Another "I can't compete with this" thread

[form]

Another local photographer is actually charging less than me - http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/evs/1103958566.html

Their portfolio has some good stuff and some okay stuff, but jeez...oh well, seems like so many of them are charging less and less now. I'm starting to sound like a more expensive option around here; scary.

[Big Mike]

Good. Them them have the clients who only shop by price. You don't want those types of people as clients anyway.

[harroz]

their photos didn't look as good as I've seen from you Form- and they know it, hence their pricing. Realize, they're looking at you as much as you're looking at them, and they're going, well he's good and he's only charging this much, so we have to be $xx much because we're not as good.

get it?

[5x5 photography]

I have learned that the cheapest options is usually not the best option.

[shaggymatt]

I saw on my local craigslist, someone doing it for completely free. No charge for hosted prints or anything. He gives them a disc of all images and walks away. I'm sure that he doesn't do any retouching, probably gives the JPG's right off of the camera.

Fine by me. Everyone deserves to have pictures taken of their wedding, if someone can't afford it (me) then by all means use someone cheaper and hope for the best. Craigslist jobs are inherently low budget weddings has been my experience, and not worth the energy of pursuit. When a bride asked me to "beat" $100 I responded to her and said, "Would you work for less than minimum wage?"

[form]

Well but I'm still in the budget range, and only a little bit more expensive than their special rate...people who book me are very much price shopping.

[cory1848]

I saw on my local craigslist, someone doing it for completely free. No charge for hosted prints or anything. He gives them a disc of all images and walks away. I'm sure that he doesn't do any retouching, probably gives the JPG's right off of the camera.

Fine by me. Everyone deserves to have pictures taken of their wedding, if someone can't afford it (me) then by all means use someone cheaper and hope for the best. Craigslist jobs are inherently low budget weddings has been my experience, and not worth the energy of pursuit. When a bride asked me to "beat" $100 I responded to her and said, "Would you work for less than minimum wage?"

This is the norm around here... If your not in the high priced "recognized" market then you are most likely in the craigslist market.

Currently I am in the craigslist market, which surprisingly is working out for me. To compete, dont work harder, just offer less. Unfortunately in this economy, price is the first thing people look at and couple "expect" you to lower your price because of the economy. I started a bottom pricing scheme that is barebones images on DVD. This competes with the rest of the ads and I have already upsold a couple on more time. I am seeing that if you are offering weddings starting at $1000 on craigslist, you wont even be looked at.

[form]

I can't offer less and still feel good. I offer retouched images on DVD disc; if I didn't retouch them I wouldn't be at all happy with what I give them.

[Sglshotkw]

His special rate must not include much if you go to his website and see his normal rates, they start at 1000.00 and go up from there

Don't worry you do excellent work and there will people always looking for someone to take thier pictures ;)

[cory1848]

I can't offer less and still feel good. I offer retouched images on DVD disc; if I didn't retouch them I wouldn't be at all happy with what I give them.

Maybe try a different advertising approach? I have found the perception is everything and if you come across as a better value than you shouldnt have to worry about the other guy.

[Peacefield]

I am seeing that if you are offering weddings starting at $1000 on craigslist, you wont even be looked at.

I disagree. I'm a CraigsLister and my base package (just my time, web hosting, and Hi Res DVD) goes for $999. Packages with albums etc, go for up to $2,000. Nearly all of my business comes through CL.

And regarding price, as so many have said here before me, it's almost like perfume. Price cheap and you look cheap. Price like your quality and you look like you're quality (IF you have the portfolio to back it up).

It was only a few months ago my $999 package was going for $650 just to try to pull business forward. Now, with a nice portfolio, I'm at the $999 I wanted to be (nearly a 50% increase) and I'm just as busy now as when I was very cheap. And working with better clients.

[form]

I have a decent portfolio but portfolio doesn't guarantee good quality photography, and I'm very aware that what I do is not always on par with what's on my website.

As for working with better clients....A mom and dad hired me for their daughter's wedding (March 27 photos in the wedding sharing section), and they were very wealthy people. They had the ceremony and reception at one of the nicest and most expensive places in Las Vegas (ritz carlton at Lake Las Vegas) and the venue was really excellent quality. They had live music for the ceremony, hired a live band of 4-5 members for the reception, open bar...and booked a budget photographer for $375 to cover the wedding for 5 hours.

I really felt like I didn't belong on several occasions. I ignored it and kept shooting. But come on...I just could never figure out why they would pay so much for everything else and so little for their photographer.

