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View Full Version : The new Nikon D5000.


foxesamu
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 20:16
Official photos:

http://press.nikon.se/pressbilder/D-SLR/Q770/D5000_18_55_SLup_fr34l_l.jpg
http://press.nikon.se/pressbilder/D-SLR/Q770/D5000_LCD_3_l.jpg
http://press.nikon.se/pressbilder/D-SLR/Q770/D5000_18_55_top_l.jpg
http://press.nikon.se/pressbilder/D-SLR/Q770/D5000_LCD_1_l.jpg
http://press.nikon.se/pressbilder/D-SLR/Q770/D5000_back_1_l.jpg

I have to say I really like the looks, the buttons are much more in line with the bigger bodies. I'll post more when more comes in!

Edit: My God these are massive, sorry. I'll resize them later unless a mod wants to do it for me! :D I have no time right now.

Photon Phil
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 20:38
If this thing really comes out at $650 like Rockwell predicts it could be bad news for the Rebel T1i. Bad news.


(now flames)

DDCSD
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 21:34
Funny, Nikon uses a Phase One P25 back and PS 7 for their promo shots...

_aravena
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 21:35
I will say I like the idea of screen as I used my S3's often but still not that often. Never the less, will provide some competition being one of the two big contenders. I think people forget about the other cameras that can do this though...

Tee Why
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 21:54
dslr's are looking more like digicams everyday.
Soon, it'll just have one 20X mega giga zoom lens that you can't even replace.
Hope it takes nice movies...
:)

jcw122
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:04
Funny, Nikon uses a Phase One P25 back and PS 7 for their promo shots...

Hahahahah nice catch! That's pretty funny they left that in the EXIF. Goof balls :)

gjl711
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:23
Hmm.. Looks like Canon once again gets smoked. Nikon the first to introduce the swivel screen. Not a big feature, but something new in the SLR arena and Canon misses the boat.

I'm sure that canon engineers are feverishly working up a swivel screen of their own and the upcomming 60D will have it.

_aravena
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:29
It's not new...just new to Nikon and Canon.

foxesamu
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:37
It's not new...just new to Nikon and Canon.
Sure, but they're the two biggest brands so it's new to most buyers. It will attract yet more first-time SLR users to the big boys.

_aravena
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:39
Not really...the Olympus has been in stores for a LONG time and no doubt people have seen it.

foxesamu
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:42
Mmm I'm noticing nice little touches. Its scroll wheel is now tilted slightly downward just like the D3's, to be more natural for the thumb. None of the other bodies have had that except the D3, so it's nice to see it spreading.

The contour of the grip (at the top near the shutter button) is styled after the D300 and D700, which is quite lovely--more comfortable than the pointier grip of the D40.

Edit: aravena, I'm not really going to argue with you about this. Nobody is claiming that it's a brand new feature but this will most definitely cause Canon to include it on their next small body. In other words, it will become common, because of Nikon.

_aravena
13th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:56
*sigh* It is common. There is no argument. You have nothing therefore you realize such and bow out of...nothing. It's been around, it's nothing new. Look what this site has become reducing everything to Canon and Nikon. If Fuji had video no one would mention it and then with a Canon or Nikon having it, someone would stroll along and say, "Now they'll all have it!" despite the fact that maybe two companies already do.

No it won't cause Canon to do anything. Your sig does you justice though in standing up for Nikon but sorry, it seems Olympus and Sony caused Nikon to do something. It's ok, suck it up. When Canon does it, alright, w/e but once again, nothing new.

I can see it now when Canon or Nikon adds in body IS. "Man oh man! Now every camera will need this to match up with Canon/Nikon! :D"

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/shakehead.gif

::John::
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 00:16
I think you two have new reached an understanding as to whether it is a new feature or not, right? Cool. Let's move on.

I notice the absence of a Print button, too.

S7000
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 00:34
I notice the absence of a Print button, too.

I don't think I've ever used it. I certainly wouldn't miss it either.

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 00:53
Official press release can be found here. (http://nikonrumors.com/2009/04/13/nikon-d5000-the-press-release.aspx)

In short, body only is $729. With 18-55VR $850.

Points of interest:

-D90 sensor
-200-3200 ISO; 100 and 6400 extensions
-Up to 4fps--I've heard this is in MF mode
-11 AF points with 3D-tracking and one cross-point
-Dust shaker
-100K shutter rating (!)
-Quiet shooting mode (finally, they copied Canon with this great feature)
-Set up for GPS attachment
-2.7in 230,000P LCD
-No AF motor

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 00:58
I can see it now when Canon or Nikon adds in body IS. "Man oh man! Now every camera will need this to match up with Canon/Nikon! :D"
:rolleyes: Sure, that's exactly what is going to happen.

On a lighter note--I don't think either of them will add in-body IS in the foreseeable future. Not as long as they keep putting it into their lenses.

Tawcan
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 01:02
I don't understand the point of having a tilt/swivel LCD for DSLR. A DSLR with P&S type designs?

MLphoto
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 01:03
Oh damnnnn let the battles begin!!!!! T1i vs D5000!!!!

Nothing that special on the D5000 besides the price and flip out screen.

edit: looked over some D5000 reviews, T1i is almost better in everyway.

tkbslc
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 01:14
:rolleyes: Sure, that's exactly what is going to happen.

