]

Have dabbled with both, but will never own a Mac again.

[ChasP505]

At home I use a PC simply because I don't have the budget for a Mac. And having a technical bent, I have never experienced the frustrations that a lot of PC users whine about. At the office we use Macs for certain tasks (graphic design and Quark) and PCs for everything else.

Also...My laptop runs Ubuntu Linux.

[Titus213]

At home I use a PC simply because I don't have the budget for a Mac. And having a technical bent, I have never experienced the frustrations that a lot of PC users whine about. At the office we use Macs for certain tasks (graphic design and Quark) and PCs for everything else.

Also...My laptop runs Ubuntu Linux.

That sounds like something there should be a pill for.:lol:

[Veemac]

I've used PC's since the MS-DOS days, but switched to Mac a couple months ago and have no regrets whatsoever. My laptop and desktop are now both Macs (Macbook / iMac), my wife's are both PC's (XP; no Vista allowed in this household). I also have one ancient desktop running Puppy Linux just for fun.

[BeritOlam]

http://i41.tinypic.com/2dgnzuw.jpg

bw! bw! bw! bw!

[grimm5577]

i just switched to mac... i will probably never buy a PC again.

[Dan-o]

I have a pc desktop, 2- pc laptops and 2- Macbooks. Don't really care, they all get the job done.

[Tony-S]

Just upgraded the hackintosh with another 1.5 tb hard drive. Man the 5Dii video really eats up hard drive space.

[airfrogusmc]

I'm both right now. Prefer Mac.

[mathogre]

Mac. MacBook and iMac.

[basroil]

7 Windows PC (1 out of commission due to broken HDD) 1 Power PC Macintosh (froze randomly, now broken, reasons unknown). Uptime for PC (time on (,standby, or hibernate)/total time plugged in) >99.9%. Uptime for Mac (before decommission, again, on, standby, or hibernate) <95%.

[Gordeez]

MacBook Pro here

[bubba zanetti]

made the switch over to mac last friday. so far, i am very pleased.

I made the switch to mac about 15 months back....i now know how a computer should run. My only regret is the time it took me to get to a mac.

[airfrogusmc]

I made the switch to mac about 15 months back....i now know how a computer should run. My only regret is the time it took me to get to a mac.

++++1 nice aint it?

[timnosenzo]

Mac.

Made the switch about 9 years ago, I'll never buy another PC again. Ever.

[Thalagyrt]

PC. Made the switch back from Apple in late 2007, after AppleCare screwed me over for the third time, this time wanting $1000 to fix something that was clearly covered in warranty and should have been a $200 fix tops if not covered in warranty. They blamed a factory defect on the fact that my laptop's case had a scratch on it. Some people don't understand computer components, and Apple's "Geniuses" seem to fall into that category. I'll never buy another Apple product again.

[basroil]

PC. Made the switch back from Apple in late 2007, after AppleCare screwed me over for the third time, this time wanting $1000 to fix something that was clearly covered in warranty and should have been a $200 fix tops if not covered in warranty. They blamed a factory defect on the fact that my laptop's case had a scratch on it. Some people don't understand computer components, and Apple's "Geniuses" seem to fall into that category. I'll never buy another Apple product again.

To be fair though, I've see the same thing happen with HP and dells too, though I've always managed to talk them into accepting responsibility.

[Thalagyrt]

To be fair though, I've see the same thing happen with HP and dells too, though I've always managed to talk them into accepting responsibility.

Yea, but that depends on the branch of the company you deal with. I always deal with their business divisions, and Dell's especially is amazing. If something breaks, no questions asked they'll ship you the part and you can do the fix yourself, or if you don't think you can do the fix they'll have someone on site that day (if it's before 3 PM) or the next day. Dell's business support is absolutely superb, and all you need to get that is to buy one of the business models - Precision, Latitude, or Vostro. ;)

[basroil]

Yea, but that depends on the branch of the company you deal with. I always deal with their business divisions, and Dell's especially is amazing. If something breaks, no questions asked they'll ship you the part and you can do the fix yourself, or if you don't think you can do the fix they'll have someone on site that day (if it's before 3 PM) or the next day. Dell's business support is absolutely superb, and all you need to get that is to buy one of the business models - Precision, Latitude, or Vostro. ;)

I know I love my premier account higher education service :D

[atlgeek]

we have 1 iMac, 4 PCs. Prefer to have a MacBook Pro but saving up for 5D2 first! :D

[Dan-o]

2- MacBooks 2- PC laptops, 3- pc desktops. I don't understand the fascination with Mac but to each their own. They all do what I ask without any problems.

