Controlling Exposure Using Pocket-Wizards

[dpanicc1]

How are you doing it? I have a couple of remote flashes and an on-camera flash. Are you using a flash meter? Histogram? How do you control exposure with your lighting setup with Pocket-Wizards?

Thanks,
Dan

[scottbergerphoto]

I use PW's with my studio lighting. It's all manual and I adjust everything with a Sekonic L358 Meter with the PW Moduel installed so I can fire the lights for metering with my meter. A histogram will only give you the overall exposure. It won't tell you anything about the relative proportions of light from each monolight and from ambient light.
For my portable set up of 3 550 EX's I use wireless ETTL with ratios.

[Harry Settle]

Only thing to add to Scott's comment is that if you are using an on=camera flash as well, you need to either fire the camera remotely and take a reading, or use the camera self-timer and get a reading.

[dpanicc1]

Harry & Scott:

Thank you very much; both responses help a lot. I am shooting weddings and up to this point I have been using two 420s, and one 580 on my 20D. The problem is--and the reason for switching to PW--is the 420s don't fire reliably under Canon control. (I posted another question about PW's next model up for additional control capabilities).

Anyway, If I may ask for additional input (there seems to be a shortage of information on PW exposure control and interaction with on-camera flash on the net--general exposure setup information and more importantly, technique. I use fixed light poles and we don't move the lights. I do not own a meter but I am thinking it may help, thoughts? I really only want the "remote" lights to fill the crowd, and expose the subject with my on-camera flash (which is under closed-loop via the flash exposure system). What impact would the remote light source have on the 20D's flash control system in terms of subject exposure? Initial tests indicate shots are brighter in Av mode (any auto mode) when remotes fire. I guess this makes sense, but the flash exposure system didn't factor the additional light in and the subject appears brighter; the previous test shot without the remote flashes yields a darker subject (slightly). Any comments on measuring and controlling light in this scenerio would be greatly appreaciated.

So I guess, after reading this mess I wrote, I am asking, how would one go about setting up two remotes and one on-camera flash using PWs; moreover, what to measure and how to measure it (it's probably a college course LOL). The 420 flashes don't have a manual mode so they're always full-on. In manual mode in a jam I would stop down until things looked right, but I am looking for a better grasp of the concept.

If you got this far, I hope I worded this correctly and thanks for taking your time to answer me.

Regards,
Dan


Thanks,
Dan

[Todd Jacobsen]

Harry & Scott:

Thank you very much; both responses help a lot. I am shooting weddings and up to this point I have been using two 420s, and one 580 on my 20D. The problem is--and the reason for switching to PW--is the 420s don't fire reliably under Canon control. (I posted another question about PW's next model up for additional control capabilities).

Anyway, If I may ask for additional input (there seems to be a shortage of information on PW exposure control and interaction with on-camera flash on the net--general exposure setup information and more importantly, technique. I use fixed light poles and we don't move the lights. I do not own a meter but I am thinking it may help, thoughts? I really only want the "remote" lights to fill the crowd, and expose the subject with my on-camera flash (which is under closed-loop via the flash exposure system). What impact would the remote light source have on the 20D's flash control system in terms of subject exposure? Initial tests indicate shots are brighter in Av mode (any auto mode) when remotes fire. I guess this makes sense, but the flash exposure system didn't factor the additional light in and the subject appears brighter; the previous test shot without the remote flashes yields a darker subject (slightly). Any comments on measuring and controlling light in this scenerio would be greatly appreaciated.

So I guess, after reading this mess I wrote, I am asking, how would one go about setting up two remotes and one on-camera flash using PWs; moreover, what to measure and how to measure it (it's probably a college course LOL). The 420 flashes don't have a manual mode so they're always full-on. In manual mode in a jam I would stop down until things looked right, but I am looking for a better grasp of the concept.

If you got this far, I hope I worded this correctly and thanks for taking your time to answer me.

Regards,
Dan


Thanks,
Dan

Dan,

The PW's don't do exposure control. They establish "flash fire rate". You need to manually set exposure with each flash group - or use E-TTL (which requires a Master flash to fire the flash groups).

Example: I use my PW to remotely fire the camera. My camera is attached to a bracket with a flash (580EX Cord2). My MASTER Flash is utilized to fire groups A,B, &C so I can incorporate E-TTL.

