urgent--- Is shooting during a catholic mass allowed?

[gravcy]

Tomorrow is Good Friday, and I'd like to go photograph the mass...

Does anyone have any experience with shooting a live mass? Is it allowed / not allowed?

Thanks for any input.

Update: see page 2 for the results.

[Jim G]

Try asking whoever's in charge of said mass? /venue where it's being held?

[chauncey]

Always apply the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method.

[Skrim17]

You have to ask the church.

[cdifoto]

Well, if it's against the Catholic religion a lot of people are going straight to hell. I found 395 stock photos on fotosearch alone.

[egordon99]

I know our Synagogue prohibits photographs during any service.....BUT since a Catholic wedding is pretty much just a Mass with a little wedding thrown in in the middle, and we've all seen photos of Catholic weddings......

Just don't use flash, and hope you don't have to fight brightly-lit windows, they're never fun.

[The Moose]

Well you see shots in the papers of funerals and I've seen clips of many masses on the news, including photos and videos from today's masses (it's 11pm in Melbourne, Good Friday is over) but I think you would have to get there a bit earlier and ask someone in charge. If they say no, keep your bag next to you and leave your camera in there. If they say yes, sit on the side and shoot away.

[JeffreyG]

You need to ask the priest specifically, but be prepared for him to tell you no.

People have noted that photography typically is allowed in Catholic weddings, which are full masses when both the bride and groom are Catholic.

But on the other hand I've got a letter regarding first communion from the local priest in my hand that stipulates photography will only be allowed during the processional and after the mass and he strictly bans it in between.

So - the church is not a democracy and whatever the priest says is the rule. Ask or be prepared for an usher to boot you.

[NickSimcheck]

You need to ask the priest specifically, but be prepared for him to tell you no.

People have noted that photography typically is allowed in Catholic weddings, which are full masses when both the bride and groom are Catholic.

But on the other hand I've got a letter regarding first communion from the local priest in my hand that stipulates photography will only be allowed during the processional and after the mass and he strictly bans it in between.

So - the church is not a democracy and whatever the priest says is the rule. Ask or be prepared for an usher to boot you.


Most likely has nothing to do with the church, it's because Michiganders are so stubborn! :lol:

[JeffreyG]

Most likely has nothing to do with the church, it's because Michiganders are so stubborn! :lol:

Heh!

This priest is OK with shooting weddings and baptisms, but not regular masses or first communion.

[20droger]

Two things:

First, there is no Canon (Church rule) against photography. Masses are not secret, and are open to anyone. Many have been photographed. Whether or not you can shoot a particular mass is entirely up to the celebrant (the priest) in charge. Talk to him and explain why you would like to photograph the mass.

Masses are, however, sacred, so if the priest allows you to photograph one, respect and propriety should be used at all times (no draping yourself over the altar or climbing on the communion rail).

Second, there is no mass on Good Friday. Good Friday is the one day a year where there is no mass, in recognition of the belief that the Lord died on that day.

Yes, there is a ceremony on Good Friday, but there is no consecration. All hosts and wine used are consecrated the day before. Without a consecration, there is no mass. It is, instead, more of an "agape," a celebration of love and commitment (to God).

As for special ceremonies, many priests allow photography during weddings and baptisms but not during other ceremonies. This is because weddings and baptisms are special ceremonies peculiar to the family involved, rather than to the general public.

First Communions and Confirmations, while special family ceremonies, are for the community, rather than any specific family. Taking pictures during them may offend others directly involved.

Also, allowing unfettered photography by the general public during any ceremony will almost certainly destroy the sanctity and dignity of the ceremony. We all know that it is virtually impossible to rein in all those moms and dads when their kids are involved.

Some priests allow a single (usually professional) photographer to photograph such ceremonies. Parents can then obtain photographs from them.

As I said, the celebrant decides whether of not photography will be allowed for any given ceremony. And his decision is absolute.

And yes, the Catholic Church is NOT a democracy (it's an oligarchy, and the priest is the local oligarch), church property IS private property (the man in charge gets to make the rules), and you do NOT have a "right" to take pictures without permission.

[Mark]

Just ask the person that is running it if you can, just like most events, ask the person running the show if you can shoot it and for restrictions etc (when/where not to shoot)...