[rooeey]

How long will it be before we have to include Linux and OS Chrome in these polls ???

[MaxxuM]

How long will it be before we have to include Linux and OS Chrome in these polls ???

Google's OS isn't going to be for serious photographers IMO - it's more about cloud computing than anything. If you want to share and store picture's it'll be great but that's it. BTW, Google's OS is Linux. And Linux remains the 'geeks' OS and will probably remain so for a while. It's powerful, reliable and flexible, but it's still too difficult for the average user. Apple did good with FreeBSD and Google will probably make theirs pretty easy too. Without a ton of capitol and smarts Linux just can't come into it's own. Gnome and KDE really need a good rebuild.

[ngrohosky]

i love mac. the price difference is worth it because it is proven that on average for every Mac you own, you would have gone through 3 PCs (in the life of one mac). plus its sooo simple.

[basroil]

i love mac. the price difference is worth it because it is proven that on average for every Mac you own, you would have gone through 3 PCs (in the life of one mac). plus its sooo simple.

I'm sure the same place that proved that also proved the sun circles around the earth. Sure apple makes good hardware, but so do many other pc companies. Hell, my dell lasted about five times longer than my mac (over 9yrs vs under 2 years), and my laptop has lasted longer than many of my friend's macbooks. And sorry, but I like keyboard shortcuts in the same place since I was born rather than jumping all over the place (like dashboard on older macs vs newer ones). Simplicity and beauty (of UI) are all in the eye of the beholder.

Mac vs PC arguments are really OSX vs Windows arguments. Macs are a subset of PCs, therefore not all PCs are Macs, but all Macs are PCs. For a mac to be better than a pc, a mac needs to be better than itself, and we reach the inevitable conclusion of the mac vs pc argument.

Though things like ipod touches and iPhones make things more complicated (as do WinMo phones and devices to an extent). Those run a subset of OSX (or full Windows CE), yet you can't consider them full PCs.



EDIT: Ok, not since I was born for all features, but at least nothing's changed place since it was added.

[blackwize]

Been using macs for about 7 years. Hard to beat.

[lunasicc]

i honestly cant STAND how everything works on macs,the operating system is WACK..we have two in the house and i hate them with a passion.

take a nice new mac that costs 2 g's(or however much a really nice mac costs) and take that amount and dump it into a custom built pc and the pc will completely dominate on the mac in pretty much everything..
i built my computer about 8 months ago and it 100% destroys my sisters mac

[wlescall]

EDIT: Ok, not since I was born for all features, but at least nothing's changed place since it was added.

The first UI that I had to get used to was punch cards. ANYTHING, even Windows ME ;) , is an improvement over that. :lol:

[Grimage]

Why discriminate against those who have both? I can't vote.

I use both too... but my actual bf calls me a PCtard... Pfff.... well, I use Mac a lot more often, and I only edit on my Mac ... :rolleyes:

(PC is for games.... :o)

[makande]

How long will it be before we have to include Linux and OS Chrome in these polls ???

Agreed!

Linux Ubuntu user here!!!

[MaxxuM]

i honestly cant STAND how everything works on macs,the operating system is WACK..we have two in the house and i hate them with a passion.

take a nice new mac that costs 2 g's(or however much a really nice mac costs) and take that amount and dump it into a custom built pc and the pc will completely dominate on the mac in pretty much everything..
i built my computer about 8 months ago and it 100% destroys my sisters mac

Sorry to hear that. It sounds like you may have either software or a hardware problem. Unix is far more reliable than Windows. You might want to look at software first and remove all the third party stuff first.