One method of using my PW's is to use it for GROUP C, but I need to adjust the flash time to match E-TTL of groups A&B. I also have to set up group C flashes (backlighting) to MANUAL (1/1 to 1/128 output).

OR

I just set all flashes to manual and use the lightmeter to establish flash outputs from 1/1 to 1/128 for all groups. Based on lightmeter reading, I establish my MANUAL camera apeture and shutter speeds.

Utilizing the L358, I can get good estimates based off of the shutter speed I used to determine appropriate apeture settings with the lightmeter. Transmitter reading requires one to set a shutter speed - light meter determines apeture. Toggling to other shutter speeds, after initial reading, provides estimated apeture settings to go along with altered shutter speeds.

I have been having problems cross-checking camera settings established using Av and E-TTL with the lightmeter. The lightmeter seems to be going off of the pre-flash that E-TTL fires.

[dpanicc1]

Todd,

THANKS for the detail!

I am leaning towards manual control (your second option) all the way around the system. I gathered some information from Pocket-Wizard directly and they helped a lot too. I'll need the meter for sure to go down this road; frankly it will come in handy for other applications too.

If I am understanding my experimental starting points correctly, I'll set the two remote flash units (420s) and fire all three flashes (420s and 580 on camera) to establish a starting point f-stop. Based on that information I'll adjust the camera manually as I move and change distances, etc. Over time, this becomes second nature and it's my understanding from several different sources this becomes second nature--we'll see.

If the 420s by themselves produce, say, f/8 on the flash meter, I will stop the camera down to f//11 and take the 580 on-camera flash off manual and use it in ETTL.

That's two potential ways to do it based on what I can understand from this thread and other sources.

Thanks,
Dan

[Todd Jacobsen]

Todd,

THANKS for the detail!

I am leaning towards manual control (your second option) all the way around the system. I gathered some information from Pocket-Wizard directly and they helped a lot too. I'll need the meter for sure to go down this road; frankly it will come in handy for other applications too.

If I am understanding my experimental starting points correctly, I'll set the two remote flash units (420s) and fire all three flashes (420s and 580 on camera) to establish a starting point f-stop. Based on that information I'll adjust the camera manually as I move and change distances, etc. Over time, this becomes second nature and it's my understanding from several different sources this becomes second nature--we'll see.

If the 420s by themselves produce, say, f/8 on the flash meter, I will stop the camera down to f//11 and take the 580 on-camera flash off manual and use it in ETTL.

That's two potential ways to do it based on what I can understand from this thread and other sources.

Thanks,
Dan


Just be carefull to match MANUAL 420 settings with E-TTL on-camera setting. You are essentially establishing your "AMBIENT" light with the manual flashes and are utilizing the on-camera to produce "fill" effects.

In order for this to work, the 420 MANUAL settings will have to fire WITH the camera. Since the camera is calculating E-TTL for EVERY shot, you may need to always use "*" to appropriately meter the exposure. I'm not sure how you can accomodate this with a partial manual setup.

[PacAce]

Does anybody know for a fact if the 420EX can be fired remotely via a Pocket Wizard? I'm wondering because I know that the 420EX does not have a manual mode.

[dpanicc1]

Got it Todd, thanks. Yes, I'll be experimenting quite a bit before the setup makes its debut. Have a great day.

Regarding the 420, I can tell you absolutely. I bought a hot shoe to pc connection. The pc connection goes into the PW receiver. That's it. The 420 does not have a manual mode, correct. I plan on trying them out to see how things go; I am just looking to light the venue's background. If I need to turn intensity down--which will most likely be the case--I'll buy a couple of Vivitars that have the pc connection built in and are roughly the same power and about $50.00 cheaper than the 420s--good for the application. 420s will be stored away for more backup--more backups!

Dan

[Todd Jacobsen]

Does anybody know for a fact if the 420EX can be fired remotely via a Pocket Wizard? I'm wondering because I know that the 420EX does not have a manual mode.


Well my decision to by 580EX's is sounding better! I was thinking about using a 420 for backlighting and because of price, I was going to purchase one. Decided to go the more expensive route and not unhappy.

Thanks for that tidbit.

I am still awaiting an STE-"3"...but will probably just stick with a flash unit. For $80-150, you get more use out of a flash master...