6,560 FLASH POPS LATER: The Results of "AA" Rechargeable Battery Tests

[rudy_216]

It all depends what you consider "outperforms" means.

I don't care so much that one set of batteries gets 5% more shots. I care about the cycle time. And in the above listed test the Eneloop batteries produced a 10-20% reduction in cycle time compared to the Imedion. With the Eneloops the number of shots per minute was higher.

[FLiPMaRC]

More shots? Or faster cycle time? More shots? Or faster cycle time? More shots? Or faster cycle time?

I couldn't pick so I recently bought one pack of eneloops and one pack of imedions :lol: :lol: :lol:

[baymoe]

This is fantastic work you've done and to share with this community. It has certainly answered many questions that most of us have been asking ourselves. Big Kudos to you!

I'm also curious to know how the Energizer Lithium AA cells fare in this tough competition. A couple packs were purchased to be used strictly for the 430EX II for their exceptional light weight when it comes to top mass.

[Saxi]

Amazing test. Great job.

I think I am seeing results similar to what you are seeing in your tests. I replaced all my AA rechargeable batteries with Eneloops. I recently switched from a Canon 550EX to a 580EX II. I was expecting a significant performance boost using the 580EX II in terms of battery life and recycle time. Unfortunately I am a bit let down, but I think it could be going from 2600 rechargeable to the eneloop 2000. I wanted low discharge as I use flash once every week or two, so they are always sitting around.

When I had my 550EX, I could shoot 2-5 times before having to recharge/replace the batteries, I even used alkaline many times. With the 580EX II, if I don't use fresh charged batteries before I take it, it almost always dies on my early on. In fact, rarely do I even remember running out of batteries, never on a shoot. I would just replace them every 2nd shoot or so.

[SYS]

Amazing test. Great job.

I think I am seeing results similar to what you are seeing in your tests. I replaced all my AA rechargeable batteries with Eneloops. I recently switched from a Canon 550EX to a 580EX II. I was expecting a significant performance boost using the 580EX II in terms of battery life and recycle time. Unfortunately I am a bit let down, but I think it could be going from 2600 rechargeable to the eneloop 2000. I wanted low discharge as I use flash once every week or two, so they are always sitting around.

When I had my 550EX, I could shoot 2-5 times before having to recharge/replace the batteries, I even used alkaline many times. With the 580EX II, if I don't use fresh charged batteries before I take it, it almost always dies on my early on. In fact, rarely do I even remember running out of batteries, never on a shoot. I would just replace them every 2nd shoot or so.

I'd highly recommend getting a CP-E4 external battery pack. It'll provide fast recycle time as well as long and reliable battery use.

[Saxi]

I'd highly recommend getting a CP-E4 external battery pack. It'll provide fast recycle time as well as long and reliable battery use.

I can't really carry that around, I am not doing weddings or anything, just taking pictures of my son and family. But from what I am getting from other people, I should be getting a lot more shots out of this flash. I'd be surprised if I could get 400 let alone 200-300. I need to do some tests I think.

[EmaginePixel]

Very informative test... thanks. Locally, I have purchased Energizer (Sam's club) and Eneloop (Costco). And based on my usage, both are consistent with your results.

[Saxi]

What do you define as a "pop", is that using the pilot test button?

[tim]

What do you define as a "pop", is that using the pilot test button?

It doesn't much matter how it was triggered, but that would be a reasonable assumption. The flash will have been on manual to ensure a consistent output power.

[Mark Cullenane]

I have used Enloop 2000 batteries for some time now, I use 2 580ex2's on jobs including weddings 1 on each camera and I find that I can get about 3/4 the way through a wedding on one set of batteries. I usually take about 30 on a job so I can run the Pocket Wizards as well for the off camera lighting for the set shots.
I have yet to have one fail, however, I plan to replace the rechargables every 12 to 18 months just in case :cool:

[SYS]

What do you define as a "pop", is that using the pilot test button?

Yes. From the post #1, under "Methodology":

3) “Camera Flash Pops” – we tallied 6,560 pops after all was done! We decided to employ the Canon Speedlite 300EZ from my old film photography days as an ideal for such flash “abuse” as opposed to using my 580EX. Although the 580EX would have been perhaps more useful for those who do own the same flash, you can compare the difference in the output level by consulting the following as a reference:

Guide Number (at ISO 100):
Zoom Position (mm): at 35

Canon Speedlite 300EZ: Normal Flash = 25 (83)
Canon Speedlite 580EX: Normal Flash = 36 (118.1)

The flash was popped only when the capacitor was full, indicated by the pilot light being “red.” The flash was given 5 minutes to cool after a series of 20 pops. Each set of 4 “AA” batteries were tested using the ZTS Pulse Load Multi-Battery Tester after each 100th pops until the 500th pops or when the recycle time took too long to be of significance. In order to be accurate the percentage power remaining was only recorded when the ZTS Tester gave the consistent reading three times on each battery. Since not all 4 batteries in a given set read the same power remaining, the power average was calculated by adding the remaining power divided by 4.

[Canonised]

But I thought this question would be of interest to others as well.

If I got a battery grip for my 5D2 camera (where the battery is both expensive and hard to come by) and used six rechargeable Powerex with 2700mh each, would it provide more than six times the power of single camera battery that is rated at 1800mh?

Or would it in fact have less staying power than the original camera battery? If so why?

Just to share here - as a follow up to my earlier post (above).
About a three weeks ago I bought the BG-E6 grip for the 5D2. The original LiIon battery is hard to come by and cost a lot of money (unbelieveably more than the 50mm f1.8 lens!). I needed the grip for portrait and event work but was not going to fork out the huge expense of additional LiIon batteries so I tried out using the rechargeable AAs. To my pleasant surprise, the AA Eneloop (2000mAH) lasted a very long time - much longer than the original LiIon provided - even with the use of heavy lenses like the 85L and shooting with Live view.

Now I plan to get 12 PowerEx AAs (2700mAH) for sole use on the Grip (takes six AA each time). For events and gigs.

OR would it be more advisable to get 12 Eneloop for its capability to hold on to its charge? Any advice on this?

While the Battery Grip is a large outlay, it provides (a) vertical grip and a godsend for portraits and (b) saves me a ton of cash not having to get the several original LiIons for gigs.

THanks to the threadstarter and his review on the rechargeables that led this $ saving solution. :-)

[Saxi]

Just to share here - as a follow up to my earlier post (above).
About a three weeks ago I bought the BG-E6 grip for the 5D2. The original LiIon battery is hard to come by and cost a lot of money (unbelieveably more than the 50mm f1.8 lens!). I needed the grip for portrait and event work but was not going to fork out the huge expense of additional LiIon batteries so I tried out using the rechargeable AAs. To my pleasant surprise, the AA Eneloop (2000mAH) lasted a very long time - much longer than the original LiIon provided - even with the use of heavy lenses like the 85L and shooting with Live view.

Now I plan to get 12 PowerEx AAs (2700mAH) for sole use on the Grip (takes six AA each time). For events and gigs.

OR would it be more advisable to get 12 Eneloop for its capability to hold on to its charge? Any advice on this?

While the Battery Grip is a large outlay, it provides (a) vertical grip and a godsend for portraits and (b) saves me a ton of cash not having to get the several original LiIons for gigs.

THanks to the threadstarter and his review on the rechargeables that led this $ saving solution. :-)

I heard burst is significantly decreased with AA's and overall battery life. Although with the 6 AA you are really comparing to two LiIons as that is what the grip would hold.

One of the reasons I wanted to go to a grip was for the AA, then after I got it, I found out the battery life is suppose to be poor, so I never tried it. I should give it a try with my eneloops and see how it goes. It would be nice. But I have a 50D not a 5D II, at least for now.

[Mark Cullenane]

I heard burst is significantly decreased with AA's and overall battery life. Although with the 6 AA you are really comparing to two LiIons as that is what the grip would hold.

One of the reasons I wanted to go to a grip was for the AA, then after I got it, I found out the battery life is suppose to be poor, so I never tried it. I should give it a try with my eneloops and see how it goes. It would be nice. But I have a 50D not a 5D II, at least for now.

Whilst I have never used the AA module in my 5Dmk2 I have 2 x 5Dmk2 batteries for my grip and have never flattened them yet even on long jobs, however just in case, I do take the recharger with me so if I am worried that the batteries may go flat I can remove one battery at a time put it on charge and keep shooting with the other battery in the grip.

[tim]

Now I plan to get 12 PowerEx AAs (2700mAH) for sole use on the Grip (takes six AA each time). For events and gigs.

OR would it be more advisable to get 12 Eneloop for its capability to hold on to its charge? Any advice on this?

Given the test results of the 2700mah cells having a pretty good shelf life i'd get them. Or get a set of each, a set or two of PowerEx as your primary cells, and a set of Enloop to sit in the bag as a backup. Batteries are cheap, especially compared with the 5DII :)

[Saxi]

Given the test results of the 2700mah cells having a pretty good shelf life i'd get them. Or get a set of each, a set or two of PowerEx as your primary cells, and a set of Enloop to sit in the bag as a backup. Batteries are cheap, especially compared with the 5DII :)

Anyone want to do a test with 2x LiIons vs 6 Eneloops?