I would doubt it is against the religion....(but I am not religious so do not actually know)

[spkerer]

20droger gave you all the good details. I would either talk ahead of time, or arrive plenty early, and ask the celebrant. Tell him you'd like to take pictures and ask him when and from where will he allow you to shoot.

Depending upon the priest, it could vary from "not at all" to "only from the back and at during these specific times", etc.

[20droger]

A sad but true story....

I was once asked by a Catholic chaplain to take pictures of an entire mass in the field (in Vietnam, during the war there). His mother wanted the pictures. I took 48 shots with my trust Pentax.

Before I was able to get the film developed and printed, however, the chaplain was killed. The mass pictures then became very much more special for his parents.

This particular chaplain was a close personal friend, and was one of the primary reasons I later became a Franciscan.

[Rachel B]

IA church is privae property, so I would speak with the person in charge. also you probably would have more luck if you are a member of the church

[Big O]

A sad but true story....

I was once asked by a Catholic chaplain to take pictures of an entire mass in the field (in Vietnam, during the war there). His mother wanted the pictures. I took 48 shots with my trust Pentax.

Before I was able to get the film developed and printed, however, the chaplain was killed. The mass pictures then became very much more special for his parents.

This particular chaplain was a close personal friend, and was one of the primary reasons I later became a Franciscan.

Wow, that is a powerful story. I'm glad he asked you to do that, what an opportunity ... those will be / are some cherished possessions. I bet it was hard to take that first look at the negatives / prints, I can't imagine.

[gravcy]

20droger - thanks for detail response. greatly appreciated. I'm a "non-practicing" Catholic who's recently started to go back to church every so often. Thanks for sharing that personal story as well -- i've no doubt that that was one of those powerful moments in photography.

thanks for the help everyone as well. We'll have to see what happens today. I'm lugging my 24-105L; don't think i'll have a chance to get my hands on the 70-200 2.8.



Two things:



First, there is no Canon (Church rule) against photography. Masses are not secret, and are open to anyone. Many have been photographed. Whether or not you can shoot a particular mass is entirely up to the celebrant (the priest) in charge. Talk to him and explain why you would like to photograph the mass.

Masses are, however, sacred, so if the priest allows you to photograph one, respect and propriety should be used at all times (no draping yourself over the altar or climbing on the communion rail).

Second, there is no mass on Good Friday. Good Friday is the one day a year where there is no mass, in recognition of the belief that the Lord died on that day.

Yes, there is a ceremony on Good Friday, but there is no consecration. All hosts and wine used are consecrated the day before. Without a consecration, there is no mass. It is, instead, more of an "agape," a celebration of love and commitment (to God).

As for special ceremonies, many priests allow photography during weddings and baptisms but not during other ceremonies. This is because weddings and baptisms are special ceremonies peculiar to the family involved, rather than to the general public.

First Communions and Confirmations, while special family ceremonies, are for the community, rather than any specific family. Taking pictures during them may offend others directly involved.

Also, allowing unfettered photography by the general public during any ceremony will almost certainly destroy the sanctity and dignity of the ceremony. We all know that it is virtually impossible to rein in all those moms and dads when their kids are involved.

Some priests allow a single (usually professional) photographer to photograph such ceremonies. Parents can then obtain photographs from them.

As I said, the celebrant decides whether of not photography will be allowed for any given ceremony. And his decision is absolute.

And yes, the Catholic Church is NOT a democracy (it's an oligarchy, and the priest is the local oligarch), church property IS private property (the man in charge gets to make the rules), and you do NOT have a "right" to take pictures without permission.

[gravcy]

Thanks for the response everyone. This is how it turned out.

The following were taken at the 3PM service at Kingston's St. Mary Cathedral http://stmaryscathedral.ca/. By the time that i had arrived, most of the center aisle seats have already been taken. So the best vantage point was kinda off-centered-mid-left of the church. I had asked the priest if photography was allowed. He asked if I was shooting for myself (i was), and just basically asked that I "dont get in the way".

I decided to seize that opportunity to take a few shots prior to the start of it. I found that it was pretty difficult (or i just didn't have the guts / had too much respect for the occasion) to pull out the camera. I found that the XSi's shutter to be extremely loud and that electronic-grind is just not pleasing at all (unlike the 40D).