:cool:

[maxblack]

Mac. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

[red-barron]

I use both windows systems and apple systems so I guess I'm not biased. For what I do which mainly consists of photo editing, I would take a mac over a pc any day. Not saying that pc's can't beat a mac in post processing (i'm sure they can), but I just like the way the system runs, the ease of use with the operating system, etc. I've used windows for a lot longer than macs and I have been frustrated with them more. I spent a whole lot of money on a very good custom built gaming system which I put together myself not too long ago and now it runs like a heap of **** and struggles to play games at a decent resolution. This whole upgrade cycle just isn't worth it in my opinion. The rate they bring out new cpu's and video cards is ridiculous. Better off sticking to a console system with a large high-def tv and great speakers and that system will run a lot longer. I sold my 2 year old white macbook recently which I originally bought brand new for $1600 aussie dollars. Sold it 2 years later for over $960 aussie dollars on ebay. The buyer was happy and so was I. I've now spent that money on another apple system. Show me a good pc system that will hold its value that well. Heck, my once expensive gaming system probably wouldn't even fetch me a quarter of what I originally spent on it!

My two cents worth

[dmax]

Mac Book Pro ---- Mac on one partition of the hard drive and windows on the other. I use the windows side more because I have the windows version of photoshop. (purchased before I bought my Pro) As far as design and features they can't be beat.

[basroil]

Mac Book Pro ---- Mac on one partition of the hard drive and windows on the other. I use the windows side more because I have the windows version of photoshop. (purchased before I bought my Pro) As far as design and features they can't be beat.

Dunno about features, can they use the expresscard 56 dual esata card i use for my external hdds? ;)

[Thalagyrt]

Yea, and what about the built in WWAN card that lets me get online anywhere Sprint has service that's built into my Vostro 1700? I don't see a single Apple notebook that has that option. Or how about two hard drives in RAID 1 in the laptop?

Features that can't be beat? In some alternate reality maybe.

[MaxxuM]

Dunno about features, can they use the expresscard 56 dual esata card i use for my external hdds? ;)

Yea, and what about the built in WWAN card that lets me get online anywhere Sprint has service that's built into my Vostro 1700? I don't see a single Apple notebook that has that option. Or how about two hard drives in RAID 1 in the laptop?

Features that can't be beat? In some alternate reality maybe.

PC's have a long history of feature implementation and disappearance. The vast majority of users will not be using any of the features you mentioned - but they will use the OS and can appreciate a stylish well thought out design. I have yet to see anyone match or exceed Apple's touch pad technology for under $2,000 for instance. When I go to Best Buy I sometimes check out a dozen or so laptops and every time I'm disappointed with their touch pads. Made of cheap plastic or metal none have the comfort or feel of my MBP. Then I have a look-see at what's loading at startup and have to laugh. One HP actually had a full page and a half of startup items!

No, PC's are starting to feel the crunch these days. With Apple's simple & eloquent design, Snow Leopard's innovation and a public's desire for something fresh and different PC's are loosing ground. Apple is now #1 in laptop sales above the $1,000 mark (CNN & Amazon stats), #1 in customer satisfaction (Consumer Reports, CNET & PC Magazine), #1 in support (Consumer Reports) and best in class look, feel and weight... Well, it's hard to ignore an Apple. Been on a college campus lately - Apple's seem to be extremely popular with college kids these days.

On the business side, Apple was the only computer manufacture that grew this last quarter. Though most PC companies reported profits this was mostly due to layoffs and plant closures. PC companies also have a much smaller margin for profits (3-4% in come cases), meaning they have to sell two to three times as many computers as Apple just to make a profit. Great for customers but very bad for business.

[agphotography]

I was never a PC user by choice, it's just what was available to me. When I bought MY first computer it was a mac. a 17" Powerbook G4. I've not looked back once.

I even worked for Apple for 3 years lol!

[lowrider]

PC - never had a reason to even think of switching. Especially after having to use Macs in graphic design classes.

Same here except in reverse. I've been using a Mac since 1985. PC at that time used DOS, what a nightmare that was. I also worked Part Time for Apple, at the turn of the century, as a retail Rep, before they opened their stores. I just love the elegance of the system. Before I retired from working in 2007, I was forced to use a PC, XP, and I hated the darn thing.