On a lighter note--I don't think either of them will add in-body IS in the foreseeable future. Not as long as they keep putting it into their lenses.

Especially since many third party lenses have it in lens now, too.

tkbslc
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 01:19
Official press release can be found here. (http://nikonrumors.com/2009/04/13/nikon-d5000-the-press-release.aspx)


-No AF motor



^^^
Only spec that matters to me, and the sole reason I am using a Rebel vs a D60 today.

Dmab
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 01:46
^^^
Only spec that matters to me, and the sole reason I am using a Rebel vs a D60 today.

+1
with the T1i you get full use of the glory that is the Canon lens lineup.

alt4852
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 02:19
I'm sure that canon engineers are feverishly working up a swivel screen of their own and the upcomming 60D will have it.

i highly doubt it. maybe the t1i's replacement will, but the xxd line is meant to be a prosumer dslr, and a swivel screen seems to orient it more for video and live view uses rather than a solid still capture-centric tool. for the same reason, i don't think swivel screens will bleed into nikon's dxxx line either.

Bubble
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 02:22
damn..so only 2 new products for April 14?

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 09:13
Oh damnnnn let the battles begin!!!!! T1i vs D5000!!!!

Nothing that special on the D5000 besides the price and flip out screen.

edit: looked over some D5000 reviews, T1i is almost better in everyway.
Care to elaborate? I could easily say the same thing--this has the D90/D300 sensor, which has more than proven itself against the 50D sensor. But the fact is, nothing can be said between the two right now. It's all just speculation.

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 09:18
I don't understand the point of having a tilt/swivel LCD for DSLR. A DSLR with P&S type designs?
Think about street and macro photography. You can take waist-level photos easily this way and be inconspicuous. Also, having the ability to flip the screen down will be invaluable for overhead shooting, whether it's photo or video.

MichaelBernard
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 09:35
If this thing really comes out at $650 like Rockwell predicts it could be bad news for the Rebel T1i. Bad news.


(now flames)

.............

That makes no sense. The T1i beats it handily in almost every aspect...there is that tilt screen though..http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/AudibleSilence/3si%20and%20GTOUK%20Hosting/Smilies/lmao.gif

Jared Byer
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 10:55
^^^
Only spec that matters to me, and the sole reason I am using a Rebel vs a D60 today.

Technically speaking none of the Canon EOS camers bodies have built in AF motors.

I imagine both cameras will do very well. It wouldn't suprise me though to see big box retailers pushing megapixels of the canon over the Nikon though.

Dmab
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 11:19
Nikoncamp is not very impressed as well with the D5000. They are excited about it's supposed HIGH ISO capability though. Something that would really benefit the D40-D60 users.

KenjiS
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 12:41
Think about street and macro photography. You can take waist-level photos easily this way and be inconspicuous. Also, having the ability to flip the screen down will be invaluable for overhead shooting, whether it's photo or video.

Except from what i can tell, it cant tilt up! only down...i dont see one picture of it tilted up, and the tilting mechanism seems to be unable to allow you to hold it at waist level with the screen tilted up..

Anyways, I like Sony's tilt screen and the Olympus one much more because they do allow you to have the camera below waist level

Anyways, BS on the "tilt screen isnt useful to a pro user"

Think of it this way, you're out doing macro photography with your camera low to the ground, Would live view on a tilt screen be a VERY useful feature? I could see myself using it quite a bit in those situations....

I see it as a replacement for anglefinders in many situations, and i would love to have one :)

But not at the cost of weathersealing..

tkbslc
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 12:53
Check this image:

http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0904/Nikon/LCD_1.jpg

I think it can do what you want, but in a slightly strange way.

KenjiS
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 13:07
Check this image:

http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0904/Nikon/LCD_1.jpg

I think it can do what you want, but in a slightly strange way.

Oh...oops

Eh...I'm not fond of it still....i think the sony design is more elegant...

Nortelbert
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 13:23
Oh damnnnn let the battles begin!!!!! T1i vs D5000!!!!



http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=677889&highlight=D5000

Ask and ye shall receive.

It doesn't appear to be too bad of a camera, I do like the swivel LCD... although a swing out to the side would have been more usable.

Tee Why
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:01
This Nikon is sooooooooooo better than that new Rebel. Canon is done for, they better close up shop and close their factories and call it quits.

It has a portrait mode AND a baby mode. I wonder where the Pet and birthday party modes are???

tkbslc
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:05
This Nikon is sooooooooooo better than that new Rebel. Canon is done for, they better close up shop and close their factories and call it quits.

It has a portrait mode AND a baby mode. I wonder where the Pet and birthday party modes are???

Funny you should mention that. There is a special mode on the dial name "SCENE" for all the scene modes they couldn't fit on the dial:

Vari-program: SCENE modes

Gives access to the other scene modes. Once this dial position is selected, the command dial allows you to select from the following styles:

• Night landscape
• Party/indoor
• Beach/snow
• Sunset
• Dusk/dawn
• Pet portrait
• Candlelight
• Blossom
• Autumn colors
• Food
• Silhouette
• High key
• Low key

Personally, I think that is awesome. Although sometimes I like to take Night landscapes with silhouettes of my pets just after Dusk in the Autumn, so I wonder if there is a scene stacking mode.

