Hoya price fixing?

[Licepic]

I was looking around for a cpl then came upon this http://www.2filter.com/hoya/hoya_pro1_digital.html

It appears Hoya or the USA distributor (THK) is price fixing their products. So far I have only read this on 2filter.

[swalter]

Wow, good for 2filter for calling them out on this.

[moon meadows]

Yes the prices all over America went up 70% overnight on the Hoya HDs, some stores still have them at lower prices but for how long? THK Photo is trying to force the prices up to more than what a good cameras cost. filters are only a piece of "we hope optical glass" in a metal ring, maybe th ring rotates? $300 for a 82 circular. $227 for a 77mm cpl
B+W filters cost less. The new HD's don't even have the classic B+W and Tiffen 2 part retaining ring. the ring is press fix on the glass blank, way cheaper method of production

[Bubble]

time to stock up on all the HD filter. you can always order from hvstar.net

[moon meadows]

Hoya thinks we all bang our filters against tables to see how good the are. The only reason the HD glass had to be harder in my opinion is because Hoya is using a one piece pressed on mounting ring bent on to the optical blank, If the glass was regular optical glass the pressing machine maybe would break the optical blanks. This method of filter mfg is way cheeper to make filters. Yet, the Hoya Hd's are the most expensive? B+W and Tiffen still use 2 part rings way better, with a retaining ring holding the filter glass in place

[bzollinger]

Maybe Hoya thinks that US photographers are dense? So we can buy from hvstar.net/maxsaver.net or www.2filter.com is selling them through a UK vendor.

Come on Hoya it's 2009! Ordering a filter from China was as easy as buying something off of eBay...

[Tee Why]

Maybe Hoya thinks that US photographers are dense? So we can buy from hvstar.net/maxsaver.net or www.2filter.com (http://www.2filter.com) is selling them through a UK vendor.

Come on Hoya it's 2009! Ordering a filter from China was as easy as buying something off of eBay...
Shhhhh,
Don't let them in on the secret.

Sucks about the price fixing though. Personally, I have UV filters but rarely use them and just use a hood instead and think these filters are very overpriced.

[NickSimcheck]

I can't believe 2filter actually had the guts to call them out. Nice to know how good of people they are over there, next time I need a filter you know who I'll be calling...

[jcw122]

That's pretty sweet they got called out, suckerrrs hahah!

[JasonBr]

I'll certainly be checking out 2filter as well next time I need something. Glad to see that there are still people out there that seem to care about the consumer and don't keep BS schemes like this going.

[outbri]

Being called a troll twice in one day might be a record for me, but I'll go ahead anyway.

What's the problem with price fixing? As in, why does 2filter need to file with the government to make them stop? Shouldn't supply and demand solve this problem? If Hoya filters shoot up then people should buy the next best best value filter. Eventually either it will be found that the filters are worth the high price to people or everyone will buying another manufacturer's.

I'm also glad 2filter exposed the price fixing. Let's people know what's going on and why they (apparently) don't think Hoya's are worth that much. Now people can refuse to buy them at the high price because either a) they aren't worth it or b) out of spite for THK being jerks. But if I were 2filter I wouldn't want more government intervention to make it 'fair' for everyone. We don't need the government regulating school yard fights -- let the next kid punch him. ;)

[Tee Why]

I think the problem is that price fixing is illegal.
The make up industry just lost a large court case for the same thing and had to give away make up for free as a consequence.

Hmmm.... Free filters? Not bad.

[Michael Bottoms]

Perhaps we should be starting a boycott of Hoya products... I know I'm personally not that happy with the company... Price-fixing is a really good reason to avoid a company...

[Nathan]

What's the problem with price fixing? As in, why does 2filter need to file with the government to make them stop? Shouldn't supply and demand solve this problem?


Price fixing artificially inflates prices and prevents supply and demand from occurring

[outbri]

Price fixing artificially inflates prices and prevents supply and demand from occurring

No it doesn't. It stops supply-and-demand on Hoya filters, somewhat. But even so, not really. Hoya artificially inflated the prices to whatever it thought the market would bear when it set a price on its filters to begin with. This artificially inflates it to what some people think the market will bear. We have to prove them wrong.
In the large scale, this has no effect on supply and demand. Fewer Hoya filters will be sold and more of other filters. Eventually the supply of Hoya filters may get so high and so few get sold (low demand for high price not-worth-it filters), that their price will come back down. Or else people will pay inflated prices making the filters worth it. I won't.