[Canonised]

Anyone want to do a test with 2x LiIons vs 6 Eneloops?

YES! I would love to know what would be the user experience on that. Unfortunately I have only one LiIon with me right now.

BUT in all fairness - for me anyway - my original hope for using the six AA rehargeables is to have them as alternative to the one single Li-Ion. In my mind, it can and does work as an alternative to a single. A very affordable alternative at that.

As for whether it is able to keep up with two Li-Ions - I am not sure if it will. Maybe two 2700mAH Powerex could do it. I would be interested to know.

Given the test results of the 2700mah cells having a pretty good shelf life i'd get them. Or get a set of each, a set or two of PowerEx as your primary cells, and a set of Enloop to sit in the bag as a backup. Batteries are cheap, especially compared with the 5DII :)

Unfortunately they sell them in packs of 4 :-(
So buying three packs gives me 12. Two sets for the Battery Grip. My 8 Eneloops then goes back as back up for my two speedlights.

Whilst I have never used the AA module in my 5Dmk2 I have 2 x 5Dmk2 batteries for my grip and have never flattened them yet even on long jobs, however just in case, I do take the recharger with me so if I am worried that the batteries may go flat I can remove one battery at a time put it on charge and keep shooting with the other battery in the grip.

What gets me is that two LiIon here is just short of the price of the grip itself. Anyway, I was out in the field on Saturday doing a model portrait shoot. I took my grip with Eneloops (not fully recharged) with my original LiIon as back up. I shot over 280 captures (with lots deleted) using continuous shooting mode. I never needed the LiIon. :-)

But I needed to recharge them all when I got back though!

I heard burst is significantly decreased with AA's and overall battery life. Although with the 6 AA you are really comparing to two LiIons as that is what the grip would hold.

One of the reasons I wanted to go to a grip was for the AA, then after I got it, I found out the battery life is suppose to be poor, so I never tried it. I should give it a try with my eneloops and see how it goes. It would be nice. But I have a 50D not a 5D II, at least for now.

I have no idea if that is true or not. But hey, they are a lot cheaper than the Original LiIOns! But based on what I have experienced using the rechargeable AAs I have absolutely no problem with using them long term as alternative to the original LiIon batt pack.

[Saxi]

YES! I would love to know what would be the user experience on that. Unfortunately I have only one LiIon with me right now.



Unfortunately they sell them in packs of 4 :-(
So buying three packs gives me 12. Two sets for the Battery Grip. My 8 Eneloops then goes back as back up for my two speedlights.



What gets me is that two LiIon here is just short of the price of the grip itself. Anyway, I was out in the field on Saturday doing a model portrait shoot. I took my grip with Eneloops (not fully recharged) with my original LiIon as back up. I shot over 280 captures (with lots deleted) using continuous shooting mode. I never needed the LiIon. :-)

But I needed to recharge them all when I got back though!



I have no idea if that is true or not. But hey, they are a lot cheaper than the Original LiIOns! But based on what I have experienced using the rechargeable AAs I have absolutely no problem with using them long term as alternative to the original LiIon batt pack.

I'm going to start shooting with 6 eneloops in my grip and see how well that takes me. If i notice anything either way, I will post an update.

[Saxi]

I'm going to start shooting with 6 eneloops in my grip and see how well that takes me. If i notice anything either way, I will post an update.

Well I shot the 6 eneloops in my grip on the 50D. I got about 650-700 or so images before the battery life went from full battery to when the 50D registers low battery, I do not know how many shots I will get after that as I generally replace the batteries at that point. I will run 6 eneloops again and perhaps run it dead and see how many shots I can get total. I used IS full time and 4 second review time. Very little live view usage.

Since my 580EX II is at Canon, I used on-board flash for some of the shots, I would say 15-20% of the time I used the on-board flash for those 650-700 shots. I am not sure how many shots two BP511 batteries would be rated for. From what I understand they are about 800+ shots a battery.

I'm guessing the 6 eneloops are roughly equal to one BP511.

[Canonised]

Well I shot the 6 eneloops in my grip on the 50D. I got about 650-700 or so images before the battery life went from full battery to when the 50D registers low battery, I do not know how many shots I will get after that as I generally replace the batteries at that point. I will run 6 eneloops again and perhaps run it dead and see how many shots I can get total. I used IS full time and 4 second review time. Very little live view usage.

Since my 580EX II is at Canon, I used on-board flash for some of the shots, I would say 15-20% of the time I used the on-board flash for those 650-700 shots. I am not sure how many shots two BP511 batteries would be rated for. From what I understand they are about 800+ shots a battery.

I'm guessing the 6 eneloops are roughly equal to one BP511.


Great! Thanks for sharing. Now I wonder if someone could do the same with six PowerExs! :-)

[Johnny V]

My first introduction to rechargeables were the PowerEx's about 6 years ago. Major problem was some were a little shorter than spec so they didn't work with all equipment. Has anyone seen this with the newer ones? That really turned me off to rechargeables. Been using alkaline ever since.

[tim]

My first introduction to rechargeables were the PowerEx's about 6 years ago. Major problem was some were a little shorter than spec so they didn't work with all equipment. Has anyone seen this with the newer ones? That really turned me off to rechargeables. Been using alkaline ever since.

PowerEx cells work in everything i've tried them in. That's not a lot of things, but they look exactly the same size as a regular battery to me.

[Johnny V]

That's good to know. I hope I just had a bad batch. Some PowerEx batteries were 1-2mm shorter than standard and didn't make solid contact on some devices. But as mentioned that was over six years ago.

[Saxi]

That's good to know. I hope I just had a bad batch. Some PowerEx batteries were 1-2mm shorter than standard and didn't make solid contact on some devices. But as mentioned that was over six years ago.

I ran another set of 6 eneloops and took about 300-400 pictures and it is showing low battery, I will keep them in and see how many pictures I get after that, I did run a lot of live view as I was shooting fireworks.

[FlashZebra]

Soo Young,

Any opinion on the possibility that the Sanyo Eneloops and the Duracell "Pre Charged" (made in Japan - "white top") are the same basic cells, possibly both produced on the same assembly line.

Under close inspection they physically look very alike, other than the outer head shrink "branding" cover graphics.

Even the slight texture on the positive terminal looks identical.

Note there is another Duracell "Pre Charged" that is made in China (black top).

Can you also confirm that you tested the made in Japan (white top) version. From your images in the first couple of posts in this thread this appears to be the case.

See:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/0d/01/2e1be03ae7a00c564ee6e110.L._AA280_.jpg


http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/75/8f/1d6ac060ada06a259d3de110.L.jpg

Enjoy! Lon

[SYS]

Soo Young,

Any opinion on the possibility that the Sanyo Eneloops and the Duracell "Pre Charged" (made in Japan - "white top") are the same basic cells, possibly both produced on the same assembly line.

Under close inspection they physically look very alike, other than the outer head shrink "branding" cover graphics.

Even the slight texture on the positive terminal looks identical.

Note there is another Duracell "Pre Charged" that is made in China (black top).

Can you also confirm that you tested the made in Japan (white top) version. From your images in the first couple of posts in this thread this appears to be the case.



Hi Lon,

Prior to the test, I had known about the Duracell "Made in Japan" with white top and those that are "Made in China" with black top. I intentionally chose the ones with white top (Made in Japan) for my test.

I also heard of the rumor that the white top Duracells and eneloops are of the same make. My opinion on this is as good as anyone else's, frankly, as I haven't heard anything "official." As far as I'm concerned, it's just a rumor. When you look at the results between pre-charged Duracells and eneloops, they're pretty close together in all areas tested. But they still do exhibit enough subtle differences that I personally do suspect that they were not manufactured "identically." But whatever differences, they're certainly not significant enough for me to favor one brand over the other. However, if I'm to choose between the two, I'd go with eneloops without any hesitation for the simple reason that the pre-charged Duracells can be easily mistaken with Alkalines whereas you have zero chance of mistaking the all white eneloops with anything but.

[FlashZebra]

Hi Lon,

Prior to the test, I had known about the Duracell "Made in Japan" with white top and those that are "Made in China" with black top. I intentionally chose the ones with white top (Made in Japan) for my test.

I also heard of the rumor that the white top Duracells and eneloops are of the same make. My opinion on this is as good as anyone else's, frankly, as I haven't heard anything "official." As far as I'm concerned, it's just a rumor. When you look at the results between pre-charged Duracells and eneloops, they're pretty close together in all areas tested. But they still do exhibit enough subtle differences that I personally do suspect that they were not manufactured "identically." But whatever differences, they're certainly not significant enough for me to favor one brand over the other. However, if I'm to choose between the two, I'd go with eneloops without any hesitation for the simple reason that the pre-charged Duracells can be easily mistaken with Alkalines whereas you have zero chance of mistaking the all white eneloops with anything but.

Soo Young,

Thank you for the opinion. I just ordered 16 AA Eneloops.

And also thank both your son and youself for such nice information; nicely planned testing, attention to detail, and easy to understand codified results.