Tee Why
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:30
Yup, game over definitely for Canon.
It even has a food mode. It even has two keys so you don't lock yourself out of the car. How cool is that?

tkbslc
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:35
Yeah, I think the scene modes are getting out of hand. My wife can't be bothered to learn manual controls, but she also can't be bothered to change scene modes, either. Same with my Mom, MIL and SIL. So I wonder if anyone actually uses the scene modes. It seems like if you care enough to think about changing setting for best results, you probably learn to use P, Av and Tv modes. And if you just want to point and shoot, you use auto.

Anyway, I really think the Nikon will be a great camera, But I would still pick the 500D or more likely the 40D over it.

brianch
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:41
One thing that has been driving me nuts is how all of these companies are choosing to use existing sensors... Nikon has now used the same sensor in three cameras = D300 D90 D5000.. Canon has done the same with the 40D XTi and Xs. 5DII 1Ds Mark III = same sensor. D3X A900 = same sensor (kind of). Now the 50Ds sensor is being carried on to the T1i. I understand that they are doing this to reduce manufacturing costs and R&D costs but if you are going to do that at least improve the camera in other areas other then features. I would like to see manufacturers step up and improve things like autofocus systems, metering systems, viewfinders, build and weather sealing. I am not a fan of all of these movie modes, whatever modes, screens that do backflips.. I just want a reliable camera... Adding all of these features just makes these cameras less reliable.

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:42
Nikoncamp is not very impressed as well with the D5000. They are excited about it's supposed HIGH ISO capability though. Something that would really benefit the D40-D60 users.
Not really... the D40 with its mere 6MP sensor had excellent high ISO performance for its time, perhaps the best of the Nikon lineup when it came out in 2006. I go up to 1600 no problem.

D60 is a major improvement over the D80 but still not up there with the D40. From what I've seen of the D5K, though, 6400 is usable!

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:45
Oh...oops

Eh...I'm not fond of it still....i think the sony design is more elegant...
I totally disagree, I love the way this looks compared to the Oly/Sony screens. It's practical for different situations but the way that they maintained good screen size and the hinge isn't very clunky (nor does it impede on button space) makes me think it's the best solution. Sideways articulation is good for selfie shots and tripods but for everything else this kind might be better. Not to mention... I think you can just leave the screen on the camera when you're shooting with a tripod :)

The scene modes are pretty silly but I don't use them (I did when I was starting out). It still has PASM and I think that's all that matters!

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 14:49
One thing that has been driving me nuts is how all of these companies are choosing to use existing sensors... Nikon has now used the same sensor in three cameras = D300 D90 D5000..
Hm not exactly. With each new camera Nikon doesn't hold back. They may appear to have the same sensor but the D90 is a bit improved over the D300 as the D5000 will be a bit improved over the D90. Each one has a little less noise.

Anyway, as for your comments about other features, I think the D5000 is a notable improvement in that way too. Not just about video and the screen, but it has a much improved AF system and can now bracket. The D40 and D60 couldn't. There is one downside--the VF is slightly smaller than that of the D60. I don't think it will be noticeable though.

KenjiS
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 15:29
I totally disagree, I love the way this looks compared to the Oly/Sony screens. It's practical for different situations but the way that they maintained good screen size and the hinge isn't very clunky (nor does it impede on button space) makes me think it's the best solution. Sideways articulation is good for selfie shots and tripods but for everything else this kind might be better. Not to mention... I think you can just leave the screen on the camera when you're shooting with a tripod :)

The scene modes are pretty silly but I don't use them (I did when I was starting out). It still has PASM and I think that's all that matters!

Eh, personal preference as you said then

Its really not a make or break feature to me, its something id love to have, but even having a nice big clear LCD with live view would make me happy right now [Actually my wish list right now is: Better high ISO performance, higher burst capacity/faster fps, bigger brighter rear screen, live view, improved AF, support for newer quicker memory cards, improved weather sealing, and a better viewfinder, and more intelligent batteries]

Keep in mind, i have a 30D, the screens on most of these entry level cameras blow it away...Heck the features on the new Rebel T1i come close to pretty much obliterating my camera in most respects :(

That said I'm sticking with the xxD line, and going with a 60D as soon as it comes out...probubly with a kit lens (And then I'm going to gift my 30D/Battery grip/kit lens from the 60D if its not interesting to me to my Dad or my girlfriend, since she shoots Nikon at the moment and I'd rather my lenses fit her mount...)

brianch
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 15:54
Hm not exactly. With each new camera Nikon doesn't hold back. They may appear to have the same sensor but the D90 is a bit improved over the D300 as the D5000 will be a bit improved over the D90. Each one has a little less noise.

Anyway, as for your comments about other features, I think the D5000 is a notable improvement in that way too. Not just about video and the screen, but it has a much improved AF system and can now bracket. The D40 and D60 couldn't. There is one downside--the VF is slightly smaller than that of the D60. I don't think it will be noticeable though.

I would rather have a newly designed sensor then video mode or an articulated screen. I would rather have better ergonomics, design, build, weather sealing, AF, or metering system, over any of those. If the AF on the D5000 is the same as the D90 then I don't think it is that great. I bought a D90 to try out for 30 days and wasn't pleased with the AF speed at all. It may have 11 points but the outer points are quite slow. If you ever have a D90 to compare to a 40D/50D at the same time, you will realize the same as well. If manufacturers are not going to emphasize sensor development in future models I think they should focus on other important aspects of photography. It seems as though manufacturers are competing to add more point and shoot features to future models rather then competing to create better photographic tools for photographers.

