School me on camcorders, please!

[In2Photos]

The wife just told me to find a new camcorder. :confused: I have been avoiding this for quite some time because it is likely something we won't use that much anyway, but I guess it is time. Our Hi-8 Sony is about 10 years old and there are some things that don't work anymore, plus the video quality isn't that great. I am fairly lost when it comes to video, but I do have some general knowledge. So here is the breakdown.

- She would like a DVD based camcorder. I am not so sure. I think HDD is the way to go. I don't like the idea of waiting for something when it comes time to record, nor do I want to be bothered by having to make sure that we are "at the end" of the last session. Perhaps things work differently now, but fast forwarding to the end of a tape sucks! Thoughts?

- We likely won't edit much, but should we decide I probably won't buy any additional software. Is there something decent out there that comes with the camcorders? Or a relatively inexpensive software prgram that is easy to use. I have a new i7 PC so processing isn't an issue. I did skimp on the video card since 2D photo editing was all I was planning on doing :rolleyes: so I may have to upgrade that down the line.

- I don't want to spend a lot on this, but if an extra $100 gets me a lot more camera than I will do so. I am not even sure how much I want to spend or where I will get it from. Let's say $500 ish max. HD would be nice, but I guess not a must.

So as you can see I am clueless. ;) Help me out, thanks!

[kevindar]

so you have the option of dv tape for uncompressed High def, or memory cards for compressed hi def. I have a canon HF 100, pretty happy with it, though I dont use it much since I have gotten 5D2, and its within your price range, produces HD images, which are pretty decent on an SD card. comes with a software which does basic burning to dvd for you. I have not used it for editing. good video, has an easy record button, decent sound, and many other functions.
Now, I have to say, the quality of video out of 5d2 is much much better. also being able to use prime lenses and wide lenses is wonderful. If you think a body upgrade is in your future, you may want to hold off for 60D.

[osv]

so you have the option of dv tape for uncompressed High def, or memory cards for compressed hi def. I have a canon HF 100, pretty happy with it, though I dont use it much since I have gotten 5D2, and its within your price range, produces HD images, which are pretty decent on an SD card. comes with a software which does basic burning to dvd for you. I have not used it for editing. good video, has an easy record button, decent sound, and many other functions.
Now, I have to say, the quality of video out of 5d2 is much much better. also being able to use prime lenses and wide lenses is wonderful. If you think a body upgrade is in your future, you may want to hold off for 60D.

x2

but you also have to decide if you want a camcorder or something that can only shoot film-style.

there are rumors that canon is coming out with a competitor to the red camera, so people are wondering what kind of video improvements there will be on the 60d.

[Zepher]

so you have the option of dv tape for uncompressed High def, or memory cards for compressed hi def.

not to nitpick, but HDV is highly compressed, but still looks great.

What does she plan on shooting?

[In2Photos]

No plans to upgrade bodies at the moment. So 5D2 is likely out of the mix.

Flash based sounds the way to go, but I need to make sure that whatever we get it is easy to use and I can go from card/hard drive/tape whatever to DVD easily, OR I can pop an SD card from the camcorder into my Panasonic BD55 Blu-Ray player and watch from there.

This will be used for home movies, nothing fancy at all, just the kids (Christmas, birthdays, sporting events, etc).

[kevindar]

HF100 is perfect.
The image mixer program will burn a dvd for you, in blue ray format, on to a regular dvd, and will be playable on your panasonic bluray dvd player. the program comes with the camcorder, and as I said, the camcorder is very easy to use. and I think its right around 500. I think its the best you can get for the money.

[charl1e]

DVD is not the way to go... too expensive and too short recording time.
I agree, flash based or HDD is probably the best if you want to burn everything to DVD. If you just want to have a good archive or watch directly from the camera, then maybe an HV20 or HV30 might suit your needs.

[In2Photos]

So the Canon HF100 is the one I am really considering. Before pulling the trigger I want to make sure that there isn't any compatibility issues. According to the manual for Image Mixer it appears that it may only be functional with 32-bit versions of Vista. Please say it ain't so! :confused: Is it only the Business and Enterprise 32 bit versions?

Compatible Systems
Computers with a preinstalled version of one of the following operating systems:
•Microsoft Windows XP (Home Edition or Professional Edition), Service Pack 2.
•Microsoft Windows Vista (Home Basic, Home Premium, Ultimate, Business or
Enterprise Edition, 32 bit).

Also, the best price seems to be around $550 from B&H. Anyone seen better?

[kevindar]

it is so. doesnot work in 64 bit.

