Can just anyone make a living in photography?

[kekoa]

I have to share this quick story with you guys. A co-worker of mine recently bought a 50D after saving up for over a year. All he has is the really crappy kit lens. He doesn't have a flash and shoots in AUTO mode.

Supposedly, he shot a cousins wedding last week and it went really well.

Today, he just ordered some business cards and tells me he is starting a photog business. If anyone sees the name G&G Photography, steer clear!! bw!

[DeCeccoNET]

While I'd like to give the benifit of doubt in that a skilled photographer can make the most out of any camera/lens combo to take exceptional pictures, I have also found an increase of "uncle/aunt smiths" that feel that since they now own a DSLR, they are a "Pro Photographer" and should be treated as such.

At a recent outdoor wedding for a friend, one of of the said uncles actually walked around during the ceremony taking pictures and in many instances disrupted the mood of the event (he walked behind the alter snapping away at full auto on an XT). He also seemed to get in the way of the hired photographer several times.

[Colorblinded]

I would think the answer is no but I've seen plenty of examples of people who seem to make partial and maybe even their full income which is sufficient to live off who aren't particularly good. It probably depends on location and what market and level you cater to.

Even having the skill I don't think there's anything that guarantees a particular person success in making a living off photography. If you shoot weddings, events, portraits, fashion and the like there at least appears to be a market and reasonably consistent demand from what I've seen of my photographer friends who do work in that area or are looking to get in to it.

[Balliolman]

He must be quite a talent ....

[ironchef31]

Anyone can, but not everyone will be successful. I bet 9 out of 10 upstarts will be dead in a year. The ones that will survive probably scrape by for the first few years and that's with the help of friends and family networking for you.

It's a start but I hope he hasn't quit his day job just yet.

[ironchef31]

A friend asked me if I would do it for a living. I said no because I would have to find another new hobby.

[Colorblinded]

A friend asked me if I would do it for a living. I said no because I would have to find another new hobby.
That's something I've wondered about regarding a few friends as well, but it seems some of them do succeed at balancing the job and hobby aspects. Some regard them as separate parts of photography. They shoot weddings for money but shoot other things like like for the hobby.

If I could tolerate shooting people enough that wouldn't be a bad way to bring in some side cash but I wouldn't make a career of it personally.

[GenuineRolla]

I make a living off my hobby! haha...it's all I got going for me income wise right now.

Works for me.

[sfaust]

>> Can just anyone make a living in photography?

Of course you can. I know plenty of photographers making better than average pay, supporting their family, and running a very successful business. If you look at the various income and industry surveys and studies, full time working photographers in are showing gross incomes after expenses in the $45K to $150K range. The range varies so much due to the vast number of people working part time in the industry, which are also included int he surveys, and thus report lower earnings. If you look at the full time incomes in advertising, corporate, and commercial areas, the range is at the higher end of that average, while the editorial, journalism, staff, and portrait photographers at the lower end.

But yea, for a full time dedicated 'real' businesses, they can make a decent living at it. For those doing it part time, and still run like a business, they can make a very decent part time income. Then there are those like you mention above, that might make a few thousand a year, but generally spend it all on more gear anyway, and not really considered or run like a business.

It all depends on where you hang your hat!

I tend to believe if its fun to shoot and easily accessible to the masses, the lower the financial rewards will be. Such as glamour, sports, travel, landscape, etc.

If its not accessible to many, or boring such that people aren't lining up to shoot for credit lines or gear money, its far more lucrative. There is less competition, isn't as accessible, requires far more marketing effort to cultivate clients, and thus the rates are still high since clients are flooded with offers to shoot for free or cheap rates.

[Willie]

I have to share this quick story with you guys. A co-worker of mine recently bought a 50D after saving up for over a year. All he has is the really crappy kit lens. He doesn't have a flash and shoots in manal mode.

Supposedly, he shot a cousins wedding last week and it went really well.

Today, he just ordered some business cards and tells me he is starting a photog business. If anyone sees the name G&G Photography, steer clear!! bw!

You'd better hope he doesn't find this forum and read your post.

[Karl Johnston]

^Are you him?

I make a living off my hobby! haha...it's all I got going for me income wise right now.

Works for me.
Word

[kekoa]

^Are you him?


Word

LOL. No. Like the above posts, photography is my hobby and I really enjoy it. I've also seen professional work and I'm not even close nor do it care. I just enjoy taking shots of our baby and anything else that amuses me.


I know its dumb, but sometimes it bugs me that everyone and their dad thinks they are a 'professional' because they have an SLR.

[Willie]

^Are you him?