Lou

[BeritOlam]

I tend to trust broad consumer reports (or sales numbers) over *individual* experiences on Mac or Windows. Sure, given the sheer #'s of these computers, it's not hard to find PC malcontents out there -- if you sell some many millions of computers with software a year, it's impossible not to expect a few people that get lemons.

However, speaking as a technical guy, MS is not a great system. The cosmetics (GUI) of Vista were an improvement over XP....but unfortunately "under the hood" of Vista left people with all sorts of problems.

If you have an XP/Vista system that doesn't crash....then consider yourself lucky! :P :P

[Bobster]

Mac since '84 but prefer the bang for buck of home brewed PC

[Jim G]

I built my own PCs for years until the last computer... where I went Mac. For my needs it's just dandy though I still think you can get better bang for your buck building your own computer than just about any other option that's out there.

This time around, though, I wanted a cohesive solution that was going to last a long time and hopefully give me less trouble over time... so I went Mac after using the fiancee's Macbook Pro for a while.

Definitely a good move for my needs. It's been utterly hassle-free for months now and the bonus there is that I get all the joy of being able to add/remove up to four hard drives as I please as well as put expansion cards in should I need more USB ports, add more RAM later as needed etc. etc. etc. - so all the good bits of what I liked about a PC with a few less software headaches. Works for me.

I'd go back through it all in the same way, though - for my budget and needs PCs suited me for years and they would again were I in the same place. Horses for courses.

[basroil]

PC's have a long history of feature implementation and disappearance. The vast majority of users will not be using any of the features you mentioned - but they will use the OS and can appreciate a stylish well thought out design. I have yet to see anyone match or exceed Apple's touch pad technology for under $2,000 for instance. When I go to Best Buy I sometimes check out a dozen or so laptops and every time I'm disappointed with their touch pads. Made of cheap plastic or metal none have the comfort or feel of my MBP.


You more or less proved my point. You can't say a Mac is the best computer anymore than you can say that dewalt is the best powertool company. Each person has different criteria for picking computers, and mine just happen to be different enough that Apple just doesn't want to care about me and others like me. That's fine by me, I just go somewhere else for my computing needs since they actually cater to my needs (by luck or by choice, doesn't really matter how or why). To me, a Mac is a POS, and to you it's exactly what you need. Guess "one man's garbage is another man's treasure" does make sense in the computing realm as well.

And as for "vast majority", a vast majority of users use programs that are simply not available on macs (walk into a college that has free cable and the number of media center users is huge, walk into an engineering firm and it's still all windows since mac versions of the major packages didn't come out until june). So yes, they will care about the OS, but that doesn't mean that it's all positive marks for OSX. I'll stick to windows when making a bluray media center (plan on it so I can watch japanese blurays without worrying about region 2 crap from dvds) thank you very much.

[lunasicc]

Sorry to hear that. It sounds like you may have either software or a hardware problem. Unix is far more reliable than Windows. You might want to look at software first and remove all the third party stuff first.

:cool:

no there good,clean running macs..thats just my opinion.lol

[MaxxuM]

You more or less proved my point. You can't say a Mac is the best computer anymore than you can say that dewalt is the best powertool company. Each person has different criteria for picking computers, and mine just happen to be different enough that Apple just doesn't want to care about me and others like me. That's fine by me, I just go somewhere else for my computing needs since they actually cater to my needs (by luck or by choice, doesn't really matter how or why). To me, a Mac is a POS, and to you it's exactly what you need. Guess "one man's garbage is another man's treasure" does make sense in the computing realm as well.

And as for "vast majority", a vast majority of users use programs that are simply not available on macs (walk into a college that has free cable and the number of media center users is huge, walk into an engineering firm and it's still all windows since mac versions of the major packages didn't come out until june). So yes, they will care about the OS, but that doesn't mean that it's all positive marks for OSX. I'll stick to windows when making a bluray media center (plan on it so I can watch japanese blurays without worrying about region 2 crap from dvds) thank you very much.

What point did I confirm? If it was to affirm your personal feelings, well, you don't need me or anyone else to do that. You're going to feel what you feel regardless of anything I say. And I'm not going to try to convince you when you've already 'proven to yourself'. What I am willing to do is to provide empirical as well as statistical information for the reader that has not already come to a conclusion.