[In2Photos]

it is so. doesnot work in 64 bit.
That figures! :mad:

So if I go with the Canon HF100, what software out there is decent for little money. We won't do much, probably just minor editing, and burning to DVD.

[kevindar]

Mike, I dont even use image mixer honestly, although it is very nice for importing the images, b/x it puts them in folder with dates, and exif information. you can also use picasa to import the images (free of course), the only problem being is that you need to rename the images, as it just gives thema 4 digit number, and as soon as you clear the card, it starts from 0000, so you may have many files with that number if you dont rename.
right now, I am using powerdirector 7. its around 60 bucks. I dont know if its the best, but it does the trick. I will add sever files, and then it converts them to an mpeg, or directly burns them to dvd. has several choices. One of th eposters here recommended an excellent free program I have also been using called super. link to website (http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html). I had to look around to find the exact download link, as there are many ads there. the program is called supersetup. It will convert the files to whatever you like (I have been converting them to divx for dvd burning, keeping the originals on hard drive). a 1280x720 at 6K bitrate gives me excellent results, and I can better than 2 hours of highdefenition footage on a single dvd for viewing. that would make need to pay for any software mute, unless you want to do some editing.

[In2Photos]

Mike, I dont even use image mixer honestly, although it is very nice for importing the images, b/x it puts them in folder with dates, and exif information. you can also use picasa to import the images (free of course), the only problem being is that you need to rename the images, as it just gives thema 4 digit number, and as soon as you clear the card, it starts from 0000, so you may have many files with that number if you dont rename.
right now, I am using powerdirector 7. its around 60 bucks. I dont know if its the best, but it does the trick. I will add sever files, and then it converts them to an mpeg, or directly burns them to dvd. has several choices. One of th eposters here recommended an excellent free program I have also been using called super. link to website (http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html). I had to look around to find the exact download link, as there are many ads there. the program is called supersetup. It will convert the files to whatever you like (I have been converting them to divx for dvd burning, keeping the originals on hard drive). a 1280x720 at 6K bitrate gives me excellent results, and I can better than 2 hours of highdefenition footage on a single dvd for viewing. that would make need to pay for any software mute, unless you want to do some editing.

Thanks for the info.

I talked to my wife a little at lunch today and we are starting to think that we should maybe look at a standard def camera. By the time I add in things like an extra battery, more SD cards, and software we start approaching $800! This doesn't even take into account that I might need a new video card since I skimped when I built my latest computer and for HD burning I would also need a Blu-Ray ROM drive. Factor in that I am probably only one of two family members that even has an HDTV and well, SD looks like the smarter move for now.

So, sticking with Canon it looks like the FS200 is the model to look at. Anything from JVC, Panasonic or Sony to look at as well? If I go with the Canon I won't be able to get it in time for my daughter's birthday in two weeks, which might be nice. :(

[stathunter]

Mike-- before you make any purchases look at FlipHD. I have had several camcorders-- pro 3 chip and still have a sony mini dv--- I picked up a Flip HD and LOVE it! It fits in a shirt pocket-- very easy to use-- download the videos to your computer-- make a dvd-- or play them on your tv........It was a great and was only $200.http://www.theflip.com/

[kevindar]

Mike, I have not needed an extra battery. SD cards are cheap. an 8 gig will run your around 30? sandisk has their rebate going right now. You dont need a top notch video card to process them. Much of it is done through your processor. you also dont need an extra battery. I am yet to need one. I just recharge it. besides you can buy generics for about 25.
HD quality is really nice to have. You will get to keep the original files. within next 4-5 years, a bluray dvd burner is going to be 5 bucks, and a bluray dvd that can hold 50 gigs of information, a few bucks. The memories are for ever. My 2 cents.

[In2Photos]

Mike, I have not needed an extra battery. SD cards are cheap. an 8 gig will run your around 30? sandisk has their rebate going right now. You dont need a top notch video card to process them. Much of it is done through your processor. you also dont need an extra battery. I am yet to need one. I just recharge it. besides you can buy generics for about 25.
HD quality is really nice to have. You will get to keep the original files. within next 4-5 years, a bluray dvd burner is going to be 5 bucks, and a bluray dvd that can hold 50 gigs of information, a few bucks. The memories are for ever. My 2 cents.
Ugh! I know! :oops: That is the reason I started photography. :lol: I'm just having a hard time justifying spending the money on something I am not sure will get used much. My daughter turns 4 in two weeks. We have maybe, 2 hours of unedited video of her! Now that might all be because we have a crappy camcorder now, but it also might be because we won't use the camcorder either! All the extra stuff adds up! I will have to have a backup battery, and I saw the rebates on Sandisk cards so those will be picked up as well. I think I need to take my 4GB card to the store with me and do some recording!