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 17:10
I would rather have a newly designed sensor then video mode or an articulated screen. I would rather have better ergonomics, design, build, weather sealing, AF, or metering system, over any of those.
I don't think you can expect most of those things on a $700 entry-level DSLR. Everyone would rather have that but for everything you listed there are the D300 and D700, and their Canon equivalents. Anyway nobody knows anything about the metering but I don't think there was much wrong with the D40/D60's metering system in the first place. The most recent and hopefully last Nikon to have screwy metering was the D80.

Also it does appear to have superior ergonomics... the button placement is more like those of the bigger bodies which is a good thing. However I've come to the conclusion that Canon's big wheel/joystick solution is better.

If the AF on the D5000 is the same as the D90 then I don't think it is that great. I bought a D90 to try out for 30 days and wasn't pleased with the AF speed at all. It may have 11 points but the outer points are quite slow. If you ever have a D90 to compare to a 40D/50D at the same time, you will realize the same as well. If manufacturers are not going to emphasize sensor development in future models I think they should focus on other important aspects of photography. It seems as though manufacturers are competing to add more point and shoot features to future models rather then competing to create better photographic tools for photographers.
I don't think the D90's AF is all that great--it's not even close to an xxD (which is roughly equal to the D300), that I know--but it's definitely a huge step up from my D40 which barely works in low light. The left and right points are absolutely useless half the time so I have just gotten used to the focus-and-recompose method.

KenjiS
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 17:50
I don't think the D90's AF is all that great--it's not even close to an xxD (which is roughly equal to the D300), that I know--but it's definitely a huge step up from my D40 which barely works in low light. The left and right points are absolutely useless half the time so I have just gotten used to the focus-and-recompose method.

Agreed, I tried a D90 heavily in a store and almost bought one, Glad I didnt, my 30D is better than it with a good lens attached...at least for center point AF (For the record i tried it with its kit lens, the 18-105 i believe it is VR Nikkor, which is an AF-S lens, but its not as fast focusing as the 28-135 on a 50D, Canon is still master of the USM imho)

Also note I had a D70, the AF on that thing made me switch to Canon pretty much...

The problem with Nikon AF is that most of their decently-fast focusing lenses are fairly expensive, Canon has several $500-ish lenses that are lightning quick to focus...Nikon....not so much given most of their $500-ish selection are body-driven AF

CyberDyneSystems
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 18:17
I don't understand the point of having a tilt/swivel LCD for DSLR. A DSLR with P&S type designs?

It's extremely advantageous to macro shooters among other applications.
There are (JUST FOR slrs) right angle viewing attachments for the optical viewfinder that have been around since the film days.
In the film days, with no screen, it was the only way to get an angle viewer.
Now that we have been shooting our SLRs digital, with lovely LCD screens,. for many years, it's the obvious next step. It goes hand in hand with live view.

We could argue we have no need for these things, some of us may not, but MANY of us do desire these features. And more to the point, they are a continuous and obvious evolution of the tools we are using from the legacy and limiting Film era, towards the more flexible Digital.

Is there any reason to add these features? Not a pertinent question, more is there any reason NOT to IMHO.

DDCSD
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 18:23
I thought the way the screen fold out looked like a terrible application at first, but after more thought I think it is brilliant. Do you really want to have to flip the screen out to the side to view it from above or below? The only thing that it wouldn't be better for is myspace self-shots. It allows you to use it without making your camera an extra 3 inches wide.

I really like that aspect.

Those scene modes are freaking hilarious!

Tawcan
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 18:57
That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation (foxesamu too).

To me the new LCD is more like a gimmick, there's nothing really revolutionary on the D5000. Like someone pointed out already, it seems that both Canon and Nikon are just adding small features with the recent releases instead of trying to take a big step forward and come out with something very technologically advanced that will put the company far ahead of everyone else...

It's extremely advantageous to macro shooters among other applications.
There are (JUST FOR slrs) right angle viewing attachments for the optical viewfinder that have been around since the film days.
In the film days, with no screen, it was the only way to get an angle viewer.
Now that we have been shooting our SLRs digital, with lovely LCD screens,. for many years, it's the obvious next step. It goes hand in hand with live view.

We could argue we have no need for these things, some of us may not, but MANY of us do desire these features. And more to the point, they are a continuous and obvious evolution of the tools we are using from the legacy and limiting Film era, towards the more flexible Digital.

Is there any reason to add these features? Not a pertinent question, more is there any reason NOT to IMHO.

brianch
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 18:59
I don't think you can expect most of those things on a $700 entry-level DSLR. Everyone would rather have that but for everything you listed there are the D300 and D700, and their Canon equivalents. Anyway nobody knows anything about the metering but I don't think there was much wrong with the D40/D60's metering system in the first place. The most recent and hopefully last Nikon to have screwy metering was the D80.

Also it does appear to have superior ergonomics... the button placement is more like those of the bigger bodies which is a good thing. However I've come to the conclusion that Canon's big wheel/joystick solution is better.