At least we are making progress with your personal feelings though :) You've come out and admitted your personal bias ("Mac is a POS") and "... Apple just doesn't want to care about me...". ;)

no there good,clean running macs..thats just my opinion.lol

If you speak of housekeeping, that's up to the user. However, that is not what I was speaking to. I refer to OS X clean programing methodology. It's a far cry better than relying on thousands of DLL's, a Registry that when subject to corruption can hamper performance for every program as well as the OS and an antiquated 20 year old file system that was borrowed from another company. Windows has become so complex that no one could tell you what's in there anymore. UNIX is simple in comparison!

[Thalagyrt]

What point did I confirm? If it was to affirm your personal feelings, well, you don't need me or anyone else to do that. You're going to feel what you feel regardless of anything I say. And I'm not going to try to convince you when you've already 'proven to yourself'. What I am willing to do is to provide empirical as well as statistical information for the reader that has not already come to a conclusion.

At least we are making progress with your personal feelings though :) You've come out and admitted your personal bias ("Mac is a POS") and "... Apple just doesn't want to care about me...". ;)



If you speak of housekeeping, that's up to the user. However, that is not what I was speaking to. I refer to OS X clean programing methodology. It's a far cry better than relying on thousands of DLL's, a Registry that when subject to corruption can hamper performance for every program as well as the OS and an antiquated 20 year old file system that was borrowed from another company. Windows has become so complex that no one could tell you what's in there anymore. UNIX is simple in comparison!

NTFS is not an antiquated 20 year old file system. It's actually a better and more resiliant file system than the HFS+ that you use on your Mac. You may be thinking of FAT32, which is not used anymore save for external hard drives and thumb drives.

[basroil]

file system that was borrowed from another company.
Isn't HFS+ a modified version of HFS, which came out more than 20 years ago (for your info, NTFS was 1993, HFS was 1985, and HFS+ was 1998, but I think you already knew that)? Hell, it can't use dates past Feb 2040 due to poor design. If NTFS was copied from IBM (was a joint project at first, then IBM only, then NTFS took ideas from that project), then HFS+ was Apple's attempt to catch up to NTFS by borrowing a lot of ideas from it, and applying them to HFS. And forget about "Apple's" next generation filesystem, it's entirely a Sun Microsystems design, they didn't even copy ideas, they just entirely used someone else's file system. But of course, Apple can do no wrong :rolleyes:.



And I guess you don't really read posts. I said macs were as good as garbage to me because they didn't have the things I needed. Then again, many dell, hp, and especially sony laptops also are garbage to me. But at least those companies do have at least one model that interests me and has all the requirements I have, so in a sense they cater to my needs.

[MaxxuM]

NTFS is not an antiquated 20 year old file system. It's actually a better and more resiliant file system than the HFS+ that you use on your Mac. You may be thinking of FAT32, which is not used anymore save for external hard drives and thumb drives.

No, I meant what I said. NTFS was developed in the early 90's and was designed from HPFS. It is pretty aged. See basroil's post below.

Isn't HFS+ a modified version of HFS, which came out more than 20 years ago (for your info, NTFS was 1993, HFS was 1985, and HFS+ was 1998, but I think you already knew that)? Hell, it can't use dates past Feb 2040 due to poor design. If NTFS was copied from IBM (was a joint project at first, then IBM only, then NTFS took ideas from that project), then HFS+ was Apple's attempt to catch up to NTFS by borrowing a lot of ideas from it, and applying them to HFS. And forget about "Apple's" next generation filesystem, it's entirely a Sun Microsystems design, they didn't even copy ideas, they just entirely used someone else's file system. But of course, Apple can do no wrong :rolleyes:.

And I guess you don't really read posts. I said macs were as good as garbage to me because they didn't have the things I needed. Then again, many dell, hp, and especially sony laptops also are garbage to me. But at least those companies do have at least one model that interests me and has all the requirements I have, so in a sense they cater to my needs.

Exactly why Apple is moving to the next generation of file systems. HFS+ does not meet the needs of a new generation of computer storage requirements. There's only so much you can squeeze out of tech from Windows NT which came from HPFS OS/2.

Windows is unwilling to move to a better file system because it would alienate too many people/businesses. They have become a slave to their own success. With each new Windows there are people who say 'this will be the version that they will drop NTFS or the Registry', but it never happens.