We are certainly lucky to have such a high quality contribution to this forum.

Enjoy! Lon

[SYS]

Thanks, Lon! Enjoy your eneloops!

[corinmcblide]

so after reading all 12 pages of this wonderful sticky. i think i got all the information i could possibly wish for. i still have one question regarding chargers. are there any differences in the performance of the maha c9000 and the lacrosse bc9009? and how many functions do you need to keep these batteries at the top of their game for as long as possible?

btw - i am planning on getting imedions

[SYS]

so after reading all 12 pages of this wonderful sticky. i think i got all the information i could possibly wish for. i still have one question regarding chargers. are there any differences in the performance of the maha c9000 and the lacrosse bc9009? and how many functions do you need to keep these batteries at the top of their game for as long as possible?

btw - i am planning on getting imedions

The differences between the two chargers are nicely analyzed by the reviewer named "NLee the Engineer" here:

http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC-9009-AlphaPower-Battery/product-reviews/B00077AA5Q/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

After reading the analysis between the two I decided on the La Crosse charger.

[tim]

The differences between the two chargers are nicely analyzed by the reviewer named "NLee the Engineer" here:

http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC-9009-AlphaPower-Battery/product-reviews/B00077AA5Q/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

After reading the analysis between the two I decided on the La Crosse charger.

He overstates the difficultly of the C-9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325). You do need to press a few buttons, but for everyday use you don't need to push a single button - it does everything automatically. To set charge currents or use the more advanced features you do need to press some buttons, but it's easy to use.

Another thing he got wrong is reading the display. You push the "slot" button to advance the display to the cell you'd like information about. If you leave it cycle it does take a while to display all the info about each cell, but with that one button you can get all the info you need about all four cells in about 5 seconds.

[Johnny V]

....
btw - i am planning on getting imedions

Here's a comparison between Imedions and Eneloops in a Nikon flash:

http://www.calvinstudio.net/?p=472

[purpletiger]

Here is a test (http://www.photomalaysia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74823) that has the opposite results (Eneloop outperform the Imedions). Also a real world experiment and well worth checking out if only for the fact the poor guy has a melted flash head to show for his efforts. To be fair I've included this test on that site just so people can see for themselves.

I posted this awhile ago. I think this is the same guy with the same test on a different site.

My PowerEx 2700s are only registering between 1900 and 2200 mAh capacities even after a few 'Refresh' cycles and they're hardly used! Must be a bad batch or something. 2 of them also lose ALL their charge after a week.
But my Imedions are working as expected. Because of this, Im going to use LSDs from now on. Next purchase - Eneloops, just out of curiosity. And to do my own test against the Imedions.

[zaathrus]

tiger, I have been (supposedly) reliably informed that higher mAH than 2200 in an AA cell are often accompanied by poor reliability and high self discharge due to the size constraints of the AA cell and the limitations of the NiMH chemistry.

[purpletiger]

tiger, I have been (supposedly) reliably informed that higher mAH than 2200 in an AA cell are often accompanied by poor reliability and high self discharge due to the size constraints of the AA cell and the limitations of the NiMH chemistry.

Well that explains it :(

[GH_ATL_GA]

Just thought I'd pass along some info received from Thomas Distributing addressing a problem I had with some Imedion AA batteries not being recognized in my MAHA C9000 charger.

Apparently there is sufficient variation in the Imedion positive post length that in some cases the battery won't make proper contact in a device. This was the case with a few Imedion AAs in my C-9000 charger. I've had no problem actually using them in any flash (420EX, 540EZ, 580EX/EXII) or other device.

The 'short' terminals, at least in my case, are almost impossible to detect by eye. Measuring with a caliper shows a positive post length that's about 0.1mm less on the 'short' cells than that measured on the 'good' cells.

The #1 slot of my C9000 is clearly just a bit longer than the others since all cells make contact in slots 2 - 4 (with sufficient prodding.) Even by bending the negative contact spring of the slot to shorten the length between positive & negative terminals a problematic cell still won't make reliable contact at the positive terminal, which is rigid & located in a recessed channel. A small piece of aluminum foil between a cell's (+) post & the slot's positive terminal makes for an easy temporary fix. The distance that needs to be bridged is short enough that a small dab of solder on the slot's positive terminal will suffice for a permanent fix, at least for the batteries I have now.

To the credit of the folks at Thomas Distributing, they responded within an hour to my e-mail & offered without prompting to replace any cells I wished to exchange for any comparably priced brand. I'm sufficiently pleased with the performance of the Imedions, both in terms of charge retention & capacity, that I don't care to experiment with other brands & will stick with Imedions.

George

[vivala1210]

just wondering. i left four powerex batteries fully charged in it little case and in my camera bag. about 2-3 weeks later, i take it out, the batteries are empty. i don't use it or anything and this happened twice. if you guys have any idea why this is occurring it will help a lot thanks.

[SYS]

Just thought I'd pass along some info received from Thomas Distributing addressing a problem I had with some Imedion AA batteries not being recognized in my MAHA C9000 charger.

Apparently there is sufficient variation in the Imedion positive post length that in some cases the battery won't make proper contact in a device. This was the case with a few Imedion AAs in my C-9000 charger. I've had no problem actually using them in any flash (420EX, 540EZ, 580EX/EXII) or other device.

The 'short' terminals, at least in my case, are almost impossible to detect by eye. Measuring with a caliper shows a positive post length that's about 0.1mm less on the 'short' cells than that measured on the 'good' cells.

The #1 slot of my C9000 is clearly just a bit longer than the others since all cells make contact in slots 2 - 4 (with sufficient prodding.) Even by bending the negative contact spring of the slot to shorten the length between positive & negative terminals a problematic cell still won't make reliable contact at the positive terminal, which is rigid & located in a recessed channel. A small piece of aluminum foil between a cell's (+) post & the slot's positive terminal makes for an easy temporary fix. The distance that needs to be bridged is short enough that a small dab of solder on the slot's positive terminal will suffice for a permanent fix, at least for the batteries I have now.

To the credit of the folks at Thomas Distributing, they responded within an hour to my e-mail & offered without prompting to replace any cells I wished to exchange for any comparably priced brand. I'm sufficiently pleased with the performance of the Imedions, both in terms of charge retention & capacity, that I don't care to experiment with other brands & will stick with Imedions.

George

Thanks for the interesting info. Kudos to TD for their customer service... I'm currently favoring Imedions over eneloops after having used both in my recent camping trips. There's so much more power with Imedions that it's easy to sacrifice whatever slight edge eneloops have with lower self-discharge rate...

[SYS]

just wondering. i left four powerex batteries fully charged in it little case and in my camera bag. about 2-3 weeks later, i take it out, the batteries are empty. i don't use it or anything and this happened twice. if you guys have any idea why this is occurring it will help a lot thanks.

Judging by your description you have a set of Powerex 2700's which you've probably used for some time. These batteries are NOT low self-discharging and therefore it's "normal" that you'd find them out of juice after awhile even though you've fully charged them. A new set of Powerex 2700 would last for more than a month without self-discharging, and hence my assumption that yours have been used for some time now. With the non-low self-discharging batteries you need to "condition" them periodically using a more sophisticated charger like MAHA or La Crosse Technology.

[Wilt]

Even non-discharging batteries should not deplete themselves fully in the matter of 3 weeks! The self discharge rate should permit a fully charged NiMH to have some life even after 2 months...the rate amounts to about 3 mo shelf life of a charge. The published rate by one manufacturer is 4% per day (100, 96, 92.2, 88.5, 85% and so on); the self discharge is initially higher, but slacks off considerably.

[Johnny V]

just wondering. i left four powerex batteries fully charged in it little case and in my camera bag. about 2-3 weeks later, i take it out, the batteries are empty. i don't use it or anything and this happened twice. if you guys have any idea why this is occurring it will help a lot thanks.

Maybe the charger isn't really charging the batteries?

[vivala1210]

well, i used the batteries before right after i charged it. maybe i need to update my charger. its pretty old. is this charger good?
http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC-700-Battery-Charger/dp/B000RSOV50/ref=acc_glance_grdn_ai_-2
or this one
http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC-9009-AlphaPower-Battery/dp/B00077AA5Q/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1249314723&sr=8-4

[Johnny V]

Can't go wrong with either charger....

[vivala1210]

okay thanks

[LeeSC]

I am also having issues with the Powerex 2700s. I have 8 sets and all seem to be dead after about 1 week in storage. I have attempted to charge them on two different higher end chargers. All sets have less than 5 charge cycles on them. Any ideas?

Lee

[tim]

I am also having issues with the Powerex 2700s. I have 8 sets and all seem to be dead after about 1 week in storage. I have attempted to charge them on two different higher end chargers. All sets have less than 5 charge cycles on them. Any ideas?

Lee

Sounds odd. Do a refresh cycle, it'll take a couple of days, then tell us the capacity it reports at the end. Leave them a week then do a cycle that'll tell you the capacity. Report back your results.

[LeeSC]

Sounds odd. Do a refresh cycle, it'll take a couple of days, then tell us the capacity it reports at the end. Leave them a week then do a cycle that'll tell you the capacity. Report back your results.