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3430105713_556289e660.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/3430924344_83d6e20d49.jpg

[_aravena]

Why do people insist on asking us about things they need to ask someone directly about? We don't work at the church. I can understand if there is no one to ask directly, being a broad area of a city or something, but you have a location and a person...GO ASK!

[nuffi]

I guess ppl do it for all sorts of reasons.... Mostly it is about reassurance, but sometimes about seeing if something is even worth their while.

[20droger]

Why do people insist on asking us about things they need to ask someone directly about? We don't work at the church. I can understand if there is no one to ask directly, being a broad area of a city or something, but you have a location and a person...GO ASK!
It is also because they receive suggestions and gain insight from the experiences of others.

But hey, if it bothers you, simply ignore such posts.

[20droger]

That's because the church is getting money for those first 2 ceremonies. :)
Sometimes, though it's usually the priest, and not the church per se.

I personally performed many, many free baptisms and weddings (still do on odd occasions). And yes, I allowed photographs during the ceremonies.

And, the church does get money for ceremonies other than baptisms and weddings. That's what that basket thing passed around during the offering is all about. And rightly so. Priests have to eat, after all, and somebody has to pay the light bill, etc.

[friz]

So it's Father Droger? I always thought that photograhy would be an ideal hobby for a man with your perspective on things. I have a facination with faith and icons of faith, but my perspective is from the outside looking in. I'll have to keep an eye out for your posts.

[20droger]

So it's Father Droger? I always thought that photograhy would be an ideal hobby for a man with your perspective on things. I have a facination with faith and icons of faith, but my perspective is from the outside looking in. I'll have to keep an eye out for your posts.
Actually, it's Friar Christopher Roger, O.F.M. And photography is a rather dear hobby for a man with a vow of poverty. Especially with the cost of DSLRs. Fortunately, I predate DSLRs, but film and chemicals were really a strain on the ol' flat wallet.

Now that I'm "retired" from that profession, I no longer have the vow. The poverty, however, remains.

[JeffreyG]

Actually, it's Friar Christopher Roger, O.F.M. And photography is a rather dear hobby for a man with a vow of poverty. Especially with the cost of DSLRs. Fortunately, I predate DSLRs, but film and chemicals were really a strain on the ol' flat wallet.

Now that I'm "retired" from that profession, I no longer have the vow. The poverty, however, remains.

Too bad you can't take a vow of wealth.:D

[20droger]

Too bad you can't take a vow of wealth.:D
Sure you can, but it only applies to televangelists.

[ryant35]

I'm sure a shutter clicking will disturb someone if not everyone. You don't realize just how loud that thing is until you are around 100+ silent people and all you here is CLICK! and it echoes!

[nuffi]

I'm sure a shutter clicking will disturb someone if not everyone. You don't realize just how loud that thing is until you are around 100+ silent people and all you here is CLICK! and it echoes!


I used to be a spotlight operator. During rehearsals I took a camera + tripod into the roof and shot a few rolls off.

I figured that being so far away, and having an orchestra playing full bore far closer to the everything than I was would mean that the shutter wouldn't be a problem. Next night it was 'gently suggested' that there shall no longer be cameras allowed during rehearsals.

Shutters are amazing noisemakers

[Mark]

I used to be a spotlight operator. During rehearsals I took a camera + tripod into the roof and shot a few rolls off.

I figured that being so far away, and having an orchestra playing full bore far closer to the everything than I was would mean that the shutter wouldn't be a problem. Next night it was 'gently suggested' that there shall no longer be cameras allowed during rehearsals.

Shutters are amazing noisemakers

Yes yes they are, that is why the silent mode on the mk III is so indispensable....

[400dabuser]

20droger - thanks for detail response. greatly appreciated. I'm a "non-practicing" Catholic who's recently started to go back to church every so often. Thanks for sharing that personal story as well -- i've no doubt that that was one of those powerful moments in photography.

thanks for the help everyone as well. We'll have to see what happens today. I'm lugging my 24-105L; don't think i'll have a chance to get my hands on the 70-200 2.8.


I would of assumed that would be the answer, the problem is that you were probably photographing people who are in prayer and want privacy, so therefore, have to respect that person privacy like in normal situations in life

[friz]

Yes yes they are, that is why the silent mode on the mk III is so indispensable....

Noise is a very important consideration. When I would help my father 30 some years ago shoot a wedding, we would use a Leica M3 during the ceremony to keep the noise down.