I'm extremely curious if they're going to be happy or dissatisfied with what I give them in the end. It's not fear or anxiety, but pure curiosity. If they wanted more they should've booked someone who started their packages at $2k and went up from there. I'm sure every other vendor who they hired, as well as the venue itself, charged a LOT more than I did.

They found me on craigslist too, about 8-9 months ago when I was still really fresh in the wedding photography market. Go figure, these rich people hunting for a cheap photographer. I was priced cheap, and they booked me anyway.

[cory1848]

I disagree. I'm a CraigsLister and my base package (just my time, web hosting, and Hi Res DVD) goes for $999. Packages with albums etc, go for up to $2,000. Nearly all of my business comes through CL.

And regarding price, as so many have said here before me, it's almost like perfume. Price cheap and you look cheap. Price like your quality and you look like you're quality (IF you have the portfolio to back it up).

It was only a few months ago my $999 package was going for $650 just to try to pull business forward. Now, with a nice portfolio, I'm at the $999 I wanted to be (nearly a 50% increase) and I'm just as busy now as when I was very cheap. And working with better clients.

If it works for your market, great, however around here you wouldnt be working much. Its purely a market driven business. I think the whole "priced like quality" sayings are an old business model. That applies to any business type as well. Every business is reducing cost, cutting back on things, charging for things they used to give away... etc... Not saying reduce you prices, just advertise the perception you are giving more. If you just charge more and add nothing just to perceive that you are a better photographer, well around here, people see through that really easily.

[DDCSD]

Joey,

I think your biggest problem is an extreme lack of confidence. You produce some great work. Having just looked through your website, I can say that I paid a heck of a lot more than you charge for my wedding photographer and I didn't get as good of photos as what I see there (and I mean the 10 photo sets, not just portfolio).

I honestly think you could charge a lot more and get just as much (probably more) work than what you get now with a little better marketing. Stop thinking of and marketing yourself as a "budget wedding photographer" and you'll go a long ways.

My wife would have killed to have had you shoot our wedding. Heck, I could have flown you out to Florida and put you up in a nice hotel for 3 days and still saved money and gotten better photos.

I think your problem is that you offer everything on a DVD, so you think you need to have 500 shots that are outstanding. I think if you stop looking at your work in terms of quantity, and start looking at the 100 shots that are wall hangers from the day and the other 200 that are excellent and you'll be much happier with your work. I'm not saying don't offer everything, just stop sulking about the few that didn't turn out like you wanted and be happy with what did. Your clients are.


Oh, and that vise shot for "Clara & Chuck - Dec 14, 2008", is abso-freakin-lutely awesome. I'd want a 24x36 hanging next to the bar in my basement if it were me that was in it or took it.

[form]

If I could consistently do 100 wall-hanger shots per wedding that might be one thing. I may get anywhere from 1 to 5 good shots in any wedding, and if any are wall hangers maybe one of them might be. I offer everything on DVD because it's actually much more convenient and simple for me, and there's less overhead. I shoot tons of photos that have limited quality or interest; the few that are worthwhile I will post.

[DDCSD]

If I could consistently do 100 wall-hanger shots per wedding that might be one thing. I may get anywhere from 1 to 5 good shots in any wedding, and if any are wall hangers maybe one of them might be. I offer everything on DVD because it's actually much more convenient and simple for me, and there's less overhead. I shoot tons of photos that have limited quality or interest; the few that are worthwhile I will post.

Well, the 27 shots from the two weddings that you have on your front page are all outstanding shots. The baptism shots are all outstanding as well. Again, you're way too hard on yourself.


I'm not knocking the DVD delivery, I'm just pointing out that you need to stop thinking in terms of filling that DVD up. Realize that you're putting up a lot of quality shots, and that not every single shot you take at a wedding is going to work out.


If you seriously think you only get 1-5 shots a wedding that are "good", you really shouldn't be shooting wedding at any price. Fortunately, you're wrong when you say that.

[harroz]

couldn't agree more.

[form]

They're not outstanding, some are okay and some are good, but maybe 1 in the whole page would be outstanding by any means.

[cory1848]

They're not outstanding, some are okay and some are good, but maybe 1 in the whole page would be outstanding by any means.

Do you tell your clients this when you meet with them? If so, how do you get any work? I agree with DDSCD, you are way to hard on yourself. Are the clients happy when you deliver the photos? That is what matters.

Its one thing to be critical of your own work but you have to be confident as well. If yo don't like your work, why should anyone else?