Just checked all that I have. All sets were charged on 08/01/2009 on either Delkin Dual Charger (4 sets) or the LaCrosse BC-900 (4 sets). One of the sets reports at 60% and the remainder are dead.

I will give the refresh a try.

[LeeSC]

OK, refreshed a set. At full capacity, they were showing 1.37v each. So far, they have been sitting our for 14 hours and are each showing 1.30v. I will let this set sit for a few more days checking the voltage every 24 hrs or so.

[Kevin Song Photography]

Great work!

Was looking for this today and it took me a bit of time and a couple different search terms. I think it should be stickied :D Anyone else agree?

[Johnny V]

Hmm... I thought this thread was stuck! Did someone un-stick it?

[Kevin Song Photography]

Dunno, but I don't see it...

Actually, I could've sworn it was too. I remember going through all the stickies and this was one of them. But yesterday I couldn't find it when I was looking for it.

[climnof]

Great test! And thanks for sharing.

But I am not quite sure about how to interpret your findings for my flash (580EXII). When you mention the guide number 25 on the 300EX flash do you mean that you did pop the strobe at full output power, wich is 1/1 on the 580EXII?

I am asking because I am having a problem with a brand new set of Sanyo Ni-MH 2300 with a 30 minute charger. The batteries were not pre-charged like the ones you've tested. After the first full charge I could get only 4/6 shots at full power. The second full charge gave me a bit more. After the third full charge I counted 80 pops at 1/4th of power. The full charge in all the cases lasted no more than 3 minutes (according to the specification the charger take 30min for a full charge). When I recharge the batteries there is still some power in them, because I can still operate a radio, but not fire even a single flash at 1/128th power. Shall I return the set? Is there something I am doing wrong?

Any clue?

D

[Johnny V]

Could be a bad charger or the batteries don't take kindly to a 30 minute charge. Also a fast charger will lower the life of the battery very fast. It's best to use a slow charger like the ones mentioned a few pages back.

[Paul Li]

Hmm, unstickied?

[xxmxaxrxyxx]

great info!

[DarthSparky]

Thank you for doing this. Really helpful.

[topcatproduction]

Going to go with the Eneloops as dont use my gear all the time- would this charger be a good little cheapy to go with them? I just like the fact they say it is microprocessor controlled- so presumably if you accidentally leave it on over a day or so it doesn't keep pumping amps through the batteries?!!! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120441762895&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3D R40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D120441762895%26_fvi%3 D1&_rdc=1

[Johnny V]

That's a fast charger which really isn't recommended as it lessens the life of batteries considerably.

[SYS]

But I am not quite sure about how to interpret your findings for my flash (580EXII). When you mention the guide number 25 on the 300EX flash do you mean that you did pop the strobe at full output power, wich is 1/1 on the 580EXII?

Guide Number (at ISO 100):
Zoom Position (mm): at 35

Canon Speedlite 300EZ: Normal Flash = 25 (83)
Canon Speedlite 580EX: Normal Flash = 36 (118.1)

Since a lot of folks, including myself, use 580EX or EXII, I posted the Guide Number comparison for the flash that I actually used for the test (300EZ) and the popular 580EX, so that readers can interpret the difference of power output given the identical circumstances, i.e., at ISO 100, 35mm, and at full flash capacitor, indicated by "red" led. As you can see, 580EX is a more powerful flash than 300EZ, so it'd eat up more battery power. From the guide numbers you can do the math for the % power difference and then figure out what the number of pops you'd get out of your 580EXII (see your manual for its Guide Number which may be different from 580EX) when using, let's say, eneloops or Powerex 2700's.

[nickbunyun]

Hey im thinking of getting Sanyo Eneloop batteries..


are these it?
http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-Eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargable-Batteries/dp/B000IV0REA

[Johnny V]

Yes! The 2,000 mAh AA batteries...

[topcatproduction]

Ok so fast charger not best, I dont mind leaving batteries on overnight on slow charges- I can normally organise it so I'm not in a rush anyway! Eneloops are the way forewards for me- when looking on Amazon there are 2 types of charger (in a package with the Eneloops), 1 slow 1 not so slow- which would be the best choice? I dont want to spend loads on a top notch charger as dont need or use flash very often.

[e02937]

I hope he got an A++ for this work, it's excellent! Thanks for posting!

[tim]

Ok so fast charger not best, I dont mind leaving batteries on overnight on slow charges- I can normally organise it so I'm not in a rush anyway! Eneloops are the way forewards for me- when looking on Amazon there are 2 types of charger (in a package with the Eneloops), 1 slow 1 not so slow- which would be the best choice? I dont want to spend loads on a top notch charger as dont need or use flash very often.

From what i've read you want to charge NiMH cells at approx half their capacity per hour, so a two hour charge. This helps with the "battery full" detection. I'd probably go with the slow charger of those two options. For a great charger get the Maha C-9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325), it works very well and has a few tricks up its sleeves like recovery of bad cells, breaking in new cells, etc.

[kylefornia]

hahah i'm surprised. the batteries that I use aren't even up there and I own like 80 of them for all my flashes and radio remotes.

[sapearl]

How do they work Kyle? If they deliver what you want then I'd say you have a good batch;).

hahah i'm surprised. the batteries that I use aren't even up there and I own like 80 of them for all my flashes and radio remotes.

[ssnxp]

I think I'll be picking up some Powerex to complement my Eneloops.. or replace.

[pokgai]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/09/powergenix-nizn-rechargeable-aa-batteries-finally-some-cells-w/

Has anyone tried "powergenix" batteries? Seems like the guys on Engadget like them a lot.

[tim]

One thread I read on another forum said the PowerGenix NiZn cells work fine in Nikon and Canon speedlites, and may charge the flash slightly faster.

They're lower mah though, this spec sheet (http://www.powergenix.com/docs/powergenix-specs-aa.pdf) specifies them as 1250-1500mah, about 1000mah less than Powerex cells. Thing is as they're a higher voltage that could be misleading. A calculation I saw estimates them as similar to 2500mah in a 1.2V NiMH cell, given their nominal voltage of 1.6V.

[nickbunyun]

just ordered by 4 eneloops with charger :)

[fortinaa]

I love having eneloops in my bag, as they never let me down if I've remembered to charge them after a gig. That is my normal process... if they are in a flash after a job, I put them right on the charger. My Powerex batteries, I don't dare. I went to a job once probably a month after charging the powerex batteries. I don't think I got 100 pops out of them. Maybe I got a bad set of them (came with the charger), but they are definitely a charge the day you're gonna use them battery in my case. I've found that my cheapy Energizer 2500 mah batteries hold their charge and last longer, even though they are 6-12mo older and have probably gone through many more charging cycles.

With this data though, I'm tempted to try a few more fresh sets of Powerex cells. I love the eneloops, but they do not get the same number of flash pops as the higher mah sets. My un-scientific findings are about the same as the OP though. Performance is near equal for the first few hundred pops, and then it goes downhill.

[SYS]

I love having eneloops in my bag, as they never let me down if I've remembered to charge them after a gig. That is my normal process... if they are in a flash after a job, I put them right on the charger. My Powerex batteries, I don't dare. I went to a job once probably a month after charging the powerex batteries. I don't think I got 100 pops out of them. Maybe I got a bad set of them (came with the charger), but they are definitely a charge the day you're gonna use them battery in my case. I've found that my cheapy Energizer 2500 mah batteries hold their charge and last longer, even though they are 6-12mo older and have probably gone through many more charging cycles.

With this data though, I'm tempted to try a few more fresh sets of Powerex cells. I love the eneloops, but they do not get the same number of flash pops as the higher mah sets. My un-scientific findings are about the same as the OP though. Performance is near equal for the first few hundred pops, and then it goes downhill.

Non-LSD NiMh batteries like Powerex 2700s do discharge, so it's very normal that you've only managed to get about 100 pops a month after recharging them. With a new set of Powerex 2700s you'd have gotten about 3 times more pops even after a month without recharging, so your description tells me that yours were used for sometime with numerous recharge cycles and probably without "conditioning" them using a more sophisticated recharger like MAHA or La Crosse. Without conditioning these non-LSD batteries on a regular basis, they do deteriorate with memory effect. LSD batteries like eneloops are low maintenance but not as powerful as Powerex 2700s whereas Powerex 2700s and other non-LSD batteries offer more power but a hassle in maintenance. So I have a lot of both and use them for different functions.

[fortinaa]

Actually, I got those 4 Powerex 2700s with the Maha 8 cell conditioning charger when I bought it. But... I always suspected that they may not have been "new." I got the setup on amazon, and when I searched the dealers website after ordering to see what else they had... I found that they did not carry that charger and batteries. So, I wondered if it wasn't some sort of return or closeout type deal. Even when new, the batteries didn't perform as well as my cheaper energizers, which really surprised me.

[SYS]

Actually, I got those 4 Powerex 2700s with the Maha 8 cell conditioning charger when I bought it. But... I always suspected that they may not have been "new." I got the setup on amazon, and when I searched the dealers website after ordering to see what else they had... I found that they did not carry that charger and batteries. So, I wondered if it wasn't some sort of return or closeout type deal. Even when new, the batteries didn't perform as well as my cheaper energizers, which really surprised me.