[kevindar]

mike, my daughter is 14 months, and I was in to photography before she was born (mostly landscape) but she has been my primary subject for the last 14 months. During that time, I am doing about 1200 actuations a month!!!! many get thrown away, but again, its a lot. I have also shot easily 4 hours worth video, in short clips. Video is just something else, in taking you back. and believe me I love photography.
If you are not shooting that much, you definitely dont need the extra battery. I have to say one of the nice things about 5D2 is that I shoot a lot more video, b/c I dont have to carry an extra camcorder.
At the end of the day, there is not a huge difference between sd, and HD. I think given that HD is within 250-300 of HD, and you have 3 grand worth of photography equipment (at least), might be worth looking in to. I mean I dont think there are a lot of people who own and shoot with a 1d2 camera, and an SD camcorder. alternatively, If you are in need of a point and shoot you can look at at the new canon (sx10?) which does HD video, and is a point and shoot to boot. do you need two bodies? sell the 30D and get a good point and shoot that does videos also.
That much said, times are difficult, and we all have to watch what we spend.

[Medic85]

I'll trade you mine for your 1D:)

[pkalona]

Another option is the Canon HG20. It's about the same price ($599 at B&H) but has a built in 60GB hard disk as well as the option to use an SD card. I figure on vacations the hard disk will let me go longer without a download and I won't have to juggle SD cards.

I've had one for a couple weeks now and the video quality seems great even when using some of the lower bitrate settings.

[In2Photos]

mike, my daughter is 14 months, and I was in to photography before she was born (mostly landscape) but she has been my primary subject for the last 14 months. During that time, I am doing about 1200 actuations a month!!!! many get thrown away, but again, its a lot. I have also shot easily 4 hours worth video, in short clips. Video is just something else, in taking you back. and believe me I love photography.
If you are not shooting that much, you definitely dont need the extra battery. I have to say one of the nice things about 5D2 is that I shoot a lot more video, b/c I dont have to carry an extra camcorder.
At the end of the day, there is not a huge difference between sd, and HD. I think given that HD is within 250-300 of HD, and you have 3 grand worth of photography equipment (at least), might be worth looking in to. I mean I dont think there are a lot of people who own and shoot with a 1d2 camera, and an SD camcorder. alternatively, If you are in need of a point and shoot you can look at at the new canon (sx10?) which does HD video, and is a point and shoot to boot. do you need two bodies? sell the 30D and get a good point and shoot that does videos also.
That much said, times are difficult, and we all have to watch what we spend.
Wait until you have a second child, your shooting will practically come to a complete stop! :o At least mine did. Like you I was shooting about 1200-1500 or so shots a month. But now I shoot less and try to make sure I get "better" shots since I have less time to spend editing and putting on line or printing. The 1D2 was "an accident". I started bidding on it thinking "Hey, if I can get this for $1400 I can sell my 40D to cover it". I never thought I would get it, but I did. Haven't even had it for a year. The 30D is my wife's camera, that I also use as a backup during some paid stuff. The one thing I do have is some small side jobs that have more than paid for my photo gear. I won't be saying the same for video though.
I'll trade you mine for your 1D:)
Did you bump your head? ;)
Another option is the Canon HG20. It's about the same price ($599 at B&H) but has a built in 60GB hard disk as well as the option to use an SD card. I figure on vacations the hard disk will let me go longer without a download and I won't have to juggle SD cards.

I've had one for a couple weeks now and the video quality seems great even when using some of the lower bitrate settings.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out.

[In2Photos]

Well, I just placed an order!

We went to Best Buy last night to see them in person and my wife and I both liked the JVCs the best. There was just something about it that jumped out at us more than the Canon, Sony, or Panasonic models. The menu was very easy to use, the camera was quite comfortable in our hands, although I did like the Canon and Sony straps better. We decided to stick with standard def to keep the cost down and this morning I saw that Beach Camera had them in stock and ready to go for $30 less than Best Buy, and since we couldn't get any decent help there anyway they were not going to get my money. I picked up two 8GB Extreme III cards as well since the JVC has dual slots so that should provide plenty of recording time (something like 4 hours at the highest quality). Total for all was just under $400 and there is $50 is rebates for the cards.

Thanks again for everyone's help. It really did come in handy while considering what to get!