No, I know better than to charge for my lack of photography skills.

I just read it and remembered how I was going to make a comment about a photog I knew, but then thought how many people are on here, you never know if he's a member.

Seeing as how he's a co-worker, nothing good can come of it if he reads it.

[Gentleman Villain]

"The photography only has to be as good as the bad taste of the client." - That's my cynical way of summing up the photography business.

In the real estate business, they have something called "the bigger sucker theory." The theory is that it's OK to purchase an overpriced property as long as a bigger sucker will come along in the future and buy it off ya for an even larger sum than was paid in the first place...

I'm pretty cynical about the photography business mainly because of learning that the audience mostly consists of people that aren't capable of understanding craftsmanship and separating unique ideas from common ideas. Most of the audience will easily fall for gimmicks. It's not any different in the commercial world than it is in the wedding/portrait industry.

Truly high quality photography will often have a very small audience. This becomes extremely frustrating as an aspiring photographer get better and better at the craft. In the beginning, amateur photographers will often take lots of pictures that their friends and families love. They'll get lots of praise and feel really good about themselves. But, that's because amateur work is usually filled with lots of gimmicks that are easily understood by an un-sophisticated audience. On the contrary, expert craftsmanship can only be appreciated by other competent craftsman. So the better a photographer gets at his craft, the smaller the audience is that can understand his work. This means that the audience for a photographer's work will often become smaller as his craftsmanship skills increase.

Famous photographers are almost always known for their subject matter...NOT their photography. Remember, an unsophisticated audience cannot relate to craftsmanship so they can only relate to to psychological triggers provoked by the subject matter contained within the photograph. The psychologicial trigger might be a supermodel, a beautiful landscape, a cute little baby dressed up like a bumble-bee etc. In general, audiences can only relate to the subject matter...they can't relate to the craftsmanship that was required produce the work in the first place.

Producing quality craftsmanship within the medium of photography can be kind of like writing a novel in Latin. The audience must be able to read and speak Latin in order to understand the novel.

[shaggymatt]

Well said Gentleman Villain.

Just made me think back... almost EVERY event of late, the people that come up to you while shooting, and say, "You're doing a great job." Huh?

[dgoakill]

A friend asked me if I would do it for a living. I said no because I would have to find another new hobby.

bw!

so true.....every art medium I've been into quickly soured once it became something I "had" to do as opposed to wanted to do. if you're getting paid then you're not shooting for yourself and sometimes that makes all the difference in the world.

[The Moose]

so true.....every art medium I've been into quickly soured once it became something I "had" to do as opposed to wanted to do. if you're getting paid then you're not shooting for yourself and sometimes that makes all the difference in the world.

That's exactly why I'm not sure I want to shoot for people but I enjoy shooting things where people generally shoot for others, i.e. sports and live music, so this has lead to people asking me to shoot for them. The easiest things for me to get to have been friends so then they want the photos or for me to shoot them again and then their friends see the photos and want me as well.

[dgoakill]

That's exactly why I'm not sure I want to shoot for people but I enjoy shooting things where people generally shoot for others, i.e. sports and live music, so this has lead to people asking me to shoot for them. The easiest things for me to get to have been friends so then they want the photos or for me to shoot them again and then their friends see the photos and want me as well.

when it doesn't matter it's fun, when it matters it's not so much fun. Now, you can shoot "when" and "if" you feel like it. if it's your job, you don't have that luxury.

[Earl17]

This is my first post reply so I might stutter. I'm tap dancing on the line between full-time photography and part-time photography. I've been a snapper since yonks and realized that I could make money with my camera. Starting out I struggled to get work but ended up doing more free gig's than anything. 2 years later I see those free gig's are bringing call backs, paying one's. There is definitively money in it if you willing to pay your due's and be patient.

[S.Horton]

@Earl17
Welcome to POTN

[nuffi]

To make a living as a photographer you need one of two things (equipment notwithstanding):

o) Talent! It kinda maybe seems to go without saying but you need to have some.

o) Business acumen! It is often surprising and disappointing to those amatuers who *know* they can do a better job than the schmoe who's being paid a ton for a gig - business acumen is quite a bit more important than talent for most pro togs. Find a market that isn't being met, promote well to the customer base and get gigs. As long as you meet the expectations of the clients who sign you up, you'll continue to get more paid gigs.

If I had to chose only one of those two things to carry into a job as a professional tog, I'd think it was the latter that's more important.

