How many PW TT5's do I need?

[mmahoney]

For using three 580's off camera (one off camera master, two slaves in ETTL) how many Pocket Wizard TT5's do I need?

I'm thinking one for the hot shoe and one for each of the three 580's, total of 4?

I think I can fire the slaves via optical but I'd prefer all radio.

[tjongkristian]

4 pcs, If you use the PW Flex TT5, you get ETTL and High Speed Sync. By using optical, you lose the ETTL and High Speed Sync (Manual Only).

[Az2Africa]

4 pcs, If you use the PW Flex TT5, you get ETTL and High Speed Sync. By using optical, you lose the ETTL and High Speed Sync (Manual Only).

Correct. I just ordered a Mini for the camera and 2 TT5's to go on the 580EX II's. I already have some Plus II's. No real reason to put the TT5 on the camera unless you read something I didn't.

[canonphotog]

How far off camera is the 580 master? Are you putting the "slaves" in a different group? IIRC, you can't use a 580 as a Master "off camera" unless you have it connected to the camera hotshoe via an off camera cord (oc-e2, oc-e3, promaster or equivalent). For your drawing; The controlling FlexTT5 is the one mounted to the camera. By default, a flash mounted to the camera or mounted on the FlexTT5 on the camera is in group A, so I don't see your master/slave setup working as you've drawn it. Not to be a total naysayer.., you can fire all three FlexTT5's in ETTL, just not in master/slave mode. I'll leave you to think about wireless master/slave relationships for a while.

[tim]

I have a very vague understanding of the new PW system, but I recall reading that the older dumb units can be slaves even for ETTL. Or maybe not. Check it out.

[mmahoney]

How far off camera is the 580 master? Are you putting the "slaves" in a different group? IIRC, you can't use a 580 as a Master "off camera" unless you have it connected to the camera hotshoe via an off camera cord (oc-e2, oc-e3, promaster or equivalent). For your drawing; The controlling FlexTT5 is the one mounted to the camera. By default, a flash mounted to the camera or mounted on the FlexTT5 on the camera is in group A, so I don't see your master/slave setup working as you've drawn it. Not to be a total naysayer.., you can fire all three FlexTT5's in ETTL, just not in master/slave mode. I'll leave you to think about wireless master/slave relationships for a while.


My hope is to have a TT5 on camera (with no flash mounted) which will fire an off camera 580 set as master, which will then fire two more 580's as slaves. And I want ETTL and ratios as well.:D Asking too much?

My setup now is one 580 on camera (or off with an OCC) along with two off camera as (Canon optical) slaves and I have ETTL and ratios .. so I'm trying to duplicate that setup except with wireless and have the master off-camera fired with the TT5.

You say I can fire all three in ETTL, but not master / slave .. have you tried that and how did it work?

My main objectives are 1) retaining ETTL and ratios so individual flash output can be controlled from one master flash and 2) getting the master off camera with something besides the cord (hopefully with the PW).

Thanks everyone for the replies.

[canonphotog]

My hope is to have a TT5 on camera (with no flash mounted) which will fire an off camera 580 set as master, which will then fire two more 580's as slaves. And I want ETTL and ratios as well.:D Asking too much? IMO.., Yes, that's asking too much. The PW's will not give you features that are not already available via Canon wireless.

My setup now is one 580 on camera (or off with an OCC) along with two off camera as (Canon optical) slaves and I have ETTL and ratios .. so I'm trying to duplicate that setup except with wireless and have the master off-camera fired with the TT5. You can "almost" do this with the PW's. The part you can't do is have the master function as a master on a FlexTT5 unless that FlexTT5 is mounted to the camera hotshoe or to an off camera cord.

You say I can fire all three in ETTL, but not master / slave .. have you tried that and how did it work? No. I have not tried this because while I have 2 580exII's and 3 550ex's, I only have two FlexTT5's. By design, this is the simplest configuration that PW has in the manual. They use a mini on the camera without a flash mounted on it to control a FlexTT5 in ETTL. The mini doesn't care how many FlexTT5's receive it's signal as ETTL reads the combined control flash from all slaves and tells them all how much power to put out. Doing this with more than one slave at different locations will work, but might not provide optimum results. This is ideal for getting a flash off camera and keeping ETTL. Think outdoor fill with small softbox, flash on a stick, etc.

My main objectives are 1) retaining ETTL and ratios so individual flash output can be controlled from one master flash and 2) getting the master off camera with something besides the cord (hopefully with the PW).

Thanks everyone for the replies.

No.1 will work. No. 2 will not. The best case scenario I see for you is to have three FlexTT5's. Put one on the camera or under the master and connect it to the camera with an off camera cord. Put one under each slave and set the group switch to A or B for ratios. You need to remember that although you can select the C group, you can only change the C groups power level, not vary it with ratios. Even this is not without some potential issues.
Example: to get optimum distance (which translates into minimal RF interference and therefore more reliability) using 580's you will need off camera cords and ferrite chokes for each slave.

Unless you need light from the master you can turn its flash output off and use it to control your A:B groups and ratio's. Were I to expand my kit right now, I would buy one more FlexTT5 to add that capability.

[mmahoney]

They use a mini on the camera without a flash mounted on it to control a FlexTT5 in ETTL.

First, thanks for your detailed replies, very helpful.

One last question .. In the example you describe above do you know if the FlexTT5 controlled flash can work with a second flash in a master / slave configuration? and can that configuration be (non Canon optical) wireless .. ie controlled with another FlexTT5?

[canonphotog]

First, thanks for your detailed replies, very helpful.

One last question .. In the example you describe above do you know if the FlexTT5 controlled flash can work with a second flash in a master / slave configuration? and can that configuration be (non Canon optical) wireless .. ie controlled with another FlexTT5?

If I understand your question correctly.., yes, however it's not really a master/slave relationship. You are simply triggering the FlexTT5 with the non canon flash. The FlexTT5 emits two different radio signals when it is triggered. One is CTL (control TL, pw's term) and the other is a standard PW signal. This means that you can put any non canon flash on the slave FlexTT5, as long as you configure it correctly, and it will fire. This is not without its limitations. You will only be able to fire a flash or studio style strobe at your camera bodies max sync speed. You will need to test that by adjusting your hypersync settings to see what the max sync speed is you can get. The canon FlexTT5 will only sync faster than 1/500 sec with Canon Speedlites set to high speed sync mode.