Yea, that's not right. With my testing of new Powerex 2700 after shelf sitting for a month, they still had near 100% power. I had tested several sets of these and they were all consistent. I don't think you'll run into the same problem when just buying batteries rather than a combo set.

[fortinaa]

In your usage, how often do you buy new rechargeable and recycle the old? I've always wondered if I should toss the 1-2yr old batteries that I've probably put through the charger 100 times. I've got so many sets that it's hard to nail down the culprit cells. Any tricks for for doing a measurement that tells you when a rechargeable is no longer performing as it should?

[sapearl]

Don't toss the old batteries yet Aaron. I have some that are more than three years old; some still work quite well, but others made me wonder.

Once I got the Maha C9000 charger, that helped solve part of the problem. As some have mentioned, this partiucular charger is a little more complex to operate, and you need to read - the very easy to understand - instruction sheet, but it does much more than the average charger:

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/maha-mhc9000-advanced-battery-chargerbrfree-deluxe-storage-case-included-p-405.html?SP_id=&osCsid=6dgp3m9tsvht77bonp78maub94

I suspected that some of the old Energizers were crapping out or were already dead. The maha has a Refresh and Analyze mode which takes a while to run (allow more than a day) but it will rejuvenate some old batteries, or pronounce them DOA.

I cycled my old energizers through on them - supposedly 2400 mah cels - and several were in fact dead. The charger very quickly ID'd the culprit cels with the "high" designation in the large and very easy to read display. The others still work, and may now have a slightly better charge on them.

Also, read the PDF instruction sheet on this link. That info helped me to understand the charger prior to making the purchase. - Stu

In your usage, how often do you buy new rechargeable and recycle the old? I've always wondered if I should toss the 1-2yr old batteries that I've probably put through the charger 100 times. I've got so many sets that it's hard to nail down the culprit cells. Any tricks for for doing a measurement that tells you when a rechargeable is no longer performing as it should?

[fortinaa]

Maybe in my downtime, I'll run a refresh on all my energizers and see if it calls any DOA.

I have this charger:
http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/maha-mhc801d-aa-aaa-battery-chargerbrdeluxe-8-cell-professional-battery-charger-w-full-lcd-displaybrbrfree-accessory-bag-2-free-eight-cell-battery-holdersbrspecial-price-6897-p-437.html?SP_id=&osCsid=gduskqs7kgea2f9jbmdl4uk1i0

I think it is the model 801d

I've run the refresh before, but I don't recall it telling me any cells were ever dead. I just worry about taking them to a wedding, putting 100 shots on a set and having them die in the middle of something important. Normally, when I put a new set in, I have an expectation of at least 300 shots.

[sapearl]

That looks like a really nice unit you have there Aaron. I had considered it but wanted to start out with something small first.

When I did the refresh test, it was just a couple of minutes before the charger reported " high " for the DOA battery. I also notice right at the start of charging one of those dead cells, that if the voltage is well of 2.xx then it's a good bet it will fail.

I usually carry 2-3 times the number of batteries I need for my 580ex's and will replace them before they drain during the day just to be on the safe side. Just call it a paranoid belt & suspenders sort of thing :lol:.

Maybe in my downtime, I'll run a refresh on all my energizers and see if it calls any DOA.

I have this charger:
http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/maha-mhc801d-aa-aaa-battery-chargerbrdeluxe-8-cell-professional-battery-charger-w-full-lcd-displaybrbrfree-accessory-bag-2-free-eight-cell-battery-holdersbrspecial-price-6897-p-437.html?SP_id=&osCsid=gduskqs7kgea2f9jbmdl4uk1i0

I think it is the model 801d

I've run the refresh before, but I don't recall it telling me any cells were ever dead. I just worry about taking them to a wedding, putting 100 shots on a set and having them die in the middle of something important. Normally, when I put a new set in, I have an expectation of at least 300 shots.

[Wilt]

I just worry about taking them to a wedding, putting 100 shots on a set and having them die in the middle of something important. Normally, when I put a new set in, I have an expectation of at least 300 shots.

And that is why a fully prepared wedding pro has spares...if the batteries unexpected go flat early, you have other batteries to quickly load and continue as if nothing had happened!:D

[anthony11]

Yeah FORGET YOU ENELOOP YOUR OVER PRICED!
[...]BIG FAIL.
I'm going to go way out on a limb here and guess that you're 17 or so.

[SYS]

In your usage, how often do you buy new rechargeable and recycle the old? I've always wondered if I should toss the 1-2yr old batteries that I've probably put through the charger 100 times. I've got so many sets that it's hard to nail down the culprit cells. Any tricks for for doing a measurement that tells you when a rechargeable is no longer performing as it should?

As a very busy person who also happens to be quite lazy when it comes to detailed chores like battery recharging, conditioning, organizing, etc., the best solution that I've come up with (speaking for myself) was purchasing a Canon CP-E4 and loading up my flash as well as this battery pack with all Imedions or eneloops. Although you can get more power with loading the same units with Powerex 2700s or something similar, the combo use of the battery pack with Imedions or eneloops is enough for most occasions, including weddings. With another dozen or so of these LSD batteries as backup tucked away in your bag (or another battery pack/cartridge already loaded and ready to be exchanged), you DO NOT have to deal with the hassle of dealing with those self-discharging, non-LSD rechargeables and their maintenance and conditioning, etc. Because the LSD batteries like eneloops can be recharged up to around 1,000 times due to no memory effect, I don't have to worry about them as much. I'm very happy with this lazy man's solution. :D

[fortinaa]

As a very busy person who also happens to be quite lazy when it comes to detailed chores like battery recharging, conditioning, organizing, etc., the best solution that I've come up with (speaking for myself) was purchasing a Canon CP-E4 and loading up my flash as well as this battery pack with all Imedions or eneloops. Although you can get more power with loading the same units with Powerex 2700s or something similar, the combo use of the battery pack with Imedions or eneloops is enough for most occasions, including weddings. With another dozen or so of these LSD batteries as backup tucked away in your bag (or another battery pack/cartridge already loaded and ready to be exchanged), you DO NOT have to deal with the hassle of dealing with those self-discharging, non-LSD rechargeables and their maintenance and conditioning, etc. Because the LSD batteries like eneloops can be recharged up to around 1,000 times due to no memory effect, I don't have to worry about them as much. I'm very happy with this lazy man's solution. :D

I have almost the identical lazy man's solution with the cp-e3. I keep the eneloops in there at all times, and I put a fresh set of energizers in the flash itself. I have had a few occasions where it unexpectedly failed still. What I wish was that there was a way to tell if it is the batteries in the pack or the head that went dead.

Either way, I always have spares. I think I probably have a total of 8-10 sets of 4 (5 sets being eneloops).

[anthony11]

With another dozen or so of these LSD batteries as backup tucked away in your bag (or another battery pack/cartridge already loaded and ready to be exchanged), you DO NOT have to deal with the hassle of dealing with those self-discharging, non-LSD rechargeables and their maintenance and conditioning, etc.
You do, though, have the box and cord to wrangle, and I must admit that even for photo gear,~$150 is absurd for a plastic box with a few passive metal bits inside.

[SYS]

You do, though, have the box and cord to wrangle, and I must admit that even for photo gear,~$150 is absurd for a plastic box with a few passive metal bits inside.

Yes, it's a personal choice one has to make: either to rely on "the box and cord" to draw more power from, or to just go with a set of "AA" batteries inside the flash unit for limited power. If I'm just doing a casual shooting, then I place a set of Powerex 2700's into my flash unit and go. If I'm doing a rather intensive shooting, then I go with all Imedions or eneloops in my flash unit as well as my CP-E4 -- with extra sets of these batteries in my bag. I don't really find the "wrangle" issue as I can easily tuck my CP-E4 inside my pocket, or my "torsopack."

I do agree that $150 is rather absurd... I wish FlashZebra had this available a few years back. It's $64.50, and that's a very reasonable pricing:

http://flashzebra.com/products/0155/index.shtml

Here's what the forum members have to say about Lon's product:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=775810

[fortinaa]

I'm on the same boat. I use the battery pack when necessary, and just load batteries if I'm not doing intense shooting.

I too wish I would have known Lon had that battery pack. In fact, I still might pick one up.

[NorCalNomad]

Just another *thumbs up* for a great review :D

[steve5454]

Very helpful review. I've been looking for the best choice for rechargeable for intensive shooting. I had been using the Eneloops with the 580EXII and the battery pack and performance wasn't always great however reliability was. Recycle time never was great though. I've just ordered the Powermax batteries and am will be using them for the intensive shooting where recycle time is important.

[JJD.Photography]

Thanks for taking the time to perform and post all the tests!