I don't think the D90's AF is all that great--it's not even close to an xxD (which is roughly equal to the D300), that I know--but it's definitely a huge step up from my D40 which barely works in low light. The left and right points are absolutely useless half the time so I have just gotten used to the focus-and-recompose method.

I have no doubt that the D5000 is a fabulous upgrade over the D40 and D60. I am not too concerned with what Nikon is doing but more concerned with what Canon is doing. On the 50D, 5D Mark II, and T1i. The only thing noteworthy that Canon has done is increase the resolution and add a bunch of doohicky features. I would like Canon to improve the AF system, Metering system, and general build of those models rather then increase the resolution. I think if Nikon chose to add weather sealing to the D5000 rather then an articulated screen, it would have gained a much larger leap over Canon then it already has. One of the rather bothersome problems on the Rebel series cameras is their lack of complete weathersealing. Everyones ideal camera is different. For me, and articulated screen and movie mode arent necessary.

davidfig
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 19:14
Sucky M-JPEG movies and now AF motor. Forget those AIS lenses.

foxesamu
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 21:23
Everyones ideal camera is different. For me, and articulated screen and movie mode arent necessary.
Me neither. But a weather-sealed entry-level camera would be much heavier and much more expensive than the simple movie mode/articulating screen additions. Pentax has a weather-sealed entry-level camera and look how they're doing. Basically, people just starting out don't really care about that stuff--or at least that's my impression. I did very little research and bought my D40 out of blind faith; now I'm a much smarter buyer (when it comes to EVERYTHING!) but it was still a good decision. However I could've easily ended up with an Olympus E-410 which would've been... not so good. ;) I think most people are like that. They just pick the brand that they like the most.

DDCSD
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 21:58
Me neither. But a weather-sealed entry-level camera would be much heavier and much more expensive than the simple movie mode/articulating screen additions. Pentax has a weather-sealed entry-level camera and look how they're doing. Basically, people just starting out don't really care about that stuff--or at least that's my impression. I did very little research and bought my D40 out of blind faith; now I'm a much smarter buyer (when it comes to EVERYTHING!) but it was still a good decision. However I could've easily ended up with an Olympus E-410 which would've been... not so good. ;) I think most people are like that. They just pick the brand that they like the most.


Yeah, I honestly don't think that the people that the entry level cameras are marketed to have any idea what weather-sealing is and likely wouldn't take the camera outside when its raining anyways.

randomlinh
14th of April 2009 (Tue), 22:02
To me the new LCD is more like a gimmick
I disagree on this. With video no doubt becoming added, it works soo much better and less awkward.

but on the same token, I don't know if i'd actually *want* it. As much as I'd love to do video with my small crew of canon lenses, I don't want the swivel LCD to add costs. Not to mention add possible breakage.

If those things are address, I'm game for it. There are plenty it's fun times to get the odd angles you can't get w/o a swivel lcd.

tkbslc
15th of April 2009 (Wed), 01:09
D60 is a major improvement over the D80 but still not up there with the D40. From what I've seen of the D5K, though, 6400 is usable!

The low light ISO 1600 sample from dpreview showed lots of noise reduction smearing, so if ISO 6400 is usable, it likely won't be remotely sharp.

Grumbledook
15th of April 2009 (Wed), 14:01
huh my canon powershot g3 has an articulated screen

its well old tech, I was always surprised when they removed it from the gx line, obv the g10 is the lastest and it doesn't have one

go figure

Jannie
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 14:47
The race is still on, Canon came out with it's new entry level DSLR and now Nikon's got the D5000 with a flip down screen, movie mode, OMGosh the digital still gear changes fast.

tummelvalley
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 14:51
I thought the D40 was Nikon's entry level DSLR? :confused:

ef2
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 14:52
I think the D5000 has less MP's though. That's no way to compete.

Vulcan58
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 14:53
For entry level it's a lot of money, the same as Canons - I think too many features to be classed as "entry level".

They ought to have introduced the 5D mkII as entry level & at under £1k - just think how many they would have sold AND still made profit on.:lol::lol::lol:

powerslave
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 15:48
Apart from the full frame and the fps, the 500D pretty much is the 5D II.



/ducks.

tkbslc
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 16:18
Apart from the full frame and the fps, the 500D pretty much is the 5D II.



/ducks.

Isn't that like saying that apart from the big V10 engine, the dodge neon is pretty much a dodge viper?

KenjiS
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 16:19
Isn't that like saying that apart from the big V10 engine, the dodge neon is pretty much a dodge viper?

I'd say its closer to saying "Besides the flat six and the turbos, a 911 Turbo is the same as a Volkswagen Beetle.."

brianch
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 17:41
well the 5D is built better then the 500D as well. its also a different form factor. why does no one care about build quality and form factor anymore? I would think that increasing the build quality on these enthusiast level cameras would be a good thing. I guess backflip screens and cameras that do your laundry are more popular.

powerslave
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 18:03
Do /ducks have no values these days?

randomlinh
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 20:01
I think the D5000 has less MP's though. That's no way to compete.
i can't tell if this is sarcasm or not... if it isn't... *facepalm*

KenjiS
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 20:05
well the 5D is built better then the 500D as well. its also a different form factor. why does no one care about build quality and form factor anymore? I would think that increasing the build quality on these enthusiast level cameras would be a good thing. I guess backflip screens and cameras that do your laundry are more popular.

