Outdoor external flash newbie

[Loekito]

Got my new 420EX a couple weeks ago. Playing around with it indoor. Then, last weekend, bring it outside, try to take a photo of small leaves using EF 100mm Macro at near to life-size. My 300D set at M with f4 and 1/200sec.

but...

pressing the shutter, and somehow the 420EX didn't fired at high power at all, leave my image a little bit dull.. how come? is it because the E-TTL detect that it's already bright enough (since it's outside), so it only give a small power flash as a fill-in flash?

Anyone experience this problem also? what is the solution of this problem?

regards,

Loekito

[tim]

What was the distance between the lens and the leaf? What does the histogram look like? Did you check the histogram when you took the shot? If so did you adjust the FEC to compensate (if you've hacked your rebel)? Did you try a larger aperture?

I think that's enough questions for now, answer all them and then i'll think some more ;)

[Todd Jacobsen]

Got my new 420EX a couple weeks ago. Playing around with it indoor. Then, last weekend, bring it outside, try to take a photo of small leaves using EF 100mm Macro at near to life-size. My 300D set at M with f4 and 1/200sec.

but...

pressing the shutter, and somehow the 420EX didn't fired at high power at all, leave my image a little bit dull.. how come? is it because the E-TTL detect that it's already bright enough (since it's outside), so it only give a small power flash as a fill-in flash?

Anyone experience this problem also? what is the solution of this problem?

regards,

Loekito

Loekito,

You setup your camera in manual mode, establishing both shutter and apeture setting. What did you use to provide this as the correct setting?

You did not state FLASH setting (manual or E-TTL).

I believe your ability to utilize E-TTL effectively is somewhat limited if you did not incorporate the flash as part of your desicion process for establishing shutter/apeture settings. Did you check with "*"?

[mblanton]

I have been having the same problem with outdoor fill flash. The way I am trying to correct it is by determining the correct exposure by using the histogram and then adding the flash at -2/3 to -1 (FEC). I have not had much luck setting the camera on program mode and shooting with the flash. You still have to learn to evaluate the overall tonality of the scene you are photographing and adjust the exposure compensation accordingly....I just wish it was that simple. You'll find that alot of people are struggling with this topic. Your camera has a ton of functions and my best suggestion would be that you not try to learn them all at once...it will drive you crazy. Pick one function and stick with it until you have mastered it. So, work on macro photograpy without flash (you will have alot of luck before 9:00 am in most areas) until you have it down and then add flash, but be paitent.

Mike

[tim]

Macro and flash photography are both quite difficult. IMO you need to understand what's going on to be able to do either properly, which is where a basic photography class comes in. If you can't work things out from there, do an advanced class, then read, experiment, experiment, experiment.

[Loekito]

What was the distance between the lens and the leaf? What does the histogram look like? Did you check the histogram when you took the shot? If so did you adjust the FEC to compensate (if you've hacked your rebel)? Did you try a larger aperture?

I think that's enough questions for now, answer all them and then i'll think some more ;)

Thanks Tim, for your reply.

The distance is about +/- 15cm from the leaf to the front-most element of the lens. I didn't check the histogram, but I guess it is more on the dark side, since the image is so dull (lack of brightness).

I didn't try to compensate the flash exposure since I didn't hack my rebel.

Larger aperture meaning smaller f number right? I put the aperture at f4 for purpose to get more DOF, to make all part of the leaf appear sharp from one end to another end, that's why the external flash comes in the picture, since smaller apperture will requires more light (correct me if I'm wrong).

I experience good result using this settings, but using internal pop-up flash, the problem only the harsh shadow it produce since the internal pop-up flash are pointed directly to the object. With the 420EX I hope can solve the shadow problem by tilt the flash head.

regards,

Loekito

[tim]

Yes F low number = wide aperture = shallow depth of field. I usually use F16 or more for macro work, play with http://www.dofmaster.com to work out why.

I suggest you install the wasia hack, and play with FEC. There's not much else you could really do, ETTL's in control of exposure in this situation. You might try increasing your exposure time, but in theory 1/200th should be fine.

[Loekito]

Loekito,

You setup your camera in manual mode, establishing both shutter and apeture setting. What did you use to provide this as the correct setting?

You did not state FLASH setting (manual or E-TTL).

I believe your ability to utilize E-TTL effectively is somewhat limited if you did not incorporate the flash as part of your desicion process for establishing shutter/apeture settings. Did you check with "*"?

Hi Todd, thanks for your reply.

The setup I made because of the same settings I used during taking picture indoor using 420EX. And it gives me very pleasing result with it.

The reason I put the shutter speed at 1/200sec is because it's the fastest speed allowed when using 420EX in normal mode (not in high-sync speed flash). The purpose is to minimize any shaking that will occurs since all the shots are taken hand-held.

Can you tell me how to set 420EX manually? and what parameters for me to set? so far what I know, 420EX are working automaticaly, no manual settings there. and always working in E-TTL mode (except if 420EX used as a slave).

Maybe my approach/technique is wrong, since so far, I'm taking picture not based on the final exposure that I will got, but I'm more prefer to get sharper image first as a main priority (for macro things). The exposure will be adjusted later during post-processing.