I will continue to purchase / use the eneloops :cool:

[alha]

Hi, just finished reading all 16 pages, very good post, thanks for doing the testing, it helped me spend about $100 tonite... ;). I have a quick question, I just purchased the PowerEx MH-C9000 WizardOne Charger-Analyzer w/ Four 2700mAh AA Batteries, and saw a link a few pages back about comparing it to the La Crosse model. Looking at that thread (I think it was from late 2007) it showed the number of keystrokes to get it into some of the modes, one was around 48! I also noticed a post from sapearl a week or so ago mentioning that it is a little more complex to operate, but I was wondering if in the last 2+ years, they have made the MH-C9000 any more user friendly? Apperently it still isn't exactly _easy_, but has it improved since that comparision was written?

I also bought 8 packs of Eneloops and PowerGenix 1.6v to see how they will hold up as well. I will be using them in my Nikon SB-900 flash unit. From what I read, all should work pretty well, though some will be a bit higher maintence than others, but that's ok.

One other note while clicking around on links to the charger reviews, I came across one that mentioned 3 models by a company called Ansmann, and the one that caught my eye was the XC3000. Here are a couple links to it, one is the mfg homepage and one is from a company in the UK that sells it. It seems not to be available yet in the US, and sure isn't cheap, but looks pretty nice:

http://www.ansmann.de/cms/consumroot/charging-technology/energy-xc-3000/full-description.html

and

http://www.tantronics.co.uk/scripts/sh000009.cgi?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2etantronics %2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fTantronics_UK_Battery_Char gers_10%2ehtml&WD=energy%20xc3000%20charger%20ansmann&PN=Ansmann_Energy_XC3000_Ansmann_XC3000__Battery_M anagement_System%2ehtml%23achg_2dans_2dxc3000#achg _2dans_2dxc3000

Anyone have a thought on that one, is it overkill? I would hope the price would be less that the 2nd link. I didn't do the exchange rate exactly, but I thought a pound was about 2 or so dollars? If so, Wow... Anyways, thanks again for the great review, it was truly helpful

[tim]

The C9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) is pretty trivial to use, sometimes it requires a few button presses, but to set up even the most complex charging modes takes me maybe 30 seconds. Don't worry about that.

The Ansmann seems like overkill.

Don't forget the PowerGenix cells are NiZn, a totally different chemistry from the NiMH cells, and they require their own charger. I've read some fairly detailed tests about them, their capacity is probably a little less than the NiMH cells but they charge your flash almost twice as fast as NiMH cells.

[markfour]

Big thanks to SYS for doing the research and sharing the results. I'm hoping to improve flash cycle times and battery performance by using a La Crosse BC-9009 Charger, MAHA Powerex 2700 mAh batteries, flashzebra Battery Pack, etc.

There's other AA batteries on Amazon, Thomas Distributing, etc., claiming 2500 to 3000 mAh (for instance - Sanyo 2700 mAh rechargeable batteries). Has anyone tried any of these other batteries? TIA!

[DefJux921]

first, thank you so much sys for making an extremely informative thread.

so i've searched this thread and a few folks have mentioned the new NiZn chemistry batteries but has anybody tried them? how is their shelf life? i read on here and another site and even found a youtube video showing just how fast they can recycle your flash, but nothing about shelf life..

[tim]

so i've searched this thread and a few folks have mentioned the new NiZn chemistry batteries but has anybody tried them? how is their shelf life? i read on here and another site and even found a youtube video showing just how fast they can recycle your flash, but nothing about shelf life..

From what i've read, and the tests by a member on another forum, they seem to retain their charge well. Consider them the equivalent of Enloops.

[markfour]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/09/powergenix-nizn-rechargeable-aa-batteries-finally-some-cells-w/

http://www.amazon.com/PowerGenix-PGX1HRCH-4AAZiNc-1-6v-4-Position-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B0029NZVZ0


It would seem NiZn batteries fully charged will yield about the same number of flashes as Eneloops but with the flash recycling faster.

[maresp5]

Big thanks to SYS for doing the research and sharing the results. I'm hoping to improve flash cycle times and battery performance by using a La Crosse BC-9009 Charger, MAHA Powerex 2700 mAh batteries, flashzebra Battery Pack, etc.

There's other AA batteries on Amazon, Thomas Distributing, etc., claiming 2500 to 3000 mAh (for instance - Sanyo 2700 mAh rechargeable batteries). Has anyone tried any of these other batteries? TIA!


I purchased a set of the Sanyo 2700 mAh (4 batteries) from Thomas Distributing about a month and a half ago, drawn mostly to the increased power rating. When I got them, I put them though a discharge/re-charge cycle in a MAHA charger and ran a series of extensive flash-cycles in my 580 II. They worked flawlessly and I was very satisfied with my purchase. I ran them through another discharge/ re-charge cycle and stored them in my camera bag with my other equipment.

Flash forward about a month. I had traveled home for the Christmas holiday with camera equipment in tow. We were celebrating my niece's birthday, which lucky for me (for reasons that will become readily apparent), happens to fall on Christmas eve. I took out my camera and flash and started taking pictures. As expected, the first 4 or 5 shots went without a hitch, but almost immediately after this I began to experience a drastic increase in the cycle time of the flash. After about 20 to 25 shots, I was getting re-cycle times in the 10 to 15 second range. It became so bad after a time that I decided to shut down my photo session for the day out of sheer frustration. I was obviously very disappointed in the performance of the batteries.

Fortunately (the "lucky" part of the story), I had brought a small portable Sanyo re-charger in my bag with me. I placed my batteries into the charger in hopes of having them ready to go for Christmas morning. Happily, everything turned out fine. Took 200+ flash photos that morning with rock solid re-cycle performance times of about 3 seconds between shots. I would certainly have missed the bulk of these shots if I hadn't discovered the battery drain the evening before. I've since ordered a set of Eneloops, hoping that their low discharge claims are legitimate, thus avoiding this situation in the future.

I guess the moral of the story would be if you decide to purchase the Sanyo 2700 mAh, it would help to know in advance if you'll be doing any flash photography that way you can plan appropriately, charging the batteries as close to the photo session as possible, preferably no more than a few days.

[tim]

I know I top up my 2700mah PowerEx AA cells the day before a wedding, even if I charged them earlier in the week, just in case. They usually don't take a lot of power, but a couple hundred ma. I could use the C9000 to work out how much they take after being left for a week, a month, etc, I might one day.

[maresp5]

I know I top up my 2700mah PowerEx AA cells the day before a wedding, even if I charged them earlier in the week, just in case. They usually don't take a lot of power, but a couple hundred ma. I could use the C9000 to work out how much they take after being left for a week, a month, etc, I might one day.


That's a smart practice, tim. In the future, I intend to keep a mixture of Sanyo 2700 mAh and Eneloops. The 2700's for when I can plan ahead and the Eneloops for those impromptu sessions (hoping that they hold a charge well).

[markfour]

Thanks for the feedback. It seems like a good idea to keep a set of fully charged Eneloops at the ready.

[MDJAK]

Well, I'm always late to the party, and what a party this is.

One of the most well written and thought out tests I've ever had the pleasure to read. And I actually understand some of it too.

I have the same charger, but really do nothing but pop the Eneloops in and wait for it to say full. Eneloops have always served me well. I have at least 20 of them if not more.

As to Lacrosse, when I got the charger from them, it came with four Lacrosse batteries. One was dead on arrival and would not take a charge. When I contacted them, their customer service sucked IMHO. They agreed to send me a new battery, but only if I sent my dead one in first. I mean can you imagine that? A stinkin' little battery. Like I was trying to get an extra one from them.

When the battery in my MacBook Pro started doing an expansion act, Apple recalled them, sent out brand new ones with return postage for the old one.

HELLO, Lacrosse. :oops:

ME

[izthistaken]

subscribed :) This is really good info to have!

[anthony11]

A truly amazing amount of research with a thoughtful focus. I'd be cautious wrt taking the battery tester results too quantitatively, though.

[SYS]

It would seem NiZn batteries fully charged will yield about the same number of flashes as Eneloops but with the flash recycling faster.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=774525

[SKIP754]

I rcvd my NiZn batteries this past week and I have to say this will now enable me to truely bring my studio outdoors. The recycle rate on all of my canon flashes(580ex ii, 550ex & 420ex) are easily twice as fast. I did chance it per se by placing all NiZn batteries into my canon cp-e4 (8 batteries) battery pack and 550ex flash w/out a problem. These batteries are for real...now I need a large cell NiZn battery for my Vagabond ii...Bring it on!

[Wilt]

I rcvd my NiZn batteries this past week and I have to say this will now enable me to truely bring my studio outdoors. The recycle rate on all of my canon flashes(580ex ii, 550ex & 420ex) are easily twice as fast. I did chance it per se by placing all NiZn batteries into my canon cp-e4 (8 batteries) battery pack and 550ex flash w/out a problem. These batteries are for real...now I need a large cell NiZn battery for my Vagabond ii...Bring it on!

Just don't fry your flash units by firing it too fast and too often, contrary to the guidelines which Canon publishes in the owner's manual for their flash units.

[tim]

Brian Tao burned out his SB900 flash tube testing NiZn batteries.

[SKIP754]

Just don't fry your flash units by firing it too fast and too often, contrary to the guidelines which Canon publishes in the owner's manual for their flash units.