Simply put because cameras in this price range are considered expendible and disposable

Like TVs, Radios, Stereos, Speakers, and nearly EVERYTHING now they're expected to be replaced in 4-5 years usually

And Canon/Nikon want you to replace them before that, and to most consumers that means its gimmick time..

dima1109
16th of April 2009 (Thu), 21:18
Simply put because cameras in this price range are considered expendible and disposable

Like TVs, Radios, Stereos, Speakers, and nearly EVERYTHING now they're expected to be replaced in 4-5 years usually

And Canon/Nikon want you to replace them before that, and to most consumers that means its gimmick time..

Everyone here tends to look at consumer-grade DSLRs as disposable point-and-shoots with interchangeable lenses. It may be the perception in the professional and so-called advanced amateur circles, but it is simply not true for the general population. For 95% of people out there, a Rebel XS is like a 5D2 or 1D3 for POTNers. Many people want a decent camera to take pictures of kids, family events, friends, etc, and they can benefit greatly from the video mode, swivel screens, face detection, and other "gimmicks". Most will be best suited with a superzoom, but some go with DSLRs because of their film past, desire to look cool, or what have you. They want a camera that satisfies their needs the best, and for many people, it seems just plain silly that an $800 camera can't do what a stinky $150 point-and-shoot can do (face detection, video mode, until a couple years ago - live view, etc). Features are never a bad thing, they move the market forward. And if Canon released an entry-level camera to make money in tough economy instead of updating a niche L lens of your liking, you can hardly blame them for going where the money is.

Also, one of these days, someone needs to release a camera with multi-layer carbon fiber body, titanium frame, and lambskin handgrip, with optional weights so a picky user can adjust how "solid" it feels. Seriously though, to all that complain about build quality of Rebels: do you actually have any concrete complaints, besides the "plasticky" and "feels like a toy"?

KenjiS
18th of April 2009 (Sat), 20:04
Everyone here tends to look at consumer-grade DSLRs as disposable point-and-shoots with interchangeable lenses. It may be the perception in the professional and so-called advanced amateur circles, but it is simply not true for the general population. For 95% of people out there, a Rebel XS is like a 5D2 or 1D3 for POTNers. Many people want a decent camera to take pictures of kids, family events, friends, etc, and they can benefit greatly from the video mode, swivel screens, face detection, and other "gimmicks". Most will be best suited with a superzoom, but some go with DSLRs because of their film past, desire to look cool, or what have you. They want a camera that satisfies their needs the best, and for many people, it seems just plain silly that an $800 camera can't do what a stinky $150 point-and-shoot can do (face detection, video mode, until a couple years ago - live view, etc). Features are never a bad thing, they move the market forward. And if Canon released an entry-level camera to make money in tough economy instead of updating a niche L lens of your liking, you can hardly blame them for going where the money is.

Also, one of these days, someone needs to release a camera with multi-layer carbon fiber body, titanium frame, and lambskin handgrip, with optional weights so a picky user can adjust how "solid" it feels. Seriously though, to all that complain about build quality of Rebels: do you actually have any concrete complaints, besides the "plasticky" and "feels like a toy"?

No but then again its also a market highly dominated by price vs features

Many users in this segment dont give a toss if it has Nikon, Canon or Sony slapped on it, what lenses it uses, what the flash system is like or anything else, these users care about price and the features on the body itself, they care about gimmicks and scene modes..

If anything I'd wager Sony's name carries the most weight to MOST consumers because of their TVs, Brand association works...someone whos had a good experience with a Sony TV or a CD player will likely buy a Sony camera because by extension, they should have a good experience with it..

The fact is that they ARE built down to a price, to keep the $500-800 pricetag and still be an upgrade over the last model and still look "better" in an uneducated consumer's eyes they have to sacrifice something, and in this case, its build quality

As for the Rebel, it doesnt feel right in my hand to be honest, and its lacking the second dial that I use constantly, I really was thinking about a T1i but I realized that I personally would miss that second dial a lot, I use it a LOT of the time to dial exposure compensation in Av mode or to control the aperture in full manual...

They're built pretty well for the price in my opinion, and I still recommend them to people because they really arent toys to me..they ARE a good piece of equipment

I'm far from an elitist, For most consumers, they'd say my 30D is an outdated piece of junk because their point and shoot has more megapixels than it does...But I'd like to see their point and shoot produce the same images my 30D does..

foxesamu
19th of April 2009 (Sun), 20:03
If anything I'd wager Sony's name carries the most weight to MOST consumers because of their TVs, Brand association works...someone whos had a good experience with a Sony TV or a CD player will likely buy a Sony camera because by extension, they should have a good experience with it..
Mmm, most noobs I've seen always consider Canon and Nikon first. In that order--Canon is a much bigger brand than Nikon and their P&S cameras dominate so they know that quality comes with the name. Nikon's P&S cameras are mediocre but the people who design the DSLRs/lenses are obviously a different company entirely so that can be forgiven.

I agree with you in terms of being an 'elitist.' Most people are shocked by the fact that my camera has 6MP and it produces images that are so much sharper than those coming from their 10MP P&S. The megapixel race has really destroyed peoples' understanding of photography. Most people I meet literally think that more MP = better pictures.