[hollis_f]

A friend asked me if I would do it for a living. I said no because I would have to find another new hobby.
Too true. I've recently retired and thought I could use some of my newly acquired free time to see if I could make a few pennies by selling some of my photos. Yesterday I spent 6 hours sorting through a batch of shots from Namibia and prepping the best 30-something for submission. Then I realised I was back working!

[sfaust]

when it doesn't matter it's fun, when it matters it's not so much fun. Now, you can shoot "when" and "if" you feel like it. if it's your job, you don't have that luxury.

I used to shoot all the time for myself. Now that I shoot 2-3 days a week for clients, I rarely pick up the camera and shoot for myself. And when I do, its usually with an eye toward using it for my portfolio.

However, I enjoy shooting for clients just as much as I did for myself. It's far more involved, with a crew, MUA's, stylists, models, etc, but I like that aspect of it as well. Something I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do if I was shooting as a hobby.

Its a fair trade off. While I don't get to always shoot what I want, I get paid well for doing something I really enjoy.

If I had to chose only one of those two things to carry into a job as a professional tog, I'd think it was the latter [business acumen] that's more important.

I couldn't agree more.

[Moppie]

To make a living as a photographer you need one of two things (equipment notwithstanding):

o) Talent! It kinda maybe seems to go without saying but you need to have some.

o) Business acumen! It is often surprising and disappointing to those amatuers who *know* they can do a better job than the schmoe who's being paid a ton for a gig - business acumen is quite a bit more important than talent for most pro togs. Find a market that isn't being met, promote well to the customer base and get gigs. As long as you meet the expectations of the clients who sign you up, you'll continue to get more paid gigs.

If I had to chose only one of those two things to carry into a job as a professional tog, I'd think it was the latter that's more important.



Absolutly.
I don't know any talented photographers who are bad business men who are making a living from photography.

But I do know of lots of good business men who are average (and the odd bad) photographers who are making good money from photography.

[airfrogusmc]

Absolutly.
I don't know any talented photographers who are bad business men who are making a living from photography.

But I do know of lots of good business men who are average (and the odd bad) photographers who are making good money from photography.

I do. The ones that aren't good business men like a very good private practice physician hire good people to run the business. Leaves time to do what they do best.

And the businessmen that are not good photographers or don't have something special that clients will search them out for are going to have a rough road ahead.

You can always find someone to help you run your business. Good accountants are out there.

One very important thing is you have to KNOW your client. Marketing to say a corporation is very different than marketing to individuals and knowing the clients business and how to get it for yourself can be very different from industry to industry. Trying to be everything to everybody is usually a recipe for disaster. You wind up not being good at anything.

I try to shot at least on day a week for me.

[Moppie]

I do. The ones that aren't good business men like a very good private practice physician hire good people to run the business. Leaves time to do what they do best.




Knowing what your weakness's are, and knowing when to get in help is part of being good business.

A photographer who is not good at business and does not get in help is not a good business man.

[Jon, The Elder]

But I do know of lots of good business men who are average (and the odd bad) photographers who are making good money from photography.

Darn it.......another person found me out !

[Tom Reichner]

It certainly appears that just about anyone can make a living from photography, if they're willing to do the type of photography that pays.

Weddings? Of course! I think you'd have to be terrible not to make it in the wedding business.

Sports? Yep. There's a good demand for images of little kids playing soccer, baseball, etc. Their parents buy the photos to display and share with friends, family, etc.

Now for the hard part: Try to make it full-time as a wildlife photographer. No zoo shots. No photos of people's dogs. No horses, etc. Just wild life in it's native habitat. That's when it gets extremely difficult to make a full-time living. All the publishers seem to have so many resourses available to them that it's really difficult to get a foot in the door. And then when you do get their interest, they hardly pay anything for usage rights.

Even most of the successful wildlife photographers out there seem to have to supplement their photography with writing books that feature their images. Sorry, but to me that's not being strictly a full-time photographer - it's being part photographer and part writer.

[Tarzanman]

Answer: Yes. This is the age of autofocus, digital photographs, photoshop and kinkos copies. All he has to do is a half-way decent job at taking pictures and get his name out there. Its not like he'll lose a lot of money trying to support the business venture.

He might not end up shooting any magazine covers (or then again, he might get lucky), but as long as he is good about making sure his name gets out among a large enough potential customer-base then he'll already have handled the tougher part of being a pro picture taker.

I'm surprised that you asked the question. I can't think of a business/industry that doesn't have a slew of people who aren't particularly good at what they do.


I have to share this quick story with you guys. A co-worker of mine recently bought a 50D after saving up for over a year. All he has is the really crappy kit lens. He doesn't have a flash and shoots in AUTO mode.