I think the problem is that price fixing is illegal.
The make up industry just lost a large court case for the same thing and had to give away make up for free as a consequence.

Hmmm.... Free filters? Not bad.

Lots of things are illegal that I don't think should be. I'm not going to report someone just because they're illegal. I'm going to report someone because a) they're doing something illegal and b) I think it's wrong.
What I was asking was what the problem with price fixing was. Why the government has a law making it illegal, and specifically in relation to this.

[Nathan]

I think the problem with this thread... and with 2filter's claims... is a misunderstanding of price fixing. Price fixing is contrary to general laws of supply and demand. Where there is true price fixing, the market supply does not adjust itself according to consumer demand. Price fixing, as I said above, would prevent the laws of supply and demand from operating. It is illegal because consumers are hurt in the end.

From what I understand here, and why outbri above can make a case, this does not seem to be a case of price fixing. Price fixing occurs amongst competitors. It would be price fixing if Hoya, BW, and Tiffen got together and decided to not sell filters below a certain price. This is illegal because it is collusion and creates a effective monopoly. It is not price fixing when a manufacturer contracts with several retailers and requires that the retailers sell their products at certain prices.

In short, it's not price fixing when only one manufacturer is involved. It seems sneaky to require a retailer to sell at a certain price rather than let the retailer decide his own profit margin based on how much he paid for the filter from the manufacturer... but there's nothing wrong with it. I think it's called vertical price fixing, which is fine.

[moon meadows]

Hoya has had the world market for filters almost to it self. Its time to look again at B+W filters or Tiffen's new HT filters, I have a Tiffen HT and it is really good polarizer. Marumi DHG Filters they all have products at much lower prices

[moon meadows]

The state of Maryland passed a law against price fixing this week, not only effects Maryland stores but any one selling into the state Maryland from on line. 30 other states are considering the same law. interesting story in the Wall Street Journal

[Nathan]

Way to go for the press and the legislature to sensationalize policy arguments by giving something a misleading name. Traditional price fixing is already illegal. What the Maryland law does is prohibit minimum pricing agreements. They are two not totally unrelated things, but different nonetheless.

[SOT]

I deal with things all the time where the MSRP, MAP & MSP are set by the mfg and you get your stones busted if you violate those terms.
Price fixing really is about various vendors or various mfg's getting together to set a MAP or MSP.

MAP minimum advertised price (the "call for price" advert is the work around) and MSP minimum sale price, I have to give statements about how mnay of X item I sold and that they are at least the MSP. (I do not sell camera gear)

[henryp]

The state of Maryland passed a law against price fixing this week

The law prohibits MAP pricing, not price-fixing,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124087840110661643.html

The Wall St Journal
Apr 28, 2009

In a move that could lead to lower prices for consumers across the country, Maryland has passed a law that prohibits manufacturers from requiring retailers to charge minimum prices for their goods.
The law, which takes effect Oct. 1, takes aim at agreements that many manufacturers have been forcing on retailers, requiring them to charge minimum prices on certain products. The practice has surged since a controversial 2007 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that no longer makes such agreements automatically illegal under federal antitrust law.
Under the new state law, retailers doing business in Maryland -- as well as state officials -- can sue manufacturers that impose minimum-pricing agreements. The law also covers transactions in which consumers in Maryland buy goods on the Internet, even when the retailer is based out of state. That could potentially affect manufacturers throughout the country.

[poah]

this can't happen in the EU, hoya would sell the filter to the shop at price X and the shop can then sell the filter for what ever they want. if they don't the EU will fine them.

[dekalbSTEEL]

In a move that could lead to lower prices for consumers across the country, Maryland has passed a law that prohibits manufacturers from requiring retailers to charge minimum prices for their goods.


When has anything government stuck their nose into lead to LOWER prices for the consumer?????

All this will do is lead manufacturers to raise their price to the retailers.

[Sunnyvale]

Hoya is price-fixing??? LOL! Paranoid.

[outbri]

this can't happen in the EU, hoya would sell the filter to the shop at price X and the shop can then sell the filter for what ever they want. if they don't the EU will fine them.

And we all see how great the EU is. :rolleyes:

[p4olom]

When has anything government stuck their nose into lead to LOWER prices for the consumer?????

All this will do is lead manufacturers to raise their price to the retailers.
Thankfully someone understands the basics of economics bw!

[Gridlock]

i personnaly prefer B+W so it doesnt affect me, but it is shady.

it is good to see someone call them out on it, and hopefully people will see this and take it into thier decision making when they go to purchase thier next set of filters.