DDCSD
20th of April 2009 (Mon), 18:46
i can't tell if this is sarcasm or not... if it isn't... *facepalm*

Its true for the entry-level market.

KenjiS
20th of April 2009 (Mon), 20:09
I agree with you in terms of being an 'elitist.' Most people are shocked by the fact that my camera has 6MP and it produces images that are so much sharper than those coming from their 10MP P&S. The megapixel race has really destroyed peoples' understanding of photography. Most people I meet literally think that more MP = better pictures.

Because when the digital thing started to take off every magazine concentrated so much on it that now thats all EVERYONE pays attention to...

And I'm guessing a D40?

foxesamu
20th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:42
Because when the digital thing started to take off every magazine concentrated so much on it that now thats all EVERYONE pays attention to...

And I'm guessing a D40?
Yes, it's my baby. Amazing what it can do with a good lens attached. But next year I'll add to my arsenal. Whether that's with another Nikon or a Canon, I'm not sure yet.

KenjiS
21st of April 2009 (Tue), 17:18
Yes, it's my baby. Amazing what it can do with a good lens attached. But next year I'll add to my arsenal. Whether that's with another Nikon or a Canon, I'm not sure yet.

I like the D40 actually, if only for its simplicity...

foxesamu
23rd of April 2009 (Thu), 00:57
^Ooh, that sounds harsh, doesn't it?

No, it is not a pro-built camera, with no pro-AF, no fast FPS and not even super-high ISO. But it does everything right, and it does it all in a super light and super small package. I already have about 23K actuations on it (got it ~13 months ago), and I'm just going to keep running it until it dies. By then I'll probably have another camera and I'll just get another D40 (or D90 maybe).

Kadath
24th of April 2009 (Fri), 22:23
I got a D5000 today, then I didn't, then I did again =)

Best Buy got their initial shipment near me this afternoon, I picked one up so I could have a backup to my D300 that I could leave in the car without feeling completely paranoid about losing $3k+ if I got broken into, but when I got it home and unboxed, er.... the box was empty. Called Best Buy back completely furious, it turns out they had unloaded mine as the floor model, so I ran back and got another copy. Unboxing pics and a few test shots will follow....

Edit: Unboxing shots now up here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/sets/72157617186639099/

foxesamu
25th of April 2009 (Sat), 00:50
^Sweet. Please, let me know how it is (via PM if you like). How is the viewfinder, the high ISO performance, the SCREEN? I'm thinking that when my D40 dies I'll pick up a D90 (I just love having a lighter DSLR) but the D5K is also appealing.

The 18-200 looks great on it. My dad has one so I use it often, and it really doesn't balance very well, as you could imagine. One thing I have to say is that the grip looks significantly deeper than that of the D40/D60.

KenjiS
25th of April 2009 (Sat), 02:15
^Ooh, that sounds harsh, doesn't it?

No, it is not a pro-built camera, with no pro-AF, no fast FPS and not even super-high ISO. But it does everything right, and it does it all in a super light and super small package. I already have about 23K actuations on it (got it ~13 months ago), and I'm just going to keep running it until it dies. By then I'll probably have another camera and I'll just get another D40 (or D90 maybe).

I didnt mean that to sound offensive, I LIKE simplicity sometimes and I'd rather have a D40 or D5000 than most of the Rebels to be honest, I've seen some really amazing shots done with a D40, that little thing is pretty magic

And no, I'm not hating on the Rebels, I personally like the design of the cheaper Nikons more than the design of the cheaper Canon's, but I'd have a 50D over a D90 anyday...

I'm weird I guess..

Kadath
25th of April 2009 (Sat), 18:27
I agree completely. I will use something like this asa backup but it can't compare to my D300 in usability and heft =)

Just a sidenote, but my set has been picked up by a lot of tech sites like nikonrumors after i posted links there and at engadget forums.

Yesterday I had 241 views and 200k lifetime views on Flickr. Today alone I have gotten over 40k views and might hit 50k! Humbling, just wish folks would see my 'real' stuff in those numbers!

Kadath
25th of April 2009 (Sat), 23:52
I put 7 unedited full size jpgs straight-outta-camera at the tail end of the set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/sets/72157617186639099/

foxesamu
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 00:12
I didnt mean that to sound offensive, I LIKE simplicity sometimes and I'd rather have a D40 or D5000 than most of the Rebels to be honest, I've seen some really amazing shots done with a D40, that little thing is pretty magic

And no, I'm not hating on the Rebels, I personally like the design of the cheaper Nikons more than the design of the cheaper Canon's, but I'd have a 50D over a D90 anyday...

I'm weird I guess..
I'd have a 50D over D90 any day too. It's different. The D90, while a superb performer (one of the best bangs for the buck on the market), is still a consumer DSLR. The 50D's feel alone would win me over. The AF, extra MP and speed would just be icing on the cake. Ironically the D90 probably edges ahead at higher ISOs but I think the difference is pretty negligible.

delhi
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 01:00
Fantastic.... finally one of the big players have clue in that LiveView without a useable swivel LCD screen is like going on a date with a hot model only to have her mom to tag along.
I'm not waiting for Canon to add this swivel LCD for 2-years now since Liveview showed up in the 40D. Hopefully the 60d will have it and I will then truly upgrade.

kidfiji
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 04:09
Fantastic.... finally one of the big players have clue in that LiveView without a useable swivel LCD screen is like going on a date with a hot model only to have her mom to tag along.
I'm not waiting for Canon to add this swivel LCD for 2-years now since Liveview showed up in the 40D. Hopefully the 60d will have it and I will then truly upgrade.

what if her mom was smoking hot too? hahah.
i'm pretty sure canon will have something up their sleeve.