Supposedly, he shot a cousins wedding last week and it went really well.

Today, he just ordered some business cards and tells me he is starting a photog business. If anyone sees the name G&G Photography, steer clear!!

[Floriantrojer.com]

The issue your co-worker will face sooner (or later) is that he/she realizes that your friends and / or relatives look at your photos a lot different than a client who doesn't know you.

This goes along the lines of: "never let your mom and dad review your portfolio for you". :D

[eaglesnest]

yes, of course you can! depends on how you run your business, no difference than any other ones. Remember the formula: 70% business, 30% art. Good luck!!

[Keltab]

Well spoken (or typed) Gentleman Villain!
The one thing we have to remember though is to shoot to what the target audience wants. If I have a bunch of parents that want to purchase photos of there 8 year old playing sports, then I will shoot to what they want. However, I very much enjoy the challenge of shooting wildlife, landscapes and other subjects as well. So, I have to remind myself that sometimes I am shooting for me, and other times I am shooting for the target audience. I am starting a small business myself - as a side to my career.
Now I just have to remember that some people will never understand/like some of my work!

[CaityB]

I haven't been doing this very long (about a year), but I'm actually reaching out around NY to see what I can do about turning my photography into $$. Money isn't the only reason I'm doing it though. I've come up with a few ideas lately that I really feel would be beneficial to those I am taking pictures OF (I will post a thread about it elsewhere instead of hijacking this one lol).

I'm also a college student with loans, and some of those loans went to camera gear. I'd like to be able to pay off my loans and have my equipment pay for itself at the very least :) My dream would be to shoot for a living, since I love it so much. I'm going to keep striving to do so. I bought business cards a while back, and have been giving them out to people who are interested. I think it's possible for "anyone" to turn their photography into a business. A good one? That's another story... I've seen some pretty bad stuff out there though...

A lot of this was probably already stated somewhere in this thread, sorry for repeating if that's the case :)

[20DNewbie]

I used to work with someone who had run what essentially was a Sears portrait studio. This person went to one of those fancy big name photo schools and would occasionally do weddings and portraits on the side(snaking them from the studio clientèle). This "Pro" used to shoot with a 20D(absolutely nothing wrong with that) until the "Pro" found out I also had one, then ran out the next day and bought a 5D. This individual had barely an understanding of the simplest functions of the camera let alone any of the advanced functions. Only owning the 5D and three flashes while everything else down to CF cards was rented and would shoot the entire wedding jpeg on auto(gotta save money on the CF card rental).

Sadly, now this person is an instructor at the very same fancy big name school. Yes this person seems to have a keen business sense(should considering the bachelors in business prior to photog school), but the portfolio is rather bleh...

Lots of soft focus and cookie cutter trendy stuff with an occasion product shot.

I pray for the students at the school(for the amount of money that's being laid out) that they turn out to be better than this person talent wise.

So I guess the answer is, yes.:rolleyes:

[harroz]

outstanding!
"The photography only has to be as good as the bad taste of the client." - That's my cynical way of summing up the photography business.

In the real estate business, they have something called "the bigger sucker theory." The theory is that it's OK to purchase an overpriced property as long as a bigger sucker will come along in the future and buy it off ya for an even larger sum than was paid in the first place...

I'm pretty cynical about the photography business mainly because of learning that the audience mostly consists of people that aren't capable of understanding craftsmanship and separating unique ideas from common ideas. Most of the audience will easily fall for gimmicks. It's not any different in the commercial world than it is in the wedding/portrait industry.

Truly high quality photography will often have a very small audience. This becomes extremely frustrating as an aspiring photographer get better and better at the craft. In the beginning, amateur photographers will often take lots of pictures that their friends and families love. They'll get lots of praise and feel really good about themselves. But, that's because amateur work is usually filled with lots of gimmicks that are easily understood by an un-sophisticated audience. On the contrary, expert craftsmanship can only be appreciated by other competent craftsman. So the better a photographer gets at his craft, the smaller the audience is that can understand his work. This means that the audience for a photographer's work will often become smaller as his craftsmanship skills increase.

Famous photographers are almost always known for their subject matter...NOT their photography. Remember, an unsophisticated audience cannot relate to craftsmanship so they can only relate to to psychological triggers provoked by the subject matter contained within the photograph. The psychologicial trigger might be a supermodel, a beautiful landscape, a cute little baby dressed up like a bumble-bee etc. In general, audiences can only relate to the subject matter...they can't relate to the craftsmanship that was required produce the work in the first place.

Producing quality craftsmanship within the medium of photography can be kind of like writing a novel in Latin. The audience must be able to read and speak Latin in order to understand the novel.