Any suggestion will be appreciated.. :) thanks

regards,

Loekito

[Loekito]

I have been having the same problem with outdoor fill flash. The way I am trying to correct it is by determining the correct exposure by using the histogram and then adding the flash at -2/3 to -1 (FEC). I have not had much luck setting the camera on program mode and shooting with the flash. You still have to learn to evaluate the overall tonality of the scene you are photographing and adjust the exposure compensation accordingly....I just wish it was that simple. You'll find that alot of people are struggling with this topic. Your camera has a ton of functions and my best suggestion would be that you not try to learn them all at once...it will drive you crazy. Pick one function and stick with it until you have mastered it. So, work on macro photograpy without flash (you will have alot of luck before 9:00 am in most areas) until you have it down and then add flash, but be paitent.

Mike


Thanks Mike, really appreciate your reply.

To be honest, I'm not capable of reading what the histogram say. I'm only know that it show the distribution of the bright and dark color. Could you please tell me how to relate between histogram and the decision to do any compensation for the correct exposure?

I do a lot of macro shoot in the past, but not using external flash. And you're right, we can get a lot nice picture before 9:00 as long as the sun are shining right. And now, by using external flash, I though there will be more possibilities to get more nicer picture, since by using external flash we can using faster speed meaning minimize hand shaking or freezing the object.

regards,

Loekito

[Loekito]

Yes F low number = wide aperture = shallow depth of field. I usually use F16 or more for macro work, play with http://www.dofmaster.com to work out why.

I suggest you install the wasia hack, and play with FEC. There's not much else you could really do, ETTL's in control of exposure in this situation. You might try increasing your exposure time, but in theory 1/200th should be fine.

Yes Tim, thanks for the url.

Another question is rising. How we can do fill-flash for object with back-lighting situation using 420EX. Is 420EX and it's E-TTL will take care all of this automaticaly? Or do we still to do an exposure lock (pressing "*") first to the object, then recompose to avoid the metering meter into the bright background?

thanks & regards,

Loekito

[tim]

If you want fill flash just use Av, Tv, or M and the 420 will fire automatically as flash fill. If you want to recompose yes use the * button to meter first.

[Loekito]

If you want fill flash just use Av, Tv, or M and the 420 will fire automatically as flash fill. If you want to recompose yes use the * button to meter first.

Thanks Tim. Will explore more on this things.

regards,

Loekito

[Jon]

Can you tell me how to set 420EX manually? and what parameters for me to set? so far what I know, 420EX are working automaticaly, no manual settings there. and always working in E-TTL mode (except if 420EX used as a slave).

You're right - the 420 has no manual settings except for zoom override.

[Todd Jacobsen]

You're right - the 420 has no manual settings except for zoom override.

I believe this means that IF the PW is used to fire the 420, it will fire the 420 at max power.

If the 420 has the capability for fast flash, this usually lowers the power depending on flash rate, but trying to coordinate this with other E-TTL flashes would be difficult.

For E-TTL to WORK on the 420, it needs to get the appropriate signal from the MASTER. If it can get this signal from the MASTER, then you would NOT need the PW.

Really surprised that this flash cannot do manual. I'm new to the flash game but this just seems, well, standard.

[Loekito]

I believe this means that IF the PW is used to fire the 420, it will fire the 420 at max power.

If the 420 has the capability for fast flash, this usually lowers the power depending on flash rate, but trying to coordinate this with other E-TTL flashes would be difficult.

For E-TTL to WORK on the 420, it needs to get the appropriate signal from the MASTER. If it can get this signal from the MASTER, then you would NOT need the PW.

Really surprised that this flash cannot do manual. I'm new to the flash game but this just seems, well, standard.

Sorry Todd, what is IF and PW?

Yup, the 420EX are all automatic out of the box and using E-TTL for is flash exposure calculation method.

And we can override the zoom setting by tilt-ing the flash head, and it will automaticaly lock to 50mm.

regards,

Loekito

[tim]

If I may answer, I believe IF is the word "if", and PW is pocket wizard, a wireless gizmo that lets you shoot without being at the camera.

[Loekito]

If I may answer, I believe IF is the word "if", and PW is pocket wizard, a wireless gizmo that lets you shoot without being at the camera.


I though soo.. hehehe... IF is just the word "if", just confuse since typed in all capital letter heheheh....

yes, it's correct, if using PW (or other things that makes 420EX not connected directy to the camera flash-shoe), the E-TTL capability on 420EX will be turned-off, and 420EX will operate on TTL mode.

it's also same by switching the 420EX in slave mode, and trigger it using it's infra wireless transmitter from other master-capable flash like 550EX, 580EX or ST-E2

[Jon]

ISTR from somewhere around here that the 420EX doesn't play nicely with slave controllers other than the 550EX/580EX/ST-E2 in E-TTL/TTL. Something about only firing once when connected to any shoe other than a Canon-compatible one?

[Todd Jacobsen]

I though soo.. hehehe... IF is just the word "if", just confuse since typed in all capital letter heheheh....

yes, it's correct, if using PW (or other things that makes 420EX not connected directy to the camera flash-shoe), the E-TTL capability on 420EX will be turned-off, and 420EX will operate on TTL mode.

it's also same by switching the 420EX in slave mode, and trigger it using it's infra wireless transmitter from other master-capable flash like 550EX, 580EX or ST-E2

Sorry, I was attempting to accentuate the word "if". I believe your are beginning to see that firing the 420EX with PW (Pocket Wizard) may not meet your needs - particularly if you want to utilize E-TTL.