Over the past week I've used them in my 580EX ii, 550EX & 420EX w/out any issues. I've tried to stress the flashes and I didn't even notice them getting warm/hot. The Canon flashes seem to have no issues with these NiZn batteries at all. All I know is that now I have a flash system that can keep up with me. Life just got a whole lot better for my flash photography. The true test will be the runway shows durring fashion week.

[joosay]

Thanks for the review. I just ordered some MAHA Powerex

[SYS]

Over the past week I've used them in my 580EX ii, 550EX & 420EX w/out any issues. I've tried to stress the flashes and I didn't even notice them getting warm/hot. The Canon flashes seem to have no issues with these NiZn batteries at all. All I know is that now I have a flash system that can keep up with me. Life just got a whole lot better for my flash photography. The true test will be the runway shows durring fashion week.

One thing I don't understand:

When I use eneloops or Powerex 2700's in my CP-E4 battery pack, I find the recycle time to be really fast -- fast enough to meet all my needs. This combo would certainly meet the recycle time needs of your runway fashion shows. So under what other shooting needs of yours that make you feel you need even faster recycle time to disregard people's warnings and testimonials regarding the use of NiZn batteries inside Canon flashes?

It's none of my business what people want to use as their choice of batteries for their flash units. Trust me, I'm not disapproving of your use of NiZn batteries. I'm very curious, though, as to what drives people to take the risk damaging the expensive flash units when the speed of recycle time is fast enough as it is with your external battery pack.

[Wilt]

Over the past week I've used them in my 580EX ii, 550EX & 420EX w/out any issues. I've tried to stress the flashes and I didn't even notice them getting warm/hot. The Canon flashes seem to have no issues with these NiZn batteries at all. All I know is that now I have a flash system that can keep up with me. Life just got a whole lot better for my flash photography. The true test will be the runway shows durring fashion week.

Be forewarned, that one person on POTN publicly admitted to burning out three Canon flash units, before he read the warning and wised up to pay heed to the warnings!

[joosay]

Some people will just have to learn the hard way :)

[TMR Design]

I don't mean to pile on but I agree with those that are giving warning and recommending that you not use NiZn batteries. There are many knowledgeable people making this recommendation and the few that have tried them and are boasting great results without problems should just consider themselves lucky. I'd rather be smart and safe than lucky.

[Wilt]

If you can burn out flash units with AA alkalines or NiMH in the Canon battery back, you can certainly do it with the NiZn batteries, too.

[Lowner]

"Also do you have any data on the mah that each of the batteries hold"?

Thats listed early on in the second post.

[DefJux921]

just got myself some nizn's - they are great. the only way your going to damage your flash with these things is by firing off too many pops without letting the flash cool.

[vwhoward]

Thank you for taking the time to conduct this testing. You obviously put a lot of effort into it. I will tell you that I am smiling after reading the results because I am heavily invested in Powerex 2700 batteries and I use a MAHA 8 cell charger to recharge them. I am very, very satisfied with this combination. I made the decision to use this combination after seeing a photograph of Joe McNally's equipment. When I saw that Joe relied on these I knew that they were the batteries I could count on.

[SYS]

Thank you for taking the time to conduct this testing. You obviously put a lot of effort into it. I will tell you that I am smiling after reading the results because I am heavily invested in Powerex 2700 batteries and I use a MAHA 8 cell charger to recharge them. I am very, very satisfied with this combination. I made the decision to use this combination after seeing a photograph of Joe McNally's equipment. When I saw that Joe relied on these I knew that they were the batteries I could count on.

You certainly invested in the right combo! I got Joe McNally's book way after my testing was done, and I thought it was interesting to see what you were referring to.... But I was salivating more with about a dozen flash units of his... :)

[Mark Booth]

I've found the Rayovac Hybrids on sale in 4-packs (AA or AAA) for $7.99. That's the best price I've been able to find on ANY of the pre-charged NiMH low-self-discharge batteries. Even with tax that works out to just $2.17 per battery.

The Rayovac Hybrids seemed to fair pretty well in the testing. In fact, better than the Eneloops in most tests and only barely behind the Imedions.

Am I missing something here? At $2.17 per battery, aren't the Rayovac Hybrids a "best buy"?

Mark

[Johnny V]

I've purchased the Rayovac 4.0 Lithium like AA batteries on sale for.... 8 for $7.99. Got two sets (16) for $14.00
I haven't used them yet but the battery guru on Amazon thinks the Rayovac's are right up there with Sanyo eneloops.

[Mark Booth]

Johnny, But the Rayovacs you mention are not low self-discharge, are they?! I absolutely need low self-discharge type. I will be putting them in a Yongnu SF-18 (nearly identical to the Canon equiv.) and it will see infrequent use. I need rechargeable batteries that won't go dead in 6-8 months of non-use.

Mark

[tim]

Johnny, But the Rayovacs you mention are not low self-discharge, are they?! I absolutely need low self-discharge type. I will be putting them in a Yongnu SF-18 (nearly identical to the Canon equiv.) and it will see infrequent use. I need rechargeable batteries that won't go dead in 6-8 months of non-use.

Perhaps you should just charge them every few months.

[Mark Booth]

Perhaps you should just charge them every few months.

Why? That's the whole point of low self-discharge batteries. You don't have to change them every few months.

Mark

[tim]

Why? That's the whole point of low self-discharge batteries. You don't have to change them every few months.

I think you expectations are a little high given current technology. If you really need long life go for lithium cells. Even the low discharge cells will run flat eventually.

[DefJux921]

Johnny, But the Rayovacs you mention are not low self-discharge, are they?! I absolutely need low self-discharge type. I will be putting them in a Yongnu SF-18 (nearly identical to the Canon equiv.) and it will see infrequent use. I need rechargeable batteries that won't go dead in 6-8 months of non-use.

Mark

i've also got the rayovac 4.0's, but havent done any testing against my eneloops - however, they ARE low self-discharge.

after a quick search (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=255774) on google, sounds like they hold a decent charge after a year.

I think you expectations are a little high given current technology. If you really need long life go for lithium cells. Even the low discharge cells will run flat eventually.

eneloops retain 85% of their charge after 1 year.

[Johnny V]

Johnny, But the Rayovacs you mention are not low self-discharge, are they?! I absolutely need low self-discharge type. I will be putting them in a Yongnu SF-18 (nearly identical to the Canon equiv.) and it will see infrequent use. I need rechargeable batteries that won't go dead in 6-8 months of non-use.

Mark

As mentioned the Rayovac 4.0 (Litium like) are low self-discharge. Got them for the same reasons you have. I'm usually good about recharging before a job but you never know when you will not have time. In that case I'll back up with Alkaline batteries.

Thanks for the above link DefJux921. Went to this thread where they test Rayvoc 4 with Eneloops... was neck to neck:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=252826

[SlvrScoobie]

I was looking at the La Crosse charger, but there are TONs of pictures of them overheating / exploding on amazon! Should I be worried about that? I usually charge my camera gear overnight before a wedding so im worried about unattended charging.
Should I get the Maha charger for a few more $? Id love to get LaCrosse (smaller, and individual data)

[TMR Design]

I have the Maha and haven't had any problems. It does get hot and the batteries come off the charger smoking hot but I checked with Thomas Distributing and was told that is normal.

[tim]

I was looking at the La Crosse charger, but there are TONs of pictures of them overheating / exploding on amazon! Should I be worried about that? I usually charge my camera gear overnight before a wedding so im worried about unattended charging.
Should I get the Maha charger for a few more $? Id love to get LaCrosse (smaller, and individual data)

I've read more reports of Maha chargers exploding than LaCrosse. IMHO the best thing to do is a slow charge. The Maha 800S is a slower charger, the 801D a faster charger. Both have a "soft" mode, which I use unless i'm really in a rush. If i'm in a rush I point a fan at my charging station.

I have the Maha and haven't had any problems. It does get hot and the batteries come off the charger smoking hot but I checked with Thomas Distributing and was told that is normal.

It might be normal, but it's not good. Powerex batteries are rated at 45 max degrees celcius during charge, above that you're doing damage. If you can't touch them comfortably, they're too hot. Turn the charging rate down, or point a fan at them.

Lots of FAQs here (http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/mhc9000faq.asp) about the fantastic C9000 charger (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325), but it applies to most.

[TMR Design]

I've read more reports of Maha chargers exploding than LaCrosse. IMHO the best thing to do is a slow charge. The Maha 800S is a slower charger, the 801D a faster charger. Both have a "soft" mode, which I use unless i'm really in a rush. If i'm in a rush I point a fan at my charging station.



It might be normal, but it's not good. Powerex batteries are rated at 45 max degrees celcius during charge, above that you're doing damage. If you can't touch them comfortably, they're too hot. Turn the charging rate down, or point a fan at them.

Lots of FAQs here (http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/mhc9000faq.asp) about the fantastic C9000 charger (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325), but it applies to most.

According to Thomas Distributing it's not something I should be concerned with and I haven't had any trouble with the batteries at all. I checked with someone else I know using the Maha and was told that his charger gets warm and the batteries come off the charger very hot.