[form]

To be honest, I hear back from about 60% of my clients as to whether they liked the photos or not. The others never respond/I never hear from them again. Those who respond like the photos.

No, I don't tell them anything about my giving "outstanding" photos or not when I talk to them. I enjoy photography and have some experience with many different environments, but the people who book me shouldn't expect more than I give them for the price because I'm very inexpensive.

[LVPhotos]

Bottom line is you gotta stop thinking "budget" photographer. You are what you present yourself to be.

You know as well as we do that your photography is as good (if not better in many ways) than our stuff, and we're charging a LOT more than you are.

Heck we RAISED our prices by 20-40% this year and we're booking MORE events.

We don't hide anything from our clients. Our blog and our portfolio include great, good, and so-so shots. We tell them up-front that they'll get between 5 and 50 "wall hangers" and the rest will be between snapshot and professional. But, they know their event will be fully covered and that we take a LOT of photos. they also know that not every photo has to be great. The picture of uncle Bill dancing is just as good as a snapshot.

The point is, our samples are REPRESENTATIVE of our work. We don't sugar-coat and we don't create false impressions. The bride knows exactly what she's getting for the price and can hopefully make an informed decision from there.

Give the brides what they want, realize that not every bride is a professional photographer... and also realize that their EXPECTATIONS are nowhere near what you expect of your own work.

Present yourself as a Craigslist Photog and you'll only be able to get CL prices.

I will also say that the idea of charging less and giving less is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!

As I said we raised our prices but we increased the service. On any packages that stayed the same price, we added service (ie. prints or a photo montage). Lowering prices is WRONG and will only put you in a pattern of being low priced.

It is VERY difficult to RAISE prices, and when your price is TOO low, you will miss out on gigs just because they don't trust your professionalism.

I could go on and on, but won't :)

[AlexMoPhotography]

Being unsatisfied with the overall quality of your photos can be a good thing, cause then you'll always strive to shoot better.

[S.Horton]

The link was pulled.

Just a guess, but in Vegas promotion must be a major factor in success.

[FlyingPhotog]

Bottom line is you gotta stop thinking "budget" photographer. You are what you present yourself to be.

<Snip>

Clip And Save Worthy...
Well Said

[G..]

Form, I have just re started weddings after a number of years away from the industry.
When I did weddings before, people would even PAY to place a postcard ad in shop windows offering FREE wedding photography. These were guys just wanting the chance to try their hand, I bet 99% of them did two weddings and gave up. Some just wanted to get experience and have their D&P paid for.

What I am going to say now, took me years with a camera to realise:- YOU can always see how you could do this or that to improve every photo but the client sees THEIR photo's in a totally different light. You must appear happy with your work and confident, then they feel happy spending with you. Your work is fine.

[form]

Although I know that the people I'm taking photos have have their own personal affinity or value for the photos, I still want to be better at what I like. I think the families will appreciate those particular photos that are really excellent technically.

[Spacemunkie]

If I could consistently do 100 wall-hanger shots per wedding that might be one thing. I may get anywhere from 1 to 5 good shots in any wedding, and if any are wall hangers maybe one of them might be. I offer everything on DVD because it's actually much more convenient and simple for me, and there's less overhead. I shoot tons of photos that have limited quality or interest; the few that are worthwhile I will post.

You're looking at everything from the perspective of a decent photographer. The lay person's view is a different beast entirely. Just because a photo aint a 'winner' in your eye doesn't mean it has no worth to the married couple!

You should definitely quit with the self-flagellation. Confidence seems to be your biggest issue!

[dahl]

I have learned that the cheapest options is usually not the best option.
My mom taught me that "the cheapest solution might end up being the most expensive, since you might have to replace or redo it"
When it comes to weddings, you only get one shot. Are most couple willing to risk their wedding pictures not being great, to save some money?
Some will, but many won't risk it and pay the proper going rate.

btw. I know little of wedding photography, but I work in new media and many of the same "problems" occur there as well.

[form]

I capture the key moments with good accuracy most of the time now, like ceremony and reception key points aside from the creative stuff. Obviously I still want to discover creative and interesting new ways to really make the key-event photos stand out, but I pretty much always snag the necessary shots, then try to get the creative ones after if possible. However I don't have much creativity, so...difficult for me.

[FlyingPhotog]

I've always liked this little chestnut (usually found on a sign):

You can have it Good, Fast or Cheap .. Pick Two!

[form]

Can I pick one and get half off?