[BscPhoto]

This has become a normal thing for those of us who make our living as photographers to deal with. I will many time be asked if I would hire friends or family of a couple to shoot along side me as a second photographer. We also see the influx of photographers offering "discount wedding photography" on craigslist for 300-500 bucks. Just in a recent thread a member here pointed out to me that there is a market for those photographers but it needs to be out in the open that this is on the job training and there are risks to the bride and groom.
Canon makes consumer products that when used right can produce images very similar to what the professional products can produce. If the guy is a talented photographer or has an eye for good photography then maybe he has the ability to make it with out disappointing his clients.

Just remember, in every industry and every profession there are people who don't know what they are doing or are just good enough to get away with it.
Thanks to the advice and point of view of Peacefield, it is up to us to let our work stand out based on our professional abilities and concern ourselves little with what everyone else does.

[Sibil]

when it doesn't matter it's fun, when it matters it's not so much fun. Now, you can shoot "when" and "if" you feel like it. if it's your job, you don't have that luxury.

That's why I got out of it years and years ago. The hobby turned into stress.

[Brideshooter]

Can just anyone build a house???

[sfaust]

Can just anyone build a house???

Yes, unfortunately. It may not be up to code, the roof may leak, it may not be built straight, the layout might be very funky, etc. But sure, with basic tools they can, and they will find a buyer ;)

[Karl Johnston]

I think anyone can make money on photography.

I think you really need to have more than the "pick up a camera and decide to make a business" phase to yourself if you want to make a *living* off of photography.

I find it hard to make a *living* on photography..I'm only pulling in 1500-2000 a month after everything is taken care of.

That's hardly enough to live off of. Like sfaust said; anyone can build a house (but that house may not be the best one to live in); anyone can make a living off of (photography) ...but it may not be the greatest living to make. Some people will do better than others, and inevitably some people won't do very well at all.

A lot of shots I sell...I don't really like some of them, I can't understand why they would appeal to people but they do and I sell them because I do need the money to keep doing this. I really don't like shooting people; I love shooting nature. But the money is in people, so I do the odd portrait or wedding session here and there to get by.

I think the step after being able to make a living off of your artwork is to enjoy the artwork you're creating and selling and beyond that; enjoy the lifestyle you're living. If you don't enjoy it...well do what I am doing and go back to school to find a new career.

[BscPhoto]

I think anyone can make money on photography.

I think you really need to have more than the "pick up a camera and decide to make a business" phase to yourself if you want to make a *living* off of photography.

I find it hard to make a *living* on photography..I'm only pulling in 1500-2000 a month after everything is taken care of.

That's hardly enough to live off of. Like sfaust said; anyone can build a house (but that house may not be the best one to live in); anyone can make a living off of (photography) ...but it may not be the greatest living to make. Some people will do better than others, and inevitably some people won't do very well at all.

A lot of shots I sell...I don't really like some of them, I can't understand why they would appeal to people but they do and I sell them because I do need the money to keep doing this. I really don't like shooting people; I love shooting nature. But the money is in people, so I do the odd portrait or wedding session here and there to get by.

I think the step after being able to make a living off of your artwork is to enjoy the artwork you're creating and selling and beyond that; enjoy the lifestyle you're living. If you don't enjoy it...well do what I am doing and go back to school to find a new career.
It really is amazing what images people who are not me like. When I shoot a wedding I tend to put up a lot of shots that I don't even like for the client to view and for the reason that it has been a normal thing for the client to like a shot I hate. The customer is always right

[beachmonkeycom]

Anyone can make a living in photography if they know how to market themselves to bring in the required number of clients to pay the bills and have enough skill to give the clients the finished product they desire.

[Karizmatik]

I have to share this quick story with you guys. A co-worker of mine recently bought a 50D after saving up for over a year. All he has is the really crappy kit lens. He doesn't have a flash and shoots in AUTO mode.

Supposedly, he shot a cousins wedding last week and it went really well.

Today, he just ordered some business cards and tells me he is starting a photog business. If anyone sees the name G&G Photography, steer clear!!

Why would someone steer clear?

Seems your friend is smarter than you if he is making money off of something he only just started.

If people like what he shoots and he can make money from it, then that answers your question.

Jealousy is a wicked curse, ain't it?

[S-S]

the only way to judge a photographer is by their work
gear is absolutely no indicator of ability - only bank balance

[Karizmatik]

the only way to judge a photographer is by their work
gear is absolutely no indicator of ability - only bank balance

Yeah, what he said.

Pretty much nail on the head right there.