And I never said Apple 'does no wrong'. That is just the impression you're getting because you hate Apple. I can admit Apple has done plenty wrong, including poor business practices, technology theft (may well as be), treating their employee bass poorly at times, using antiquated technology to gain a buck... I could go on and on. Yet, however bad Apple has been I can attest to Microsoft's being a far better exploiter. I'm witness to it just about every day. For instance, in just one day I had two entirely new problems with Windows. I also found out that Windows 7 does not like the shipped tool kits and sdk's from 2003 server's so I'm off to research those. I guess I should be happy we primarily use Windows based networking, else I would be out of a job ;)

[Thalagyrt]

Microsoft has made tremendous improvements to NTFS over the past few releases... I'm no Microsoft fanboy by any means. Heck, I worked on the core internals of FreeBSD's kernel for a very specific application to make it work with some proprietary hardware. It wasn't anything important enough to release into public, and it's a project that's long since dead, but my understanding of the inner workings of Linux, the various 4.4BSD systems, as well as OS X's messed up kernel in a kernel is far beyond that of even most advanced users. The kernel I/O scheduler in OS X is all kinds of messed up. ;)

[wlescall]

I wasn't sure, but I had thought that NTFS had its origins in OS/2's HPFS which was mid to late 1980's.

[Thalagyrt]

I wasn't sure, but I had thought that NTFS had its origins in OS/2's HPFS which was mid to late 1980's.

It does, but it's been constantly improved upon and doesn't really share much if even anything of its roots aside from the usage of B+ trees for the directory structure.

[basroil]

I wasn't sure, but I had thought that NTFS had its origins in OS/2's HPFS which was mid to late 1980's.

One month from being made in the 90's actually. But then again, HFS+ currently used in OSX has it's roots in HFS (bit more than just roots actually), and that was made in 85. Any way you slice it, all file systems currently used by apple, microsoft, and the linux community are based on something that existed in 1985-1989 (linux's ext2/3/4 is based onext, which is based on minix which came out in '87). No real point

It does, but it's been constantly improved upon and doesn't really share much if even anything of its roots aside from the usage of B+ trees for the directory structure.
It's actually quite impressive that they keep updating the standard and still manage not to break compatibility. Also currently has the least number of size restrictions of any file system (zfs beats it by pooling, but NTFS has the largest single filesystem). Hopefully a v4 implementation takes the pooling ideas from zfs and makes ntfs truely a beast.

[Thalagyrt]

It's also worth mentioning that no other filesystem has the insanely comprehensive permissions system that is built into NTFS. Sure you can do similar stuff with the royal PITA known as SELinux, but that doesn't hit most of the market. OSX has nothing of the sort, though I believe Apple is claiming it will in 10.6.

I can do things with NTFS that I can't even think of doing with any other filesystem. I'm stuck doing crazy hacks with other EXT3 since all of my servers are Debian, but it really doesn't compare in terms of robustness. NTFS will take a lot more beating than even EXT3 without having any trouble at all recovering. Now if only there were a sane way to modify all of these NTFS attributes from the command line...

[MaxxuM]

It's also worth mentioning that no other filesystem has the insanely comprehensive permissions system that is built into NTFS. Sure you can do similar stuff with the royal PITA known as SELinux, but that doesn't hit most of the market. OSX has nothing of the sort, though I believe Apple is claiming it will in 10.6.

I can do things with NTFS that I can't even think of doing with any other filesystem. I'm stuck doing crazy hacks with other EXT3 since all of my servers are Debian, but it really doesn't compare in terms of robustness. NTFS will take a lot more beating than even EXT3 without having any trouble at all recovering. Now if only there were a sane way to modify all of these NTFS attributes from the command line...

But, at it's core it is still stuck in the past. The only reason they have not move on is because they would alienate too many people. Money is more important than innovation.

[Thalagyrt]

But, at it's core it is still stuck in the past. The only reason they have not move on is because they would alienate too many people. Money is more important than innovation.

And you're still skimming the point made that HFS is even older than NTFS's roots, and like the current NTFS, HFS+ is just some extensions made over an old, antiquated, out of date file system.