[tim]

Heat isn't great for batteries, and since there's no real downside to keeping them cool I see no reason not to do it.

[SYS]

I was looking at the La Crosse charger, but there are TONs of pictures of them overheating / exploding on amazon! Should I be worried about that? I usually charge my camera gear overnight before a wedding so im worried about unattended charging.
Should I get the Maha charger for a few more $? Id love to get LaCrosse (smaller, and individual data)

I've heard such complaints for BOTH brands. I don't think the problem lies with a particular brand but user abuses. When I first considered purchasing a charger a few years back, I decided to go with La Crosse after having read a bunch of reviews, because 1) I travel quite a bit and its compact size is a real advantage for such use, and 2) it's cheaper. I like to recharge my batteries at 500mA. Takes a few hours but pretty safe. No problems or issues whatsoever.

I also decided that a more complicated charger isn't going to be a good investment in the long run as battery technology is going more in the LSD (low self discharge) rechargeable batteries with no memory effect. This means no need to spend hours and even days recondition or refreshing those memory-affected batteries.

[tim]

From the Maha FAQ I linked to above (more info there).


Why is it not recommended to charge battery below 0.33C?

When charging below 0.33C (except in BREAK-IN) mode, the batteries may not produce a sufficient end-of-charge signal for the charger to terminate correctly. Although the temperature sensors will safeguard battery overheating, lower charging rate might not cause enough heating in the batteries to trip the sensors.

That means for 2800mah cells they recommend no less than a 930mah charging current.

[edyakamenk]

According to Thomas Distributing it's not something I should be concerned with and I haven't had any trouble with the batteries at all. I checked with someone else I know using the Maha and was told that his charger gets warm and the batteries come off the charger very hot.

I'm using this maha MH-C9000 charger to charge my Powerex 2700mAh. When charging at 0.5C (~1300mAh) I can confirm the charger gets a little warm (only little) and the batteries not even close to hot, little warm YES. Batteries became too hot to hold when being fast charge at 1C and above.

[TMR Design]

I did as some of you suggested and tried charging using the 'soft' charge to see if it was any different from the standard, which is a faster (but not rapid) charge.

When I removed the batteries they weren't quite as hot with the soft charge but they were still hot and not at all what I would call warm.

So based on that, I'm wondering if I should be looking into this further or contacting Maha? Powerex? I'm still getting plenty of juice on a full charge, lots of battery life and nothing to indicate that there's a problem but if there's something wrong or I might be damaging the batteries then I'd like to take care of the problem.

Any ideas?

[SlvrScoobie]

Well the lacrosse charged mine at 100 mah for about 8 hours overnight, and were cool during and after the charge. What V / A (if any readout for those is available) is your charger putting to the batt's, maybe its charging them to fast? Have you tried other batt manf?

[SYS]

I did as some of you suggested and tried charging using the 'soft' charge to see if it was any different from the standard, which is a faster (but not rapid) charge.

When I removed the batteries they weren't quite as hot with the soft charge but they were still hot and not at all what I would call warm.

So based on that, I'm wondering if I should be looking into this further or contacting Maha? Powerex? I'm still getting plenty of juice on a full charge, lots of battery life and nothing to indicate that there's a problem but if there's something wrong or I might be damaging the batteries then I'd like to take care of the problem.

Any ideas?

That's strange, Robert. My La Crosse charges the batteries cool during and afterwards. Have you tried -- just to eliminate the issues with the Maha charger itself -- any recently purchased and relatively new set of batteries at slow charge? If the same problem persists, then you should contact Maha and specifically mention the rate of your charge methods and see if the batteries becoming "hot" is something "normal" to be expected. Otherwise, change to La Crosse!

[anthony11]

WRT pointing a fan at the batteries to cool them, some have suggested that this might confound a charger's overheating protection.

[sapearl]

WRT pointing a fan at the batteries to cool them, some have suggested that this might confound a charger's overheating protection.

I'm not clear how that would be - I mean, heat dissipation is dissipation. If that is not happening then the chip in the charger (assuming it has one) will detect the overall heat buildup and respond accordingly.

[tdodd]

I have a LaCrosse charger. Default charging current is 200 mA, with options for 500 or 700. I nearly always charge at 200mA, unless I am in a real rush. At 200mA there is negligible temperature change. At 500mA the batteries are a little warm. At 700mA they really are quite warm - not hot, but a long way from remaining cool.

How much of that heat is generated by the charger, and how much within the batteries, I have no idea, but given how warm they become at 700mA I would not like to think about the heat at 1300mA or any figure anywhere close to that. I'll stick to charging at 200mA whenever I can. The thing is, if charging at 500 or 700 mA is a good thing, and in no way harmful, why even bother to provide a 200mA option at all? That would surely be quite daft.

[pcunite]

I have the Maha and haven't had any problems. It does get hot and the batteries come off the charger smoking hot but I checked with Thomas Distributing and was told that is normal.

Same here, batts are hot.

[edyakamenk]

I did as some of you suggested and tried charging using the 'soft' charge to see if it was any different from the standard, which is a faster (but not rapid) charge.

When I removed the batteries they weren't quite as hot with the soft charge but they were still hot and not at all what I would call warm.

So based on that, I'm wondering if I should be looking into this further or contacting Maha? Powerex? I'm still getting plenty of juice on a full charge, lots of battery life and nothing to indicate that there's a problem but if there's something wrong or I might be damaging the batteries then I'd like to take care of the problem.

Any ideas?
What is your room temperature during charging? Mine around 23-24C and I put my charger on open area in AC room so the heat can dissipate freely. Nothing generates heat near the charger. Maybe that's the problem. Too bad I don't have any tools to measure the temperature on the charger and batteries so I can't give exact numbers. As my definition of hot could be higher than yours. But still in my hand I felt warm not hot yet.:)

[danpass]

Great test, thanks.

My Energizer 2500 wouldn't take a charge after being in the box for a year while my old Eneloops (the ones I could find) did.

Glad to see the 2700 performed well and held a charge for longer than 4 days (aka my old Energizer 2500s lol)

[tim]

My Energizer 2500 wouldn't take a charge after being in the box for a year while my old Eneloops (the ones I could find) did.

The Maha C9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) may be able to recover the cells, with break in mode. Buying Eneloops (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/529431-REG/Sanyo_SECMQN06TG4_Eneloop_AA_Rechargeable_NiMH.htm l/BI/2312/KBID/3114) or Imedion (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=imedion%20aa&tag=headphonerevi-20&index=blended&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)cells is probably a better use of the money though.

[Johnny V]

Just had a couple AA Sony typ.2500mAh leak inside my mouse. They are only about 1 1/2 years old. Gonna trash the other two as I can't trust them.

[asianstutter]

i was wondering if i can charge the powerex batteries with my eneloop charger?

[danpass]

The Maha C9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) may be able to recover the cells, with break in mode. Buying Eneloops (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/529431-REG/Sanyo_SECMQN06TG4_Eneloop_AA_Rechargeable_NiMH.htm l/BI/2312/KBID/3114) or Imedion (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=imedion%20aa&tag=headphonerevi-20&index=blended&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)cells is probably a better use of the money though.
I had just gone ahead and thrown them out and picked up new Eneloops.

[tim]

i was wondering if i can charge the powerex batteries with my eneloop charger?

I know you can charge any NiMH cell with a Maha charger, so I suspect the answer is yes. However you might be better off getting a better, smarter charger which will treat your batteries nicely, rather than cramming in power as quickly as possible. Maha C9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) or the C800/C801 are great chargers.

I had just gone ahead and thrown them out and picked up new Eneloops.

I always wondered if you're meant to throw them in the rubbish or dispose of them properly. I suspect the latter. I just have a container of old batteries in my shed and i'll work it out in ten years when it's full :)

[Johnny V]

...
I always wondered if you're meant to throw them in the rubbish or dispose of them properly. I suspect the latter. I just have a container of old batteries in my shed and i'll work it out in ten years when it's full :)

Here in the USA I recently received a notice from our township that they have stopped recycling batteries as, they say, most recently manufactured batteries in the past few years are mercury free and can be disposed of in the regular garbage.

[asianstutter]

I know you can charge any NiMH cell with a Maha charger, so I suspect the answer is yes. However you might be better off getting a better, smarter charger which will treat your batteries nicely, rather than cramming in power as quickly as possible. Maha C9000 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) or the C800/C801 are great chargers.

NICE! i think i'm gonna have to get the Maha C9000

[danpass]

.......

I always wondered if you're meant to throw them in the rubbish or dispose of them properly. I suspect the latter. I just have a container of old batteries in my shed and i'll work it out in ten years when it's full :)
lol, my concept of going green is buying stuff I don't have to throw away (for a long while anyway)

[patrickeb]

Fantastic piece of work.

I have e-mailed the URL to everyone I know who would be interested.

I came to the site to check up on some camera flashes I was considering buying and after reading some interesting reviews and comments about flash devices also found your post.

Two birds with one (virtual) stone - flashes and the batteries to go with them :))

Brilliant!

Again, though it was some time ago that you posted, you should be very happy with the outcome and the responses you've received, as well as the help you've provided so many people...like me ;)