Kadath
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 14:36
And Canon's swivel is on the side on their digicams, I like that a lot better!

My shots just hit the front page of Engadget too, rawr! =)

foxesamu
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 17:54
^The side-flip screens are way more functional for tripods but the bottom mount keeps the camera looking sleek and allows for buttons to be on the left side of the screen. It makes sense in a way.

cccc
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 18:15
this swivel screen is frustrating.
If I really need to put my camera above my head for some reason, I'll get on a chair instead.

If it needs to be lower, I'll take a knee.

The d5000 is a testament to how lazy people are getting.
We may as well equip sportscars with autopilot so we don't have to worry about driving them.

DDCSD
26th of April 2009 (Sun), 19:09
this swivel screen is frustrating.
If I really need to put my camera above my head for some reason, I'll get on a chair instead.

If it needs to be lower, I'll take a knee.

The d5000 is a testament to how lazy people are getting.
We may as well equip sportscars with autopilot so we don't have to worry about driving them.


Sometimes you can't get on a chair, or getting on a chair still isn't enough. And what if you don't have a chair? I would love to have a screen like that for shooting concerts.

Kadath
27th of April 2009 (Mon), 16:54
gonna be perfect for me shooting fireworks too.

KenjiS
27th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:41
Sometimes you can't get on a chair, or getting on a chair still isn't enough. And what if you don't have a chair? I would love to have a screen like that for shooting concerts.

Additionally, Some people have bad knees and cant get down on a knee too easily

Sometimes its not laziness :/

Kadath
27th of April 2009 (Mon), 22:53
Put up a video of the camera shooting an Osprey and chick. I could only get the ‘82 Manual Focus Vivitar 400mm lens on the RRS head with this camera so it through off the metering. Will have to figure something else out.

Vimeo version is here:
http://www.vimeo.com/4367111

The vimeo version looks very washed out to me. So… Original file is here:
http://navesink.net/public_html/raw/OspreyAndChick.mov

Edit: Duh, I meant nesting mate not Chick, sigh....

condyk
30th of April 2009 (Thu), 01:17
Video of the D5000 and D90 giving a compare and contrast - mainly feel and functions: click (http://www.mikekobal.com/blog/) Currently it's the top item on his blog.

KenjiS
30th of April 2009 (Thu), 18:54
Engadget is doing the D5000 vs the T1i...So far they seem to be favoring the T1i.....

Kadath
1st of May 2009 (Fri), 10:35
Put up a High ISO set shot in near darkness:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/sets/72157617554774800/

KenjiS
1st of May 2009 (Fri), 23:19
Put up a High ISO set shot in near darkness:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/sets/72157617554774800/

They look pretty good to be honest!

Kadath
4th of May 2009 (Mon), 16:31
The prints look awesome at 8x12...

AngryCorgi
6th of May 2009 (Wed), 14:59
I notice the absence of a Print button, too.

Rendering it absolutely worthless, no doubt!

;)

drisley
8th of May 2009 (Fri), 14:28
Hmm.. Looks like Canon once again gets smoked. Nikon the first to introduce the swivel screen. Not a big feature, but something new in the SLR arena and Canon misses the boat.

I'm sure that canon engineers are feverishly working up a swivel screen of their own and the upcomming 60D will have it.
http://gizmodo.com/5233048/nikon-d5000-vs-canon-t1i-place-your-bets

drisley
8th of May 2009 (Fri), 14:30
Engadget is doing the D5000 vs the T1i...So far they seem to be favoring the T1i.....
http://gizmodo.com/5233048/nikon-d5000-vs-canon-t1i-place-your-bets

clickclickclick
22nd of May 2009 (Fri), 14:53
Not digging it

condyk
22nd of May 2009 (Fri), 16:25
Gizmodo is the place to get expert opinion on anything ... that might sell more adverts and click-throughs :lol::lol:

foxesamu
28th of May 2009 (Thu), 21:53
Flame suit on:

Ken Rockwell posted a comparison of the D3, D300, D5000 and D40 at all ISOs. I think it's extremely informative and the difference between the D300 and D5000 is a little shocking; contrary to what many Canonites think Nikon is constantly refining the DX sensors. Every new model is one step further--the D5000 seems to keep up with the D3 (in terms of detail, not noise level) up till 1600 ISO. Maybe it's just my untrained eye saying that but it looks pretty damn great.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d5000/high-iso-comparison.htm

Bob_A
28th of May 2009 (Thu), 22:18
Ken Rockwell

Ohhhhhh nooooo, not him ... please reference anyone but him .....

Most Nikon shooters even know this guy is full of ... ummm ... hot air perhaps?

foxesamu
1st of June 2009 (Mon), 00:59
That's why I said "flame suit on..." I'm not a fan but I like the comparison he did here.